What would your position be in this situation ?

coindeuce · January 5, 2016 10:56AM

This is NOT hypothetical. It happened. I was mildly annoyed, still am.

I will not out the other party.

I called a "National" dealer yesterday to inquire about availability of a type coin. The agent/ clerk/salesperson (whatever) had some difficulty confirming the status of the item. After three separate instances of placing me on ignore (hold), I was informed that the coin was going to the F.U.N. Convention for a look-see by another prospective buyer. No mention was made to the effect that the coin was secured temporarily with a deposit. I have not found any evidence that the dealer specifies a deposit required in their terms for such an instance. In other words, the appearance was given that this dealer will work on speculation. Since I was ready, willing and able to buy the coin by telephone, I expressed my disapproval of the way this matter was being handled. Without a disclosure of some financial commitment from another party, I would consider the coin fair game for 1st come, 1st served.

Your opinions ?

Update: I addressed my concern last night to the owner of the business through the contact link on the company site. He responded personally with a very civil response. I responded to that message in kind, and the discussion concluded with a message from him at about 1:00 a.m. Eastern time (he is in Tampa) to the effect that he will make an effort to improve their website to indicate when listings are "on hold" or "sale pending".

My fundamental point here is that every customer deserves the same courtesy as the customer who was afforded 1st right of refusal on speculation.

derryb · January 5, 2016 11:09AM

You're annoyed because they told you it was not available?

pruebas · January 5, 2016 11:10AM

They probably don't own the coin and cant reach the owner to check availability.

If owner sells at FUN, it would be a sight-seen deal (i.e. final). I'm guessing you need the coin mailed to you for approval.

Desert Moon · January 5, 2016 11:15AM

Absolutely agree with you, first come, first served. The other buyer was first, so the coin is on hold for him/her until him/her can see it and decide. The dealer is correctly honoring a commitment made to hold the coin for consideration. This has happened to me many times, I was second, I understand. Such is life.

Best, SH

Wabbit2313 · January 5, 2016 11:18AM

I can only assume the buyer at the show is a good customer, good enough to send a coin for that person to see in person. The other theoretical buyer was a guy on the phone. Off to Tampa she goes!

bolivarshagnasty · January 5, 2016 11:20AM

On the flip side, if they promised me an opportunity to buy the coin at FUN and then sold the coin prior to that, I would be upset as well.

I would just move on.

Boosibri · January 5, 2016 11:22AM

I don't see anything wrong here.

If sold to you would th other buyer have the perspective that they called the dealer and expressed interest in the coin. Since FUN was here thy would like to take a look at it rather than having it sent on approval. The coin goes on hold.

If it sold to you under the circumstances above wouldn't they feel wronged?

DennisH · January 5, 2016 11:23AM

There was a prior expression of interest that was sufficient for the seller to allow a look-see. End of discussion.

TommyType · January 5, 2016 11:24AM

Their coin, their rules.

In a sense, you have to appreciate their willingness to honor their commitment to bring the coin to the show, and pass up the easy money?

coindeuce · January 5, 2016 11:29AM

I can live with a missed opportunity, based on all of the viewpoints offered here except one, who appears to be so important to himself that he can judge how my phone manners may have been. Thanks to all, except the usual jerk.

TopographicOceans · January 5, 2016 11:33AM

It's their coin so they can do what ever they want with it.
It sounds like it is already in transit.
If you really want it, then I'd call the dealer again when FUN starts and tell them you want to buy it now.
Once you pay, the guy at the show would probably put it aside

AUandAG · January 5, 2016 11:34AM

I have found that not every coin is available when I want it, for many reasons.

I was negotiating on an engraved 1870cc dollar a year or two ago and the seller just would not commit.

After several months of trying to buy the coin I gave up and just asked him to contact me when it was available...said he would.

About two months after that I make a call to see if again I could buy it and was told he sold it to someone in SF........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, not what I wanted to hear.

Price was never the issue. I did ask if he would pass my name and number along to the new buyer in case he ever wanted to sell.....that didn't go far either.

bob

Boosibri · January 5, 2016 11:46AM

Originally posted by: AUandAG

I have found that not every coin is available when I want it, for many reasons.

I was negotiating on an engraved 1870cc dollar a year or two ago and the seller just would not commit.

After several months of trying to buy the coin I gave up and just asked him to contact me when it was available...said he would.

About two months after that I make a call to see if again I could buy it and was told he sold it to someone in SF........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, not what I wanted to hear.

Price was never the issue. I did ask if he would pass my name and number along to the new buyer in case he ever wanted to sell.....that didn't go far either.

bob

That would really piss me off if in your situation. I try and remember who expressed interest in the coins I sell before making them generally available. Sometimes I'm sure I screw up.

coindeuce · January 5, 2016 11:50AM

I quickly found an alternate opportunity elsewhere, so again, it isn't necessarily about a particular coin. I see how members are quick to form an opinion, but so far no one has offered what their position would be in the same situation. I find that just as informative as the opinions.

amwldcoin · January 5, 2016 11:51AM

Just flip it around with the coin in transit for you to purchase! I think you will see the error in your judgement. The dealer should have just told you it was on hold or out to another customer for approval. Happens all the time!

dpoole · January 5, 2016 12:07PM

As in real estate, I'd just posit a verbal "back-up contract," i.e., let me take a look at it, if the first buyer doesn't close the deal.

ms70 · January 5, 2016 12:17PM

I can see both sides. I actually placed myself in a similar situation tonight knowing the dealer is at FUN and quite likely the coin I stumbled upon tonight as well. I put forth that I will buy it at the stated price with no haggles. I would still understand if there was someone in line ahead of me, down payment or not. I'm just putting myself in the other guy's shoes who is interested in the coin.

But they could've called you back when they had the information instead of putting you on hold.

pennyannie · January 5, 2016 12:18PM

When you called the sales person should have told you the coin was sold after being placed on hold, on approval this morning, last night etc. If the deal feel thru would you still be interested? If so please leave me your name and phone number.

I would not be irked at all

Walkerfan · January 5, 2016 12:19PM

Originally posted by: amwldcoin The dealer should have just told you it was on hold or out to another customer for approval.

This would have alleviated a lot of the bad feelings.

It should have been worded better by seller IMHO.

Wabbit2313 · January 5, 2016 12:23PM

Originally posted by: coindeuce
I expressed my disapproval of the way this matter was being handled.

Because a dealer is ethical enough to honor his commitment to show the coin to someone else? Your "expressed disapproval" certainly qualifies as rude and ignorant. Your introduction of the person answering the phone also is rude.

ms70 · January 5, 2016 12:23PM

Originally posted by: pennyannie

When you called the sales person should have told you the coin was sold after being placed on hold, on approval this morning, last night etc. If the deal feel thru would you still be interested? If so please leave me your name and phone number.

That would've been the most professional way for the business to handle it.

Barndog · January 5, 2016 12:25PM

if I really wanted the coin, I'd find someone who was going to the show and see if he could buy it for me at the show...for a discount too!

Topdollarpaid · January 5, 2016 1:28PM

It sounds like they told someone they would bring it to the show and show it to them.

It would be nice if they pulled it from there web site for sure

leothelyon · January 5, 2016 1:29PM

These setups don't always pan out like, what if the guy doesn't show up for the looksy? What if the dealer who put you on hold, did so, so he could call the other guy who expressed interest earlier. What if it was decided the coin would make the trip to FUN while he had you on hold? I think a deposit would be necessary if the dealer stands a chance of losing a sale at both ends. Hopefully the guy at FUN doesn't want it and this dealer calls you..........we know what you can tell him.

Leo

coindeuce · January 5, 2016 1:36PM

Originally posted by: Topdollarpaid
It sounds like they told someone they would bring it to the show and show it to them.

It would be nice if they pulled it from there web site for sure

BINGO!! Finally a sensible answer.
Thanks Topdollarpaid.

Cougar1978 · January 5, 2016 1:37PM

It would not bother me at all, its simply the nature of the coin business. The coin is no longer at that location but at the show. I do think if they have a real live one on the line hot to buy they need to contact the dealer to at least to alert him to a possible sale which is what I would expect from the office staff. He could then tell the shop to take your payment (assuming its card or eft) and hence he could set it aside excluded from the for sale inventory at the show as it is going to be shipped to you. In that scenario you would have beaten the other collector to the coin who may not even show up or even buy the coin in the event he attended the show.

If I were the dealer and especially if this was a big ticket coin, I would be really hacked if I missed a potential sale due to a communications disconnect. I think the staff should have said "we need to check with him to see if it is still available as it is at the show." Then they should have contacted the dealer about he potential sale. Then he could make a decision and take your payment and then set it aside or whatever. Or he could tell the staff to tell you "The coin has been set aside for a customer. If it does become available, we will let you know. Thank you for your interest."

With my I phone I can check my ebay store from a show if an item has sold online (or usually informed by messages).

lkeigwin · January 5, 2016 1:51PM

Today I emailed a dealer and asked him to show me a coin at FUN. Something I saw on his website that interested me.

I would hope, if someone else came along ready to buy it now, he would politely decline but perhaps promise to get back if I wan't interested.

Alternatively, the dealer might tell me now that he has another customer ready to buy and ask me to commit or pass.

I think either of these scenarios is proper and I would have no qualms about it. This is the way a good business should be run.

Lance.

P.S. Realtime website updates are not always possible.

Kaline6 · January 5, 2016 1:52PM

If you are still annoyed, their customer service is poor, period.

Coinosaurus · January 5, 2016 2:04PM

Dealer promised the show client "first shot" on a coin listed in inventory. I don't see why this is a problem, although the OP might be able to make a case that the dealer should have delisted the coin until the show client made a decision. If you have a several hundred coin inventory that is yet another detail you have deal with while preparing for a show - and it might easily get dropped.

If I was going to a show I would have no problem asking a dealer to do the same thing for something I was very interested in. But that is not a privilege you would want to abuse as a good client.

Justacommeman · January 5, 2016 2:12PM

It wouldn't have bothered me.

mark

Zoins · January 5, 2016 2:17PM

I think it's an understandable situation and it would not have bothered me. A prior commitment is a prior commitment.

Cecily Morgan:

You're only as good as your word and your word is only as good as your actions.

Unknown · January 5, 2016 2:27PM

This content has been removed.

pruebas · January 5, 2016 2:31PM

Originally posted by: dpoole

As in real estate, I'd just posit a verbal "back-up contract," i.e., let me take a look at it, if the first buyer doesn't close the deal.

Keep in mind that all contracts need to exchange consideration to be valid. Hence the backup contract would need to have a deposit to hold the coin.

BryceM · January 5, 2016 10:05PM

I find myself a bit surprised by the divergence of opinions here. In the end, what really bothered the OP was probably not that the coin wasn't available, but the way the inquiry was handled. Dealing with an employee who doesn't run the shop or make the decisions is often frustrating - nothing new there. Not being aware of the exact conversation, we only have one side of the story, and there isn't enough here to get me too excited.

Sometimes situations work out, and sometimes they don't. If the coin was so common that a suitable substitute was found in less than 24 hours, I don't understand all the angst. Also, where is the requirement stated that a potential buyer needs to put down $$ for a dealer to hold a coin for them? Dealers have sometimes extended this courtesy to me, and it's always appreciated.

BillJones · January 5, 2016 10:35PM

As a dealer, you have an obligation to allow the first potential buyer who expresses interest a specific item to see it if you have made that commitment to him or her. You were next in line, and you are going to have to wait. I know this answer won't make you happy, but that's the way I would handle it if I were the dealer in question.

Some dealers might take the position that they will grab the first dollar that comes along, but that does not endear them to customers who have a right to see an item before they buy it.

oih82w8 · January 5, 2016 10:46PM

Originally posted by: coindeuce

Originally posted by: Topdollarpaid

It sounds like they told someone they would bring it to the show and show it to them.

It would be nice if they pulled it from there web site for sure

BINGO!! Finally a sensible answer. Even the jerk wasn't wise enough to rub his two brain cells together for the best reply here yet.

Thanks Topdollarpaid.

I find this really irritating as well...if it is not available, take it off the site or at least identify the coin as being SOLD / HOLD / etc...

asheland · January 6, 2016 1:43AM

I find this really irritating as well...if it is not available, take it off the site or at least identify the coin as being SOLD / HOLD / etc...

jerseycat101 · January 6, 2016 1:50AM

Without knowing the dealer, in it impossible to know how easily a coin can be marked as "HOLD" or "SOLD". We also don't know the duration of time between when the dealer promised the first customer he would bring it to the show, to when the OP here called the dealer.

Regardless, it's a rather trivial complaint.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 6, 2016 2:49AM

Some of the issues that face us with technology is that things on pages are not products in hand. And with coins, there's only one like the one you describe.

TomB · January 6, 2016 9:50AM

It seems to me that the irritation is, or perhaps should be, primarily directed to how the phone conversation was handled. In other words, the internal communication within the dealership affected the external communication with a potential client.

However, I would strongly disagree with the idea that any coin that someone has an interest in should be de-listed. I know how this works; the dealer de-lists a coin when someone expresses interest and then when the potential client finds out he needs a new hot water heater, remembers his property taxes are due, has a pet with a medial emergency or finds another coin he wants more then the coin in question is no longer requested and, when it is re-listed on the website, all sorts of other potential clients think it is a reject that was returned. Therefore, it can become tainted.

Davideo · January 6, 2016 2:14PM

Originally posted by: TomB
It seems to me that the irritation is, or perhaps should be, primarily directed to how the phone conversation was handled. In other words, the internal communication within the dealership affected the external communication with a potential client.

However, I would strongly disagree with the idea that any coin that someone has an interest in should be de-listed. I know how this works; the dealer de-lists a coin when someone expresses interest and then when the potential client finds out he needs a new hot water heater, remembers his property taxes are due, has a pet with a medial emergency or finds another coin he wants more then the coin in question is no longer requested and, when it is re-listed on the website, all sorts of other potential clients think it is a reject that was returned. Therefore, it can become tainted.

I think Tom hit the nail on the head. The sales folks should have been able to more quickly communicate that the coin was on hold and would contact the the OP if the coin became available. However, keeping a website with hundred or thousands of coins accurate up to the minute is a surprisingly time consuming task.

What would your position be in this situation ?

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