Why are there so many thieves in the coin hobby?
abcde12345
Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
Almost everyday I read how a coin collector or dealer is a victim. Either his car is broken into on the way home from a coin show or his shop is burglarized.
Then you have auction sites where so many coins are mislabeled along with fake coins sold with fake stories.
Are collectors gullible and easy targets? Are coin people too trusting?
Why is there so much crime and larceny involved in this hobby?
Then you have auction sites where so many coins are mislabeled along with fake coins sold with fake stories.
Are collectors gullible and easy targets? Are coin people too trusting?
Why is there so much crime and larceny involved in this hobby?
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Comments
in the world, not just numis.
the propensity for higher than average violent crime is what boggles my mind.
the risk of significantly increasing incarceration time for the benefit of no witnesses/easier theft just doesnt seem like a wise investment. imo
no one said human behavior or crime especially is logical on average.
how do those that squander/abscond with millions of investors money still remain able to repeatedly do so.
the list goes on and on.
why do forum members insist on anonymity? tons of questions in this life remain unanswered.
.
Almost everyday I read how a coin collector or dealer is a victim. Either his car is broken into on the way home from a coin show or his shop is burglarized.
Then you have auction sites where so many coins are mislabeled along with fake coins sold with fake stories.
Are collectors gullible and easy targets? Are coin people too trusting?
Why is there so much crime and larceny involved in this hobby?
Simply put; because there is so much worth stealing.
Where is the joy in that?
Simply put; because there is so much worth stealing.
This!
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
Then you're stuck warehousing them in a bank vault without the privilege of looking at them.
Where is the joy in that?
Install a proper safe, and security to go with it, and enjoy them at home.
Lance.
Here is another form of robbery. A collector friend of mine in the coin club just passed away last week. He was getting in bad shape, and couldn't see. A dealer he knows, came by a week before he died and sold him a bunch of crap, I mean low end C- quality coins in slabs at exhorbant prices. He took advantage of him, based on the fact he knew he could no longer see, and there was some kind of implied trust the collector had with this dealer. I saw the 4 coins that he sold him for the first time sunday and they were pure crap. about 12k worth that I will be lucky to get 5k out of.
This is so sad and unacceptible. Is there any way to put this jerk's name out there and put him on the do not deal with list?
Here is another form of robbery. A collector friend of mine in the coin club just passed away last week. He was getting in bad shape, and couldn't see. A dealer he knows, came by a week before he died and sold him a bunch of crap, I mean low end C- quality coins in slabs at exhorbant prices. He took advantage of him, based on the fact he knew he could no longer see, and there was some kind of implied trust the collector had with this dealer. I saw the 4 coins that he sold him for the first time sunday and they were pure crap. about 12k worth that I will be lucky to get 5k out of.
Someone like this should no be able to continue to hide in the shadows. If he did this to a valued customer with implied trust think about what they are doing to others. Taking advantage of someone on their death bed is inexcusable.
As for crime it is everywhere even in the bad parts of town. Crime in the bad parts of town is just carried out differently and most people do not call the cops because they know they won't do anything anyway.
Here is another form of robbery. A collector friend of mine in the coin club just passed away last week. He was getting in bad shape, and couldn't see. A dealer he knows, came by a week before he died and sold him a bunch of crap, I mean low end C- quality coins in slabs at exhorbant prices. He took advantage of him, based on the fact he knew he could no longer see, and there was some kind of implied trust the collector had with this dealer. I saw the 4 coins that he sold him for the first time sunday and they were pure crap. about 12k worth that I will be lucky to get 5k out of.
maybe the estate can sell them back to the dealer and get $1K
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Add in small, portable, easily-stolen items of great value, and the temptation is natural for them.
I don't think the proportion of thieves in this hobby is that bad, compared to some others. Take militaria, for example. I once read somewhere that about half (?) - some staggering and unverifiable statistic like that- of the Civil War items on the market are fakes.
While it certainly has it's share, so do all other venues of collectibles. Thieves are out to make
an easy buck wherever they can - either by deception or outright robbery.
As far as abcde12345's comment
Cheers, RickO
Finding this repeater Dollar Bill (third one down L19111911D, ricko would appreciate this one) with a special serial number is probably a sign;
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Since we focus on numismatics, it has the appearance of being overly infested with thieves.
While it certainly has it's share, so do all other venues of collectibles. Thieves are out to make
an easy buck wherever they can - either by deception or outright robbery.
As far as abcde12345's comment
Cheers, RickO
My YouTube Channel
Wholesale vs. retail now where is the theft.
Whoa...I can definitely relate to this!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Money makes people do strange things. You probably already knew that.
the root of all evil. people (like relatives) see green and sometimes blood
Why are the rich neighborhoods in my town the ones that always get burglarized, while the ghetto neighborhoods have almost zero burglary rate? Answer: where there is money, thieves will go to steal. Nothing appeals to a thief like a bourse floor with $100M of portable wealth sitting around in little glass cases.
An alternate hypothesis is that crimes against black people get underpoliced. #2
Ed. S.
(EJS)
I do not use an SDB.... I have an excellent safe, my home is secure with various devices and alarms. I look at my coins all the time and do not worry.
Cheers, RickO
My home security device looks more like Rin-Tin-Tin. But my coins are in an SDB anyway.
Money makes people do strange things. You probably already knew that.
the root of all evil. people (like relatives) see green and sometimes blood
Actually, the quote is "the love for money is the root of all evil" from Shakespeare. Money is an inanimate object and thus can't be evil.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's more fun to build one, in my opinion. Look up the stealth arms 1911 aluminum frame and phantom jig. Then hit eBay for a rock island armory kit for $300-$350 9mm,10mm,38,45acp.
Building 1911 is so much fun. Glocks are cool too, less refining. 556/223/300 AAC BO is hands down easiest, meanest looking and with 6"-20" barrels, that's versatile!
This reminded me to ask, @ricko is there any danger to coins being stored with quality ammo? Danger as in bad toning or corrosion?
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Barriers to entry are low and, at least, around Seattle and some other cities, a certain viewpoint is prevalent that makes it so criminals get off quickly and lightly usually.
Not a coin crime, but a recent instance of crime here had a "homeless" person breaking and entering into a boathouse, being "confronted" and asked to leave, and then macing and attacking the person who owned the place who asked him to leave.
The owner protected himself, and police came. Due to "dropped ball", even though arresting officer put down person was armed and dangerous and shouldn't be released, the attacker was let out and no charge will be filed. Doesn't matter he had a deadly weapon (knife). Doesn't matter person would testify against him and press charges. Doesn't matter it wasn't his first offense.
So, getting back to the coin thefts, or worse.......crooks know more about the law and where they can skate than law abiding citizens. When there are no real punishments, why not become a crook and get money in an easier way than the hardworking person you are stealing from?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The Willy Sutton principle.
I've actually seen Ricko shoot at people to scare them off his front porch. Can't be too safe I guess. At the time I thought it to excessive but I got used to it in time.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Interesting. I always wondered why there wasnt more. The first time I walked into a major show and looked around I wondered how many of these get robbed every year. There were two-three old armed guards and wide open rear doors.
A couple of guys with enough fire power could be in and out within minutes with hundreds of thousands in gold.
The little local shows are worse. There might be one guard who looks like he's on Social Security and probably hasnt fired his gun since Johnson was President.
I use a Taurus Judge to protect my coins !
Actually, the Apostle Paul was inspired to write those words in his letter to St. Timothy (in 1 Timothy 6:10) long before Shakespeare quoted it... but you are correct; it's the LOVE of money that deceives and tempts us to do evil to obtain it.
- Jim
Some good points there, people shouldn't covet what others have as that leads to unjust actions like theft. I got into numismatics and precious metals as I knew I didn't want to be involved with the Wall Street greed, but it's everywhere just as good intentions are pervasive. Probably in the West we have more of this due to overabundance, it can be hard to keep perspective.
@Aspie_Rocco.... I have stored coins in a safe with firearms and ammunition for 43 years... no issues... no tarnish.... and the firearms are fine as well....
Cheers, RickO
Some people are litigious too.
"Are collectors gullible and easy targets? Are coin people too trusting?"
It's Mutton's Law. Baa... Baa.....
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Crime in all areas of life is rampant IMO .
We really only notice it when it occurs in the little 'world' that we live in
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Coins are small, easily transported and in many cases hard to trace after they have "fenced" following a theft. That's why they are so often the target of burglaries and the like.
We really only notice it when it occurs in the little 'world' that we live in
Many things whistle over my head. Recently I was surprised to learn that I dealer I knew for many years, who had passed on a coupld of years ago, was heavy into cocaine while I knew him. Sure fooled me.
Actually, crime is not as 'rampant' as many believe....violent crime has been on a downward trend for a number of years. Much depends on where one lives of course - inner cities certainly are crime ridden. Cheers, RickO
I'm glad the Internet killed the shady crusty scam artist B&M. One guy near me is closing I laughed haha.