Washed out on Long Beach
erwindoc
Posts: 5,286 ✭✭✭✭✭
I went 0/2 on my first round of Heritage auctions. I put in strong bids, but someone wanted them more. Anyone get lucky with their bids?
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Mike
Probably better off, so I can apply the "extra" to bailing a couple of "Lay-A-Way".
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I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best.
As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up.
I'm sure Heritage and the consignor appreciate my efforts.
<< <i>At my latest local club meeting, Randy Campbell, who is president of FUN and a chief grader at ICG, commented that the coin market is really slow right now, at least for the dealers. Yet the prices at these auctions roar on as if we are in a super bull market. Part of the problem is that a lot dealers don't seem to have very much good stuff to offer from their inventory. All the good stuff seems to be in the auctions.
I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best.
As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up. >>
Interesting observations, and something I've pondered as well. If this trend intensifies it will make it even harder for dealers to compete to obtain material.
Well fast forward to yesterday and as I was looking at a dealers box of "wholesale" coins, I pull out several that I was bidding on. I think he was a bit surprised when I recognized the coins. I think that the comment by BillJones is right on point. Dealers are searching for better inventory and paying up at auction to try and find quality coins. This is driving up realized prices and making it more difficult for the collector to buy the coins they need or want at auction.
My Ebay Store
<< <i>
<< <i>At my latest local club meeting, Randy Campbell, who is president of FUN and a chief grader at ICG, commented that the coin market is really slow right now, at least for the dealers. Yet the prices at these auctions roar on as if we are in a super bull market. Part of the problem is that a lot dealers don't seem to have very much good stuff to offer from their inventory. All the good stuff seems to be in the auctions.
I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best.
As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up. >>
Interesting observations, and something I've pondered as well. If this trend intensifies it will make it even harder for dealers to compete to obtain material. >>
NONE OF THIS IS NEWS!!!
THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR A LONG TIME NOW!
I have been saying for years that most dealers try to rip people off and if you have quality material to sell then the ONLY place to take it is directly to auction. Why some people want to FLUSH A TON OF MONEY DOWN THE TOILET is beyond me. For quality material, the only thing a GreySheet is good for is to start a fire.
People have started to realize that they have been ripped off by far too many dealers and they too are
able to participate in auctions over the last 10+ years...Knowledge is Power and people are learning this faster than ever.
Why do you want to sell to a dealer when you KNOW he is going to turn around and sell it for more? It makes no sense!
Great Collections...super low fees in every facet. Just go there to sell quality material. Some junk will even do well there.
Other stuff is dumped on eBay. Melt is always sold locally or at shows to dealers to avoid shipping etc.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>
<< <i>That is why it sometimes pays to have a dealer who can be there for you help you. We got every coin we wanted and ones that went stupid we knew when to cut out. >>
So how can a dealer make any difference in my getting a coin or not or getting it at the price I am happy with is beyond me. >>
Especially when all his top customers come first and we are all after same coins. This is my constant battle.
Getting mad over loosing a old auction again~I need help!
Looks like I'll be going to shows and pay the premium for those that I can see personally.
Actually that has worked out better for me for the last 15 years
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>So how can a dealer make any difference in my getting a coin or not or getting it at the price I am happy with is beyond me. >>
The only way would be through some type of collusion. If he is going to buy the coin at any price and you are the only other bidder, you are better off not bidding at all and buying it from him with his markup I guess. Easier said than done for sure!
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
As for HA Long Beach; I watched the Walkers go off last night and prices were more down to Earth than at the Chicago ANA. I didn't bid on anything, though.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
<< <i>
<< <i>That is why it sometimes pays to have a dealer who can be there for you help you. We got every coin we wanted and ones that went stupid we knew when to cut out. >>
So how can a dealer make any difference in my getting a coin or not or getting it at the price I am happy with is beyond me. >>
Alan, first of all, you don't know what you are really getting unless someone actually looks at the coin. Notice the auction rules, and you'll see that they now all do not allow returns of slabbed material. The price difference between a mistake in a holder and a shot coin in said holder can be huge.
A small rep fee can save you thousands of dollars from making a big mistake.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>At my latest local club meeting, Randy Campbell, who is president of FUN and a chief grader at ICG, commented that the coin market is really slow right now, at least for the dealers. Yet the prices at these auctions roar on as if we are in a super bull market. Part of the problem is that a lot dealers don't seem to have very much good stuff to offer from their inventory. All the good stuff seems to be in the auctions.
I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best.
As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up. >>
Interesting observations, and something I've pondered as well. If this trend intensifies it will make it even harder for dealers to compete to obtain material. >>
NONE OF THIS IS NEWS!!!
THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR A LONG TIME NOW!
I have been saying for years that most dealers try to rip people off and if you have quality material to sell then the ONLY place to take it is directly to auction. Why some people want to FLUSH A TON OF MONEY DOWN THE TOILET is beyond me. For quality material, the only thing a GreySheet is good for is to start a fire.
People have started to realize that they have been ripped off by far too many dealers and they too are
able to participate in auctions over the last 10+ years...Knowledge is Power and people are learning this faster than ever.
Why do you want to sell to a dealer when you KNOW he is going to turn around and sell it for more? It makes no sense!
Great Collections...super low fees in every facet. Just go there to sell quality material. Some junk will even do well there.
Other stuff is dumped on eBay. Melt is always sold locally or at shows to dealers to avoid shipping etc. >>
1) The material that interests me is rarely at Great Collections.
2) Unless you or someone you trust actually view a particular coin, you don't really know what you are getting.
3) I have developed relationships in this industry that occasionally find me great coins at reasonable prices. Ie., I got an AU 53 Bust Dollar with original skin because the dealer who had the coin would rather sell it to me, knowing I would not destroy its originality for "fun and profit," by dipping it and trying to get it into a more expensive holder.
There are not many dealers like this, but there are a few with whom you can develop relationships that will work with you and not rip you off.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>At my latest local club meeting, Randy Campbell, who is president of FUN and a chief grader at ICG, commented that the coin market is really slow right now, at least for the dealers. Yet the prices at these auctions roar on as if we are in a super bull market. Part of the problem is that a lot dealers don't seem to have very much good stuff to offer from their inventory. All the good stuff seems to be in the auctions.
I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best.
As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up. >>
Interesting observations, and something I've pondered as well. If this trend intensifies it will make it even harder for dealers to compete to obtain material. >>
NONE OF THIS IS NEWS!!!
THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR A LONG TIME NOW!
I have been saying for years that most dealers try to rip people off and if you have quality material to sell then the ONLY place to take it is directly to auction. Why some people want to FLUSH A TON OF MONEY DOWN THE TOILET is beyond me. For quality material, the only thing a GreySheet is good for is to start a fire.
People have started to realize that they have been ripped off by far too many dealers and they too are
able to participate in auctions over the last 10+ years...Knowledge is Power and people are learning this faster than ever.
Why do you want to sell to a dealer when you KNOW he is going to turn around and sell it for more? It makes no sense!
Great Collections...super low fees in every facet. Just go there to sell quality material. Some junk will even do well there.
Other stuff is dumped on eBay. Melt is always sold locally or at shows to dealers to avoid shipping etc. >>
1) The material that interests me is rarely at Great Collections.
2) Unless you or someone you trust actually view a particular coin, you don't really know what you are getting.
3) I have developed relationships in this industry that occasionally find me great coins at reasonable prices. Ie., I got an AU 53 Bust Dollar with original skin because the dealer who had the coin would rather sell it to me, knowing I would not destroy its originality for "fun and profit," by dipping it and trying to get it into a more expensive holder.
There are not many dealers like this, but there are a few with whom you can develop relationships that will work with you and not rip you off. >>
Thankfully I was very careful when choosing my words and I did NOT say all dealers.
If GC does not work or have the material, I would think HA would, more often than not but
most of what I was talking about was with regards to people selling, not buying.
When buying, you have to find the items of interest wherever you can.
When it comes to selling, I am more interested in ME and the relationships I have with my family
instead of some nice dealer that I have built a business relationship with that wants to make
money off of me when I sell.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Unless you are selling directly to the buyer of your coin(s), a third party will be making money from you. How much depends on the coin, the relationship between the parties, and the degree one party wants the transaction to take place more than the other.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
For this reason I just don't play in that arena.
<< <i>When it comes to selling, I am more interested in ME and the relationships I have with my family instead of some nice dealer that I have built a business relationship with that wants to make money off of me when I sell.
Unless you are selling directly to the buyer of your coin(s), a third party will be making money from you. How much depends on the coin, the relationship between the parties, and the degree one party wants the transaction to take place more than the other. >>
My point is that it is NOT necessary for any 3rd party to make much of anything! If you look at the fees to sell coins at GC, especially for coins over $1K, you will see that the fees are miniscule and the buyer's premium for the person buying the coin is also very small in comparison to other auction houses which allows those bidding to bid higher. If you have quality material where there is a strong demand, like I did when I sold my Top Pop Merc Varieties etc...then every last cent is received. There is no back of bid crap. There is no GreySheet crap. There is no discussion about previous auction results of similar items. There is no haggling. There is no dealer getting their cut. There is no trying to convince a dealer that your coins are of higher quality than others that have sold recently. It is plain and simple, the items sell for the strong money that they are worth and the consignor gets all their money.
Beyond that, if you have really strong quality material(as viewed by HA) and want to sell via HA, then things have been known to be negotiated in the past where the consignor gets 105% or even 107.5% of the sale price...so even with the higher BP, it is still possible to do well.
Just for reference at GC.
The lowest seller's fees - 0% for coins that realize over $1,000 or 5% for coins $1,000 or under
Listing fees:
Coins started at $1-$99 have a listing fee of $3
Coins started at $100-$999 have a listing fee of $5
Coins started at $1,000 and up have a listing fee of $10
That's it really! Many of my coins sold for over $1K and I even started a lot of them at $1 so I did quite well.
The people that build collections of common stuff that is of average to low demand will likely have problems no matter what they do. I always try my best to avoid that scenario like the plague.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>At my latest local club meeting, Randy Campbell, who is president of FUN and a chief grader at ICG, commented that the coin market is really slow right now, at least for the dealers. Yet the prices at these auctions roar on as if we are in a super bull market. Part of the problem is that a lot dealers don't seem to have very much good stuff to offer from their inventory. All the good stuff seems to be in the auctions. >>
Is this healthy for the coin market? As a dealer in this kind of market do you have to build up a strong clientel that will pay premiums for nice coins?
Does this also hold for specialty dealers like CRO and DWN as well?
<< <i>I too got blown out in my last U.S. coin auction bids. I was not even close despite that fact that I bid based upon the "Coin Facts" quote and recent auction results. I think that the people who are bidding as much as double or more the "Coin Facts" numbers for coins that are not exceptional are nuts. It's disappointing to get blow out, but perhaps it is for the best. >>
Perhaps prices will be more reasonable in a few years?
<< <i>As for this Long Beach sale, I've placed a "dark side" bid. It will be interesting to see if it holds up. >>
Good idea and good luck!