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How exactly is GSC's success possible for so long?

ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
Someone asked in another thread, why their bidders don't bid on their coins. And it really is an intriguing question. How can such loyalty exist for a seller who has for at least a decade now that I know of, sold problem coins as gems? Why are these buyers only going to this one seller so consistently, and have none of them gone and tried to re-sell their purchases later? It is mind boggling to me with such a small overall hobby pool and the internet that this can go on for so long.
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Comments

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Same reason people sometimes don't report rape? Embarrassment. Assumption they are to blame. Figure no one will believe them.



    I have to assume it isn't the same people buying all those years....Some of them must have figured it out and moved on. New victims have stepped into their place....
    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's funny to read some of their responses to the image was better than coin complaints. "We try our hardest on images" is the reply. There is a reason the images in their auctions are set to the default gallery view within the auction. Plus they do try hard to cover up all problems with lighting and low resolution images. I am glad they at least add the GSC logo to all the images in all of their listings. It makes it very easy to bypass when I'm looking for coins.
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    80% of the people are stupid
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because, just like many do on here, people that get ripped off are told they "paid tuition" instead of offering honest, and friendly, advice.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭
    GSC?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
    80% of the people are stupid


    image

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GSC = Great Southern Coins on eBay.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ask they guy who bought a couple buffalo nickel proofs as unc
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a lot of people still don't have a clue that they coins they bought are not what they thought, until they go an sell which many have not. And in some cases, they family members are the ones that end up selling it, so it really doesn't matter.



    This past year I can tell you several collections where family members came in to sell pops collection , and a few even had original receipts, but the coins were not what they were portrayed to be. Many like this, our same as our coin club members, are just accumulators and never sell till their heirs get the stuff. And they really don't care, they just want the money, sometimes Ill get a few that cant figure while pop paid like 399.00 for a 1928 peace $ that was supposed to be UNC, yet is a cleaned xf/au and I don't even want it or my offer is quite low.



  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    Volume.....

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Barndog

    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

    80% of the people are stupid




    image







    You two are being kind



    People want to believe.



    mark
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess some folks just don't know or they don't care the coins from GSC are cleaned or have other issues. I also bypass their listings. No good, stay away, is my suggestion to all. JMO
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you keep throwing the same stuff at the wall over and over, eventually it sticks.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,341 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought there was an accusation much of their offerings are shilled.

    If that's the case, where is the overall success?



    Either way, I haven't purchased from them yet do find it a bit tough to believe

    so many people, let alone 80% of their buyers are stupid.



    Sounds insulting and an answer that is a bit too simplistic.

    peacockcoins

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stupid is a bit harsh. Ill informed may have been a better choice



    mark
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I think since they start everything at $9.95 it's all a lock to sell. Since E-Bay uses algorythm's that reward sellers that bring them a cut, those coins get presented when you search for things first. Add to that the fact that they shill things and don't care about the consignors well being......



    Funny, I can put up an identical coin, date and mintmark, in a holder with a CAC sticker for less that the "sold" prices they realize and get no looks. Like most though, starting quality at a low price is just too stupid to attempt.



    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar
    Well, I think since they start everything at $9.95 it's all a lock to sell. Since E-Bay uses algorythm's that reward sellers that bring them a cut, those coins get presented when you search for things first. Add to that the fact that they shill things and don't care about the consignors well being......

    Funny, I can put up an identical coin, date and mintmark, in a holder with a CAC sticker for less that the "sold" prices they realize and get no looks. Like most though, starting quality at a low price is just too stupid to attempt.



    I'm sure ebay has tricks up their sleeve but as soon as you go newly listed the algorithm is done.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Greed is the most common cause of blindness.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think it's stupidity or ignorance (well, maybe a little).



    Many people who collect simply don't really care about the condition of the coins they buy.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: crazyhounddog

    No good, stay away, is my suggestion to all. JMO




    except for the experienced.



    a little bird told me someone(s) picked buff proofs and major varieties from them. hehe



    i've done it.





    If you keep throwing the same stuff at the wall over and over, eventually it sticks.




    ahh yes, good 'ol monkey-poo theory. image

    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BryceM
    I don't think it's stupidity or ignorance (well, maybe a little).

    Many people who collect simply don't really care about the condition of the coins they buy.


    I agree but why the loyalty to THIS seller?

  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can think of another dealer who's been in the coin business for over 40 years, and is a total jerk and bad businessman who overgrades and overprices everything. He makes his money by cheating people, and he is good at it. He's the type of individual that would not hesitate to rip off an elderly person who walks into the shop with coins to sell and no idea what they're worth. He berates customers over the phone in plain view of everyone in the shop. Sometimes, being a total con man can lead to longevity in the coin business as long as the profits keep rollin' in.



    As for GSC- they must have a return customer base that is happy with their purchases, or they wouldn't have lasted for so long on eBay. Personally, I bought one coin from them years ago and returned it without a problem.



  • This content has been removed.
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    I bought 5 coins from them during one week years ago.

    All had problems, but their return procedure is very easy and they issued the refund very fast.

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they do a better job of marketing their coins on eBay because they conduct a no reserve(?) auction every day and they email highlights of every auction to a large number of potential bidders. They seem to be the major market maker for RAW coins in the business. It can be tempting to buy their RAW coins hoping you can get them graded by a TPG. I have done that, but with mixed results. They have a good return policy which mitigates the risk, but you probably will not have the time or the money to round trip the coin to a TPG so you will have to make your own in hand decision. And many times their auction prices are no bargain considering the risk.



    They seem to have an amazing throughput of key date RAW coins (like 32 D & S quarters). I have often wondered if they are nothing more than a RAW coin clearing house for major dealers or a dealer organization. Has anyone on this forum ever met anyone from GSC in person?



    OINK
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GSM blocked me. When I first started collecting I bid on one of their sales...looked great in the pics, right? Then I won the auction and noticed the shill bidding. I told them to save themselves the shipping as I wasn't paying for an item that they so obviously shilled. Needless to say, if ever tempted (which hasn't happened once in 7 years), I have an appropriate counter-measure in place by being blocked.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1.Many collectors never try to sell any of their coins.Selling,or attempting to sell, a coin from one's collection to a dealer can be an eye-opening experience for the collector.There is no better teacher than first-hand experience.

    2.Many collectors never have learned how to grade their coins. Who needs to learn how to grade when TPG's can do it for you?

    3.Many collectors are unable to identify a problem coin,even a coin with one or more major problems.

    ebay is the perfect venue for selling overgraded,problem,"shlock" coins to the ignorant,misinformed coin consumer.

    80% of the people are stupid.

    I beg to differ.Most people are not stupid."Ignorant" is the better word. One can be quite intelligent but be ignorant to the point of inspiring head-shaking awe among knowledgeable people who have taken the time and put in the effort to educate themselves.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    80% reserve the right to remain ignorant. 19% might not care. 1 % is left over.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: kaz

    If you keep throwing the same stuff at the wall over and over, eventually it sticks.




    image
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was surprised when I found a bids cancelled, auction ended recent listing from them - I did not realize they did this with their shill friends bidding and all.

    http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayI..._trksid=p2047675.l2565
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep got to fill that hole.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every year some people wise and up and no longer do business with that type of dealer....only to be replaced by fresh meat. And that meat keeps rolling in year after year.



    I often wonder how some of my local dealers with varying degrees of integrity have stayed in business for 30-40 years. Basically, they talk smooth, rarely want to buy back what they sold for a fair price, and rely on a fresh supply of customers as older ones wise up. For every person that gets burnt and doesn't return, another one takes their place.



    The coin market relies on fresh newbies that have to go through the learning process of grading and evaluating problem coins. It keeps the $$ rolling in. I'd agree that 80% of buyers are either ignorant or lacking in adequate knowledge to compete with said dealers.



    In the collectibles field, being really honest is almost 1 strike against you. People don't generally want to believe you when you speak the truth or are trying to give them a fair shake. They'd rather go the next guy who they don't even know, who is offering the same item (of lesser quality) for less. Why do people with stuff to sell beat feet to the wrong buyers and sell out for peanuts? I don't know...but it's how it generally works. Make a fair or strong offer, and invariably you won't get the coins.



    I took up the "honesty is best mantra" early on when trying to sell coins to the public...and it never worked. Being part-shyster/huckster/promoter is usually the better business model for continued long term dealer success. For every Jim Dimmick though, there are 4-5 others using the shyster model. image
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are many different business models for coins. Most of us here understand coins and their values and have learned to buy problem free coins. We also have learned that sellers should make any problems known and not hide them. However there are sellers that prey on the lack of knowledge of their buyers. This company has an armada of buyers that buy problem coins at all the shows. Good thing they make a market in them, otherwise problem coins would be close to worthless and would then drag down the market for nice coins. They sell these as wholesome coins at discounts that entice buyers. That's their fault, but it is their business model. As long as there are buyers and sellers there will be sellers who prey on the ignorance of their customers.



    The best way to combat this is to instill the notion that price is not the best determining factor in purchasing a coin. Finding the proper value is important. Value is the fair market price for the quality of the coin.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    I took a fellow co-worker to his first coin show. He had been buying for years off the coin vault TV show. We had a stellar buy,sell, and trade day at the show. He was so happy to fill in his Peace dollar holes. When we got about home I asked you want to go to the show next month? His reply,"naw I'd rather drink beer and buy coins off TV".image
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ah yes, one of my favorite Ebay dealers...Fairly decent pictures too. Which makes them on my list of top dealers to Cherrypick along with VETTE, FairView, GN, etc...Where would my collection be without them....

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The vast majority of the coin market is not as sophisticated as the membership of this forum, and therefore has lower standards for their collections.



    Many of us are So selective and discerning, in fact, that there are NO coins for sale, anywhere in the marketplace, that meet our ultra-high standards of quality and value,

    and therefore we no longer buy any coins at all.



    image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Bayard1908Bayard1908 Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭✭
    They don't want to risk losses on graded coins. I often see them cancel auctions for graded coins that seem to be going low.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    GSC exists for the same reason casinos exit and for the same reason lottery schemes exist.



    Greed...and the tantalizing sensation of buying something of high value for less than its perceived worth.



    PS. Baley, well said!!
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not all of their coins are bad. It's like any other place or dealer........don't buy it if you don't like it.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We don't realize how much higher the level of sophistication is among the people who post on this board compared to the overall collecting community. At lot of people just don't know that much. Look at how many of the not very convincing counterfeits on eBay get bids before they are pulled down.

    Some people never learn because they never try to sell anything they buy. When they try to sell or their heirs try to sell, they find out the truth. They get angry, but their anger is directed toward the dealer who gives them the bad news, not the jerk who sold the coins to them in the first place.

    As for embarrassment, I don't think that plays much of a role. If it did GSC would run out of suckers.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: jtlee321
    It makes it very easy to bypass when I'm looking for coins.


    Shhh! Why don't you just blurb it out so the whole world can hear ya?

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A very similar question could be asked about the coin sellers on HSN.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I posted earlier in the thread about people that buy coins from places like GSC, but because they never sell, they have no idea what they truly bought becuase their heirs who inherit don't care and just come in for the money.


    Its local too, after reading several more posts since. I might mention that there are local dealers who are just as bad. They seem to be able to stay in business because as RR said, there is fresh new collectors continually taking up the slack for the few who later figure out what happened. We have one guy here locally that uses charisma and charm to sucker em in on the buying side, and the same charm when he sells. Its almost like he can sell people problem coins at full retail and make em feel good about what they bought because they don't really know what they are buying. There just taking his word because he has been around. This same guy, will put on a show in front of others and step up and pay higher in a crowd such as the local club meeting for a good impression, but let a little old lady come in with her late husbands coins and no body around and see what he does. He will flat put it to her.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 4,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These guys sicken me. It has gotten to the point of them listing counterfeits as genuine pieces and when eBay is notified nothing is done.
  • TigersFan2TigersFan2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
    I've bought 4 or 5 coins from GSC over the past year and a half and have been pleased, but all the coins I've bought from them have been PCGS so they can't really pass off cleaned, doctored or counterfeit coins as something they're not. My complaint with GSC is that they obviously use shill bidding as I've often encountered getting outbid late by very low feedback bidders who have 98%+ bidding history with GSC. But then again, I've only bid on PCGS coins from them so I've been insulated from their alleged fraud.
    I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
  • TigersFan2TigersFan2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: jdimmick
    I posted earlier in the thread about people that buy coins from places like GSC, but because they never sell, they have no idea what they truly bought becuase their heirs who inherit don't care and just come in for the money.


    Its local too, after reading several more posts since. I might mention that there are local dealers who are just as bad. They seem to be able to stay in business because as RR said, there is fresh new collectors continually taking up the slack for the few who later figure out what happened. We have one guy here locally that uses charisma and charm to sucker em in on the buying side, and the same charm when he sells. Its almost like he can sell people problem coins at full retail and make em feel good about what they bought because they don't really know what they are buying. There just taking his word because he has been around. This same guy, will put on a show in front of others and step up and pay higher in a crowd such as the local club meeting for a good impression, but let a little old lady come in with her late husbands coins and no body around and see what he does. He will flat put it to her.


    Makes me think of the dealers at shows who put raw coins in 2x2s and write MS65 on every one. There are always some dealers who take a lot of liberty with their "grading skills." And there are buyers who will take the dealer at his word for whatever grade he writes on the 2x2.

    It amazes me the amount of raw coins at shows with high grades and high price tags on them. I'm always thinking, "if that coin really is that grade and the dealer really wants to sell at that price, then why doesn't he spend $25 and send it in to PCGS first?"

    I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: roadrunner

    Every year some people wise and up and no longer do business with that type of dealer....only to be replaced by fresh meat. And that meat keeps rolling in year after year.







    In the collectibles field, being really honest is almost 1 strike against you. People don't generally want to believe you when you speak the truth or are trying to give them a fair shake. They'd rather go the next guy who they don't even know, who is offering the same item (of lesser quality) for less. Why do people with stuff to sell beat feet to the wrong buyers and sell out for peanuts? I don't know...but it's how it generally works. Make a fair or strong offer, and invariably you won't get the coins.



    Well stated; my sentiments EXACTLY.....except maybe it's two strikes against you.

    We've all been to shows, shops, etc. where people literally line up to get ****ed by the same guys over and over again.













































  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: VanHalen
    These guys sicken me. It has gotten to the point of them listing counterfeits as genuine pieces and when eBay is notified nothing is done.


    The next time you see one, bring it up on this forum for the 'mass notification' service provided by forum members.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When filling a hole, many don't look, let alone study. That is, until they're done. And the choices made along that path are usually "low grade". And few come to understanding.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Believe it or not there are few dealers who follow the national circuit of coin shows who are almost as bad as GSC. A few of them sell raw coins, but most sell certified material exclusively. They charge very high prices relative to other dealers, offer large quantities sub-par "C" quality coins or amazingly get away with doing both. image

    I don't know how they stay in business, but they keep doing it year after year. image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?

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