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Thoughts on this 1858-S Quarter PCGS XF45?
jclovescoins
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Thoughts on this 1858-S Quarter PCGS XF45? What's a fair price?
TrueView cert # 33329991
Update: I bought the coin raw in Tampa from a dealer and I sent it to PCGS myself. It has not been messed with. In looking at the Heritage records, it is the same coin from December 2015 but also the same coin that sold on Heritage many years prior in the same ANACS holder (2/07). You can see how it nicely retoned from 2/07 to present. The Heritage images were a little harsh and the PCGS images were a little friendly. In any event, XF45 I feel is a fair grade. I do not think the post on the website was fair or justified. It's a coin with strong AU details that has hairlines and has nicely been retoning. Much better piece than a lot of the ugly XF that have sold.
TrueView cert # 33329991
Update: I bought the coin raw in Tampa from a dealer and I sent it to PCGS myself. It has not been messed with. In looking at the Heritage records, it is the same coin from December 2015 but also the same coin that sold on Heritage many years prior in the same ANACS holder (2/07). You can see how it nicely retoned from 2/07 to present. The Heritage images were a little harsh and the PCGS images were a little friendly. In any event, XF45 I feel is a fair grade. I do not think the post on the website was fair or justified. It's a coin with strong AU details that has hairlines and has nicely been retoning. Much better piece than a lot of the ugly XF that have sold.
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2005 for $4100 and 2010 for $5175 with BP.
Probably around $3500 - $4000 today?
Doug
link to thread
Latin American Collection
RonHedden:
Thanks, Ron, I very much appreciate the thought and stated reference, though I am not sure that your link works.
Hopefully, this will link to the thread that I started on 1858-S quarters
As for the specific quarter cited in the top post, I repeat my opinion that it is not a good idea to grade coins from images. There is really a need to inspect coins in actuality.
How will Coin Collectors Interpret Certified Coin Grades in the Future?
That's overall a pretty wholesome XF45 with some luster even if it's secondary toning. Looks like the right obv field could have some scuffing or wiping that might be a distraction.
Try finding this date in XF/AU with luster and original surfaces. It'd actually give it AU50 details, it's certainly sharper than XF45, esp. the reverse. A little more luster and it might have gone AU50. I think the prices have come down a bit on this date in XF the past couple of years. I would think $3K would be low and $4K might be strong. Don't confuse this date with the 59-s, 60-s, or 61-s which are much tougher in XF. I consider the 58-s to be between those dates and the 56-s/57-s/62-s. While the 58-s is challenging in strong VF or better, I don't think it's as rare as a lot of people think. I would suggest that an 1858-0 in MS61 or higher is probably tougher than a 58-s in XF45 or higher. And both are in a similar price range of $2K-$4K. The 58-s seems to evoke more emotion than a "lowly" 58-0 with a 4.3X higher mintage.
Fwiw I sold a raw, attractive XF45 details 58-s that body bagged because the surfaces were a tad too hard and bright with secondary toning well underway. I really thought that coin was a 45 with luster that should have graded at 40. The coin wasn't problem free, but it wasn't harshly cleaned either. Someone else will probably get than in an XF40 holder and a $3K price tag. I sold that coin raw for $2K to a dealer exactly two years ago at FUN (probably VF25/30 money). I originally found it raw at a local show in 2011 graded AU and priced just under CDN at $1050. That's my kind of price guide! It wasn't as nice or sharp as this slabbed XF45. Spending $3K to $4K for an XF 58-s is still a nice chunk of change. And you can find them out there.
Doug
Read all about this coin here:
Gerry Fortin daily blog
i don't know if it is fair to condemn cracking a cleaned coin out and resubbing...
Agreed, but was it just cracked and resubmitted or was it enhanced?
EAC 6024
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I bought the coin raw in Tampa from a dealer and I sent it to PCGS myself. It has not been messed with. In looking at the Heritage records, it is the same coin from December 2015 but also the same coin that sold on Heritage many years prior in the same ANACS holder (2/07). You can see how it nicely retoned from 2/07 to present. The Heritage images were a little harsh and the PCGS images were a little friendly. In any event, XF45 I feel is a fair grade. I do not think the post on the website was fair or justified. It's a coin with strong AU details that has hairlines and has nicely been retoning. Much better piece than a lot of the ugly XF that have sold.
I agree with you and based solely on images disagree with Gerry.
The coin sat in the same holder for 7-8 years and you can clearly see the coin has retoned in the holder after sitting for so many years.
There are thousands of coins that have been cleaned in the past but have developed secondary toning and since have been graded.
A sharp crack out dealer recognized that this coin now has become market acceptable and resubmit it and got it straight graded.
I see no wrong on anyone's part and I would have no problem buying that coin.
Heritage archives
There are plenty of VF35-AU58 specimens selling in the past several years. Some of those XF45-AU55 specimens are in genuine holders, but they aren't trash either. There are 2 XF details coins sold in the past year at $645-$765. A PCGS VF35 CAC at $1645 and another w/o CAC at $1295 give an idea of what these have been bringing in 2015. An XF45 with issues, even if not in a details holder shouldn't be worth more than around 2X a stickered VF35.
I note a PCGS AU53 at $4112 in 2014. Who says XF45's bring $5K now in a weaker market? And noteworthy is that the same PCGS AU 58 specimen brought $11,162 on 3/21/14 and then $7,050 on 11/6/2014. That's a big drop in only 8 months for a coin bordering on condition census. No way would I pay $5K for a 45 when a 58 brought $7K. The ex-Eliasberg/Gardner NGC AU58 recently sold for $8812....not a really strong price if that's the best AU58 in a holder. I would figure an AU58 at a min of 2X the price of an XF45 because the coin becomes quite elusive in 58+ to 62. Review the Heritage archive link and make your own opinion. My thoughts are that typical circ specimens seems to be worth 60-80% of PCGS price guide, with 70-75% being about the norm. If you want price guide it should be an exceptional problem-free, totally original, and high end piece.
NGC XF details with lite scratches at $880
Not that bad a coin. I don't see this much different than a coin that was lightly cleaned. There are plenty of specimens in the range of VF25-AU58 to take care of all the set builders that want one. Any pieces "graded" MS61/62 can satisfy the one or two guys who have to have a top UNC registry set. In the past 4 years I found my XF45 for $1050 and JCLovescoins found his for $1150. You might be able to as well.
Nowhere near 5k
The only research needed was checking a CDN. A 5 min review of the Heritage archives would have sealed it. The coin should have been confidently purchased at $1150. I'd have paid that if it were raw....the ANACS slab was a plus. If semi-cleaned and slabbed VF 20's to 30's can fetch $1,000+. This one represented a good opportunity with minimal downside.