1987 Constitution modern pattern coin

Zoins · December 14, 2014 10:51AM

A 1987 modern pattern (P5460) just sold for $968.65 with 9 bidders and 19 bids.

Nice to see these patterns slabbed by PCGS with CoinFacts photos.

19Lyds · December 14, 2014 10:55AM

<< A 1987 modern pattern (P5460) just sold for $968.65 with 9 bids and 19 bidders.

Nice to see these patterns slabbed by PCGS with CoinFacts photos.

>>

What was it a pattern for? Which coin?

Zoins · December 14, 2014 11:00AM

<< What was it a pattern for? Which coin? >>

This one:

Zoins · December 14, 2014 11:06AM

There was a competition for the design of this coin with 11 outside and 6 Mint artists / sculptors.

The pattern is by Frederick Richard Zinkann.

The selected design is by Marcel Jovine.

Bodin · December 14, 2014 11:13AM

The right design won, IMO

Zoins · December 14, 2014 11:20AM

<< The right design won, IMO >>

I like the winning design as well.

I wonder who the other participants were and what other designs were considered.

CaptHenway · December 14, 2014 12:53PM

<< The right design won, IMO >>

Davideo · December 14, 2014 1:47PM

Interesting that pattern only says "Half Eagle" and doesn't have $5 on it.

MsMorrisine · December 14, 2014 1:55PM

In all seriousness, they may not have wanted to put a denomination on a pattern coin.

BustHalfBrian · December 14, 2014 4:43PM

88 pieces struck in Tungsten? I would like to see that.

And what the heck is "Hafnium"? I got a D in highschool Chemistry.

Zoins · December 14, 2014 4:52PM

<< 88 pieces struck in Tungsten? I would like to see that.

And what the heck is "Hafnium"? I got a D in highschool Chemistry. >>

Given how weak the Tungsten strikes came out, I'm surprised they struck so many.

Hafnium (Hf) is atomic number 72. It was named after Hafnia, the Latin name for Copenhagen, where it was discovered.

dcarr · December 14, 2014 5:31PM

I find it interesting that this privately-minted "concept" coin is listed at USPatterns.com .
Several years ago I was told that the concept dollars I minted of my Sacagawea Dollar design (which was one of seven official finalists in the US Mint contest) was not eligible for listing.
Perhaps that could be revisited and maybe I should contact USPatterns again

Zoins · December 14, 2014 5:39PM

<< I find it interesting that this privately-minted "concept" coin is listed at USPatterns.com .
Several years ago I was told that the concept dollars I minted of my Sacagawea Dollar design (which was one of seven official finalists in the US Mint contest) was not eligible for listing.
Perhaps that could be revisited and maybe I should contact USPatterns again

>>

Zinkann is quoted as saying he "submitted the coin to the Bureau of the Mint and sent one to Rep. D'Annunzio in the autumn of 1986, but received rejections from both these sources on getting the design adopted." Perhaps a metal striking needs to be considered by the Mint for it to be listed in Pollock?

Of interest, some of the Ron Landis proposals were requested by and distributed to Congressmen for consideration but perhaps Pollock requires the pieces to be considered by the Mint, not Congress.

Would be interesting to have some of your pieces and those of Ron Landis listed at USPatterns. Can't hurt to try

edix2001 · December 14, 2014 8:02PM

I came up with a design proposal that I made on a computer for one of the US Constitution commems back then. I probably still have it somewhere. It featured overlapping profiles of four founding fathers. And over 40 years ago I made a design for a coin commemorating the bicentennial of the founding of the US.

MWallace · December 14, 2014 8:09PM

Before the book was sent to the publisher, I tried to get THESE listed in Pollock. It was rejected because there is no design. While I understand that argument, I still feel they should've been listed. Just my opinion.

I've also never understood why the Feuchtwanger pieces aren't listed in pattern books.

ricko · December 14, 2014 9:23PM

I like the design that won....Cheers, RickO

ms70 · December 14, 2014 10:47PM

I'm glad the pattern is preserved. But I am shocked at the price it went for. I'd have thought it would've gone much higher. Is there any information on how the mint passed this
into private hands? Just curious.

ms70 · December 14, 2014 10:48PM

<< I came up with a design proposal that I made on a computer for one of the US Constitution commems back then. I probably still have it somewhere. It featured overlapping profiles of four founding fathers. And over 40 years ago I made a design for a coin commemorating the bicentennial of the founding of the US. >>

Can you make a thread for them and post pics? I'd love to see them. I'm sure others would too.

edix2001 · December 14, 2014 11:52PM

<< 

<< I came up with a design proposal that I made on a computer for one of the US Constitution commems back then. I probably still have it somewhere. It featured overlapping profiles of four founding fathers. And over 40 years ago I made a design for a coin commemorating the bicentennial of the founding of the US. >>

Can you make a thread for them and post pics? I'd love to see them. I'm sure others would too. >>

Unfortunately, my 1776 bicentennial design is long gone and I currently cannot locate my Constitution bicentennial design.
Additionally, I had also made a series of designs requested by Ken Bressett for his World Peace 2000 coin program back in the 1990s. The proposed design element would have been recommended to be included on all participating countries' circulating coinage as a tiny addition to their standard designs. These I cannot readily locate either. This personal history may help explain my interest in the works of independent coin designers, like Carr, Landis, von NoHaus and other contemporaries who have patterned our coins into the 21st century.
What I can show, are two 2012 designs of mine for fantasy nation coins. One was commissioned by the Blue Waters Mint in Cypress, TX for a one gram silver coin, which was minted by Tom Maringer in Arkansas, and my very own stickered wooden nickel for my own sovereign nation of The Peaceable Kingdom of Leviathan, and which is denominated as a nockel or a mockle.
I may not have all the talent, resources and opportunities compared to successful designers, but I'm simply a hobbyist whose interest never seems to fade.

ms70 · December 15, 2014 12:02AM

Nice. Thanks for posting them.

Another thing as far as U.S. patterns like the one the OP posted, I hope somewhere the government archived related documents about the designs so they are preserved as well.

Zoins · December 15, 2014 1:29AM

<< Before the book was sent to the publisher, I tried to get THESE listed in Pollock. It was rejected because there is no design. While I understand that argument, I still feel they should've been listed. Just my opinion.

I've also never understood why the Feuchtwanger pieces aren't listed in pattern books. >>

I think there is a similarity between the Vereinige Deutsche Metallwerke pieces, Feuchtwanger pieces and Gallery Mint pieces:

namely that all 3 appear to have had metal strikings presented to and considered by Congress but not the Mint. Given that Congress authorizes coins, it's an interesting distinction.

Zoins · December 15, 2014 1:48AM

<< I'm glad the pattern is preserved. But I am shocked at the price it went for. I'd have thought it would've gone much higher. Is there any information on how the mint passed this into private hands? Just curious. >>

I think the price is reasonable. There were about 100 P5460s (silver composition) minted and Robert Rozycki of Sycamore Coin Gallery in Sycamore, IL acquired about half of them so there may be quite a few out there.

edix2001 · December 15, 2014 2:26AM

<< 

<< Before the book was sent to the publisher, I tried to get THESE listed in Pollock. It was rejected because there is no design. While I understand that argument, I still feel they should've been listed. Just my opinion.

I've also never understood why the Feuchtwanger pieces aren't listed in pattern books. >>

I think there is a similarity between the Vereinige Deutsche Metallwerke pieces, Feuchtwanger pieces and Gallery Mint pieces:

namely that all 3 appear to have had metal strikings presented to and considered by Congress but not the Mint. Given that Congress authorizes coins, it's an interesting distinction. >>

According to the late Verne Walrafen's website, the Gallery Mint Museum's 1998 Flowing Hair dollar prototype coins were distributed to "mint directors".

pruebas · December 15, 2014 3:25AM

I've got one of these in tungsten for sale if anyone is interested in it. Please send PM.

Sorry to spam the thread.

edix2001 · December 15, 2014 3:31AM

Seems like minimum space between the words "STATES" and "of" on that modern pattern.

kiyote · December 15, 2014 3:41AM

This is a good chance to revisit the winning design, which is just awesome. It's about the most common $5 modern commem, too.

BillJones · December 15, 2014 5:35AM

The 1987 Constitution set was one of those "beauty and the beast" sets. The "beauty" was the $5 gold, which was a really nice design. The "beast" was that awful dollar that had the people in colonial garb lined up like bowling pins on the reverse. The only dollar that was worse was the 1988 Olympic dollar, which wasted a lot of space with the Olympic flaming getting passed on the obverse that totally banal reverse with the Olympic rings and partially surrounded by a "Charlie Brown" (like his Christmas tree) olive wreath. That was also a "beauty and the beast" set.

If the powers at be on the Constitutional coin committee had selected that pattern design, they would have had two beasts in the set IMO.

Zoins · December 15, 2014 2:16PM

<< 

<< 

<< Before the book was sent to the publisher, I tried to get THESE listed in Pollock. It was rejected because there is no design. While I understand that argument, I still feel they should've been listed. Just my opinion.

I've also never understood why the Feuchtwanger pieces aren't listed in pattern books. >>

I think there is a similarity between the Vereinige Deutsche Metallwerke pieces, Feuchtwanger pieces and Gallery Mint pieces:

namely that all 3 appear to have had metal strikings presented to and considered by Congress but not the Mint. Given that Congress authorizes coins, it's an interesting distinction. >>

According to the late Verne Walrafen's website, the Gallery Mint Museum's 1998 Flowing Hair dollar prototype coins were distributed to "mint directors".

>>

Is there any record of who received the coins and whether they were formally considered or not? Might be worthwhile to ask Ron if he has any records of who they were sent to and any correspondence.

It seems like Fred got a letter from the US Mint saying his piece was evaluated which may have been used as a reason for inclusion in Pollock.

Zoins · December 15, 2014 2:21PM

Here's this auction record along with the ones from Heritage:

1) P5450 gold NGC MS63: $940.00 Oct 9, 2014
2) P5460 silver: $968.65 Dec 14, 2014
3) P5465 tungsten NGC MS63: $381.88 Aug 9, 2013
4) P5465 tungsten NGC MS62: $747.50 Feb 5, 2010
5) P5465 tungsten NGC MS61: $69.00 Oct 13, 2014

Interesting that the silver piece with a mintage of 100 sold for more than the gold piece with a mintage of 6 approximately 2 months apart.

Zoins · December 15, 2014 2:25PM

<< This is a good chance to revisit the winning design, which is just awesome. It's about the most common $5 modern commem, too. >>

I agree it's awesome. I really love the stylized eagle on this piece. Very artistic IMO.

Treashunt · December 15, 2014 11:18PM

Very neat modern pattern

Zoins · July 30, 2015 4:39PM

I recently ran across the following medal by Marcel Jovine from MACO, interestingly also from 1987, that reminded me much of the winning design. I'm a big fan of how the eagle's wing pushes up against the edge of the face in both designs.

1987 Constitution modern pattern coin

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