I am not an enabler. If your original post was honest and sincere, you definitely need to hear some 'tough love'. Your lack of knowledge CANNOT be cured with a 3 or 4 sentence response from an expert. That's my opinion. You don't have to take it; or like it; but I hold it pretty firmly. Good luck.
I completely get that. My question was either missed or ignored by many. To use your analogy, my question would be "what is a stack of 1986/87 Fleer w/ two Michael Jordan rookies showing in EX condition and not knowing the other cards worth?"
Answer: nowhere near the premium these rolls are commanding.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Bob - When i asked my original question, I didn't even know what a "Morgan" was, and certainly didn't know that it's worth $20 (or $1, or $1,000). It's not a bad thing for me if the other 18 are worth $20 each, I just needed to know that.
I apologize if my lack of knowledge of what a Morgan dollar is worth offended anyone. I was simply trying to understand what my downside risk was by asking what the true value of these rolls is. Thanks to those that answered kindly and directly.
<< <i>The "very reputable dealer" is highly questionible too >>
Good point. You can't be an expert if you can't recognize the good vs. bad dealers. In collectibles, you pretty much have to assume the worst case....until the dealer proves otherwise. Maybe if that dealer sent the roll to CAC for stickerization?
Your downside risk is potentially 90-100%. There's no guarantee what the middle 18 coins are. They could be lead slugs or buck shot. The other 2 coins could be so horribly damaged on the other side as to be worth 5-20% of their normal value. What would be your downside potential on that Fleer pack with Rookie Jordans? What if the hidden side of the Jordans are all inked up with graffitti? Water stained or worse?
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing was posted to draw attention to those eBay auctions? Then when it backfired with the smart folks here finding the shill bidding, etc, the guy gets cranky?
You don't need to be an "enabler" in order to not be offensive.
Others, such as clarkbar04 did an excellent job of providing an answer without being confrontational and demeaning.
The world, and apparently this board, could use more people like him.
My comment as to "very reputable dealer" was made before reading the neutral feedback. He had 100% positive eBay rating and positive reviews for his local shop that I looked up. That's as far as I had dug at that point. Again though, he has more positive eBay reviews for these same items than neutral.
The assertions that I'm somehow "shilling" or involved with this person are just ridiculous.
I can't believe that a simple question turned into some kind of roast. Makes me a little disappointed in humanity.
Again, though, thanks to those that did answer my naive question directly and kindly. Really appreciate it!
<< <i>I am not an enabler. If your original post was honest and sincere, you definitely need to hear some 'tough love'. Your lack of knowledge CANNOT be cured with a 3 or 4 sentence response from an expert. That's my opinion. You don't have to take it; or like it; but I hold it pretty firmly. Good luck. >>
Jordan rookies that are water stained or worse are still worth $150-$200 each, and that's all I was trying to understand.
Question answered, thanks for everyone's time.
I've responded to the guy that made me the offer.
Let's move on.
Happy collecting!
-Ken
<< <i>
<< <i>The "very reputable dealer" is highly questionible too >>
Good point. You can't be an expert if you can't recognize the good vs. bad dealers. In collectibles, you pretty much have to assume the worst case....until the dealer proves otherwise. Maybe if that dealer sent the roll to CAC for stickerization?
Your downside risk is potentially 90-100%. There's no guarantee what the middle 18 coins are. They could be lead slugs or buck shot. The other 2 coins could be so horribly damaged on the other side as to be worth 5-20% of their normal value. What would be your downside potential on that Fleer pack with Rookie Jordans? What if the hidden side of the Jordans are all inked up with graffitti? Water stained or worse? >>
<< <i>Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing was posted to draw attention to those eBay auctions? Then when it backfired with the smart folks here finding the shill bidding, etc, the guy gets cranky?
If I am wrong, sorry. >>
I think it was a legitimate question from someone looking for information so they could make an informed decision.
<< <i>Dude, if your on the boards asking for opinions about whether an item allegedly in excess of $10K is a good or fair deal....you are, at best, clearly in WAAAYYYYY over your head, and at worst are a shill or are part of the scam yourself. I'm surprised you got as many responses from forum members as you have given how transparently ridiculous the original question and proposition is. >>
I'd like to know how this dealer found about your rare card. Do they do sports cards as well? Did you bring it to their store?
And why they didn't come out with a cash offer? Is it so expensive that the dealer doesn't have that kind of cash around? What was their reasoning for this "grab bag" trade deal? You must have asked as that would have been the first thing I'd have thought of when receiving an offer on something nice that I owned. I know car dealers prefer to make a deal with your trade-in value "hidden." But that's not quite the norm in collectibles.
I have no intention of opening these coins. Again, I'm not a coin collector. My intention would be to just sell them as he has.
1. assumes the seller has really sold these for those kind of money. Have him provide a list of satisified customers or better yet, satisfied dealers who have bought them. 2. by not opening them, you are assuming the same operation that this dealer is performing. Sort of makes you an accessory, as the next owner is going to hold you accountable for what they find. 3. why can't the dealer just sell the rolls himself, then get back to you with the cash? What, they can't wait a few weeks or months to get it done? Or, the coins aren't really salable at the levels he suggests? 4. one has to wonder if this dealer has proposed similar trades to other customers showing up with material to sell?
<< <i>He found my card on ebay. Ihad not responded to his initial message/offer at all before posting here. >>
Well that's certainly a good way to bring the water to the horse. Find worthwhile items on Ebay and propose a trade to the unknowing owners. If just 1 in a 100 bites, score $10K.
Why is your card on Ebay? Are you selling it....or just displaying it? The only way anything I own would end up on Ebay, is if I put there and wanted to sell it.
In searching this guy's feedback on toolhaus.org I don't see any sales of these big $ Morgan rolls. All I see are rolls and bags of wheat cents, etc. It could be that there's no recent neutral/negative feedback on these Morgan rolls because no one has actually bought any. Very surprising that the guy's feed back is 100% on >3600 transactions. There are a couple dozen neutrals.
Every card i own is for sale at the right price, although this card is much harder to get than others. You'll see positive feedback for other rolls like this that sold gor around 3500 if you look at his positive feedbacks. None of this matters now, but wanted to provide an answer to your questions.
<< <i>Every card i own is for sale at the right price, although this card is much harder to get than others. You'll see positive feedback for other rolls like this that sold gor around 3500 if you look at his positive feedbacks. None of this matters now, but wanted to provide an answer to your questions. >>
Seems like you're essentially a dealer.
OK. I missed it the first time. There's just that one single transaction listed. Nothing else is over $300. So they did sell one roll to someone in the past year(s). And that buyer wasn't upset enough to leave a neg, just a neutral. That's strange. A total of 55 neutrals and 4 negs isn't exactly glowing. The seller could have other Ebay ID's besides this one. One dealer that scammed me years back had 4-5 separate Ebay ID's. I found that out after I started digging. Their original ID got to have too many negs so they created others. So even good feedback on a single ID is far from fool-proof.
<< <i>Thanks for the feedback. He says that they were rolled between 1900-1907, so I don't see that particular issue as a red flag.
I see that he has neutral feedback on some items, but has absolutely no negative feedback, and has many positive feedbacks on these exact rolls at prices of around $3500 each.
The question that hasn't been answered yet that I'm hoping to get answered:
What's the downside risk? Again, I don't even know what a "morgan dollar" is. If these are in fact filled with a bunch of junk morgan dollars from those years in the middle, with the two that are visible on the end, what would be the approximate value? >>
The downside risk is that the coins he'll be giving you are worth less than the value of your cards.
Question: Why doesn't he want to pay you with cash?
Answer: Because he sees paying you in the coins as a less-expensive way to pay you.
His neutral feedback tells you that the rolls AREN'T original bank rolls. He has a history of scamming people. And there is no way he can prove the rolls were made by banks between 1900-1907. Anyone can put coins in an old bank roll and claim it's original. Go look at Wheat Cent Rolls on Ebay. There are lots of scam auctions where someone puts 2 attractive coins on the ends with junk in the middle and calls it an original bank roll or create some other phony backstory.
The fact that you don't know anything about coins is also a very good reason to reject his offer and request cash instead. Because you don't know anything about coins, you don't have the basic knowledge to sell the coins at a fair market price.
Think of it this way... Assume that every Morgan Dollar he gives you is worth $20. If he's giving you 20 Morgan Dollars, then he's basically paying you $400. I say $20 each because that's about what you can get after Ebay fees for selling a circulated Morgan Dollar. He won't be giving you premium coins.
Hey Kencope, thanks for asking us. The people here are darn good people in my opinion and they hate scammers. They are just trying to help. Please don't take it personally. Please ask us advise on coins anytime here. The knowledge and experience here is outstanding.
It's Like a resealed cello or rack pack where the sequence of cards is known. Start out with the right sequence card and you can expect the high value card, only with resealed packs the card has been removed.
<< <i>I completely get that. My question was either missed or ignored by many. To use your analogy, my question would be "what is a stack of 1986/87 Fleer w/ two Michael Jordan rookies showing in EX condition and not knowing the other cards worth?"
The question has already been answered by some kind individuals. I've told the offerer to make me a cash offer instead. I appreciate everyone's time.
<< <i>Kencope, think of these rolls as the equivalent of raw Mantle or Jordan RCs. >>
>>
When asking for opinions from some of the worlds top coin collectors expect straight forward replies. You received replies from collectors who were looking out for you regardless of your feelings of being slighted. Would you blow smoke up someones' @** that asked questions about trading cards? I have an offer for one of my original bank rolled Morgan dollar rolls for a folder full of 1960's Cubs baseball cards. How much is that folder worth? I would like to add to the 500,000 other cards I currently have do you believe this would be a good deal?
Don't get mad because you got honest answers. I could recreate any of these rolls for you right now. Being a responsible collector precludes me from doing this but if you would like to buy a roll of Morgan silver Dollars while being completely uneducated I can help you out. For a person to do 0 research and not even lookup what a Morgan Dollar is, is just not believable. Just look at PCGS' site and you will see what a Morgan Dollar is.
Again if you would like some Morgan Dollar rolls for say $5000.00 to $10,000.00 with toned coins on the ends I can hook you up. I would gladly take high quality graded trading cards in trade as I could just use the internet to look them up if I don't know what they are.
Here are some other locations these rolls are being sold for 5000.00. Just a quick google search turned up a bunch of info. Easy to do and become informed. link 1 http://www.collectorsweekly.com/us-coins/rolls link 2
Here is a post from January about this same seller and basicly the same question on another board CT. Read it and see the same answers! link 3
Have you ever told someone to buy a raw card sight unseen?
Feedback on seller: Doubtful this was a OBW roll, no bank stamp,common dates except for end coins Buyer: p***b ( 542Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation Original Bank Sealed Morgan Dollar Roll Double CC Reverse "Washoe County Bank" (#161750814476)
Astounding feedback, it's incredible, the number of (0) and (1) feedback buyers who are absolutely delighted with their purchase 2 vintage bank checks for .99
Ken, you can't get an accurate answer without giving all of the details. What kind of value do you put on your card? How many rolls are being offered in trade? I think you already have enough information from everyone that has posted already, but those details would be vital to giving you a truly accurate answer.
Well, usually the first question that would have popped in my head, if these items are so valuable why is he talking to me about them. Why hasn't he sold the items and have his cash already? Certainly someone much further up the ladder would have bought before I would get offered if they are as rare as he says they are. Why am I even in this picture? This would have raised some red flags. Years ago, 1990's, a guy call me out of the blue with deep cameo silver Franklins, Kennedys and Washington quarters. Said his last name was Bebee and was related to a great collector by same name. But as he rattled on about what he had, I couldn't help thinking, do I really want these coins that (he said) were stacked up on his desk? But....the OP is out of his league. The only way to buy a $12,000 roll is to personally inspect the coins in hand. That's right, the roll will need to be opened so you can examine the coins. Just holding all 20 coins in the palm of your hand and looking at only the edges, how they all have a uniformly look about them in tone and luster. Yes, all 20 coins will definitely look exactly the same as minted. This will tell you the roll is original. But if the coins are of different shades of silver, some dirty and dull, its a put together roll. But you must have experience to do this. Recently, I got all excited about attending an auction on Griswold cast iron pans. I really wanted an old relic of such from the 1860's. But the antagonizing question that kept burning in my head, how am I going to know which pans are the oldest? I did do some research but eventually decided not to go. I just couldn't see myself walking around there turning all those pans over to see what they were. lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Three things come to mind when reading this post: 1) Whether one knows about a collectible item or not, would you think you could learn enough from posting on a forum to be able to fathom such a trade. As in, would you buy a baseball card sealed in a package that allowed you to only see the edges. 2) Why would you wish to take such a risk with all the knowledge in the world regarding coins, even a Morgan $ specialist. The only thing you would be able to figure would be the rough value of the end coins. If you open the rolls then part of the value to the seller is gone. 3) This post is generating a lot of traffic for the seller on their auction page, which could make real potential buyers see the # of visitors and feel they had better bid more, before too late. Also, would be a good tactic for the ebay seller, all the time under the guise of a legitimate coin inquiry. JMO Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
A modest, humble, secretive, sensitive sports card trader with HIGH VALUE? cards on ebay who doesn't know how to Google Morgan dollars or recognize Ebay scammers?
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't. Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago? And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it.
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't. Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago? And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it. >>
Speaking o being an arse today...it is Mr Know it all. >>
Like I said, where is the proof that those rolls AREN'T legit? Post smoe feedback from a buyer who says so.
<< <i>You'll see positive feedback for other rolls like this that sold gor around 3500 if you look at his positive feedbacks. >>
<< <i>I see that he has neutral feedback on some items, but has absolutely no negative feedback, and has many positive feedbacks on these exact rolls at prices of around $3500 each. >>
<< <i>He says that they were rolled between 1900-1907, so I don't see that particular issue as a red flag. >>
<< <i>He had 100% positive eBay rating and positive reviews for his local shop that I looked up. >>
Then he says this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>The assertions that I'm somehow "shilling" or involved with this person are just ridiculous. >>
If this this thread actually was an attempt to get free advertising for a friend in town, it definitely backfired. Plus, these put-together rolls have been discussed on this forum ad nauseum, and next to nobody here would bid on one.
If it was indeed a sincere request for information, let me just reinforce the idea that the coin dealer wants to trade for coins because it's going to be more profitable than buying the card for cash. Way more profitable.
Education is expensive...go ahead and buy one of these "bank sealed rolls" and find out...the hard way!
The only thing "sealed" in this type of offering is DOOM and a little bit of magic...the disappearing of your money and the seller makes a disappearing act of their own.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
I seem to be the only one that's moved on from this thread.
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time.
<< <i>I seem to be the only one that's moved on from this thread.
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time. >>
Now folks, before anyone gets too worked up, may I suggest that
KENCOPE, EBAY be Googled.
You will come upon a thread from a site called BLOWOUTCARDS.COM
Yes, or, instead of drawing one's own conclusion, anybody that has a question can feel free to ask me directly. Almost every member that made accusations against me on the BlowoutCards message board has since been banned from there. To save everyone time, I took uncut sheets, cut the cards out and sold them. Some people don't agree with this practice, some have no problem with is as it's what the card company does anyway. I told everyone that i was doing it before I did so. After realizing that some people had an issue with it, I contacted everyone that bought them and offered a full refund. Some people took the refund, some people kept the cards and were happy. I can provide thousands upon thousands of references and everyone here can easily check my eBay feedback, ask over on the card side of these boards, or check Sports Card Forum, where i have close to 2000 positive transactions and no negatives.
How about we stay on task, Streeter? If you'd like to discuss something with me separately, send me a PM. Thanks!
<< <i>
<< <i>I seem to be the only one that's moved on from this thread.
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time. >>
Now folks, before anyone gets too worked up, may I suggest that
KENCOPE, EBAY be Googled.
You will come upon a thread from a site called BLOWOUTCARDS.COM
Beckett grades these cards because they have no issue with sheet cut cards. SportsItUpCards has since been banned from that message board and was shown to be a proven shiller of auctions. What's your motive and what does any of this have to do with my question in this thread?
Kencope, you are obviously very well versed in eBay selling. You have 236 live auctions and feedback of almost 3700. There is no way you would not have done any research on Morgans and original rolls and you certainly would have read feedback on the seller, trying to trade with you, before coming here and asking such basic questions. It seems you are in cahoots with the Morgan roll seller somehow.
As far as the other stuff, I don't care. It looks like everyone on that site got banned, including you.
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't. Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago? And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it. >>
I did provide proof from the sellers feedback in my post that stated the rolls are a scam.
Comments
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Answer: nowhere near the premium these rolls are commanding.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I apologize if my lack of knowledge of what a Morgan dollar is worth offended anyone. I was simply trying to understand what my downside risk was by asking what the true value of these rolls is. Thanks to those that answered kindly and directly.
<< <i>The "very reputable dealer" is highly questionible too >>
Good point. You can't be an expert if you can't recognize the good vs. bad dealers. In collectibles, you pretty much have to assume the worst case....until the dealer proves otherwise. Maybe if that dealer sent the roll to CAC for stickerization?
Your downside risk is potentially 90-100%. There's no guarantee what the middle 18 coins are. They could be lead slugs or buck shot. The other 2 coins could be so horribly damaged on the other side as to be worth 5-20% of their normal value. What would be your downside potential on that Fleer pack with Rookie Jordans? What if the hidden side of the Jordans are all inked up with graffitti? Water stained or worse?
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing was posted to draw attention to those eBay auctions? Then when it backfired with the smart folks here finding the shill bidding, etc, the guy gets cranky?
If I am wrong, sorry.
Others, such as clarkbar04 did an excellent job of providing an answer without being confrontational and demeaning.
The world, and apparently this board, could use more people like him.
My comment as to "very reputable dealer" was made before reading the neutral feedback. He had 100% positive eBay rating and positive reviews for his local shop that I looked up. That's as far as I had dug at that point. Again though, he has more positive eBay reviews for these same items than neutral.
The assertions that I'm somehow "shilling" or involved with this person are just ridiculous.
I can't believe that a simple question turned into some kind of roast. Makes me a little disappointed in humanity.
Again, though, thanks to those that did answer my naive question directly and kindly. Really appreciate it!
<< <i>I am not an enabler. If your original post was honest and sincere, you definitely need to hear some 'tough love'. Your lack of knowledge CANNOT be cured with a 3 or 4 sentence response from an expert. That's my opinion. You don't have to take it; or like it; but I hold it pretty firmly. Good luck. >>
Question answered, thanks for everyone's time.
I've responded to the guy that made me the offer.
Let's move on.
Happy collecting!
-Ken
<< <i>
<< <i>The "very reputable dealer" is highly questionible too >>
Good point. You can't be an expert if you can't recognize the good vs. bad dealers. In collectibles, you pretty much have to assume the worst case....until the dealer proves otherwise. Maybe if that dealer sent the roll to CAC for stickerization?
Your downside risk is potentially 90-100%. There's no guarantee what the middle 18 coins are. They could be lead slugs or buck shot. The other 2 coins could be so horribly damaged on the other side as to be worth 5-20% of their normal value. What would be your downside potential on that Fleer pack with Rookie Jordans? What if the hidden side of the Jordans are all inked up with graffitti? Water stained or worse? >>
<< <i>Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing was posted to draw attention to those eBay auctions? Then when it backfired with the smart folks here finding the shill bidding, etc, the guy gets cranky?
If I am wrong, sorry. >>
I think it was a legitimate question from someone looking for information so they could make an informed decision.
<< <i>Dude, if your on the boards asking for opinions about whether an item allegedly in excess of $10K is a good or fair deal....you are, at best, clearly in WAAAYYYYY over your head, and at worst are a shill or are part of the scam yourself. I'm surprised you got as many responses from forum members as you have given how transparently ridiculous the original question and proposition is. >>
Yup..Scammer as I read it.
And why they didn't come out with a cash offer? Is it so expensive that the dealer doesn't have that kind of cash around? What was their reasoning for this "grab bag" trade deal? You must have asked as that would have been the first thing I'd have thought of when receiving an offer on something nice that I owned. I know car dealers prefer to make a deal with your trade-in value "hidden." But that's not quite the norm in collectibles.
I have no intention of opening these coins. Again, I'm not a coin collector. My intention would be to just sell them as he has.
1. assumes the seller has really sold these for those kind of money. Have him provide a list of satisified customers or better yet, satisfied dealers who have bought them.
2. by not opening them, you are assuming the same operation that this dealer is performing. Sort of makes you an accessory, as the next owner is going to hold you accountable for what they find.
3. why can't the dealer just sell the rolls himself, then get back to you with the cash? What, they can't wait a few weeks or months to get it done? Or, the coins aren't really salable at the levels he suggests?
4. one has to wonder if this dealer has proposed similar trades to other customers showing up with material to sell?
<< <i>IMO, 99.9% of every eBay auction that contains the words "bank sealed rolls" are scams. >>
I'm with you all the way.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>He found my card on ebay. Ihad not responded to his initial message/offer at all before posting here. >>
Well that's certainly a good way to bring the water to the horse. Find worthwhile items on Ebay and propose a trade to the unknowing owners. If just 1 in a 100 bites, score $10K.
Why is your card on Ebay? Are you selling it....or just displaying it? The only way anything I own would end up on Ebay, is if I put there and wanted to sell it.
In searching this guy's feedback on toolhaus.org I don't see any sales of these big $ Morgan rolls. All I see are rolls and bags of wheat cents, etc. It could be that there's no recent neutral/negative feedback on these Morgan rolls because no one has actually bought any. Very surprising that the guy's feed back is 100% on >3600 transactions. There are a couple dozen neutrals.
bidding
<< <i>Every card i own is for sale at the right price, although this card is much harder to get than others. You'll see positive feedback for other rolls like this that sold gor around 3500 if you look at his positive feedbacks. None of this matters now, but wanted to provide an answer to your questions. >>
Seems like you're essentially a dealer.
OK. I missed it the first time. There's just that one single transaction listed. Nothing else is over $300. So they did sell one roll to someone in the past year(s). And that buyer wasn't upset enough to leave a neg, just a neutral. That's strange. A total of 55 neutrals and 4 negs isn't exactly glowing. The seller could have other Ebay ID's besides this one. One dealer that scammed me years back had 4-5 separate Ebay ID's. I found that out after I started digging. Their original ID got to have too many negs so they created others. So even good feedback on a single ID is far from fool-proof.
toolhaus.org
<< <i>Thanks for the feedback. He says that they were rolled between 1900-1907, so I don't see that particular issue as a red flag.
I see that he has neutral feedback on some items, but has absolutely no negative feedback, and has many positive feedbacks on these exact rolls at prices of around $3500 each.
The question that hasn't been answered yet that I'm hoping to get answered:
What's the downside risk? Again, I don't even know what a "morgan dollar" is. If these are in fact filled with a bunch of junk morgan dollars from those years in the middle, with the two that are visible on the end, what would be the approximate value? >>
The downside risk is that the coins he'll be giving you are worth less than the value of your cards.
Question: Why doesn't he want to pay you with cash?
Answer: Because he sees paying you in the coins as a less-expensive way to pay you.
His neutral feedback tells you that the rolls AREN'T original bank rolls. He has a history of scamming people. And there is no way he can prove the rolls were made by banks between 1900-1907. Anyone can put coins in an old bank roll and claim it's original. Go look at Wheat Cent Rolls on Ebay. There are lots of scam auctions where someone puts 2 attractive coins on the ends with junk in the middle and calls it an original bank roll or create some other phony backstory.
The fact that you don't know anything about coins is also a very good reason to reject his offer and request cash instead. Because you don't know anything about coins, you don't have the basic knowledge to sell the coins at a fair market price.
Think of it this way... Assume that every Morgan Dollar he gives you is worth $20. If he's giving you 20 Morgan Dollars, then he's basically paying you $400. I say $20 each because that's about what you can get after Ebay fees for selling a circulated Morgan Dollar. He won't be giving you premium coins.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>I completely get that. My question was either missed or ignored by many. To use your analogy, my question would be "what is a stack of 1986/87 Fleer w/ two Michael Jordan rookies showing in EX condition and not knowing the other cards worth?"
The question has already been answered by some kind individuals. I've told the offerer to make me a cash offer instead. I appreciate everyone's time.
<< <i>Kencope, think of these rolls as the equivalent of raw Mantle or Jordan RCs. >>
>>
When asking for opinions from some of the worlds top coin collectors expect straight forward replies. You received replies from collectors who were looking out for you regardless of your feelings of being slighted. Would you blow smoke up someones' @** that asked questions about trading cards? I have an offer for one of my original bank rolled Morgan dollar rolls for a folder full of 1960's Cubs baseball cards. How much is that folder worth? I would like to add to the 500,000 other cards I currently have do you believe this would be a good deal?
Don't get mad because you got honest answers. I could recreate any of these rolls for you right now. Being a responsible collector precludes me from doing this but if you would like to buy a roll of Morgan silver Dollars while being completely uneducated I can help you out. For a person to do 0 research and not even lookup what a Morgan Dollar is, is just not believable. Just look at PCGS' site and you will see what a Morgan Dollar is.
Again if you would like some Morgan Dollar rolls for say $5000.00 to $10,000.00 with toned coins on the ends I can hook you up. I would gladly take high quality graded trading cards in trade as I could just use the internet to look them up if I don't know what they are.
Have a great one, Christos.
link 1
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/us-coins/rolls link 2
Here is a post from January about this same seller and basicly the same question on another board CT. Read it and see the same answers!
link 3
Have you ever told someone to buy a raw card sight unseen?
Feedback on seller: Doubtful this was a OBW roll, no bank stamp,common dates except for end coins Buyer: p***b ( 542Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Original Bank Sealed Morgan Dollar Roll Double CC Reverse "Washoe County Bank" (#161750814476)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Years ago, 1990's, a guy call me out of the blue with deep cameo silver Franklins, Kennedys and Washington quarters. Said his last name was Bebee and was related to a great collector by same name. But as he rattled on about what he had, I couldn't help thinking, do I really want these coins that (he said) were stacked up on his desk?
But....the OP is out of his league. The only way to buy a $12,000 roll is to personally inspect the coins in hand. That's right, the roll will need to be opened so you can examine the coins. Just holding all 20 coins in the palm of your hand and looking at only the edges, how they all have a uniformly look about them in tone and luster. Yes, all 20 coins will definitely look exactly the same as minted. This will tell you the roll is original. But if the coins are of different shades of silver, some dirty and dull, its a put together roll. But you must have experience to do this.
Recently, I got all excited about attending an auction on Griswold cast iron pans. I really wanted an old relic of such from the 1860's. But the antagonizing question that kept burning in my head, how am I going to know which pans are the oldest? I did do some research but eventually decided not to go. I just couldn't see myself walking around there turning all those pans over to see what they were. lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
1) Whether one knows about a collectible item or not, would you think you could learn enough from posting on
a forum to be able to fathom such a trade. As in, would you buy a baseball card sealed in a package that allowed you to only see the edges.
2) Why would you wish to take such a risk with all the knowledge in the world regarding coins, even a Morgan $ specialist. The only
thing you would be able to figure would be the rough value of the end coins. If you open the rolls then part of the value to the seller is gone.
3) This post is generating a lot of traffic for the seller on their auction page, which could make real potential buyers see the # of visitors and
feel they had better bid more, before too late. Also, would be a good tactic for the ebay seller, all the time under the guise of a legitimate coin
inquiry.
JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Hmmmmmmm.
<< <i>IMO, 99.9% of every eBay auction that contains the words "bank sealed rolls" are scams. >>
My thoughts exactly.
<< <i>291fifth - I have no intention of selling this particular card at auction at this time.
>>
<< <i>He found my card on ebay. Ihad not responded to his initial message/offer at all before posting here. >>
Decline the offer and move on.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
<< <i>Seen similar ones to these in person and complete scam. Run. No more thinking about these! >>
Scam rhymes with spam...
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't.
Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago?
And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't.
Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago?
And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it. >>
Speaking o being an arse today...it is Mr Know it all. >>
These are quotes from kencope:
<< <i>You'll see positive feedback for other rolls like this that sold gor around 3500 if you look at his positive feedbacks. >>
<< <i>I see that he has neutral feedback on some items, but has absolutely no negative feedback, and has many positive feedbacks on these exact rolls at prices of around $3500 each. >>
<< <i>He says that they were rolled between 1900-1907, so I don't see that particular issue as a red flag. >>
<< <i>He had 100% positive eBay rating and positive reviews for his local shop that I looked up. >>
Then he says this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>The assertions that I'm somehow "shilling" or involved with this person are just ridiculous. >>
If it was indeed a sincere request for information, let me just reinforce the idea that the coin dealer wants to trade for coins because it's going to be more profitable than buying the card for cash. Way more profitable.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.The only thing "sealed" in this type of offering is DOOM and a little bit of magic...the disappearing of your money and the seller makes a disappearing act of their own.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time.
<< <i>I seem to be the only one that's moved on from this thread.
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time. >>
Now folks, before anyone gets too worked up, may I suggest that
KENCOPE, EBAY be Googled.
You will come upon a thread from a site called BLOWOUTCARDS.COM
Just read it and draw your own conclusion.
How about we stay on task, Streeter? If you'd like to discuss something with me separately, send me a PM. Thanks!
<< <i>
<< <i>I seem to be the only one that's moved on from this thread.
I sent the ebay member that wanted to trade a message saying that I wasn't interested in the coins, as I couldn't confirm what was inside the rolls. Asked him to make a cash offer instead if he's interested.
To answer some questions, since I seem to need to defend myself for asking a very simple and innocent question:
1. The only research I did before posting here was to ask a local card shop dealer that I know that also deals heavily in coins and to see that the seller had 100% positive feedback. I didn't google anything first. I didn't know that there was harm in coming to this community to ask before doing that.
2. The card he was interested in was my Peyton Manning Contenders Autograph PSA 10.
3. I took a close look at the buyer's feedback after originally posting here and saw the neutrals (no negatives), as well as some positives related to these rolls. That said, none of that matters as some of you were kind enough to let me know that Morgan dollars typically sell for $20 each if just "commons", so that little bit of information was enough for me to decide that I was not interested in his offer.
4. I realize now that it's as easy for most of you to spot what he was selling as a possible scam, just like it would be for me to tell someone not to buy "Christmas Packs" of 1950s/1960s Topps baseball, but again I don't know anything about this and came here first to find out.
Thanks again to those that were informative and kind in their posts. I think I'll stick to the card side of these message boards going forward, but appreciate everyone's time. >>
Now folks, before anyone gets too worked up, may I suggest that
KENCOPE, EBAY be Googled.
You will come upon a thread from a site called BLOWOUTCARDS.COM
Just read it and draw your own conclusion. >>
<< <i>you just gotta laugh, I hope the link works >>
Kencope, you are obviously very well versed in eBay selling. You have 236 live auctions and feedback of almost 3700. There is no way you would not have done any research on Morgans and original rolls and you certainly would have read feedback on the seller, trying to trade with you, before coming here and asking such basic questions. It seems you are in cahoots with the Morgan roll seller somehow.
As far as the other stuff, I don't care. It looks like everyone on that site got banned, including you.
Cheers!
<< <i>
<< <i>A self proclaimed astute baseball card collector who isn't really interested in making the trade comes here to ask for advice about making the trade explaining that he knows nothing about what he wants to trade his rare baseball card for. He won't give the value of his rare card or tell what it is, but wants to know the value of the coins he is contemplating on trading them for even though he really doesn't.
Baseball cards are really know different than coins in many ways but being an expert in cards he cannot understand why the shear number of coins doesn't make sense whether he sees them or not. Would he blindly buy a package of cards that he can't verify as originally wrapped from sometime ago?
And being completely unknowledgeable about coins he also doesn't like some of the answers he is getting, does that make sense. >>
Sheerly you jest! He isn't wanting to trade, he was OFFERED a trade. In most or all collectibles if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. If you don't know anything about the coins it's hard to decide if the deal is fair. There is a high likelihood that the roll is not what it seems to be, but nobody has provided proof thru feedback from unhappy purchasers that the rolls aren't legit.
If the OP was still interested, any deal would be contingent upon receiving the roll/s, opening and appraising the contents.
He doesn't like the answers because some of the replies are just dumb. Just give an honest opinion without being an ass about it. >>
I did provide proof from the sellers feedback in my post that stated the rolls are a scam.