Dead stock.

keets · October 13, 2014 10:02PM

I am firm in my belief that overall sales of coins have been slow for several years now, due mainly to two major influences --- the upswing in Precious Metals and the fact that the trend has persisted for well over a decade. The result has been a migration of many collectors and casual hobbyists away from coins and into Silver/Gold where they feel they can make money, not an unrealistic belief. What this has meant is a glut of unsold/unsellable material for an average Shop or part-time Vest Pocket type of dealer who does weekend shows. I first began to notice it around 2006-7 when I was attending quite a number of shows in the area up/down the Ohio-Pennsylvania state line as well as the occasional large show around the Eastern US. I realize that's a small sampling but what I noticed was the same stuff in the same cases. It has only gotten worse.

Have you noticed anything similar in your locale?? What do you do to not get bored or dismayed at smaller shows? Where all those coins go, who will end up with them? How does a situation like this reflect on prices offered when customers go to sell marginal coins/collection with only a few nice pieces and the bulk being what some call dreck and what I call more dsc's ---dead stock candidates?? On a side note, I have noticed that nice coins don't have a chance when things are like this, they get snapped up in a hurry and almost no one sees them.

Al H.

crypto79 · October 13, 2014 10:11PM

Honestly I do not think it is a new phenomenon. Yes there are large groups of dead inventory where the only buyer would be a noob or sucker as no dealer or in-the-know collector would touch it and they sit and sit but this is nothing new. I saw the same flips in the same double row boxes or the 2x2s in binders while surfing B&M / shows back in the day.

I think the difference now is these coins are trackable where back then they all blended togeather. Also some dealers might have taken a chance as there were more regional markets back then and one person's problem coin was another's perfect filler.

PerryHall · October 13, 2014 10:17PM

Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right.

MGLICKER · October 13, 2014 10:21PM

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

Agree.

lordmarcovan · October 13, 2014 10:36PM

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

This.

I just dumped a few of my antique mall leftovers (flea markety junk, for the most part) onto eBay in small lots.

99¢ true auctions, let 'em rip and let the chips fall where they may. Better to get something off of it than have it clutter up a drawer for another couple of years.

That's the beauty of a true auction. Stuff can't go unsold if the starting bid is low enough. It will find its real value. Plus, that draws in more bidders and occasionally the stuff does better than expected. (But if you lose a bit on your lower-end dreck, so be it. At least you moved it.)

Boosibri · October 13, 2014 10:49PM

Dead stock has been dead for a lot longer than 2006-2007. I would attribute this less to precious metals and more towards the advent of grading services, CAC and the general shift in the market tone towards quality and affluence vs. hole filling.

There could be a mass cull of the lower 1/3rd of the surviving raw populations and the whole market would be better off for it.

I think precious metals will in fact bring new people into the hobby (hey that is how I got started). While more of the pie may be flowing to PM's right now, the pie has gotten bigger.

PerryHall · October 13, 2014 10:55PM

<< 

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

This.

I just dumped a few of my antique mall leftovers (flea markety junk, for the most part) onto eBay in small lots.

99¢ true auctions, let 'em rip and let the chips fall where they may. Better to get something off of it than have it clutter up a drawer for another couple of years.

That's the beauty of a true auction. Stuff can't go unsold if the starting bid is low enough. It will find its real value. Plus, that draws in more bidders and occasionally the stuff does better than expected. (But if you lose a bit on your lower-end dreck, so be it. At least you moved it.) >>

You're a smart business man and are doing it the right way. I've see enough B&M coin dealers and coin show dealers that have the same coins year after year. I guess some of them think they are operating a museum.

DoubleEagle59 · October 13, 2014 10:57PM

Here in Canada, the collector has been hit with a 'double whammy' of set backs that has our Canadian coin in a 'depression' since 2008.

Let me explain.....

In 2008 when the Financial Crisis occurred, the Canadian coin market, especially for higher end coins completely vanished.

In the next couple of years, when the run-up of precious metals was happening, everyone at our coin shows was buying silver and gold bullion and 1 ounce coins. No one was buying collector coins.

Then in late 2011 (I believe) when the PM market started to crash, the same collector who got burned in 2008, got burned again with their PM purchases at higher than market purchase prices.

So here they sit today, with their lifetime coin collection losing money and their fairly recent PM purchases that have lost money too.

Not a great outlook for today's market.

Couple this with an aging of the collector base and the Canadian coin market is still very depressed.

Oh and by the way.....when I attend coin shows, I pass over about half the dealers because they are still asking pre 2008 prices and the same coins are in their showcases year after year after year.

lasvegasteddy · October 13, 2014 10:58PM

surely mitigating influences are to play with budgets...
"we have to pass this bill to know what's in it" type of stuff is becoming more prevalent and "SKERRY"
let's face it..."obama-coin-care" is in swing..."OCC"...hmmm

like lordmarcovan says though...cutting ones losses on dead inventory could pay dividends as high end stuff will be feeling the softness of the market and really great coins can be had below premiums so "cash up" for better things at better prices

any business that doesn't take stock of their inventory is bound to regret it

not to sure how flow of those going out compares to those going in...in this hobby of kings...will play-out
most who are fond of coins had great change to search from
now we got chuckee cheese crap passed as coins from the mint to us for our pockets...no wild buffaloes or wheaties or regular basis...even silver is about gone from pockets

oh well
i'm just a bottom feeder collector who still hopes to score some here n there's and build a lil sweet core collection of non run of the mill "dead-ends"

lasvegasteddy · October 13, 2014 11:01PM

i'd think most coin dealers have made so much $$$ on single pieces out of collections bought that their "fluff inventory" was free anyway
so they probably don't even give a second thought about their fluff stuff

SullivanNumismatics · October 13, 2014 11:04PM

<< 

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

Agree. >>

I 100% agree. If you're not selling coins, your asking too much, or at least that's true for run-of-the-mill coins. If you insist on asking prices which are above the current market, prepare to sit on your inventory until the market demand returns.

Sonorandesertrat · October 13, 2014 11:27PM

Want to make a sale? Be more realistic about pricing. I know many experienced dealers, people who survived numerous down markets. Their secret: pricing that reflects the realities of the market. They make money by selling dreck too. There is a guy who has owned a B&M business in my city for decades, and I don't think he carries $1,000 coins at all. His stock consists of what I call 'starter coins.'

"Dead stock has been dead for a lot longer than 2006-2007. I would attribute this less to precious metals and more towards the advent of grading services, CAC and the general shift in the market tone towards quality and affluence vs. hole filling."
Part of the reason for the establishment of CAC was to put some distance between CAC-quality coins and the rest. The TPGs had an even more profound effect, running many doctored coins out of much of the marketplace---you don't see the numbers of whizzed/polished/etc. coins that were all over the place 40 years ago. At least 40% of the coins I have seen at various venues since I returned to active collecting in 2007 could disappear, and few would care. The cost of assembling traditional date/MM sets has risen to the point where many collectors cannot afford them and have switched to type sets or subsets that focus on one MM or a few years (e.g., the Civil War era); this has influenced marketability too.

Some other reasons for slow sales: the internet offers more choices and more information for consumers; many collectors of modestly priced coins simply cannot afford to continue buying them, due to economic circumstances; and increasing numbers of collectors have become aware that there is a cost to buying coins at retail that typically cannot be overcome by simply holding for a few years. There are collectors who bought coins at prior market highs and are still buried in them. Only a small percentage of collectors make money in numismatics.

agentjim007 · October 13, 2014 11:32PM

Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right.

I agree, there is NO dead stock at a certain price.

brg5658 · October 13, 2014 11:38PM

Hmmm...I thought I posted already in my sleep, but SullivanNumismatics is just using my avatar...

BUT, to answer your question, yes, I have experienced the same thing. And, I don't think it's limited to small regional shows. It's also prevalent in very large dealer inventories and to some extent you could even say it's seen on Heritage. I can't tell you how many of the exact same item I see back up for auction within 1 year of original purchase on Heritage.

PerryHall · October 13, 2014 11:51PM

I know dealers that, when buried in an expensive coin, would rather sit on that coin for years than sell it for a loss. I guess it's an ego thing but it can't believe it would be considered a good business practice.

MGLICKER · October 13, 2014 11:56PM

<< I know dealers that, when buried in an expensive coin, would rather sit on that coin for years than sell it for a loss. I guess it's an ego thing but it can't believe it would be considered a good business practice. >>

I have done it. Have an error Cent that I overpaid for by a factor of two. See no reason to liquidate as the money is not needed and I kind of like the coin.

Strategy works ok for a coin or two. Lock up your whole inventory and you are done.

WildIdea · October 13, 2014 11:57PM

<< 

<< 

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

Agree. >>

I 100% agree. If you're not selling coins, your asking too much, or at least that's true for run-of-the-mill coins. If you insist on asking prices which are above the current market, prepare to sit on your inventory until the market demand returns. >>

I agree with this. I would add,

I see in a lot of dealers locked in fear of selling a coin too low. The thought of getting picked, missing an upgrade, or hearing about how they sold a coin and it sold again for X amount locks them petrified inaction. Especially when it happens now and then and they feel like a boob or soft target. The result seems to be walling up with high prices and camping out for ALL the money. Then again, find me a business where pricing isn't the hardest part. It seems we are talking about the attitudes with money really.

Most of the trouble I see collectors get into is because they forgo or skip or don't have access to a really good dealer or two. I know the people I work with or recognize good dealers quickly and I understand they need to make a profit, they also understand my position and enjoy leaving a bit of meat on the bone for me too. Resulting in a very gracious and pleasant transaction.

Sonorandesertrat · October 14, 2014 12:13AM

"...Most of the trouble I see collectors get into is because they forgo or skip or don't have access to a really good dealer or two."

I agree, but what novice collectors (and many not-so-novice ones) really need are mentors more generally. I'm not sure that more than 10% of the retail dealers today would qualify IMO as a 'good' dealer. Many cannot grade well (they just push slabs), many don't have much real numismatic knowledge unless they specialize, and many come up short in the people-skills department.

WildIdea · October 14, 2014 12:22AM

<< "...Most of the trouble I see collectors get into is because they forgo or skip or don't have access to a really good dealer or two."

I agree, but what novice collectors (and many not-so-novice ones) really need are mentors more generally. I'm not sure that more than 10% of the retail dealers today would qualify IMO as a 'good' dealer. Many cannot grade well (they just push slabs), many don't have much real numismatic knowledge unless they specialize, and many come up short in the people-skills department. >>

Now that's the word I was looking for! Yeah man Mentor is better.

So that brings up another point. How to land the apprenticeship! Ah is just so easy to skip it and learn things the hard way.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 14, 2014 12:36AM

Stocking stuffers.

Had to go online to order FRESH mint stuff for a customer yesterday even though I had a jar full of buffalo nickels he could have picked from.

mercurydimeguy · October 14, 2014 1:06AM

This thread is interesting as it brings to light the reality of numismatics, and how it differs from other activities.

Some on this message board are speculators, profiteers, and dealers...essentially similar interests, buy low and sell for more than you buy. All good.

Some on this message boards are collectors who buy something for their collection that they can afford. All good.

Dead stock to collectors is dead stock because it is material not interesting to collect (or vast amounts of it allow buyers to be picky)...not because it is priced to high. Dead stock to a profiteer is any material at a price higher than they are able to sell it for. However, profiteers will fall in love with any "dead stock" instantly if the price was lowered because they can flip it to another dealer or investor at a profit.

I was at a coin show and brought a box of extras to sell off (expecting to sell ZERO, but brought it anyway). Most fell in love with high end, CAC material I was selling off as duplicates until I told them price points (probably 10% back of generic material auction prices) and then I got the blah blah blah lesson (after 30+ years I just go tone deaf).

LOL, I just said, forget it...let's not do this, just show me what you have for sale and let's stick to you selling and me buying because I have $$ and you are clearly much better at the selling. One look at their material and I was moving on...I guess I call it, "dead stock"

Somebody said it best before, the widget "'hole filler" days/collectors have long since passed...if you still have a lot of hole filler inventory, dump it and move on. That is dead stock for sure, as I haven't met many hole filler collectors who can spend any more than $1k-$2k per year tops (so you need like 2,000 of them as clients to make any money)...and with vast amounts of widgets on the market, even the hole fillers have become very picky!

BTW...this month I already sold of 4 of my upgrades/dupes at fair prices...thank God I don't fall for the "you have dead inventory, sell it" pressures from profiteers. This is a trick that profiteers use to convince collectors to sell their premium coins at rock bottom/junk price points. Profiteers want PQ CAC material at back of GS prices, so when they want to buy it from you, it's "dead stock." However, when the profiteers go to sell, it's "A RARE OPPORTUNITY TO OWN ONE OF THE FINEST PIECES THAT HAS BEEN LOCKED AWAY IN A COLLECTION FOR MORE THAN A DECADE"

LOL...

... I love this hobby, cough cough, I mean business, cough cough...I don't even know what to call it anymore.

metalmeister · October 14, 2014 2:02AM

All good points here!
Overall the coin market has been in a funk last few years BUT good flashy eye appeal coins will sell at the right price or more.
Pay up for quality and the coins will move and even make money if held for a time.

BillJones · October 14, 2014 2:30AM

When I was a dealer, I found out that ANYTHING will sell if it is priced right. I seldom held anything for than three or four months. Most things were gone within two months.

When I retired I gradually sold off my inventory, most of it for a profit. The main things I got beat up on was a couple of commemorative half dollars. The market was bad then, and it got worse later.

The only coin I kept was an 1878 7 over 8 tail feather Morgan dollar because the I found the offer I got from a local dealer ridiculously low. He bought one of the two Morgan dollars I offered him, but I got tired of line, "This over graded" on a couple solid MS-63 slabbed coins. He knew me well enough to know better, but he still couldn't resist using the usual line he drops on collectors to get them to sell cheep. You'd be surprised at how many dealers use that line, and then laugh up their sleeve has the seller is walking out the door.

DeepCoin · October 14, 2014 2:36AM

Bill Jones nailed it. If you have a business the lifeblood is inventory turns. It does not matter if you are selling coins or yarn (a friend owned a yarn store). If you have a coin that does not sell and you insist on hanging onto it, you lose the opportunity cost of the money tied up in it. That money, even if less than you paid for the coin, could be productive and buy coins to sell that make money. Even if you are buried, if you take market value for your segment and then turn it 3 or 4 times over the next year, with any reasonable margin you will get your money back and now be cooking again!

Being buried in a big coin just means you need to let it go sooner as no one will overpay for an expensive coin. Holding on and hoping for someone to pay way over market is a fools errand and sure to make you poorer in the long run.

Coins are like any other business, except for some of the dealers who need to understand Business 101 and cash flow.

metalmeister · October 14, 2014 2:39AM

btw when I said market in a funk..
Ex. 1953 25c MS67

2013 pcgs price guide = $1650

2014 = $650

Will it and many more coins go back to there old highs?
Time will tell..

MGLICKER · October 14, 2014 2:43AM

<< If you have a coin that does not sell and you insist on hanging onto it, you lose the opportunity cost of the money tied up in it. >>

Assuming of course that the money from the coin is needed to buy fresh inventory. If it is not needed, one may be better off holding the coin hoping that appreciates in value.

mercurydimeguy · October 14, 2014 2:46AM

<< Coins are like any other business... >>

Actually, this statement is not true. Coins are not like any other business. I run a software company and coins are nothing like that. Also coins are nothing like Ice Cream nor Oil & Gas nor Travel nor Restaurant, nor anything else for that matter other than possibly other collectibles.

Your assumption is that every coin is identical (like pints of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia), but every coin is not identical. If that were the case -- take MS70 Gold Kennedy coins -- then your assumption could be more appropriate. They are all perfect, they are all the same, except for the ones that are not

What makes the coin market different is that each coin has unique attributes, and each attribute is subjectively quantified, and that subjective quantification is then market priced. Ultra widgets are more like normal businesses but still not the same, once you move away from ultra widgets the coin business becomes very different.

BillJones · October 14, 2014 3:08AM

<< btw when I said market in a funk..
Ex. 1953 25c MS67

2013 pcgs price guide = $1650

2014 = $650

Will it and many more coins go back to there old highs?
Time will tell.. >>

I think what you see with that example was a registry driven phenomenon. I don't think that you are going to see those high prices again anytime soon. I'm not a modern coin expert, but if a collector can buy an MS-66 or quite a bit less than the MS-67, I'd say that the MS-67 might not be a great buy at a huge premium.

bolivarshagnasty · October 14, 2014 4:05AM

For the last ten years or so, I have found that in ADDITION to pricing not appropriate for the quality, the dreck that remains are mistakes by the Dealer. An unseen staple scratch, rim ding, overgrade are all
examples of coins showing up in the same cases show after show. The Dealers have a hard time digesting their mistake, and are hoping for a newbie to come by and save their rear. So the equation goes
something like this...... case full of problem coins= poor decisions by the Dealer....... case full of revolving inventory=informed Dealer with good business model. JMHO

AngryTurtle · October 14, 2014 4:24AM

<< 

<< Coins are like any other business... >>

Actually, this statement is not true. Coins are not like any other business. I run a software company and coins are nothing like that. Also coins are nothing like Ice Cream nor Oil & Gas nor Travel nor Restaurant, nor anything else for that matter other than possibly other collectibles.

Your assumption is that every coin is identical (like pints of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia), but every coin is not identical. If that were the case -- take MS70 Gold Kennedy coins -- then your assumption could be more appropriate. They are all perfect, they are all the same, except for the ones that are not

What makes the coin market different is that each coin has unique attributes, and each attribute is subjectively quantified, and that subjective quantification is then market priced. Ultra widgets are more like normal businesses but still not the same, once you move away from ultra widgets the coin business becomes very different. >>

I have thought about this question a bit and I think COin Collecting is quite similar to Real Estate. Every item for sale is unique, and there is a relatively high transaction cost.

DeepCoin · October 14, 2014 4:54AM

I am NOT saying every coin is identical. What I am saying it that you have money tied up in all the coins, no matter the grade, nor the type, i.e. modern, classic. A dealer needs to turn his inventory to make money. Holding onto a loss just ties up capital. It does not matter if it is in a modern gold coin or a classic bust half. What you own has a market value today, and if that is different from what it was last year, you cannot change the market.

Holding on, hoping the market will change is not the way to run a good business. There is a time cost to money, that is what gets lost in the discussion. If you were heavy into classic commemoratives when the bottom fell out and are still holding them, you have wasted the entrepreneurial opportunity of the money tied up for all those years. Once you decide you cannot or do not have to make money or break even on every coin, it allows you to get rid of dogs and losers and buy more salable inventory.

MGLICKER · October 14, 2014 5:02AM

<< I am NOT saying every coin is identical. What I am saying it that you have money tied up in all the coins, no matter the grade, nor the type, i.e. modern, classic. A dealer needs to turn his inventory to make money. Holding onto a loss just ties up capital. It does not matter if it is in a modern gold coin or a classic bust half. What you own has a market value today, and if that is different from what it was last year, you cannot change the market.

Holding on, hoping the market will change is not the way to run a good business. There is a time cost to money, that is what gets lost in the discussion. If you were heavy into classic commemoratives when the bottom fell out and are still holding them, you have wasted the entrepreneurial opportunity of the money tied up for all those years. Once you decide you cannot or do not have to make money or break even on every coin, it allows you to get rid of dogs and losers and buy more salable inventory. >>

You are making many assumptions. Coins are not perishable as a birthday cake is or in a sense, last years designer dress.

On the same note, one cannot merely place an order for 100 new classic coins as Wal-Mart can order a container load of sneakers to replenish inventory. Inventory has to be acquired, often at substantial transaction cost.

Why not then hold onto some of the dogs? I wouldn't pay 10% interest to hold mine, but when the option is zero return back from the bank, I would rather hold the silver and gold.

keets · October 14, 2014 5:25AM

I am curious about the perspective of the replies --- are they as a fulltime dealer or a weekend dealer, do you have a storefront that is open(how many days per week) or do you only travel to shows and if so how often?? I think that perspective affect the overall impression.

SullivanNumismatics · October 14, 2014 6:09AM

<< Hmmm...I thought I posted already in my sleep, but SullivanNumismatics is just using my avatar...

BUT, to answer your question, yes, I have experienced the same thing. And, I don't think it's limited to small regional shows. It's also prevalent in very large dealer inventories and to some extent you could even say it's seen on Heritage. I can't tell you how many of the exact same item I see back up for auction within 1 year of original purchase on Heritage. >>

Sorry about that, I'll switch. It'd be easier if there was a way to upload my own image, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do that.

BillJones · October 14, 2014 6:18AM

<< I am curious about the perspective of the replies --- are they as a fulltime dealer or a weekend dealer, do you have a storefront that is open(how many days per week) or do you only travel to shows and if so how often?? I think that perspective affect the overall impression. >>

I used to do shows and want lists. I don't see how a storefront operation with nothing but coins and supplies can survive today. The overhead and the security problems are just too great. JJ Teapary in Boston was on of the last, and they are great at both shows and the storefront, but even they threw in the towel on their street level store.

keets · October 14, 2014 6:40AM

Bill, that's why I asked. it is easy to roll over an inventory when you do 30-40 shows a year and that is the primary source of your stock, buying mainly from other dealers with a small percentage coming from the public. with a B&M it is different.

SullivanNumismatics · October 14, 2014 7:29AM

<< Bill, that's why I asked. it is easy to roll over an inventory when you do 30-40 shows a year and that is the primary source of your stock, buying mainly from other dealers with a small percentage coming from the public. with a B&M it is different. >>

They can go online though and get rid of excess inventory on eBay or a website, auction, etc, and also to buy.

roadrunner · October 14, 2014 8:00AM

<< btw when I said market in a funk..
Ex. 1953 25c MS67

2013 pcgs price guide = $1650

2014 = $650

Will it and many more coins go back to there old highs?
Time will tell.. >>

This doesn't take into account grading standards changing, addition of + grades, increased supplies, etc. It's only logical to assume that the pops of MS67 1953 quarters will continue to increase. The 66+ coins are now putting pressure on the lower end 67's as the pq coins get pushed up by a +....ditto for stickered pieces. More 67+ coins will get made. Pops continuing to increase is always a concern. And by itself this doesn't mean the market is in a funk. There are probably just too many MS67's for the number of date set collectors. It's hard for most coins to return to their old highs when their pops keep growing....and the number of collectors/investors isn't keeping pace. If you look back to 1990 as to what coins had low pops are were considered "worthy" and "hard to find," >90% of them don't even make the list today because of exploding pops.

In 1989 I remember owning the very first 1934 quarter in MS67 (there were 18 MS66's). It was a monster toner to boot. I paid $1,000 for it (maybe that's the lone MS68 today???). Even a MS66 1934 25c was a very worthy coin back then. Today, the pops of the MS66 are >450 and the MS67 is at 86. It's to the point where there are probably more than enough MS67's to go around. The MS66 is essentially common.

hchcoin · October 14, 2014 8:03AM

<< 

<< Dead stock coins are generally over priced which results in them being dead stock. Virtually every coin can be sold if the price is right. >>

This.

I just dumped a few of my antique mall leftovers (flea markety junk, for the most part) onto eBay in small lots.

99¢ true auctions, let 'em rip and let the chips fall where they may. Better to get something off of it than have it clutter up a drawer for another couple of years.

That's the beauty of a true auction. Stuff can't go unsold if the starting bid is low enough. It will find its real value. Plus, that draws in more bidders and occasionally the stuff does better than expected. (But if you lose a bit on your lower-end dreck, so be it. At least you moved it.) >>

I agree with you

BaronVonBaugh · October 14, 2014 8:19AM

I see coins on ebay & GC that keep cycling through due to the price being set too high.
Many items are priced to bury the buyer.

BlindedByEgo · October 14, 2014 8:27AM

<< I guess some of them think they are operating a museum.

>>

ambro51 · October 14, 2014 8:27AM

Proof sets. Mint sets. Dead.

DollarAfterDollar · October 14, 2014 8:28AM

When I go to local shows what I see is case after case of unattractive and often cleaned/dipped inventory. The few coins that have some life left are either in plastic already or are significantly over-priced because they have some "pop". I agree that Dealers who aren't realistic in their pricing are asking for a miracle to sell this kind of inventory. I understand that they may need a higher price because they need to turn a profit to survive but at times they hurt their own cause.

Sometimes it's nice to just get things out of your sight and regroup.

panther · October 14, 2014 9:35AM

<< btw when I said market in a funk..
Ex. 1953 25c MS67

2013 pcgs price guide = $1650

2014 = $650

Will it and many more coins go back to there old highs?
Time will tell.. >>

The Pop reports on these are way off now that it is OK to crack out MS-67 Quarters to try and get a 67+ and Quadruple your money. I know of several MS-67 quarters that have been cracked out. I am sure that there are many more.
I am also sure that many MS-66 quarters that have also been cracked trying to make MS-67.
So when a 1949 in 67 shows a Population of 58, how many time was this and other quarters been cracked and retried?
There is just too much of this going on, and not just with Washington's.

1949 when it was MS-67

keets · October 14, 2014 11:06AM

I don't think that's the same coin.

panther · October 14, 2014 11:17AM

<< I don't think that's the same coin. >>

Same coin, Bigger pictures

Note the new edge view holder

roadrunner · October 14, 2014 12:06PM

<< ....The Pop reports on these are way off now that it is OK to crack out MS-67 Quarters to try and get a 67+ and Quadruple your money. I know of several MS-67 quarters that have been cracked out. I am sure that there are many more. I am also sure that many MS-66 quarters that have also been cracked trying to make MS-67. So when a 1949 in 67 shows a Population of 58, how many time was this and other quarters been cracked and retried?
There is just too much of this going on, and not just with Washington's..... >>

I wouldn't think anyone with an MS67 1953 25c would be cracking it out to submit raw when the price differential between 66 and 67 is about 10X. Why would you risk that? It could just as easily come back a MS66. Why not just submit for a regrade with a group of other solid gem Wash. 25c's? And in that case, the pops get adjusted. I don't doubt that many 66's have been cracked out looking for a 67 grade. There's not a lot of downside there.

BLUEJAYWAY · October 14, 2014 12:26PM

<< For the last ten years or so, I have found that in ADDITION to pricing not appropriate for the quality, the dreck that remains are mistakes by the Dealer. An unseen staple scratch, rim ding, overgrade are all
examples of coins showing up in the same cases show after show. The Dealers have a hard time digesting their mistake, and are hoping for a newbie to come by and save their rear. So the equation goes
something like this...... case full of problem coins= poor decisions by the Dealer....... case full of revolving inventory=informed Dealer with good business model. JMHO >>

It's unfortunate if some dealers are hoping for "noobies" to come by and purchase/bail out their "mistakes" if those mistakes aren't so noted. That is not a way to cultivate a new collector/buying base. Once a potential collector is "burned" in such a way,you may never see them again.

ARCO · October 14, 2014 1:08PM

I am not as experienced at attending shows, but the local show I have attended for twelve years is almost always the same: there are 40-50 tables, 4-5 with some fairly good quality coins, but the majority with really awful, ugly and high priced coins. It is really depressing to me. It is proof positive that I would not be a collector without the internet and the ability to connect to dealers, sellers and other collectors around the country.

God bless the internet.

Tyler

panther · October 14, 2014 1:52PM

Here is a coin that was sold in August 2014 for $9400.00. Was is cracked out? Why are both cert# still good?

1952-S MS-66+ FBL

Now MS-67 2 months later price guide $17,000.00

TwoSides2aCoin · October 14, 2014 6:03PM

"Dead stock" is a term for : "I priced my _____ too high "
… or

"I paid too much and refuse to sell it at a loss." That's "dead stock".

Advise: Selling it at a loss, so it will come to life. And the world will proclaim that the "YOU SUCK" award is officially back.

Dead stock.

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