Thanks Bochiman... That's been my position the whole time.
While some might think the seller may have secured private insurance , please keep in mind, I asked the guy who answered the phone and who mailed the package whether it was insured or not... He said "no". So, there was no insurance.
All the same... The lack of insurance is his problem, and should be his loss, not mine.
<< <i>Thanks Bochiman... That's been my position the whole time.
While some might think the seller may have secured private insurance , please keep in mind, I asked the guy who answered the phone and who mailed the package whether it was insured or not... He said "no". So, there was no insurance.
All the same... The lack of insurance is his problem, and should be his loss, not mine.
'dude >>
Forgive me if I'm repeating points already made as I haven't perused the whole thread. I honestly think you are going to be made whole here...If all else fails you can simply do a CC chargeback, though I doubt it will need to come to that. By the looks of the package the coins are either in the bottom of a USPS bin somewhere or in the hands of the person who "found" them. That's not machine damage IMO based on what I can see; believe me, we've gotten plenty of machine damaged packages, envelopes and flats over the years and outside of being split, that envelope looks virtually pristine...so either the coins fell out or had "help" falling out.
As to the seller... so the kid shipped the product but blew off or forgot the insurance, and not the seller himself, correct? Is it possible that Dad may not even know of the problem? Have you actually physically talked to Dad himself on the phone by any chance? I'm just curious.
Telephoto - "dad" has not offered to call, write, or PM since the day I spoke to the "son" (Saturday - the day the USPS carrier tried to deliver the package). Personally, I'm at a point where I don't believe "dad" ever existed... I believe the seller is the young lad with whom I spoke on the phone. I've since emailed and PM'd the seller to welcome them to provide his "side of the story" to this thread.... no response.
I took the photo of the package to the local US Post office and spoke to supervisor there. Aside from the topic of potential mail fraud, the supervisor did say that they've seen where the bubble envelopes will "pop" open along the seams if there is enough air trapped inside and something heavy enough is stacked or dropped on top of it. That may be what happened, but it's purely speculation.
Forget the idea of "mail fraud." The govt's (FBI) IC3 complaint data bank is full of cases like this that go nowhere.....been there...done that.
Just hope you get made whole.
I had a problem with a package sent to me using Priority mail. The package mail and scanned as being delivered, but I never received the package. I sent a claim to paypal. They concluded that because the package was scanned as being delivered that it was delivered to may address. Claim denied by Pay Pal, claim denied by USPS. Out $141.00. No recourse.
Just had one of those myself back in November. It was only a $50 part but both the shipper and USPS had it as "delivered" in their system. Neither would lift a finger. Did end up getting my M/C to reimburse me for the item. It was the first C/C claim I've had in over 30 years. USPS had a different person on the route that Saturday. And we were in the yard working to boot. The mail box was empty that day....though somehow they managed to deliver that part to us....and their tracking system can't be wrong.
<< <i>Telephoto - "dad" has not offered to call, write, or PM since the day I spoke to the "son" (Saturday - the day the USPS carrier tried to deliver the package). Personally, I'm at a point where I don't believe "dad" ever existed... I believe the seller is the young lad with whom I spoke on the phone. I've since emailed and PM'd the seller to welcome them to provide his "side of the story" to this thread.... no response.
I took the photo of the package to the local US Post office and spoke to supervisor there. Aside from the topic of potential mail fraud, the supervisor did say that they've seen where the bubble envelopes will "pop" open along the seams if there is enough air trapped inside and something heavy enough is stacked or dropped on top of it. That may be what happened, but it's purely speculation.
'dude >>
Since a gold coin was left in the package, you can't discount the possibility that the envelope was damaged and came apart. It's not mail fraud. Its a tHeft or the OP is a victim of a damaged package.
<< <i>Forget the idea of "mail fraud." The govt's (FBI) IC3 complaint data bank is full of cases like this that go nowhere.....been there...done that.
Just hope you get made whole.
I had a problem with a package sent to me using Priority mail. The package mail and scanned as being delivered, but I never received the package. I sent a claim to paypal. They concluded that because the package was scanned as being delivered that it was delivered to may address. Claim denied by Pay Pal, claim denied by USPS. Out $141.00. No recourse.
Just had one of those myself back in November. It was only a $50 part but both the shipper and USPS had it as "delivered" in their system. Neither would lift a finger. Did end up getting my M/C to reimburse me for the item. It was the first C/C claim I've had in over 30 years. USPS had a different person on the route that Saturday. And we were in the yard working to boot. The mail box was empty that day....though somehow they managed to deliver that part to us....and their tracking system can't be wrong. >>
Similar incident occurred in my neck of the woods....mail was scanned delivered & dropped in my mail box, however, when I went to retrieve my mail, (several hours later) none was to be found. Apparently I was not the only victim that day. Numerous mail boxes had similar results. It's called mail box pilferage....It appears that some one followed the USPS mail carrier and decided to make mine and my neighbors mail, his or hers. Postal Inspectors Office was busy the next week, taking calls and filing complaints from my neighborhood. Target did make good on my order ( 2 pairs of Levi's) after I gave them the Postal Inspectors Case #
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>It really bothers me to hear of issues on the BST.... I have used it on many occasions and always successfully. I sure hope it continues to be a trusted venue... Cheers, RickO >>
As do I but then, it really is a wide open venue.
Literally anybody can get an account and start selling whether they intend to actually sell or not. In this case and since PCGS doesn't really want folks getting disparaged, it's really up to the active membership to police itself. I think CharlotteDude did the right thing and I hope that folks DO inquire as to who the seller was to hopefully avoid situations such as this. Three Grand is a lot of money.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>They do weigh the envelopes, not sure if that helps. >>
A $5.40 postage fee indicates a 4 oz package with signature confirmation. A quick calculation shows that 3 PCGS Slabs with 1 cent coins weighs 3.6 oz. Provided these were slabbed gold coins, the numbers don't add up.
I'm really curious about this one now.
What were the coins supposed to be CharlotteDude?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I think its always best when negotiating the price to specifically call out that the price includes "shipping and insurance", or that's the "delivered" price. For shipments of that value and small size, Express Mail is a better choice and the insurance rate is 1/2 of that for Priority Mail. >>
+1
I always spell out the details I want before paying.
Looks like paypal will not make you whole if the seller does not have the funds in his account?? A few years back I had an issue and ebay/paypal forked over 900 when the other party had no money to make things right. It took a few phone calls to get that resolution though.
I hope you get the whole amount
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>I think its always best when negotiating the price to specifically call out that the price includes "shipping and insurance", or that's the "delivered" price. For shipments of that value and small size, Express Mail is a better choice and the insurance rate is 1/2 of that for Priority Mail. >>
+1
I always spell out the details I want before paying.
Looks like paypal will not make you whole if the seller does not have the funds in his account?? A few years back I had an issue and ebay/paypal forked over 900 when the other party had no money to make things right. It took a few phone calls to get that resolution though.
I hope you get the whole amount >>
Payapl coughs up the all money ...worries later to collect from seller ....one way or another
<< <i>UPDATE - I wanted to put this at the top so folks wouldn't have to mill to the end of the posts. Looks like PAYPAL is going to make things right, hopefully the $$ comes through. I want to thank all the members who provided constructive suggestions and reassurances regarding this incident. I appreciate all of your input and PMs.
... and good on Paypal for protecting the consumer.
BTW, all names, identifying data and monetary amounts in the below message have been altered to protect both the innocent and the guilty.
thanks,
A relieved 'dude
PAYPAL message:
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Resolution of Your Case: #PP-003-843-507-XXXX ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Dude,
We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favor.
You have indicated that a partial refund of "a wee more than" $3,000.00 USD would be satisfactory. We were able to recover "that wee more than" $3,000.00 USD and this amount has been credited to you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.
If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to recover the balance from the seller.
If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account privileges.
Transaction Date: Apr 8, 2015 Transaction Amount: A wee more than $3,000.00 USD Your Transaction ID: 0LSSSS98SSSXXXX Case Number: PP-003-843-507-XXXX
Buyer's Transaction ID: 0LS6XXXXXXXXX98XXX
----------------------------------- What to Do Next -----------------------------------
No further action is required by you at this time.
----------------------------------- Other Details -----------------------------------
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the PayPal site and click the Security Center link located at the top of any page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.
To learn more about PayPal's Buyer Protection Program, go to the PayPal website and click the Security Center link located at the bottom of any page.
Thanks, PayPal Protection Services Department Sincerely, PayPal
This email was sent by an automated system, so if you reply, nobody will see it. To get in touch with us, log in to your account and click "Contact Us" at the bottom of any page.
OPENING / INITIAL POST: Need some advice/experienced opinions on a matter that recently happened. Earlier this week, I agreed to purchase several common-date gold coins from a fellow forum member - price north of $3000.00. I've never dealt with the gentleman before, so we agreed I'd make payment via PAYPAL. Confirmation PMs were exchanged that payment was received and the coins were shipped. Fast forward to yesterday, and the Postman drives up to the house, and pulls out the below package from the seller:
I immediately realized the package had been tampered with/opened, so I asked the postman if I could look inside the gaping hole to confirm its contents. There was only one coin inside the envelope, meaning over $2000 worth of gold was missing. I took several photos of both the package and postman who tried to deliver it, and refused to accept the package. I advised the Postman to send it back to the sender. During this brief conversation, I confirmed w/the postman that the seller DID NOT insure the package, only 1st Class mail w/signature confirmation - seriously??
I called the cell # the seller provided. His son (late teens/early 20's yrs old?) answered the call, stated his father (with whom I thought I had been dealing) rarely used the phone I called, and confirmed that he (the son) was the one who shipped the coins, and that he (the son) shipped the coins without insurance. At that point, I didn't know if I had been dealing with what I thought was the original seller or the son since Day 1.
By this time, my level of aggravation was pretty much top-lining. I notified Paypal, provided details, and requested a refund due to the seller's lack of delivering the purchased coins. I emailed the seller, informing him of the Paypal claim, and requested he refund the money to my account. After a couple exchanges, his reply was that he was going to provide Paypal his "side of the story" and that we would "see what happens".
This is the first time out of many, many transactions with PCGS forum members in which I've had any issue with a purchase or sale. I don't often use PAYPAL, so I have no personal experience with their claims process or how they tend to rule.
To me, this should be a cut and dry situation. I paid the seller the requested $$ for the coins via Paypal w/buyer's protection (and through my personal credit card). I don't know if the seller shipped all of the coins, or only one. All I can confirm is that the package the USPS tried to deliver yesterday had been tampered with/opened, and was missing all but one coin. The package made the journey with only one coin, which I refused and sent back to the seller. It is noted as such on the USPS.com website. It was on the seller to acquire adequate insurance for the coins. Any loss of the coins is a matter between the seller/sender and the USPS, as well as any compensation to the seller from the USPS, correct? Although due to the failure of the sender to secure any insurance for the package, I doubt the USPS will reimburse the seller for any claim.
I have provided Paypal with copies of the PM exchanges, emails, email w/seller's pictures of the coins, and photographs taken of the package w/the postman.
Question: How does Paypal typically rule on such matters? Anyone have experience/recommendations for this situation?
Any advice would be appreciated,
thanks -
'dude >>
Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ?
<< <i> Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ? >>
I don't see it either. Please post the member's ID. >>
Well, I sure as heck will be extremely careful about entering into any gold transactions with any forum members from the Baltimore area, especially if I know they are located in the 21209 Zip Code.
Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you.
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here?
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint.
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint. >>
Hopefully the father/son gets the message. CYA or lose it. Even if risk of loss passes to the buyer, one's reputation takes it in the shorts.
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint. >>
You know what? Insurance would have been great here, so would have been A BOX. A freakin' box. No box, padded mailer, no insurance. In this case, the seller's laziness cost him $3000. Lesson learned, hopefully.
Comments
While some might think the seller may have secured private insurance , please keep in mind, I asked the guy who answered the phone and who mailed the package whether it was insured or not... He said "no". So, there was no insurance.
All the same... The lack of insurance is his problem, and should be his loss, not mine.
'dude
<< <i>Thanks Bochiman... That's been my position the whole time.
While some might think the seller may have secured private insurance , please keep in mind, I asked the guy who answered the phone and who mailed the package whether it was insured or not... He said "no". So, there was no insurance.
All the same... The lack of insurance is his problem, and should be his loss, not mine.
'dude >>
Forgive me if I'm repeating points already made as I haven't perused the whole thread.
I honestly think you are going to be made whole here...If all else fails you can simply do a CC chargeback, though I doubt it will need to come to that.
By the looks of the package the coins are either in the bottom of a USPS bin somewhere or in the hands of the person who "found" them. That's not machine damage IMO based on what I can see; believe me, we've gotten plenty of machine damaged packages, envelopes and flats over the years and outside of being split, that envelope looks virtually pristine...so either the coins fell out or had "help" falling out.
As to the seller... so the kid shipped the product but blew off or forgot the insurance, and not the seller himself, correct? Is it possible that Dad may not even know of the problem? Have you actually physically talked to Dad himself on the phone by any chance? I'm just curious.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I took the photo of the package to the local US Post office and spoke to supervisor there. Aside from the topic of potential mail fraud, the supervisor did say that they've seen where the bubble envelopes will "pop" open along the seams if there is enough air trapped inside and something heavy enough is stacked or dropped on top of it. That may be what happened, but it's purely speculation.
'dude
Just hope you get made whole.
I had a problem with a package sent to me using Priority mail. The package mail and scanned as being delivered, but I never received the package. I sent a claim to paypal. They concluded that because the package was scanned as being delivered that it was delivered to may address. Claim denied by Pay Pal, claim denied by USPS. Out $141.00. No recourse.
Just had one of those myself back in November. It was only a $50 part but both the shipper and USPS had it as "delivered" in their system. Neither would lift a finger. Did end up getting my M/C to reimburse me for the item. It was the first C/C claim I've had in over 30 years. USPS had a different person on the route that Saturday. And we were in the yard working to boot. The mail box was empty that day....though somehow they managed to deliver that part to us....and their tracking system can't be wrong.
<< <i>Telephoto - "dad" has not offered to call, write, or PM since the day I spoke to the "son" (Saturday - the day the USPS carrier tried to deliver the package). Personally, I'm at a point where I don't believe "dad" ever existed... I believe the seller is the young lad with whom I spoke on the phone. I've since emailed and PM'd the seller to welcome them to provide his "side of the story" to this thread.... no response.
I took the photo of the package to the local US Post office and spoke to supervisor there. Aside from the topic of potential mail fraud, the supervisor did say that they've seen where the bubble envelopes will "pop" open along the seams if there is enough air trapped inside and something heavy enough is stacked or dropped on top of it. That may be what happened, but it's purely speculation.
'dude >>
Since a gold coin was left in the package, you can't discount the possibility that the envelope was damaged and came apart. It's not mail fraud. Its a tHeft or the OP is a victim of a damaged package.
'dude
~Bill
<< <i>Forget the idea of "mail fraud." The govt's (FBI) IC3 complaint data bank is full of cases like this that go nowhere.....been there...done that.
Just hope you get made whole.
I had a problem with a package sent to me using Priority mail. The package mail and scanned as being delivered, but I never received the package. I sent a claim to paypal. They concluded that because the package was scanned as being delivered that it was delivered to may address. Claim denied by Pay Pal, claim denied by USPS. Out $141.00. No recourse.
Just had one of those myself back in November. It was only a $50 part but both the shipper and USPS had it as "delivered" in their system. Neither would lift a finger. Did end up getting my M/C to reimburse me for the item. It was the first C/C claim I've had in over 30 years. USPS had a different person on the route that Saturday. And we were in the yard working to boot. The mail box was empty that day....though somehow they managed to deliver that part to us....and their tracking system can't be wrong.
Similar incident occurred in my neck of the woods....mail was scanned delivered & dropped in my mail box, however, when I went to retrieve my mail, (several hours later) none was to be found. Apparently I was not the only victim that day. Numerous mail boxes had similar results. It's called mail box pilferage....It appears that some one followed the USPS mail carrier and decided to make mine and my neighbors mail, his or hers. Postal Inspectors Office was busy the next week, taking calls and filing complaints from my neighborhood. Target did make good on my order ( 2 pairs of Levi's) after I gave them the Postal Inspectors Case #
<< <i>It really bothers me to hear of issues on the BST.... I have used it on many occasions and always successfully. I sure hope it continues to be a trusted venue... Cheers, RickO >>
As do I but then, it really is a wide open venue.
Literally anybody can get an account and start selling whether they intend to actually sell or not. In this case and since PCGS doesn't really want folks getting disparaged, it's really up to the active membership to police itself. I think CharlotteDude did the right thing and I hope that folks DO inquire as to who the seller was to hopefully avoid situations such as this.
Three Grand is a lot of money.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>They do weigh the envelopes, not sure if that helps. >>
A $5.40 postage fee indicates a 4 oz package with signature confirmation. A quick calculation shows that 3 PCGS Slabs with 1 cent coins weighs 3.6 oz. Provided these were slabbed gold coins, the numbers don't add up.
I'm really curious about this one now.
What were the coins supposed to be CharlotteDude?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I think its always best when negotiating the price to specifically call out that the price includes "shipping and insurance", or that's the "delivered" price. For shipments of that value and small size, Express Mail is a better choice and the insurance rate is 1/2 of that for Priority Mail. >>
+1
I always spell out the details I want before paying.
Looks like paypal will not make you whole if the seller does not have the funds in his account?? A few years back I had an issue and ebay/paypal forked over 900 when the other party had no money to make things right. It took a few phone calls to get that resolution though.
I hope you get the whole amount
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Collective sigh of relief. . . .
<< <i>
<< <i>I think its always best when negotiating the price to specifically call out that the price includes "shipping and insurance", or that's the "delivered" price. For shipments of that value and small size, Express Mail is a better choice and the insurance rate is 1/2 of that for Priority Mail. >>
+1
I always spell out the details I want before paying.
Looks like paypal will not make you whole if the seller does not have the funds in his account?? A few years back I had an issue and ebay/paypal forked over 900 when the other party had no money to make things right. It took a few phone calls to get that resolution though.
I hope you get the whole amount >>
Payapl coughs up the all money ...worries later to collect from seller ....one way or another
<< <i>UPDATE - I wanted to put this at the top so folks wouldn't have to mill to the end of the posts. Looks like PAYPAL is going to make things right, hopefully the $$ comes through.
I want to thank all the members who provided constructive suggestions and reassurances regarding this incident. I appreciate all of your input and PMs.
... and good on Paypal for protecting the consumer.
BTW, all names, identifying data and monetary amounts in the below message have been altered to protect both the innocent and the guilty.
thanks,
A relieved 'dude
PAYPAL message:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Resolution of Your Case: #PP-003-843-507-XXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Dude,
We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your
favor.
You have indicated that a partial refund of "a wee more than" $3,000.00 USD would be
satisfactory.
We were able to recover "that wee more than" $3,000.00 USD and this amount has been credited to
you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.
If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.
If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.
-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------
Seller's Name: Cletus Festers
Seller's Email: CletusFesters@yahoo.com
Seller's Transaction ID: 14007763KU29XXXXX
Transaction Date: Apr 8, 2015
Transaction Amount: A wee more than $3,000.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: 0LSSSS98SSSXXXX
Case Number: PP-003-843-507-XXXX
Buyer's Transaction ID: 0LS6XXXXXXXXX98XXX
-----------------------------------
What to Do Next
-----------------------------------
No further action is required by you at this time.
-----------------------------------
Other Details
-----------------------------------
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click the Security Center link located at the top of any
page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the
"Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.
To learn more about PayPal's Buyer Protection Program, go to the PayPal
website and click the Security Center link located at the bottom of any
page.
Thanks,
PayPal Protection Services Department
Sincerely,
PayPal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Help Center:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help
Security Center:
https://www.paypal.com/us/security
This email was sent by an automated system, so if you reply, nobody will
see it. To get in touch with us, log in to your account and click "Contact
Us" at the bottom of any page.
Copyright © 2015 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at
2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.
PayPal Email ID PP769 - 1fff78fee7085
OPENING / INITIAL POST:
Need some advice/experienced opinions on a matter that recently happened. Earlier this week, I agreed to purchase several common-date gold coins from a fellow forum member - price north of $3000.00. I've never dealt with the gentleman before, so we agreed I'd make payment via PAYPAL. Confirmation PMs were exchanged that payment was received and the coins were shipped. Fast forward to yesterday, and the Postman drives up to the house, and pulls out the below package from the seller:
I immediately realized the package had been tampered with/opened, so I asked the postman if I could look inside the gaping hole to confirm its contents. There was only one coin inside the envelope, meaning over $2000 worth of gold was missing. I took several photos of both the package and postman who tried to deliver it, and refused to accept the package. I advised the Postman to send it back to the sender. During this brief conversation, I confirmed w/the postman that the seller DID NOT insure the package, only 1st Class mail w/signature confirmation - seriously??
I called the cell # the seller provided. His son (late teens/early 20's yrs old?) answered the call, stated his father (with whom I thought I had been dealing) rarely used the phone I called, and confirmed that he (the son) was the one who shipped the coins, and that he (the son) shipped the coins without insurance. At that point, I didn't know if I had been dealing with what I thought was the original seller or the son since Day 1.
By this time, my level of aggravation was pretty much top-lining. I notified Paypal, provided details, and requested a refund due to the seller's lack of delivering the purchased coins. I emailed the seller, informing him of the Paypal claim, and requested he refund the money to my account. After a couple exchanges, his reply was that he was going to provide Paypal his "side of the story" and that we would "see what happens".
This is the first time out of many, many transactions with PCGS forum members in which I've had any issue with a purchase or sale. I don't often use PAYPAL, so I have no personal experience with their claims process or how they tend to rule.
To me, this should be a cut and dry situation. I paid the seller the requested $$ for the coins via Paypal w/buyer's protection (and through my personal credit card). I don't know if the seller shipped all of the coins, or only one. All I can confirm is that the package the USPS tried to deliver yesterday had been tampered with/opened, and was missing all but one coin. The package made the journey with only one coin, which I refused and sent back to the seller. It is noted as such on the USPS.com website. It was on the seller to acquire adequate insurance for the coins. Any loss of the coins is a matter between the seller/sender and the USPS, as well as any compensation to the seller from the USPS, correct? Although due to the failure of the sender to secure any insurance for the package, I doubt the USPS will reimburse the seller for any claim.
I have provided Paypal with copies of the PM exchanges, emails, email w/seller's pictures of the coins, and photographs taken of the package w/the postman.
Question: How does Paypal typically rule on such matters? Anyone have experience/recommendations for this situation?
Any advice would be appreciated,
thanks -
'dude >>
Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ? >>
I don't see it either. Please post the member's ID.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ? >>
I don't see it either. Please post the member's ID. >>
Well, I sure as heck will be extremely careful about entering into any gold transactions with any forum members from the Baltimore area, especially if I know they are located in the 21209 Zip Code.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
Once again .. did I miss the forum member's handle ? >>
I don't see it either. Please post the member's ID. >>
Read all the comments posted by the OP.
The name is LEE!
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here?
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<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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<< <i>
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint. >>
Hopefully the father/son gets the message. CYA or lose it. Even if risk of loss passes to the buyer, one's reputation takes it in the shorts.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Glad to hear it's working out with Paypal. Given the scenario I expected as much. Also, kudos for not publicly outing the seller. As far as anyone knows, the son's only transgression is forgetting insurance...which ends up ultimately costing him (or Dad) and not you. >>
Other than a possible reluctance to settle on the part of the seller, how would insurance have benefited the buyer here? >>
I merely made the statement that the lack of insurance penalizes the seller, not the buyer. Buyers now have multiple avenues by which they can obtain a refund so the seller having insurance is irrelevant from the buyer's standpoint. >>
You know what? Insurance would have been great here, so would have been A BOX. A freakin' box. No box, padded mailer, no insurance. In this case, the seller's laziness cost him $3000. Lesson learned, hopefully.