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Help a non-coin person w/ value of bank-sealed Morgan Dollar Rolls
kencope
Posts: 416 ✭✭
First off, i know nothing about the value of coins. I'm a card collector. I was contacted by what looks to be a very reputable coin dealer who is interested in a very high end sports card that I own. He has offered me a trade proposal, which I'd prefer to keep confidential. My question is this: He is offering me in trade a choice of a certain amount of these "bank sealed rolls" (examples below). Many of them already have quite high bids on them. I have no reason to doubt these as valid bids, but would love some opinions on value from the coin community here, just to make me feel at ease. Here are some of the auction links:
Auction 1
Auction 2
Auction 3
Auction 4
He has a few other rolls listed, but you get the hint. Any value opinions from the community would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!
Auction 1
Auction 2
Auction 3
Auction 4
He has a few other rolls listed, but you get the hint. Any value opinions from the community would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!
0
Comments
This will be what happens to you.
Amazing how the original Bank Wrapped rolls JUST happened to have a nice front (or back) of what MIGHT be a desirable coin that NO ONE ever opened, and the rest of the roll is filled with common worn out junk.
You can be the next one.
RUN!!
My question was solely in response to value as is. The bids on several of these are already well over $10,000 per roll. Is that normal/expected? Just trying to get a good value range for what the rolls would be worth. thanks!
If I can get to an appropriate high/low value range in my head, I can be more informed on his offer. Thanks again!
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I had not seen his neutral feedbacks, but have now reviewed them.
I have no idea what "BU" or au58, or any of those terms mean. I don't even know what a Morgan Dollar is. For all I know, a roll of 20 Morgan Dollars in any condition could be worth $10,000, or could be worth $5. I have no idea, which is exactly why I'm asking.
I'm just asking for a value opinion on what you see, as I see sold prices of these exact rolls ranging from $3,000-$10,000 each and current auctions at prices of over $10,000 each.
If you think all of that is out of line, and these rolls are worth $10 each, just say so.
No reason to talk disrespectfully (Realone). Thanks for those that replied!
<< <i>Surely you wouldn't sell something of that value based on the assumption that the rolls were filled with gem BU examples? Would you accept a box that has an unknown number of $100 bills? It's a big box though.. >>
I would run from this "deal" as fast as possible.
Why can't he simply sell his rolls then pay you in cash for the cards he wants?
<< <i>You'll have to excuse my naivety when it comes to coins. Your responses are giving me way too much credit to my knowledge.
I had not seen his neutral feedbacks, but have now reviewed them.
I have no idea what "BU" or au58, or any of those terms mean. I don't even know what a Morgan Dollar is. For all I know, a roll of 20 Morgan Dollars in any condition could be worth $10,000, or could be worth $5. I have no idea, which is exactly why I'm asking.
I'm just asking for a value opinion on what you see, as I see sold prices of these exact rolls ranging from $3,000-$10,000 each and current auctions at prices of over $10,000 each.
If you think all of that is out of line, and these rolls are worth $10 each, just say so.
No reason to talk disrespectfully (Realone). Thanks for those that replied!
<< <i>Surely you wouldn't sell something of that value based on the assumption that the rolls were filled with gem BU examples? Would you accept a box that has an unknown number of $100 bills? It's a big box though.. >>
>>
Think of those rolls as a Chrysler with Bentley badges on the hood and trunk.
I see that he has neutral feedback on some items, but has absolutely no negative feedback, and has many positive feedbacks on these exact rolls at prices of around $3500 each.
The question that hasn't been answered yet that I'm hoping to get answered:
What's the downside risk? Again, I don't even know what a "morgan dollar" is. If these are in fact filled with a bunch of junk morgan dollars from those years in the middle, with the two that are visible on the end, what would be the approximate value?
Thanks!
<< <i>Just so you are aware, Washoe County Bank did not exist until 1896.
I would run from this "deal" as fast as possible. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>You'll have to excuse my naivety when it comes to coins. Your responses are giving me way too much credit to my knowledge.
I had not seen his neutral feedbacks, but have now reviewed them.
I have no idea what "BU" or au58, or any of those terms mean. I don't even know what a Morgan Dollar is. For all I know, a roll of 20 Morgan Dollars in any condition could be worth $10,000, or could be worth $5. I have no idea, which is exactly why I'm asking.
I'm just asking for a value opinion on what you see, as I see sold prices of these exact rolls ranging from $3,000-$10,000 each and current auctions at prices of over $10,000 each.
If you think all of that is out of line, and these rolls are worth $10 each, just say so.
No reason to talk disrespectfully (Realone). Thanks for those that replied!
<< <i>Surely you wouldn't sell something of that value based on the assumption that the rolls were filled with gem BU examples? Would you accept a box that has an unknown number of $100 bills? It's a big box though.. >>
>>
Think of those rolls as a Chrysler with Bentley badges on the hood and trunk. >>
Look at the paper on those rolls. It looks like they were recently disturbed, as I see non-oxidized paper "rings" between the otherwise antique looking rest of the rolls, like they were recently rolled. I would expect an original roll to have a much more even "antique" look. The odds that 100+ year old paper would still be intact enough to hold that much weight in silver dollars are low as well, and those end coins should be toned, (probably quite disgustingly by now) not white. Silver is extremely reactive.
If your sports card is really that valuable then you should consign it to a major sports card auction and generate real cash, not some silver dollar rolls you know nothing about.
Clarkbar - Thanks so much for being the only person to provide an answer to the question!! I really appreciate your time in doing so. If on the downside the middle 18 coins are worth $360, do you have any general estimate for the end coins? Again, greatly appreciate it.
<< <i>If you know nothing about the value of collectible coins then you should not even be considering such a trade until you gain knowledge of them. As this would take a long time and much effort I would advise you to pass on this deal.
If your sports card is really that valuable then you should consign it to a major sports card auction and generate real cash, not some silver dollar rolls you know nothing about. >>
<< <i>The risk you are taking is that 18 of those coins are worth about $20 each.
Look at the paper on those rolls. It looks like they were recently disturbed, as I see non-oxidized paper "rings" between the otherwise antique looking rest of the rolls, like they were recently rolled. I would expect an original roll to have a much more even "antique" look. The odds that 100+ year old paper would still be intact enough to hold that much weight in silver dollars are low as well, and those end coins should be toned, (probably quite disgustingly by now) not white. Silver is extremely reactive. >>
Figure $20x18 plus the 2 "salted" coins on each end. If you're lucky those are worth $50-$200 each. Figure $450 to $650 per roll. And that first like in the first post shows a circulated 1894 Morgan obverse. Not very likely someone was rolling these back in 1900-1907 and rolled up a circulated coin. This is basically a grab bag or pinata sale. The feedbacks are probably bolstered with shill bidders. All the seller needs is one unknowing person to bite and keep the items. If you file a negative report and claim there's only circulated junk in those middle 18 coins, the seller will say you took out all the good coins and replaced them with junk of your own. This will not end well for anyone that buys these "sealed" rolls. Only the seller wins. So you want to trade your high quality items for a grab bag sale?
Run Forrest run!
first auction bidding
Look at the bidding on that first roll. The last possible "real" bid was around $1200. Everything after that appears to be from 3 shills running it up A zero feed back shill, another one with 76 feedbacks, and the primary shiller with 927 feedbacks. I wouldn't base anything over $1200 on this bidding. That same shiller with 927 feedbacks is in some of the other auctions. And they enter just at the point where it's time to really run up the price. Don't any of these "people" know about "sniping" at the end rather than running themselves up?.....lol.
For the 1893 and 1894 coins, 1893 anything is a good year but again the value still vary a lot depending on the MM. They are probably both philadelphia coins. I'd be additionally wary of any dealer who calls a circulated (1894) coin "GEM BU" which alludes to a high and very valuable grade.
In each case, you have to assume the worst. So $160 times two (320) plus 18 times 20 (360) for a grand total of 680 for the CC end ones.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
What a friendly forum!
<< <i>291fifth - Thanks for your comment. My posting here is in effort to gain knowledge about them. I have no intention of selling this particular card at auction at this time. I evaluate all offers ; I think it would be stupid not to consider an offer that someone makes. Unfortunately, with this offer, i knew nothing about what was being offered to me, which is why I came to all of you fine collectors.
Clarkbar - Thanks so much for being the only person to provide an answer to the question!! I really appreciate your time in doing so. If on the downside the middle 18 coins are worth $360, do you have any general estimate for the end coins? Again, greatly appreciate it. >>
The middle 18 could be Ike dollars, worth $1 each, and that's what I would assume they are. The buyer can't prove it without destroying the evidence that the roll is wrapped. The end coin dated 1894 is probably a nice AU 1894-O or 94-S, worth $400. The CC coins on the end are probably dated 1882-84, worth about $200 each, and released from the treasury in the early 1970s. As others have mentioned, this is a pretty old scam, and the seller seems to be trying to find people outside the coin collecting circles to pull it on.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
The 1894 coin will be an S mint, worth around $750.
The 1893 coin will be a P mint, worth around $700.
IF the 18 coins in the middle are Morgans they will be generic circulated coins worth roughly $20 each.
Total value of the roll, assuming the two end coins don't have problems (cleaning, damage, etc. that cuts their value by half or more) -- just over $1,800. If the 18 coins in the middle are Ike dollars, then the value drops to less than $1,500.
Who ever "wins" that auction in 5-figure territory is going to lose big-time.
<< <i>I'll take a stab at auction link #1:
The 1894 coin will be an S mint, worth around $750.
The 1893 coin will be a P mint, worth around $700.
IF the 18 coins in the middle are Morgans they will be generic circulated coins worth roughly $20 each.
Total value of the roll, assuming the two end coins don't have problems (cleaning, damage, etc. that cuts their value by half or more) -- just over $1,800. If the 18 coins in the middle are Ike dollars, then the value drops to less than $1,500.
Who ever "wins" that auction in 5-figure territory is going to lose big-time. >>
Those values would be in line with the bidders at the $1200 level. Still a risk though because you don't know if the other side of those 2 end coins aren't damaged to make them net out at a much lower grade and value. If I owned an 1894-0 with an AU58 obverse and a horribly cleaned reverse with a few deep scratches, this is the guy that can use it. They only need one side nice.
Still a big gamble even at $1200. Let the seller show you every coin in those rolls that he is willing to trade with. That's the only way to do this fairly. Show every coin....don't hide 18 of them and only show one side of the other 2. Tell that dealer you want his rolls....but only for sports cards "packs" of 20 where the 2 ends are exposed. See what they think of that......lol.
Tell him you will "trade" your valuable card for cash or a check drawn on good US funds. You are being scammed.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>You'll have to excuse my naivety when it comes to coins. Your responses are giving me way too much credit to my knowledge.
I had not seen his neutral feedbacks, but have now reviewed them.
I have no idea what "BU" or au58, or any of those terms mean. I don't even know what a Morgan Dollar is. For all I know, a roll of 20 Morgan Dollars in any condition could be worth $10,000, or could be worth $5. I have no idea, which is exactly why I'm asking.
I'm just asking for a value opinion on what you see, as I see sold prices of these exact rolls ranging from $3,000-$10,000 each and current auctions at prices of over $10,000 each.
If you think all of that is out of line, and these rolls are worth $10 each, just say so.
No reason to talk disrespectfully (Realone). Thanks for those that replied!
<< <i>Surely you wouldn't sell something of that value based on the assumption that the rolls were filled with gem BU examples? Would you accept a box that has an unknown number of $100 bills? It's a big box though.. >>
>>
Sounds like you have a great deal of expertise when it comes to cards, unfortunately the coin world can be full of scams that the uninformed fall prey to. I would be very careful.
I have some fake stuff for trade also. Let's make a deal baby!
Run.
If they're so valuable, let him sell them and pay you cash for your items.
not hand wrapped rolls as would be expected in that time frame. I would suspect that if these rolls are not
faked, rolls but actually came from the Washoe County Bank, they would have been made after the mid
1930's. That's when machine wrapping really began in banks.
Up until the mid 30's there were ten and twenty dollar gold pieces in circulation that would take the place
of rolls of dollars. Most dollars were "bagged" not rolled. If you went to the bank with a $100 bill and
needed it changed you would not get rolls of silver dollars back. You would get gold and maybe if you
asked, a roll could be provided.
bob
PS: I would value his rolls at $400-$500.
I doubt these coins are original rolls, but if they are, they will be common dates and mintmarks. Just my opinion.
<< <i>If I bought one of those rolls and opened it up,it would consist of coins worth $20-30 apiece.Maybe you will get lucky. >>
So why is the seller's eBay feedback not reflecting this or are the buyers not opening the rolls?
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
lots of good people would trade upfront good items for good cards.
Thanks to all of those that did provide an education and answered my question with their educated opinion on the value of something that I've made very clear i know nothing about. The response from others is discouraging, but I guess not all that surprising in this day and age.
And I think you meant "Dude, if you're on the boards"
<< <i>Dude, if your on the boards asking for opinions about whether an item allegedly in excess of $10K is a good or fair deal....you are, at best, clearly in WAAAYYYYY over your head, and at worst are a shill or are part of the scam yourself. I'm surprised you got as many responses from forum members as you have given how transparently ridiculous the original question and proposition is. >>
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Dude, if your on the boards asking for opinions about whether an item allegedly in excess of $10K is a good or fair deal....you are, at best, clearly in WAAAYYYYY over your head, and at worst are a shill or are part of the scam yourself. I'm surprised you got as many responses from forum members as you have given how transparently ridiculous the original question and proposition is. >>
Yeah, probably this.
An "expert" in cards, or any other collectible knows the games, the scams, overgrading, etc. It's all the basic stuff learned over the years through the school of hard knocks. It doesn't even matter what area of collectibles. No one can be an expert in anything and come here asking about the "value" of sealed rolls bid at $12,000.....with a straight face. Yes, no different than a Fleer pack with rookie Jordans on each end. Clearly, the OP is no expert if these questions are for real.
<< <i>given how transparently ridiculous the original question and proposition is. >>
I said the same thing only not is so many words.
<< <i>Kencope, think of these rolls as the equivalent of raw Mantle or Jordan RCs~the illusion is there, but usually the reality is not. >>
The question has already been answered by some kind individuals. I've told the offerer to make me a cash offer instead. I appreciate everyone's time.
<< <i>Kencope, think of these rolls as the equivalent of raw Mantle or Jordan RCs. >>
If you were to open the roll and found nothing but common date $20 Morgan's you would have no recourse. He would say you supplied the "worthless" 18 coins.
Even PayPal, which would make you whole, wouldn't come in to play because you are trading not using PayPal.
You don't have to know anything more about Morgan's to know this is a losing proposition.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts