Is it bad form to discuss a coin being auctioned?

PerryHall · January 10, 2015 7:11PM

In another thread there is a well engraved potty trade dollar that is being discussed that is currently being auctioned. Someone mentioned that it's bad form to discuss a coin before it's been sold. Do you agree with this? I can see someone not wanting any more competition from new bidders. I can also see a forum member finding an interesting or unusual coin and wanting to discuss it thus bringing it to the attention of other forum members who might be interested in buying the coin. What do you think?

lasvegasteddy · January 10, 2015 7:22PM

i see no problem in such at all

so long as this forum doesn't get flooded with spamming one's own auctions or a buddy's auction

i wish there was a board for deals worthy to investigate
as sometimes i run across deals beyond my financial reach

or amazing coins i'd love to see someone here see too before they get snatched up
how cool would that be...a hot lead board or tip board

but yeah
so long as it's not an abused issue...i have no problem with it

lostincoins · January 10, 2015 7:33PM

I see no problem because it would be the same if I were to PM those I talk to to let them know about it. What if a forum member was looking for that exact coin? More competition is good for the seller and could actully be good for the buyer also to help determine a future value. I do understand those that say it is bad form and they do have the right to feel that way. Some who feel this way call it an unwritten rule that all must follw and that based on their opinion is a bit strong. On the other hand when quoting written rules, not much can be argued there. I am not in the not so secrete circle of trust or if I am in one I don't know it but those have their own unwritten rules that must be followed so um well there you go.

messydesk · January 10, 2015 8:04PM

It's bad form to attempt to influence a legitimate auction here, as that is what the BST forum is for. Whether the intent of someone calling attention to an auction is influencing it or not is not always clear. If it's obvious that you're shilling for your own stuff, expect wrath. If you are reporting counterfeits, you'll probably be thanked for pointing it out, assuming you're correct. If you want to discuss a high profile coin, that's fine with me, too. Calling attention to an error in an auction happens from time to time, as well, but you had better be able to back up your claim.

PerryHall · January 10, 2015 8:48PM

<< i wish there was a board for deals worthy to investigate
as sometimes i run across deals beyond my financial reach

or amazing coins i'd love to see someone here see too before they get snatched up
how cool would that be...a hot lead board or tip board >>

There's an ongoing thread in the Precious Metals forum where bullion stackers can share any good deals or special sales by the major bullion dealers.

PerryHall · January 10, 2015 8:54PM

<< It's bad form to attempt to influence a legitimate auction here, as that is what the BST forum is for. Whether the intent of someone calling attention to an auction is influencing it or not is not always clear. If it's obvious that you're shilling for your own stuff, expect wrath. If you are reporting counterfeits, you'll probably be thanked for pointing it out, assuming you're correct. If you want to discuss a high profile coin, that's fine with me, too. Calling attention to an error in an auction happens from time to time, as well, but you had better be able to back up your claim. >>

Obviously it's bad forum to spam an auction that one or a friend has a financial interest in. I think everyone can agree to this. I was thinking more of an unusual coin that would generate a lovely discussion.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 10, 2015 9:40PM

My opinion of coins is mine. A discussion of a coin in "auction" is often the 'topic of the day'. To me, it's an indication of bad form to accuse another of having bad form in a forum designed to do just that: Having a discussion. (oh, unless you're a prominent, and notorious figure…. then you can get away with slander, libel, etc.) Even false accusations.

Icollecteverything · January 10, 2015 10:32PM

As long as they are public auctions I don't see a problem, this is a coin discussion board. If it's a high dollar rare coin then the potential bidders should already know about it.

Nap · January 10, 2015 10:56PM

I'd go against the grain, and say it may be bad form in general to discuss a coin being auctioned, unless it is a classic rarity that is on its own generating considerable interest.

Say the coin was something less unique, like an EF bust half, or a GEM BU Morgan dollar. What possible reasons to discuss this coin prior to sale? If the question is about eye appeal, originality, quality of imaging, accurate grade representation, provenance, or price, these are things that would seem to influence the interest in the item. I feel that such conversations are best done privately.

On the other hand, if the question is authenticity, it may be appropriate to discuss that, but such conversations should involve the auctioneer.

EVillageProwler · January 10, 2015 11:02PM

Authenticity and accuracy of description issues aside, where is the harm in waiting to discuss the item until after it is no longer in play?

If a lively discussion is what we want, then it'll still happen. And, then, folks can also argue the hammer price.

EVP

PerryHall · January 10, 2015 11:12PM

<< I'd go against the grain, and say it may be bad form in general to discuss a coin being auctioned, unless it is a classic rarity that is on its own generating considerable interest.

Say the coin was something less unique, like an EF bust half, or a GEM BU Morgan dollar. What possible reasons to discuss this coin prior to sale? If the question is about eye appeal, originality, quality of imaging, accurate grade representation, provenance, or price, these are things that would seem to influence the interest in the item. I feel that such conversations are best done privately.

On the other hand, if the question is authenticity, it may be appropriate to discuss that, but such conversations should involve the auctioneer. >>

Most coins in an auction are not discussed here but occasionally there is an unusual or interesting coin that is worthy of discussion. Those that are already bidding on this coin may claim "it's bad form" or "there's an unwritten forum rule" when what they are really saying is "I'm bidding on this coin and I don't want any competition from my fellow forum members" which make them sound a little selfish and greedy. Just my humble opinion.

MGLICKER · January 10, 2015 11:16PM

I have on occasion posted a Heritage link to an interesting coin that may be of interest to the forum. See no negative to that as long as the poster has no interest in the item being sold.

CaptHenway · January 10, 2015 11:30PM

As long as you have no skin in the game on this coin, pun intended, I see no problem with publicizing something rare and wonderful like this. If the buyer ends up paying more because of it, then the seller receives more for it, making it a zero-sum effect.

I have seen a number of wonderful pieces on here because somebody said "Lookee here!"

winky · January 10, 2015 11:44PM

I don't have a problem with it as long as you don't bash or make fun of it. Respect the auction and have fun with all the forum members.

puffer · January 11, 2015 12:29AM

The more information the better. There have been questionable items on ebay that usually get pulled after comments on the forums. But sometimes you get ornery people that make mountains out of molehills. I have gotten emails of people questioning grade on items I am selling which is off base communication and rude IMO if the numismatics are graded.

ms70 · January 11, 2015 12:37AM

What's the difference if it's discussed here, over coffee while looking at the catalog, or on the bourse floor?

WildIdea · January 11, 2015 12:42AM

I had never heard of the Sheridan D bust auction, but thanks to a few mentions here I was turned onto it. Sounds like the coins get great prices. Also great exposure, so it's a double edge sword. A coin should go to who wants it the most although it's maddening sometimes to see folks with unlimited cash gaming the situation, it's just life. There are so many buying strategies and they don't always repeatedly work. At the end of the day it's not that hard to buy coins and we should be happy with what we get.

Can't say if it's bad form to say "check out the hidden variety on this coin in HA auction" and now folks step up to pay for it. Depends, everyone's motives are different and to be considered. I think it's more bad form to blame someone else for missing a buy. The wah wah folks can find another shoulder to cry on, I'm embarrassed for them and it's childish really.

OldEastside · January 11, 2015 12:52AM

Nah, even if its a 10 cent coin or a million dollar coin, I don't really see a problem at all !!!

Steve

rec78 · January 11, 2015 1:15AM

No, unless, of course, it is a coin that I want.

There is whining here sometimes when a coin is discussed that smoeone is looking to rip. On the other hand if they rip it, they then start a thread and brag about their "cherry-pick".

coinkat · January 11, 2015 1:25AM

Good question... I suppose folks can follow their own thoughts on the subject.

Personally, I think it depends. And I know that is not likely a helpful response. It really depends on the context in which it is being discussed. I think a discussion can easily cross the line and be considered bad form if it extends beyond an educational standpoint. And I don't include the education part to include a commentary on the grade or valuation as that discussion, from my perspective, does cross the line.

Cougar1978 · January 11, 2015 1:39AM

I see no problem with it being discussed at all especially if the discussion is educational to members or alerts members to either a good deal or an issue. However, users should be familiar with the forum user agreement before initiating such.

BAJJERFAN · January 11, 2015 1:55AM

<< I have on occasion posted a Heritage link to an interesting coin that may be of interest to the forum. See no negative to that as long as the poster has no interest in the item being sold. >>

So what if it's sorta disparaged here by someone with expertise as was sort of done here a number of years ago?

PerryHall · January 11, 2015 2:07AM

<< 

<< I have on occasion posted a Heritage link to an interesting coin that may be of interest to the forum. See no negative to that as long as the poster has no interest in the item being sold. >>

So what if it's sorta disparaged here by someone with expertise as was sort of done here a number of years ago? >>

Was this the coin that was for sale by a forum member who is a coin dealer that was priced at multiples of price guide values for the assigned slabbed grade?

BillJones · January 11, 2015 2:40AM

I think that it is generally bad form to discuss lots that are in an auction here with a couple of exceptions.

First if the item is a counterfeit, all bets are off. It should be reported.

Second, If the item grossly miss described pointing that out is also reasonable.

Praising an item to the skies is not always a good thing, especially when it is spam or there is some other ulterior purpose for doing it.

ricko · January 11, 2015 2:48AM

This is a discussion board, and as long as it is not spamming, it is fair game....I see no problem with discussing a live auction...Cheers, RickO

PerryHall · January 11, 2015 2:53AM

<< I think that it is generally bad form to discuss lots that are in an auction here with a couple of exceptions.

First if the item is a counterfeit, all bets are off. It should be reported.

Second, If the item grossly miss described pointing that out is also reasonable.

Praising an item to the skies is not always a good thing, especially when it is spam or there is some other ulterior purpose for doing it. >>

What if the coin is just interesting or unusual and you want to share it with other forum members for discussion in a "show-and-tell" fashoin?

BAJJERFAN · January 11, 2015 3:06AM

<< 

<< 

<< I have on occasion posted a Heritage link to an interesting coin that may be of interest to the forum. See no negative to that as long as the poster has no interest in the item being sold. >>

So what if it's sorta disparaged here by someone with expertise as was sort of done here a number of years ago? >>

Was this the coin that was for sale by a forum member who is a coin dealer that was priced at multiples of price guide values for the assigned slabbed grade? >>

IIRC it was a 1909-S VDB in a Heritage auction.

crypto79 · January 11, 2015 3:18AM

<< This is a discussion board, and as long as it is not spamming, it is fair game....I see no problem with discussing a live auction...Cheers, RickO >>

Once again Ricko eloquently states what I consider to be the commonsense answer.

pakasmom · January 11, 2015 3:40AM

I try to err on the side of being considerate of others. And I think that was the point BustHalfBrian was trying to make.

But the reality is that the auctions can be viewed on-line, and anyone and everyone in the world can see them.

I think it's ludicrous to suggest it's poor form to discuss them.

TheRegulator · January 11, 2015 5:26AM

Absolutely, it is bad form.

As EVP noted, if it is so interesting and worthy of discussion, it will still be so in 3, 7, 10, or 30 days. The refusal to just hold tight and wait a few days seems pretty selfish and greedy to me. Sure, it's not illegal and no one will probably do anything about it, but perhaps think twice about potentially screwing up a dedicated collector's chances of acquiring a dream piece.

ColonelJessup · January 11, 2015 5:51AM

Fakes, etc? Of course.

Otherwise, I consider it gross bad form. There are exceptions beyond the $100,000 range. Or in special circumstances like MoCab. I could tolerate up-grade stories with auction photos.

However, if it was consigned by myself or a friend (and you would not know), why should I not pimp it? By an enemy? I will crap on it. And If I want to buy it, I will double-crap on it.

Based on the current guidelines, of which there are none.... First Amendment at the OK Corral. . .

I will discuss any coin a bit in a PM, in person or on the phone with a Forum member in my own Circle of Trust. Free opinions, but within limits that are conscionable to me.

I may have higher motives, but my responses to a recent "Should I buy this 1916 PCGS MS66FH" stopped when I realized I could materially affect the consignor's interest. Had a minor epiphany on this. Actually, forgot something when lost in selfish thinking.

EVP's point about waiting till after the auction ignores the drama of pre-sale speculation. It is reasonable and fair. So semi-worthless........

YMMV

Sonorandesertrat · January 11, 2015 5:58AM

"And If I want to buy it, I will double-crap on it."

CJ, You really need to offer an ANA summer seminar on how to be a coin dealer.
I continue to find your offhand comments entertaining....and revealing.

TopographicOceans · January 11, 2015 6:09AM

One of the most enjoyable aspects of the hobby is the hunt.

With this forum's limited scope it can have a negative affect to someone who has found a coin through their own research and is sitting on it waiting for the auction to end, an announcement here can cause them to pay a higher amount then they otherwise would have - or lose the coin altogether to a higher bidder that wouldn't have appeared had it not have been posted here.

AMRC · January 11, 2015 6:12AM

I do not agree it is in "bad form" to discuss a coin in auction. It would seem only those who are looking for "rip" would think so. This is forum. It is to have meaningful conversations about coins. Should you see a coin that warrants such a conversation on this board, your ability to have such a discussion, and that should not be limited beyond the rules of this forum. And excuse me if I missed it, but this is not one of them.

PerryHall · January 11, 2015 7:32AM

<< "And If I want to buy it, I will double-crap on it."

CJ, You really need to offer an ANA summer seminar on how to be a coin dealer.
I continue to find your offhand comments entertaining....and revealing.

>>

Revealing or revolting?

Goldbully · January 11, 2015 7:34AM

There are exceptions beyond the $100,000 range.

Then I guess it's OK to post this 1907 EX-HR Saint PR69 graded.

BIN: $4,100,000.00

eBay Link

CoinJunkie · January 11, 2015 7:38AM

<< I do not agree it is in "bad form" to discuss a coin in auction. >>

I wonder how you'd feel if you had consigned the coin, and one or more forum participants made negative comments
about it here.

PerryHall · January 11, 2015 7:38AM

<< Authenticity and accuracy of description issues aside, where is the harm in waiting to discuss the item until after it is no longer in play?

If a lively discussion is what we want, then it'll still happen. And, then, folks can also argue the hammer price.

EVP >>

What if the coin is outside your collecting area but is particularly nice or interesting and you want to alert your fellow forum members in case someone here may want to buy it? Or, should all good deeds be punished?

ColonelJessup · January 11, 2015 7:39AM

I'd like all potential bidders to know that the Muscat/Oman-Childs-Pogue 1804 $1 has hairlines. My customer is on a budget. . .

BAJJERFAN · January 11, 2015 7:42AM

<< 

<< I do not agree it is in "bad form" to discuss a coin in auction. >>

I wonder how you'd feel if you had consigned the coin, and one or more forum participants made negative comments
about it here. >>

If the comments were warranted and kept someone from overpaying or getting stuck with a turd I see no issue with it. How is that any worse than an auction house putting up crappy or juiced pics or conveniently omitting details?

ColonelJessup · January 11, 2015 7:45AM

<< 

<< "And If I want to buy it, I will double-crap on it."

CJ, You really need to offer an ANA summer seminar on how to be a coin dealer.
I continue to find your offhand comments entertaining....and revealing.

>>

Revealing or revolting?

>>

Robin Williams must be spinning in his grave over my futile attempts at satire. . . . .

. . . .

PerryHall · January 11, 2015 7:48AM

<< 

<< I do not agree it is in "bad form" to discuss a coin in auction. >>

I wonder how you'd feel if you had consigned the coin, and one or more forum participants made negative comments
about it here. >>

How would the seller feel if the coin was complimented with flowery praise? It works both ways. If a nice coin is unfairly criticized there are enough forum members here that would vehemently disagree. We're an independent bunch here.

CoinJunkie · January 11, 2015 7:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< I do not agree it is in "bad form" to discuss a coin in auction. >>

I wonder how you'd feel if you had consigned the coin, and one or more forum participants made negative comments
about it here. >>

If the comments were warranted and kept someone from overpaying or getting stuck with a turd I see no issue with it. How is that any worse than an auction house putting up crappy or juiced pics or conveniently omitting details? >>

IMHO, one shouldn't bid on a coin without either seeing it in hand or having a trusted agent see it.
Crappy photos seem to be the rule rather than the exception. Conversely, forumites who trash a
particular auction lot are most likely to be doing so based on the images, which makes the practice
all the more dubious.

CoinJunkie · January 11, 2015 7:52AM

<< How would the seller feel if the coin was complimented with flowery praise? >>

I'm sure they'd feel great about that. Of course, others would likely protest that the person(s)
praising the coin were friends of the seller, etc. Generally, while I do personally believe that
it's bad form to comment either way, it's not something I lose any sleep over.

BStrauss3 · January 11, 2015 1:14PM

I recall a case recently where we were discussing the old ANACS small white holders and I did mention that an interesting s/n was for sale on eBay. Since I was bidding on it, I didn't give the auction# so nobody could snipe me. I mentioned it at all because it was relevant to the discussion at that time - and a month later would have been stale.

An auction is a public event and I can't see how there is an issue with discussing it. Trash talking and puffery too is well within the norm, going back 100s of years. As is obfuscation. All's fair in love, war and auctions.

Justlooking · January 11, 2015 3:41PM

Generally, I'd say it's a no-no, but that potty dollar is so outlandish, I don't think it's a problem.

If you talk about an item here, you're alerting potential bidders who could increase the price of the piece. I think very few people on this forum would be seriously interested in buying that potty dollar.

TommyType · January 11, 2015 4:48PM

I'm on the fence.

I caught some flack not too long ago for "messing with a possible cherry pick" by linking to an auction, and asking some questions.

My first reaction to the flack was, "$%@! you! I'm just making conversation, and looking for some opinions!"

On the other hand, there's no way for forum members to KNOW that I wasn't the owner, and wasn't pimping the auction. (I wasn't....I've never sold a coin at auction). But if they don't KNOW that, then it's probably not a good idea to get involved at all.

So, I will probably back off in the future....but on the other hand, I'm not going to harass people for good questions and good conversation starters.

Is it bad form to discuss a coin being auctioned?

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