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Why Coin dealers drink part CCCCXXI (Thanks CaptHenway!)
AMRC
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I did a small show in the San Fernando Valley yesterday. An elderly gentleman came by my table and was very interested in my Morgans. For those of you who know me, I try and stock some very nice coins in that department. I could see him looking at all my coins and he was clearly interested in several. Some of you may remember my earlier thread, but for those of you who do not, I have switched everything to pretty much net pricing and have the coins priced on the front of the slab. While some people think my prices are high, they tend to be the folks that do not place much of a premium on nice CAC coins. However, I try very hard to keep my prices at or around the actual Heritage Auction selling prices.
Anyway the guy is really interested in a coin that I have listed for $735. A nice, blast white, CAC stickered, luster slathered, MS66 piece of eye candy. He asks to see the coin which I show him eagerly. He then hands me back the coin after a few moments without saying much, so I said to him "pretty nice huh?" He says "it's OK'" but you are asking way too much. I said "really?" and pulled up Heritage Auction records to make sure I did not make a mistake (yes it has been known to happen). In the mean time he shares with me that he has spent $20,000 on coins this month already, and has plans to buy a coin that he thinks is great deal at $5,600 that a dealer had marked at $6,100. So I say to myself, wow, big spender I better do the best I can. Turns out my coin is within a few dollars of what they have sold for recently according to Heritage. So I explain I need to stay firm at my price and he says "no way, I go by what is in this book and it says you are high" referencing a Redbook in his hand. Now beating out a Redbook is really not all that hard to do, so it got me wondering. I ask him the details of his "good deal" $5,600 coin and see the last two sold for right around $5,000 each. So now I just had to ask him.... "Why are you going to pay $5,600 for a coin that you can get at auction readily (nice white coins) for about $5,000, is it CAC'ed?" He said "no, I don't care about no little green sticker."
It was now time for the Infamous "hmmmmm."
I finally asked him to see the Redbook he was quoting out of, and as you may have guessed it, it was from 2009! So I figured I had this coin thing all wrong. What I need to do is follow this guy around and figure out how he could buy $20,000 worth of MS66 Morgans at 2009 Red Book Prices for MS65 money since the Redbook does not even list MS66 Prices! This guy is good!
Gulp, gulp.
Anyway the guy is really interested in a coin that I have listed for $735. A nice, blast white, CAC stickered, luster slathered, MS66 piece of eye candy. He asks to see the coin which I show him eagerly. He then hands me back the coin after a few moments without saying much, so I said to him "pretty nice huh?" He says "it's OK'" but you are asking way too much. I said "really?" and pulled up Heritage Auction records to make sure I did not make a mistake (yes it has been known to happen). In the mean time he shares with me that he has spent $20,000 on coins this month already, and has plans to buy a coin that he thinks is great deal at $5,600 that a dealer had marked at $6,100. So I say to myself, wow, big spender I better do the best I can. Turns out my coin is within a few dollars of what they have sold for recently according to Heritage. So I explain I need to stay firm at my price and he says "no way, I go by what is in this book and it says you are high" referencing a Redbook in his hand. Now beating out a Redbook is really not all that hard to do, so it got me wondering. I ask him the details of his "good deal" $5,600 coin and see the last two sold for right around $5,000 each. So now I just had to ask him.... "Why are you going to pay $5,600 for a coin that you can get at auction readily (nice white coins) for about $5,000, is it CAC'ed?" He said "no, I don't care about no little green sticker."
It was now time for the Infamous "hmmmmm."
I finally asked him to see the Redbook he was quoting out of, and as you may have guessed it, it was from 2009! So I figured I had this coin thing all wrong. What I need to do is follow this guy around and figure out how he could buy $20,000 worth of MS66 Morgans at 2009 Red Book Prices for MS65 money since the Redbook does not even list MS66 Prices! This guy is good!
Gulp, gulp.
4
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<< <i>Whenever people brag about how much money they spend (elsewhere), my BS meter pings loudly. In my experience, these types always ask for wholesale discounts on single or small amounts of material, chisel the most (on already fair prices) and then try to come up with "creative" trades (no I don't want your hockey card collection) in lieu of cash. >>
Very funny, I left off the part about him wanting to trade a coin I can buy all day long for $120 for the $150 he paid for it, and he wanted the full $150, and a substantial discount beyond that.
<< <i>That guy must go to every show I set up at
James, now that is funny
Rainbow Stars
Sometimes the dragon wins
back in 1993 (I think), a common tactic of the
folks in the huge crowds that showed up was this:
I had a quantity of a item that I thought would be
a good selling item at that show. Thru a translator,
one guy continually asked for 'my best price for
50 pcs.", then, after giving it to him, asked again
and again for my best price 'on all of them'.
After what seemed to be 15-20 minutes of haggling
(probably only 6-8 minutes without stopping!) he
got my best price for all approx. 150 pcs. - everything
I brought with me.
His next words were: "OK, I'll take one", and then all
the crowds behind him started not only yelling (in Chinese)
that they wanted one too (at that price), but actually
started throwing money at me to pay for it!
Quite a scene, and a good lesson - one of many I learned
at that show......
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>Anyway the guy is really interested in a coin that I have listed for $735. A nice, blast white, CAC stickered, luster slathered, MS66 piece of eye candy. >>
Was it a better date coin? Kind of rich for a common.
Great to see you posting....
Yea, I did most of the Hong Kong shows back then,
and it was always 'informative' to see their negotiating
tactics!
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
TD
… More deals are lost on "the dickering" than the "haggling"
I would sell just about any Morgan I own right now at 2009 Redbook pricing.
What is the date of the MS66 Morgan?
Also, do you have his contact info? Boy do I have some deals for him!
<< <i>I think the official number would be CDXXI..... add that one to reasons to drink!
As I expressed in an early drink thread, I am using medieval Roman Numerals, which often used four of a letter rather than a subtracting letter.
<< <i>Quite a scene, and a good lesson - one of many I learned
at that show...... >>
good grief. that would have been frustrating.
it is stories like that which completely remind me how ironic it is how hard we (i'm including everyone) try to save a few bucks from time to time yet arbitrarily "overspend" "throw away" money on so much other useless "stuff/purposes."
when i sit and think about it honestly, how i perceive money, i can't think of a single time it didn't just blow me away.
i can recall numerous occasions when i've explained to someone that i give certain prices to certain people because of the relationship that is established or attempted to be established and i've had people do the same with me on numerous occasions. i wouldn't say it happens a lot but it happens often enough to mention. this includes dealers, friends and retail clients.
so i guess my post isn't a why dealers drink in a bad way but more in a merry way. they end up drinking nonetheless.
.
<< <i>Whenever people brag about how much money they spend (elsewhere), my BS meter pings loudly. In my experience, these types always ask for wholesale discounts on single or small amounts of material, chisel the most (on already fair prices) and then try to come up with "creative" trades (no I don't want your hockey card collection) in lieu of cash. >>
Man, this SO rings a bell for me but in retail enviroment for me. I work at the major home improvement chain. It is stunning to me how many homeowners purportedly spend thousand of dollars a week in my store so they are entitled to the "contractor discount" on the wasp spray they are ringing up.
<< <i>
<< <i>Whenever people brag about how much money they spend (elsewhere), my BS meter pings loudly. In my experience, these types always ask for wholesale discounts on single or small amounts of material, chisel the most (on already fair prices) and then try to come up with "creative" trades (no I don't want your hockey card collection) in lieu of cash. >>
Man, this SO rings a bell for me but in retail enviroment for me. I work at the major home improvement chain. It is stunning to me how many homeowners purportedly spend thousand of dollars a week in my store so they are entitled to the "contractor discount" on the wasp spray they are ringing up. >>
I'd be so tempted to mess with them..
"Okay, you qualify for the contractor wholesale discount, regular price is $6.99, marked down to $4.50..."
Customer eagerly pulls out their wallet
"..times 48 for a full case. That comes to $216 please!"
>
Local cheapskate comes into a local hardware store up in rural New Hampshire. Says he needs an axe to clear out a tree that fell up against his house. The Yankee storekeeper pulls out an axe and says "That'll be $4.99." The cheapskate says "I can get that from the Sears catalogue for $3.50! You should sell it to me for that!"
The storekeeper, knowing that the other locals sitting around the potbelly stove are watching him, says "OK, but you would have to pay 50 cents to Sears for the shipping, so I'll have to charge you that." The cheapskate grumbles but says "Yeah, you're right. I'll pay it" and hands over the $4.
The storekeeper writes up a ticket and rings up the $4. The cheapskate starts to pick up the axe but the storekeeper takes it back and puts it on the back shelf and says: "You can have it in two weeks, same as from Sears!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool
Hilarious!
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As a dealer I have had this happen more than you can believe.
Some carry greysheets from years ago or blue books from 2000.
At the FUN show I put out some Mercury dime and had them net priced sold to both public and dealers!
Years ago, I took the Karass Negotiating seminar... learned a great deal there... also covered Arab and Asian negotiating tactics.... I can truthfully say, this was one learning experience that truly affected my life.... Have used those skills repeatedly in business as well as private life over the years. Cheers, RickO
I had an ebay dealer buyer make an offer over Greysheet then berate me for not taking their offer. So instead of just upping their offer I kept getting these "offer declined" notices and new somewhat higher offers saying my Trueview image was not the coin, etc., why wasn't I accepting their last and final offer, etc.? Meanwhile experts I consulted said the coin was worth more than 50% over what I was asking, but before I could pull the coin off they were able to buy it.
Yes definitely a time to either hit the bottle, get out for recreation or an AA meeting if you have that problem.
I agree.
He's a time traveler