That's what I was thinking. I guess 8 Batting Titles doesn't get you into the top ten. Sheeesh!!! Yes, I typed it, Sheeesh! It's a shame that Tony never really got the respect he was due. I guess that's what happens when you play the game in a city you love, don't hype yourself, and play for the game, not the fame.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sorry, but to be top 5 all-time, you gotta hit for average AND power. Ruth did it. Williams did it. Bonds did it. Hornsby did it. Gehrig did it. Cobb did it. Gwynn... didn't.
Sorry, but to be top 5 all-time, you gotta hit for average AND power. Ruth did it. Williams did it. Bonds did it. Hornsby did it. Gehrig did it. Cobb did it. Gwynn... didn't. >>
+1
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The correct answer isn't even a choice! It's YAZ!!
Yes, I'm kidding. >>
Who's Yaz??
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. Had Williams been juiced his numbers would have been off the chart.
A "clean" hitting Frank Robinson hit 49 hrs in '66 and batted .342 in '63. Bonds didn't reach such lofty numbers until (after) he began juicing. I would place Robinson on that list before I would degrade it with the likes of Bonds.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. Had Williams been juiced his numbers would have been off the chart.
A "clean" hitting Frank Robinson hit 49 hrs in '66 and batted .342 in '63. Bonds didn't reach such lofty numbers until (after) he began juicing. I would place Robinson on that list before I would degrade it with the likes of Bonds. >>
You can't only give Williams roids. He needs to face a fully integrated league with international talent. Then the pitchers also use PEDs. I'm not saying Williams wouldn't improve, but you have to include the whole league.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
<< <i> You can't only give Williams roids. He needs to face a fully integrated league with international talent. Then the pitchers also use PEDs. I'm not saying Williams wouldn't improve, but you have to include the whole league. >>
Williams hit .388 11 years after integration. Something tells me he'd be just as good in any year.
Keep in mind that there were many fewer teams back in the day. Almost half of all current MLB players would not have had jobs back in the '40's. I know for sure the Twins would love to throw away at least half of their current roster.
Barry Bonds hands down, don't care what people say about the ped situation, its still hard to hit a home run and last time I checked Barry Bonds is still number one! He belongs in the hall of fame just as much as Pete Rose does!
<< <i>Keep in mind that there were many fewer teams back in the day. Almost half of all current MLB players would not have had jobs back in the '40's. I know for sure the Twins would love to throw away at least half of their current roster. >>
Do you think Williams faced tougher pitching than Bonds?
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
<< <i>Keep in mind that there were many fewer teams back in the day. Almost half of all current MLB players would not have had jobs back in the '40's. I know for sure the Twins would love to throw away at least half of their current roster. >>
Do you think Williams faced tougher pitching than Bonds? >>
Nothing against Williams but Bonds faced guys throwing 98 in the 7th. Was there a pitcher that threw that in the 40's or 50's? No! I know that nobody wants to give Bonds his due but if it was that easy to take a magic potion then 75% of hitters would be in the 300's all the time.. I get it he was a jerk and took PEDs but Ty Cobb was one too...
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. >>
This is not factual. Please show me evidence of anabolic steroids improving vision. >>
At that famous televised congressional hearing where Canseco ratted out Sosa, McGwire & Palmeiro one of the nation's top PED experts testified that (**steroids or HGH?) significantly improves a hitter's eyesight. **Note--off the top of my head I can't specifically recall whether he testified it was steroids or HGH that enhanced a players sight--but it was one of the two. Having thought about it more he probably said it was HGH (human growth hormones) since Sosa, McGwire & Palmeiro were all three accused of using such.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
<< <i>Williams is the best pure hitter that was out there. Mays and Cobb are up at the top as well. >>
On top of that, Ted Williams did not play at the age of 24,25,26.
To put that in perspective, Ty Cobb hit .420, .406, and .390 between the ages of 24-26.
Babe Ruth's highest OPS season was at the age of 25.
At the age of 25 Babe Ruth hit 54 home runs. At the age of 26 Babe Ruth hit 59 home runs.
I think we can assume that we never saw Ted Williams greatest baseball seasons ever because of his service to his country. >>
+1
I collect Seattle Pilots autographs, 1969 Topps autographs, Signed Mickey Mantle Home Run History cards and have a JC Martin collection (he was my college Baseball coach) Doug
That's what I was thinking. I guess 8 Batting Titles doesn't get you into the top ten. Sheeesh!!! Yes, I typed it, Sheeesh! It's a shame that Tony never really got the respect he was due. I guess that's what happens when you play the game in a city you love, don't hype yourself, and play for the game, not the fame.
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Gwynn was also the only one close to 400 in the modern era.
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always difficult to assess players one has never seen play.....but I will anyway. if I managed a team I would always want somebody who had the ability to go deep. punch and judy hitters are fine but at crunch time I want somebody who can hit it out of the park. if the guy can hit for average as well as power then that makes him a special hitter.
that said: ted Williams, the babe and lou Gehrig. in that order.
eyebone
"I'm not saying I'm the best manager in the world, but I'm in the top one." Brian Clough
Comments
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
"Barry Bonds but not Tony Gwynn?"
That's what I was thinking. I guess 8 Batting Titles doesn't get you into the top ten. Sheeesh!!! Yes, I typed it, Sheeesh! It's a shame that Tony never really got the respect he was due. I guess that's what happens when you play the game in a city you love, don't hype yourself, and play for the game, not the fame.
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time.
Better, even, than Barry Sanders.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Are you serious? He is tied for 139th in all time OPS+.
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<< <i>I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Are you serious? He is tied for 139th in all time OPS+. >>
Only four modern players are in the top twenty, only one active (Pujols). The others are Bonds, McGwire, and Thomas.
<< <i>I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Are you serious? He is tied for 139th in all time OPS+. >>
OPS is a biased stat for power hitters; it's only one part of a much larger story
And I don't think there's really much of a debate here, and the stats are proving it out so far
Ted Williams was unbelievable, and as pointed out he may have missed his best years of production
<< <i>
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Sorry, but to be top 5 all-time, you gotta hit for average AND power. Ruth did it. Williams did it. Bonds did it. Hornsby did it. Gehrig did it. Cobb did it. Gwynn... didn't.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>
<< <i>
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Sorry, but to be top 5 all-time, you gotta hit for average AND power. Ruth did it. Williams did it. Bonds did it. Hornsby did it. Gehrig did it. Cobb did it. Gwynn... didn't. >>
+1
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>Bonds hit everything thrown in his direction... >>
thats why i picked him. He put up huge numbers, and was pitched around most of the time the second half of his career.
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 80.51% Complete)
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Yes, I'm kidding.
<< <i>The correct answer isn't even a choice! It's YAZ!!
Yes, I'm kidding. >>
Who's Yaz??
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>The correct answer isn't even a choice! It's YAZ!!
Yes, I'm kidding. >>
Who's Yaz?? >>
He is the guy in this video in the outfield watching the home run go over his head and also the guy popping up to end the game:
Video
<< <i>Cant decide between Williams and Bonds. >>
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. Had Williams been juiced his numbers would have been off the chart.
A "clean" hitting Frank Robinson hit 49 hrs in '66 and batted .342 in '63. Bonds didn't reach such lofty numbers until (after) he began juicing. I would place Robinson on that list before I would degrade it with the likes of Bonds.
<< <i>
<< <i>Cant decide between Williams and Bonds. >>
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. Had Williams been juiced his numbers would have been off the chart.
A "clean" hitting Frank Robinson hit 49 hrs in '66 and batted .342 in '63. Bonds didn't reach such lofty numbers until (after) he began juicing. I would place Robinson on that list before I would degrade it with the likes of Bonds. >>
You can't only give Williams roids. He needs to face a fully integrated league with international talent. Then the pitchers also use PEDs. I'm not saying Williams wouldn't improve, but you have to include the whole league.
<< <i>
You can't only give Williams roids. He needs to face a fully integrated league with international talent. Then the pitchers also use PEDs. I'm not saying Williams wouldn't improve, but you have to include the whole league. >>
Williams hit .388 11 years after integration. Something tells me he'd be just as good in any year.
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<< <i>Someone already did all the work for us... Baseballs Greatest Hitters of All Time! >>
<< <i>Keep in mind that there were many fewer teams back in the day. Almost half of all current MLB players would not have had jobs back in the '40's. I know for sure the Twins would love to throw away at least half of their current roster. >>
Do you think Williams faced tougher pitching than Bonds?
<< <i>
<< <i>Keep in mind that there were many fewer teams back in the day. Almost half of all current MLB players would not have had jobs back in the '40's. I know for sure the Twins would love to throw away at least half of their current roster. >>
Do you think Williams faced tougher pitching than Bonds? >>
Nothing against Williams but Bonds faced guys throwing 98 in the 7th. Was there a pitcher that threw that in the 40's or 50's?
No! I know that nobody wants to give Bonds his due but if it was that easy to take a magic potion then 75% of hitters would be
in the 300's all the time.. I get it he was a jerk and took PEDs but Ty Cobb was one too...
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>
<< <i>Cant decide between Williams and Bonds. >>
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. >>
This is not factual. Please show me evidence of anabolic steroids improving vision.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Cant decide between Williams and Bonds. >>
It's a well documented fact that steroids improve eyesight. >>
This is not factual. Please show me evidence of anabolic steroids improving vision. >>
At that famous televised congressional hearing where Canseco ratted out Sosa, McGwire & Palmeiro one of the nation's top PED experts testified that (**steroids or HGH?) significantly improves a hitter's eyesight. **Note--off the top of my head I can't specifically recall whether he testified it was steroids or HGH that enhanced a players sight--but it was one of the two. Having thought about it more he probably said it was HGH (human growth hormones) since Sosa, McGwire & Palmeiro were all three accused of using such.
link
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>
<< <i>Williams is the best pure hitter that was out there. Mays and Cobb are up at the top as well. >>
On top of that, Ted Williams did not play at the age of 24,25,26.
To put that in perspective, Ty Cobb hit .420, .406, and .390 between the ages of 24-26.
Babe Ruth's highest OPS season was at the age of 25.
At the age of 25 Babe Ruth hit 54 home runs.
At the age of 26 Babe Ruth hit 59 home runs.
I think we can assume that we never saw Ted Williams greatest baseball seasons ever because of his service to his country. >>
+1
Doug
<< <i>When I saw the title of this thread, one name came to mind: Ted Williams. >>
+1 Me too.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>"Barry Bonds but not Tony Gwynn?"
That's what I was thinking. I guess 8 Batting Titles doesn't get you into the top ten. Sheeesh!!! Yes, I typed it, Sheeesh! It's a shame that Tony never really got the respect he was due. I guess that's what happens when you play the game in a city you love, don't hype yourself, and play for the game, not the fame.
I say Gwynn is in the top 5 all time. >>
Gwynn was also the only one close to 400 in the modern era.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
that said: ted Williams, the babe and lou Gehrig. in that order.
eyebone
<< <i>I would say overall it is Ted Williams, but I grew up watching Rod Carew and he could place that ball anywhere. >>
+1
To be honest, no direction, but...
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