Is an altered coin considered a counterfeit?

TopographicOceans · November 17, 2015 7:05AM

For an example with 1853 Seated Liberty coins, there are two varieties - without and with arrows at the date.

The value of an 1853 uncirculated Seated Liberty dime without arrows is worth about three times than one with arrows.

So people will grind off arrows and sell it as the No Arrows variety.
It is still a genuine US coin, but has been altered. Is it a countereit or what term would you use to describe it?

FredWeinberg · November 17, 2015 7:13AM

Altered/Damaged/BOA

Take your choice - (BOA = Buffed Off Arrows)

I would not call it a counterfeit, although I suppose

some would say it could be called a counterfeit variety;

still, it's not a counterfeit to my definition.

guitarwes · November 17, 2015 7:16AM

In your case, it's an altered coin, or counterfeit variety.

A genuine coin is always a genuine coin any and all the time.

AMRC · November 17, 2015 7:19AM

Great question. The answer is, "it depends." I had one situation in which a coin, was graded as "Genuine" with "Extensive Repairs" on it by one grading house but they would not (and this is a recent situation) put a details grade on it. When we tried to cross the coin to the other side of the street, the coins was even considered genuine, I assume due to the extensiveness of the repair. The coin was a rarity by anyone's standards, and was quite significantly repaired, so the whole thing was quite fascinating to watch unfold. Sot I guess, at some point, and alteration can cease to make a coin worthy of a "genuine" designation. Not always, but sometimes.

CaptHenway · November 17, 2015 7:49AM

Altered.

coinkat · November 17, 2015 7:53AM

I agree with CaptHenway

AUandAG · November 17, 2015 8:05AM

Here is an altered date 1853 Quarter with arrows and rays (but no arrows!)

Can't fool anyone with this example as they forgot to smooth the rays on the reverse!

bob

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1853-S...2f4:g:e4UAAOSw3xJVa3RR

PTVETTER · November 17, 2015 9:10AM

Was it produced by the US Mint?

It may have been altered but not counterfeit .

golden · November 17, 2015 9:43AM

Originally posted by: guitarwes
In your case, it's an altered coin, or counterfeit variety.

A genuine coin is always a genuine coin any and all the time.

winky · November 17, 2015 10:22AM

Yes it is only altered.

FredF · November 17, 2015 11:26AM

Definitely not counterfeit - you could still use it to pay your taxes and the government would honor it at face value

TwoSides2aCoin · November 17, 2015 1:49PM

Not counterfeit. Spurious.

savoyspecial · November 17, 2015 3:10PM

It depends on the extent of the alteration.....I think the word 'counterfeit' got used quite a bit to describe Daniel Carr's altered Peace Dollars

TopographicOceans · November 17, 2015 3:27PM

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
Not counterfeit. Spurious.

I like Spurious.
Now we don't need to invent a new word.

ricko · November 18, 2015 12:26AM

Altered, not counterfeit....Cheers, RickO

ColonelJessup · November 18, 2015 12:29AM

Originally posted by: FredWeinberg
Altered/Damaged/BOA

Take your choice - (BOA = Buffed Off Arrows)

I would not call it a counterfeit, although I suppose
some would say it could be called a counterfeit variety;
still, it's not a counterfeit to my definition.

While Fred might not claim this, I, and the vast majority of dealers, would agree; his "definitions" are definitive.

Sloppy languaging on the part of others sometimes blurs the line. A quick look at various "details" designations from our hosts will shed much light.......

Hydrant · November 18, 2015 1:21AM

I don't think so.

asheland · November 18, 2015 2:28AM

Altered

TwoSides2aCoin · November 18, 2015 3:00AM

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
Not counterfeit. Spurious.

I like Spurious.
Now we don't need to invent a new word.

Language is funnier than intent until it's not funny.
I could add color or take it away. That's altered, too.
And it's natural. That's what the natural man does: gravitating to science, language, the arts, math, etc.,

johnny9434 · November 18, 2015 5:04AM

Originally posted by: coinkat
I agree with CaptHenway

+1

Is an altered coin considered a counterfeit?

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