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1797 Half Cent Odd.
planonit
Posts: 525 ✭✭
Long story short(er):
I have a connection who has become a friend over half a decade who inherited a sizable collection. He is nearly 2000 miles away from me in Upstate Oregon so I don't see him that often nor the collection which is stored in different family safes.
He has had some great coins and even though he is still a novice years of going through his Grandfather's collection has rubbed off on him and he is a member of PCGS and submits some coins every now and then.
So every know and then he will get bored and go through the collection and he often will tell me about stuff he finds. He came across a small safe in the collection. Luckily the key was taped in a bag on the safe (Great security) and he opened it up. There were only a handful of coins. A 1884-CC Morgan that is going to be a nice DMPL I think, a G4 or so 1793 Wreath, an AU/BU pretty toned 1955 DDO and THIS coin.
I can't figure out what it is. My gut was a possible early electrotype but it does not quite look right. I thought maybe it was some higher quality private minted replica but I have never seen one like this. I got bored and just started combing through Google Image searches of "1797 Half Cent" or "1797 1/2 Cent Reproduction" but nothing so far. It is just an odd coin that is really out of place.
It is just a tad annoying so if anybody has any idea it would be just really cool to know.
I have a connection who has become a friend over half a decade who inherited a sizable collection. He is nearly 2000 miles away from me in Upstate Oregon so I don't see him that often nor the collection which is stored in different family safes.
He has had some great coins and even though he is still a novice years of going through his Grandfather's collection has rubbed off on him and he is a member of PCGS and submits some coins every now and then.
So every know and then he will get bored and go through the collection and he often will tell me about stuff he finds. He came across a small safe in the collection. Luckily the key was taped in a bag on the safe (Great security) and he opened it up. There were only a handful of coins. A 1884-CC Morgan that is going to be a nice DMPL I think, a G4 or so 1793 Wreath, an AU/BU pretty toned 1955 DDO and THIS coin.
I can't figure out what it is. My gut was a possible early electrotype but it does not quite look right. I thought maybe it was some higher quality private minted replica but I have never seen one like this. I got bored and just started combing through Google Image searches of "1797 Half Cent" or "1797 1/2 Cent Reproduction" but nothing so far. It is just an odd coin that is really out of place.
It is just a tad annoying so if anybody has any idea it would be just really cool to know.
I have plans....sometimes
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With that said, from the photo there is no real way to tell however, It is a very high grade example.
Someone else who is an expert in half cents Im sure will chime in but something doesn't seem right to me
I'd check it against Chinese fakes on AliExpress -- some of them are pretty convincing.
It very well might be a counterfeit but this was inherited like 10 years ago and I think he stopped collecting in like the mid 90s but you are right AliExpress has sort of upped their game. They used to be filled with nothing but those laughable crooked nose 1804 Dollars but they have some quality stuff.
As others have noted this does not match any known 1797. If this were a genuine 1797 it would be an incredibly valuable coin and probably the EAC find of the last 100 years so it must not be "genuine" but I am trying to find out what it is because it does not seem like any modern counterfeit I have seen and obviously it was in someway special to the collector to put in a separate safe.
I still lean electrotype because honestly I can't think of anything else it could be. That also matches why he would have it and have with a few other higher caliber coins; if it was some junky counterfeit he'd not of kept it around but if it was a nice electrotype that would make more sense.
What is strange is why make an electrotype of a totally fabricated die? It is not like this is RADICALLY different from all known 1797 1/2 Cent varieties but it is pretty darn different.
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The coin has the appearance of an "Edwards Copy", or some
derivation of it. If it were to be that they were made from
privately engraved dies sometime around the 1860's and
sold, or auctioned off, but were counterfeits. The rev. uses a
wreath design closer to pre-1795 rather than 1797.
The images you provided are quite bad and hard to make out.
It would be nice if you could provide well lit, close ups with no
glare to inspect, including both obv. & rev. & edge views without
any coverings.
Further if you could weigh the piece to get an exact weight in
grains, or grams.
I am not saying it is what I've described, however, if it were it
is a very valuable piece. But I'm not saying it is!
Did I mention I'm not saying it is??
It could be a modern piece that was shown at auction, or made
as samples similar to the piece offered at the sale of the Dan Holmes
Collection.
R.I.P. Bear
We need better photos and a photo or description of the edge for the coin in question.
I'm thinking an electro of a gallery mint obverse and maybe a different gallery mint year of the reverse mated together (both without the "copy" stamp).
Just a guess.
look like?
R.I.P. Bear
uses a similar LIBERTY. Good find Dave.
R.I.P. Bear
peacockcoins
He had a fairly extensive Peace and Morgan VAM set. The problem? He labelled none of it. It only was by accident another collector saw the collection and realized that a certain section of Morgans in separated from the rest were VAMs.
I'd check it against Chinese fakes on AliExpress -- some of them are pretty convincing.
To test my heirs, I'm tempted to get this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item...4f8a-9f06-9f49cfca392b
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from your description of the collection, this piece should have some significance if retained.
Cheers, RickO
It looks like it matches this Chinese fake found at the aliexpress.com link below. Notice the larger second 7. I don't think the Gallery Mint ever made a 1797, but the detail of Liberty's head matches the 1796 originally issued by them. It appears various Gallery Mint replicas have been used as a basis for creating dies for some other issues listed on the site.
At least a couple of items recently on Ebay that were listed as Gallery Mint replicas appeared to match Chinese copies. So far I have only noticed copper issues but have not looked into it further. They appear to have a different slightly mushy texture and or strike if you compare pictures on aliexpress.com to original Gallery Mint items. So anyone considering buying GM issues has to now be aware of counterfeit replicas. Seems like this also happened to some Dan Carr issues some years ago. Just do a search on aliexpress.com first to see if they have them and compare how they look.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item...47a6-a914-453d4b53be93
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Bumping just in case it was missed. I think it may have been solved in my post above.
If you find something odd it may make sense to do a search on aliexpress.com first to see if exist there. Or it could be they may merely have a copy of a real thing you have that is of interest.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
It looks like it matches this Chinese fake found at the aliexpress.com link below. Notice the larger second 7. I don't think the Gallery Mint ever made a 1797, but the detail of Liberty's head matches the 1796 originally issued by them. It appears various Gallery Mint replicas have been used as a basis for creating dies for some other issues listed on the site.
At least a couple of items recently on Ebay that were listed as Gallery Mint replicas appeared to match Chinese copies. So far I have only noticed copper issues but have not looked into it further. They appear to have a different slightly mushy texture and or strike if you compare pictures on aliexpress.com to original Gallery Mint items. So anyone considering buying GM issues has to now be aware of counterfeit replicas. Seems like this also happened to some Dan Carr issues some years ago. Just do a search on aliexpress.com first to see if they have them and compare how they look.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item...47a6-a914-453d4b53be93
I think you are right.
Waiting on better pictures and weight.
Forgot to mention the diameter in millimeters also.
R.I.P. Bear