Selling the coin and not the label is now a "marketing tactic?"
Listing seems fair and open to me. Is seller's disagreement with the TPGs opinion of the coin what bothers you? Seller provided fairly decent pics and a 14 day return option to support his opinion. How's that not open and fair?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
One issue here is that eBay doesn't allow numerical grading in titles (even like Julian did it).
Kind of a smackdown from Julian in his response "The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins. " - who says that the OP is not? And how many "serious numismatists" are prowling eBay for 5 digit coins?
Can you explain what you're seeing in the photos that makes you think that it's been cleaned? I read what you said about differing levels of toning, but to my eye that's nothing but differences in photography technique. The coin looks exactly the same in all three sets of photos....... or are you seeing something else too?
Can you explain what you're seeing in the photos that makes you think that it's been cleaned? I read what you said about differing levels of toning, but to my eye that's nothing but differences in photography technique. The coin looks exactly the same in all three sets of photos....... or are you seeing something else too?
Bottom right from the date is very obvious. It's not the lighting, according to me.
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
We know what this coin's asking price is from the Dealer to a potential client. Now, reverse the roles- say that client enters the Dealer's place of business offering this exact coin.
It's OK for a TPG to disagree with itself but when an experienced dealer disagrees with the TPG it it becomes questionable "market tactics?"
Where's the outrage of a major TPG contradicting its own opinion?
Grading is subjective opinion, you either agree or you don't. You buy the coin, not the label. Collectors have become lazy, depending on TPGs to set the value of their coins. Seller in question is setting his own value.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Originally posted by: cheezhed Yes we can and do disagree with some TPG opinions but it appears this dealer disagrees with every one of them.
Agreed. I like and respect his contributions to the hobby and the business but frankly the whole "we disagree with the TPG" thing has gotten old, especially given that gradual tpg gradeflation has been the norm for some time. I'd have left it in the 63 holder, thanked our host for the gift and been happy. No doubt it's had more than one resub trying to get it back into a problem free holder. The coin isn't unattractive to be sure, but imo it has the look of something perhaps lightly dipped at some point that has begun to retone.
Blessings Julian, and peace too. Thank you DerryB, as well. I would echo my first post, but there's little need. It's good to be among the giants of the hobby here. A luxury (hobby) it is. As well (the business and industry), a grind.
Originally posted by: Julian Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others. One reason that I do have coins that the services list as problems is that I understand rarity and condition for now over 50 years and for the most part don't automatically pass on coins, just because of what someone else thinks.
The most important aspect of collecting really anything is that you must have patience, both in buying and selling.
Numismatics is clearly a luxury.
Patience is critical.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
But the TPGs disagree, and if the coin continues to come back 'cleaned' on resubmission... that is the general 3rd party consensus. The whole idea of the TPG is to give a buyer who is less knowledgeable, or has not seen the coin in person, a second opinion-as well as one for yourself. The listing isn't deceptive, but I think you're turning people off. Because, you have a motivation to make the coin look better, when the TPGs do not.
Why not just list the coin raw? If you disagree so often, why submit coins at all?
I think the reason is because the TPGs nearly always get the grade right.
Appears that the seller's point is that TPGs do not always get the grade right and when they don't, there is opportunity for money to be made. Kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
Let's assume this dealer knows more than the TPGs as you and his band of benefactors are claiming. Youre missing an important step. Getting it into the correct holder before the asking price gets jacked up. That's generally how the cherrypicking works. Here we are seeing the opposite, the slam dunk gem is sent in for regarding, gets ina worse slab, and then the price is jacked up anyway. The only opportunity that creates is in finding a sucker.
Let's assume this dealer knows more than the TPGs as you and his band of benefactors are claiming. Youre missing an important step. Getting it into the correct holder before the asking price gets jacked up. That's generally how the cherrypicking works. Here we are seeing the opposite, the slam dunk gem is sent in for regarding, gets ina worse slab, and then the price is jacked up anyway. The only opportunity that creates is in finding a sucker.
Like I said, kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
Let's assume this dealer knows more than the TPGs as you and his band of benefactors are claiming. Youre missing an important step. Getting it into the correct holder before the asking price gets jacked up. That's generally how the cherrypicking works. Here we are seeing the opposite, the slam dunk gem is sent in for regarding, gets ina worse slab, and then the price is jacked up anyway. The only opportunity that creates is in finding a sucker.
Like I said, kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
Yes, and the guy who took out that 100k gold 20 to improve it and consigned to this seller was also thinking outside the box. Who are the TPGs to say a coin cant be polished nice and shiny?
If I was a conspiracy theorist, my guess would go something like this...Consortium of dealers need an outlet for mistakes and bad gambles. Prop up a member of the circle as the TPG slayer with years behind his opinion and send all these mistakes his way to minimize losses. Defend bad coins with poofed up descriptions to the death when attacked.
It's a wonder with all the trashing that Julian is subjected to by some board members why PCGS has him on their Board of Experts. Oh yeah ... it's because Julian IS a highly respect expert with decades of experience and has forgotten more about numismatics than most posters here will ever know. [Not that Julian needs any of us to defend him, mind you.]
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It was a major mistake to have taken both of those coins out of MS63 holders, only to get the cleaned designation each time. It was bad judgment by Julian that took both of those coins out of MS63 holders. He gambled and lost. But does he believe that 50 years in numismatics and being highly respected means he can ask the sky and believe that someone will pay it? Time will only tell if and when he sells those 2 coins and for what price.
Originally posted by: astrorat It's a wonder with all the trashing that Julian is subjected to by some board members why PCGS has him on their Board of Experts. Oh yeah ... it's because Julian IS a highly respect expert with decades of experience and has forgotten more about numismatics than most posters here will ever know. [Not that Julian needs any of us to defend him, mind you.]
Who is questioning what he knows and doesn't know? Can you point to that exact post?
How come you never have a coin where you disagree with the grading service because it's graded too high? It goes both ways.
Have you ever tried to sell your house by way of an open house? Did you just leave all the mess setting around or did you get it "show ready" and bake some bread for the smell and get the lawn done that day?
Or have you ever gone on a first date? Did you clean up and get a hair cut for it? How come I never saw someone just like they roll out of bed on a Saturday morning in sweat pants?
Do those go both ways too? Of course not. When selling his wares he makes them look first day worthy or Open House ready. And you would too.
I don't think his "Matte Proofs" are really MPL's. I would love to snag them all up, but it would be a waste of his and my time. It would take just 5 minutes to check for die markers (which PCGS would have already done), and if they didn't see them, they aren't there.
The gripes about pricing would carry more weight if the coins were actually selling. There's an 1875 trade dollar in inventory that I absolutely love (saw it at a Baltimore show) but it's priced as a PQ+ 65, although graded as a PCGS 64.
The coin has been in inventory for many years.
I do wish the coin was priced more realistically, as I'd seriously consider it.
I had a coin come back 3 different grades from an auction where I purchased it raw as a MS64. The grades received in order were N64, P63, and then N65 (price range of $3K to $18K) Are you suggesting I should have sold the coin for $3K since that's what PCGS once graded it? Another time I cracked out a PCGS MS 64 gold coin that went NGC-BB, PCGS-BB, and then NGC MS66. Once again, 3 different opinions and a price range of $1500-$5500. In both cases, I sold the coins for the upper value, ignoring previous lower grades.
A coin that was formerly graded as PCGS 63 as this bust quarter, is probably still worth no less than that price even if it comes back "genuine" on a later submission. That reminds me of an unc 1841 half I had that I was trying to get a 64 grade on. It went in 5 times and results included 62, BB, BB, 63, 63 (not in that order). I stuck with the 63 grade and still sold it for strong 63 money as the coin had some qualities of a 64. The waffling on the BB was due to a very well hidden area where a spot was probably removed. The TPG's either didn't see it every time, or didn't feel it was that significant each time. For both of the above coins you can't even come to a conclusion of what their real "market" grades were after those 3-5 submissions. It just shows the variation that can occur. Grading events do nothing more than bracket the value. It's up to buyers and sellers to refine where in that range the price should reside.
Bottom line on Julian's bust quarter is that it was once graded PCGS 63 (ie not cleaned or genuine). I suspect if submitted more times, it will find its way back into a 63 holder. A lot of coins out there have a lot of submissions under their belt. The current grade is only 1 grade, not the entire history or even an average of all the grades.
Originally posted by: OriginalDan The gripes about pricing would carry more weight if the coins were actually selling. There's an 1875 trade dollar in inventory that I absolutely love (saw it at a Baltimore show) but it's priced as a PQ+ 65, although graded as a PCGS 64.
The coin has been in inventory for many years.
I do wish the coin was priced more realistically, as I'd seriously consider it.
I've only seen his auctions on Ebay and he prices everything very high. I don't think he's in a hurry to sell anything and it seems like he believes his reputation is enough to warrant higher prices. But I believe that most people buy the coin and not the provenance of buying from a big-name dealer.
what makes me laugh about this thread is imagining i own the coin and i am shopping it around at a show as a 64. i would get laughed out of the building. i doubt anyone would offer me MS money for it.
Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%, in my opinion.
Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%, in my opinion.
Let's clarify for the sake of fairness.
More than just an opinion. How about most recent Ebay solds? That is if you want to be fair.
Fair is the best policy next to honesty, honestly. One man's treasure is another man's junk & vice versa in fairness. It's a question of who supports what. And why ? I would support anyone protecting their own.
Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
I have MAO on all of my listings.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%.
Not at all accurate. I will be delighted to purchase all that you have for at least 50% of my asking price.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
I have always like to fan the flames so to speak, but I play by the rule that if you own it you get to set the price. When I set up at a show I intend to sell a lot and price what I consider very fair. Every show you always get a few know it alls, a few that think they are the only person in the whole show that has money...
I don't have the only table in the room, feel free to go to others if you don't like my prices.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%.
Not at all accurate. I will be delighted to purchase all that you have for at least 50% of my asking price.
Extremely incorrect. Your homestead quarter 004 (pump handle) ms 67 anacs are selling for under $100. You're asking $995.00. Your offer to me is foolish. I wouldn't take advantage of you.
My biggest gripe is that he has "PNG" plastered all over his auctions on eBay. PNG has a code of ethics, some would argue the listing practices are not in line with many of the points therein.
Something just doesn't "add up" -- Currently listed on eBay from this dealer are:
2,593 items with "PCGS" in the title, of which 68 also have the word "details" or "Genuine" -- that's 2.6% of those listed.
1,085 items with "NGC" in the title, of which 169 contain the word "details" -- that's 15.6% of those listed.
Either he has the worst luck of any dealer in submitting coins, or he disagrees a LOT with the opinions of the industry leaders with regard to coin grades.
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Originally posted by: brg5658 My biggest gripe is that he has "PNG" plastered all over his auctions on eBay. PNG has a code of ethics, some would argue the listing practices are not in line with many of the points therein.
Something just doesn't "add up" -- Currently listed on eBay from this dealer are:
2,593 items with "PCGS" in the title, of which 68 also have the word "details" or "Genuine" -- that's 2.6% of those listed.
1,085 items with "NGC" in the title, of which 169 contain the word "details" -- that's 15.6% of those listed.
Either he has the worst luck of any dealer in submitting coins, or he disagrees a LOT with the opinions of the industry leaders with regard to coin grades.
Or he sees peanuts where others see shells. It adds up - he uses his many years of experience to profit on what he (and obviously his buyers) consider to be incorrectly graded details coins. Appears to be a market there and kudos to him for having the galls to question traditional grading.
Please be specific when accusing a PNG dealer of ethics violations.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Let's do an experiment. Buy dealer coin in disagreed details case. Crack out. Take pics. Come brag about said coin here with pictures. See how the coin looks in the hands of a regular schmoe to the same gang.
what makes me laugh about this thread is imagining i own the coin and i am shopping it around at a show as a 64. i would get laughed out of the building. i doubt anyone would offer me MS money for it.
what makes me laugh about this thread is imagining i own the coin and i am shopping it around at a show as a 64. i would get laughed out of the building. i doubt anyone would offer me MS money for it.
This right here people!!!
You're talking about this coin, right?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Please be specific when accusing a PNG dealer of ethics violations.
How about 8, 9(a), and 9(d) for starters? Another with pretty strong evidence from the eBay listings alone would be 9(g). Remember, the PNG is tasked with protecting non-professional customers from unscrupulous dealers. The defense implied that anyone who doesn't understand his listing practices is simply not "sophisticated" or "serious" enough are total bunk. Just my opinions.
========================================
(bold added for emphasis)
8. To grade coins accurately to the best of my ability and in accordance with recognized industry standards (or disclose fully my particular grading standards and how they may differ from recognized industry standards).
9. To refrain from any of the following in dealing with non-professional customers:
(a) buying or selling at unreasonable prices;
(b) using high pressure sales techniques;
(c) using misleading performance data;
(d) comparing coins graded by a fringe grading service with those graded by an industry standard independent grading service in a way calculated to create an inaccurate impression; [Julian is not an industry standard]
(e) intentionally misrepresenting the origin, provenance or pedigree of a coin;
(f) intentionally misrepresenting the weight of a coin;
(g) intentionally misrepresenting the value of a coin.
(h) intentionally misrepresenting the investment potential of coins;
(i) intentionally misrepresenting an affiliation between myself and any Government agency.
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Comments
Listing seems fair and open to me. Is seller's disagreement with the TPGs opinion of the coin what bothers you? Seller provided fairly decent pics and a 14 day return option to support his opinion. How's that not open and fair?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Kind of a smackdown from Julian in his response "The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins. " - who says that the OP is not? And how many "serious numismatists" are prowling eBay for 5 digit coins?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Can you explain what you're seeing in the photos that makes you think that it's been cleaned? I read what you said about differing levels of toning, but to my eye that's nothing but differences in photography technique. The coin looks exactly the same in all three sets of photos....... or are you seeing something else too?
vpr,
Can you explain what you're seeing in the photos that makes you think that it's been cleaned? I read what you said about differing levels of toning, but to my eye that's nothing but differences in photography technique. The coin looks exactly the same in all three sets of photos....... or are you seeing something else too?
Bottom right from the date is very obvious. It's not the lighting, according to me.
Now, reverse the roles- say that client enters the Dealer's place of business offering this exact coin.
Do the accolades change?
peacockcoins
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1805-V...413:g:bzYAAOxy4dNS2YeU
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
1805 dime, formerly NGC 63, now NGC Unc details, improperly cleaned.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1805-V...413:g:bzYAAOxy4dNS2YeU
It's OK for a TPG to disagree with itself but when an experienced dealer disagrees with the TPG it it becomes questionable "market tactics?"
Where's the outrage of a major TPG contradicting its own opinion?
Grading is subjective opinion, you either agree or you don't. You buy the coin, not the label. Collectors have become lazy, depending on TPGs to set the value of their coins. Seller in question is setting his own value.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
1805 dime, formerly NGC 63, now NGC Unc details, improperly cleaned.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1805-V...413:g:bzYAAOxy4dNS2YeU
This looks incredibly cleaned.
It's probably more like:
Pcgs opinion: 63
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
NGC opinion: Cleaned
"Well, crap"
yep!
My YouTube Channel
Julian's response shows that he is a class act.
My YouTube Channel
Yes we can and do disagree with some TPG opinions but it appears this dealer disagrees with every one of them.
Agreed. I like and respect his contributions to the hobby and the business but frankly the whole "we disagree with the TPG" thing has gotten old, especially given that gradual tpg gradeflation has been the norm for some time. I'd have left it in the 63 holder, thanked our host for the gift and been happy. No doubt it's had more than one resub trying to get it back into a problem free holder. The coin isn't unattractive to be sure, but imo it has the look of something perhaps lightly dipped at some point that has begun to retone.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others. One reason that I do have coins that the services list as problems is that I understand rarity and condition for now over 50 years and for the most part don't automatically pass on coins, just because of what someone else thinks.
The most important aspect of collecting really anything is that you must have patience, both in buying and selling.
Numismatics is clearly a luxury.
Patience is critical.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
But the TPGs disagree, and if the coin continues to come back 'cleaned' on resubmission... that is the general 3rd party consensus. The whole idea of the TPG is to give a buyer who is less knowledgeable, or has not seen the coin in person, a second opinion-as well as one for yourself. The listing isn't deceptive, but I think you're turning people off. Because, you have a motivation to make the coin look better, when the TPGs do not.
Why not just list the coin raw?
If you disagree so often, why submit coins at all?
I think the reason is because the TPGs nearly always get the grade right.
Appears that the seller's point is that TPGs do not always get the grade right and when they don't, there is opportunity for money to be made. Kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
Let's assume this dealer knows more than the TPGs as you and his band of benefactors are claiming. Youre missing an important step. Getting it into the correct holder before the asking price gets jacked up. That's generally how the cherrypicking works. Here we are seeing the opposite, the slam dunk gem is sent in for regarding, gets ina worse slab, and then the price is jacked up anyway. The only opportunity that creates is in finding a sucker.
Like I said, kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
The dealer's comments on coin grading
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Like I said, kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
The dealer's comments on coin grading
Yes, and the guy who took out that 100k gold 20 to improve it and consigned to this seller was also thinking outside the box. Who are the TPGs to say a coin cant be polished nice and shiny?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It's a wonder with all the trashing that Julian is subjected to by some board members why PCGS has him on their Board of Experts. Oh yeah ... it's because Julian IS a highly respect expert with decades of experience and has forgotten more about numismatics than most posters here will ever know. [Not that Julian needs any of us to defend him, mind you.]
Who is questioning what he knows and doesn't know? Can you point to that exact post?
I don't understand our world much anymore when we decide to tell people what they are allowed to charge or not charge.
How come you never have a coin where you disagree with the grading service because it's graded too high? It goes both ways.
Have you ever tried to sell your house by way of an open house?
Did you just leave all the mess setting around or did you get it "show ready" and bake some bread for the smell and get the lawn done that day?
Or have you ever gone on a first date?
Did you clean up and get a hair cut for it?
How come I never saw someone just like they roll out of bed on a Saturday morning in sweat pants?
Do those go both ways too? Of course not. When selling his wares he makes them look first day worthy or Open House ready. And you would too.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
The coin has been in inventory for many years.
I do wish the coin was priced more realistically, as I'd seriously consider it.
A coin that was formerly graded as PCGS 63 as this bust quarter, is probably still worth no less than that price even if it comes back "genuine" on a later submission. That reminds me of an unc 1841 half I had that I was trying to get a 64 grade on. It went in 5 times and results included 62, BB, BB, 63, 63 (not in that order). I stuck with the 63 grade and still sold it for strong 63 money as the coin had some qualities of a 64. The waffling on the BB was due to a very well hidden area where a spot was probably removed. The TPG's either didn't see it every time, or didn't feel it was that significant each time. For both of the above coins you can't even come to a conclusion of what their real "market" grades were after those 3-5 submissions. It just shows the variation that can occur. Grading events do nothing more than bracket the value. It's up to buyers and sellers to refine where in that range the price should reside.
Bottom line on Julian's bust quarter is that it was once graded PCGS 63 (ie not cleaned or genuine). I suspect if submitted more times, it will find its way back into a 63 holder. A lot of coins out there have a lot of submissions under their belt. The current grade is only 1 grade, not the entire history or even an average of all the grades.
The gripes about pricing would carry more weight if the coins were actually selling. There's an 1875 trade dollar in inventory that I absolutely love (saw it at a Baltimore show) but it's priced as a PQ+ 65, although graded as a PCGS 64.
The coin has been in inventory for many years.
I do wish the coin was priced more realistically, as I'd seriously consider it.
I've only seen his auctions on Ebay and he prices everything very high. I don't think he's in a hurry to sell anything and it seems like he believes his reputation is enough to warrant higher prices. But I believe that most people buy the coin and not the provenance of buying from a big-name dealer.
I put myself thru college by growing shrooms! Bought some coins with the money as well!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%.
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%, in my opinion.
Let's clarify for the sake of fairness.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%, in my opinion.
Let's clarify for the sake of fairness.
More than just an opinion. How about most recent Ebay solds? That is if you want to be fair.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%, in my opinion.
Let's clarify for the sake of fairness.
More than just an opinion. How about most recent Ebay solds? That is if you want to be fair.
Fair is the best policy next to honesty, honestly.
One man's treasure is another man's junk & vice versa in fairness.
It's a question of who supports what. And why ? I would support anyone protecting their own.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
You're in the right job. LMAO.
Nice job of not replying to indisputable facts.
You're in the right job. LMAO.
That's what people tell me with every job I've held.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
I have MAO on all of my listings.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%.
Not at all accurate. I will be delighted to purchase all that you have for at least 50% of my asking price.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
I don't have the only table in the room, feel free to go to others if you don't like my prices.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
As was stated by OP. The coins owner can ask whatever he wants. My guess is that it wont sell at this price point. Not now, not in Julian's lifetime.
He's probably guessing the same thing and might just be why he almost always includes a "Make Offer" button.
Offer him 15% of his asking price and see if he'll bite.
On one of his modern errors, if you bid 15% of ask, you will be overpaying by 50%.
Not at all accurate. I will be delighted to purchase all that you have for at least 50% of my asking price.
Extremely incorrect. Your homestead quarter 004 (pump handle) ms 67 anacs are selling for under $100. You're asking $995.00. Your offer to me is foolish. I wouldn't take advantage of you.
Something just doesn't "add up" -- Currently listed on eBay from this dealer are:
2,593 items with "PCGS" in the title, of which 68 also have the word "details" or "Genuine" -- that's 2.6% of those listed.
1,085 items with "NGC" in the title, of which 169 contain the word "details" -- that's 15.6% of those listed.
Either he has the worst luck of any dealer in submitting coins, or he disagrees a LOT with the opinions of the industry leaders with regard to coin grades.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My biggest gripe is that he has "PNG" plastered all over his auctions on eBay. PNG has a code of ethics, some would argue the listing practices are not in line with many of the points therein.
Something just doesn't "add up" -- Currently listed on eBay from this dealer are:
2,593 items with "PCGS" in the title, of which 68 also have the word "details" or "Genuine" -- that's 2.6% of those listed.
1,085 items with "NGC" in the title, of which 169 contain the word "details" -- that's 15.6% of those listed.
Either he has the worst luck of any dealer in submitting coins, or he disagrees a LOT with the opinions of the industry leaders with regard to coin grades.
Or he sees peanuts where others see shells. It adds up - he uses his many years of experience to profit on what he (and obviously his buyers) consider to be incorrectly graded details coins. Appears to be a market there and kudos to him for having the galls to question traditional grading.
Please be specific when accusing a PNG dealer of ethics violations.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
This right here people!!!
This right here people!!!
You're talking about this coin, right?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Please be specific when accusing a PNG dealer of ethics violations.
How about 8, 9(a), and 9(d) for starters? Another with pretty strong evidence from the eBay listings alone would be 9(g). Remember, the PNG is tasked with protecting non-professional customers from unscrupulous dealers. The defense implied that anyone who doesn't understand his listing practices is simply not "sophisticated" or "serious" enough are total bunk. Just my opinions.
========================================
(bold added for emphasis)
8. To grade coins accurately to the best of my ability and in accordance with recognized industry standards (or disclose fully my particular grading standards and how they may differ from recognized industry standards).
9. To refrain from any of the following in dealing with non-professional customers:
(a) buying or selling at unreasonable prices;
(b) using high pressure sales techniques;
(c) using misleading performance data;
(d) comparing coins graded by a fringe grading service with those graded by an industry standard independent grading service in a way calculated to create an inaccurate impression; [Julian is not an industry standard]
(e) intentionally misrepresenting the origin, provenance or pedigree of a coin;
(f) intentionally misrepresenting the weight of a coin;
(g) intentionally misrepresenting the value of a coin.
(h) intentionally misrepresenting the investment potential of coins;
(i) intentionally misrepresenting an affiliation between myself and any Government agency.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-