Joe's Theory on the Doily Holder.

JoeDoily · July 8, 2014 8:32AM

I was thinking a lot about this thing lately and you know, I have been a big doily collector for over 15 years before it was even cool to shout doily from the mouth. But lately, I am finding myself with what I call, "doily's remorse". Which means, I have enough of them to pile a library full. Leads me to ask, will they ever be worth anything in the future say 50 - 100 years from now or will they be discarded as just a cheap piece of plastic? Remember, what plastic do you know gains value in a 50 year span. I know gold does, I know silver does, but plastic??

Your thoughts please.

LeeBone · July 8, 2014 8:36AM

Sounds like you`re investing your money in plastic, not even collecting the coin itself.

JoeDoily · July 8, 2014 8:47AM

Me?

I am not investing in them. I am just asking a question. I bought the coins because I love the collectibility of these holders and have loved their scarcity on the market the moment I found my first doily in the type of a 1909 VDB MS64BN back in 1998.
The focus here is on how we will view these slabs in 50 years at the very least.. Will the market care about them any more?

pennyannie · July 8, 2014 8:52AM

Yes and No. I know quite a few B&M dealers that have no idea that doily holders are and do not charge more for them. Some will pay more and as long as those guys are around they will pay strong for them.

LanceNewmanOCC · July 8, 2014 9:00AM

<< I know gold does, I know silver does, but plastic??
Your thoughts please. >>

for a fact, many holders will go up in "value." all things being somewhat equal of course. we don't enter an official world war III, america doesn't collapse, aliens don't kill us for our resources, counterfeits don't ruin the majority of collectors/dealers, etc.

think about the top 5 types (est. scarcity), doily probably included and try to picture that numismatics doesn't collapse, the holders from the early days of the TPGs will of course simply be another microcosm for people to focus in on. it is NOT all about the plastic. it is partly the history, scarcity etc. the doily holder looks pretty cool too. imo.

with doilies being near the bottom of the premium holder list, once more information circulates about certain types, small variations, those will become more the focus. it is happening now and there have been threads about it.
.

291fifth · July 8, 2014 9:03AM

To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily".

braddick · July 8, 2014 9:09AM

Sell the cheap widget ones (Morgans and Walkers) and keep the rare and exotic ones.

JoeDoily · July 8, 2014 9:17AM

Begs to ask another question on top of this one which is somewhat relevant. Will the grading companies like PCGS and NGC be around in 50-100 years and will we still care about their opinion as much as we do today?

Just some fun future speculation here. No answer is the right one until the time actually happens.

Cameonut · July 8, 2014 9:19AM

Interesting thread.

I ownthe least valuable doily slab yet identified - a 1960 PR64 Jefferson - worth exactly $8 in the PCGS price guide. Who knows why someone wanted this in a slab....

Will it be worth more in the future? Heck, I don't know. But I am not worried with only an $8 downside.....

JoeDoily · July 8, 2014 9:23AM

I'd take that 1960 Jefferson off your hands any time you're tired of it

I love collecting them and don't care one bit if there will be a market for it one day or not, but it is fun to think about and imagine where these holders will be value wise in all those years... JD

Cameonut · July 8, 2014 9:24AM

<< To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily". >>

So, would you purchase my doily 1960 in PR64 for $10 if offered?

I actually agree with your statement, it is all about the coin. But there are people that collect samples, slab varieties, different TPG's holders, slab generations etc. Whatever floats their boat.

JoeDoily · July 8, 2014 9:25AM

<< 

<< To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily". >>

So, would you purchase my doily 1960 in PR64 for $10 if offered?

I actually agree with your statement, it is all about the coin. But there are people that collect samples, slab varieties, different TPG's holders, slab generations etc. Whatever floats their boat. >>

As long as there's a market for it now or in 50 years, the price will be where its at. I know a lot of doily collectors gather on these forums so we are pretty much most of the market and what we think our interests will become in 50 years more interests me.

FullStrike · July 8, 2014 9:32AM

I don't personally see any extra value in Doily Holders - but of course that's MHO only.

I recently decided maybe I'd be buying some Old Rattler holdered Coins. It seems that most of those on ebay are MS64
and lower grades - not my usual area. If a Dealer has an MS65 or higher, especially with Bean, the price asked is totally nuts.
Enough to drive me out of the market. Lately I've taken to dreaming of taking one European vacation a year, and buying a few
really old Coins of that country I happen to be in.

First up Ireland, and maybe also Scotland and England. Hopefully by next year.

Guess I better get that Passport soon.

Catbert · July 8, 2014 9:38AM

Ah, December of 1989.........

I'm thinking that nice unmolested early copper in doily holders might be reassuring to a buyer and worth a premium. Got any pics to share of yours?

leothelyon · July 8, 2014 9:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily". >>

So, would you purchase my doily 1960 in PR64 for $10 if offered?

I actually agree with your statement, it is all about the coin. But there are people that collect samples, slab varieties, different TPG's holders, slab generations etc. Whatever floats their boat. >>

As long as there's a market for it now or in 50 years, the price will be where its at. I know a lot of doily collectors gather on these forums so we are pretty much most of the market and what we think our interests will become in 50 years more interests me. >>

In 50 years I'll be 106, out of or in the ground. What will my interest be at that time? If I'm not soiling my drawers on a daily basis.........I let you know...,,that is, if you're around.

Leo

291fifth · July 8, 2014 9:55AM

<< 

<< To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily". >>

So, would you purchase my doily 1960 in PR64 for $10 if offered?

I actually agree with your statement, it is all about the coin. But there are people that collect samples, slab varieties, different TPG's holders, slab generations etc. Whatever floats their boat. >>

The answer is, no, I would not purchase it. I view that coin as being a "service charge" value piece regardless of the holder it is in. There are many popular collecting trends I have little use for, some involving rather expensive items. Take, for example, rare die marriages of capped bust coins or Newcomb varieties of large cents. Most of those put me to sleep. Someone could talk to me about the rarity of their common date Capped Bust Half die marriage until they were blue in the face and I would pay no premium for it. I know this is shocking to some of the specialists but that is the way it is. I make my own decisions about what is or is not worthwhile.

CoinRaritiesOnline · July 8, 2014 10:12AM

<< I make my own decisions about what is or is not worthwhile. >>

I think we all do that, don't we?

DCW · July 8, 2014 10:13AM

I think the premium (at least for copper lovers) is attached to the premise that the copper color is stable over the period of encapsulation. In other words, the older the holder, the safer the bet that your 1909-svdb would turn from red to red-brown.
Outside of that, I couldn't care less about the label style. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone cared at all about TPG's in fifty years.

Lakesammman · July 8, 2014 10:16AM

To each their own - I still like them.

ms70 · July 8, 2014 10:41AM

I think they will only be worth more than the coin to other doily collectors which I'm sure there will always be. Some will drop out, some new ones will arrive with an interest
in collecting numismatic paraphernalia that is related to coins.

BryceM · July 8, 2014 10:41AM

I find it difficult to predict what will happen tomorrow or next week. 50 years is pretty extreme, but I could see older holders adding value for red copper & original-looking coins. I doubt doilies will be valuable by themselves. The market for them could get thin real easily.

..... course, I could be completely wrong.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 8, 2014 10:44AM

I'll stick with my mantra: "show me the coin". On the other hand, I have kinfolk who are Doyles.

MrEureka · July 8, 2014 11:45AM

On the one hand, the market for doilies will probably hold up nicely as long as PCGS is a dominant force in the rare coin market. On the other hand, 50 years is a long time.

oreville · July 8, 2014 12:14PM

Bakelite is an early form of plastic and is hugely popular and today is getting more and more expensive. So, yes plastic can get quite popular and expensive.

Look at the black NGC slab. now THAT is a very expensive piece of plastic. In fact, it is preferable to have a very INEXPENSIVE coin INSIDE the slab so that you are buying ONLY the slab and NOT the coin. It keeps your cost down.

But what we have here is not a discussion about plastic but a piece of paper known as a tag/label inside a fairly common piece of plastic.

It was once known as a confetti label now known as a doily label.

it is the piece of paper that is actually a period piece. It was made at a certain point in time and even has been imitated as a retro piece.

Probably 1000 or so of these slabs exists and will gradually increase in value over time but being that they are not ultra scarce, the increase in value will not be huge. However, they are very popular and very visibly attractive and as a period piece, will help to sustain reasonable growth in value in years to come.

SeattleSlammer · July 8, 2014 12:14PM

The older slabs (doily, ogh) in my mind always add value when they contain original and eye appealing coins.

mustangmanbob · July 8, 2014 12:37PM

As far as PCGS NGC and survivability: I draw a parallel to cars, should either of those slide under the waves. I do not know how NGC and PCGS is capitalized, but if there was a MAJOR forced buy back event, running into the 9 digits, could they survive?

I collect old Mustangs, and I have a 1930 Model A Ford (bought it in 1969 and still have it).

There are a LOT of what are called "orphan" car marquees out there, companies that no longer exist. Even Oldsmobile at over 100 years old, bit the dust.

Here is a partial list. When they go, the interest in MOST of them wanes quickly, so only the diehards remain. Even my Model A is slowly losing value, as I am considered one of the YOUNG ONES who own one, as most Model A owners are over 70, and the cars are going up for sale in estate after estate.

American Motors (AMC) (1966–1987)
Apollo (1962–1964)
Aptera Motors (2005-2011)
Autoette (1948–1970)
Bricklin (1974–1976)
Checker (1922–1982)
Citicar (1974–1976)
Corbin (1999–2003)
Dale (1974)
DeLorean (1981–1982)
DeSoto (1928–1961)
Dovell (circa 1980s)
Eagle (1988–1998)
Edsel (1958–1960)
Electricar (1950–1966)
Eshelman (1953–1961)
Fiberfab (circa 1960s)
Fisker (2007-2013)
Frazen (1951–1962)
Gaslight (1960-circa 1961)
Geo (1989–1997)
Henney (1960–1964)
Hummer (1992–2010)
Imperial (1955–1975, 1981–1983)
International Harvester (1907–1975)
King Midget (1947–1970)
Mercury (1939–2010)
Nu-Klea (1959–1960)
Oldsmobile (1897–2004)
Plymouth (1928–2001)
Pontiac (1926–2010)
Powell (1930s-1960s)
Rambler (1958–1969)
REO (or Reo) (1905–1975)
Saab (1937–2012)
Saturn (1985–2010)
Studebaker (1902–1967)
Stutz (1968–1987)
Vector (1971–1999, 2006-2010)
White (1902–1981)
Willys (1916–1918, 1930–1942, 1953–1963)

keets · July 8, 2014 12:41PM

But what we have here is not a discussion about plastic but a piece of paper known as a tag/label inside a fairly common piece of plastic.
It was once known as a confetti label now known as a doily label.
it is the piece of paper that is actually a period piece. It was made at a certain point in time and even has been imitated as a retro piece.

this is a line of thinking I have had in the past. there are a few insert varieties and a few shell varieties that together in different combinations give us the "Generations" that conder101 documented. to carry the thinking forward I would ask the logical question --- is the insert only collectible/valuable when if it is inside of the shell??

Lakesammman · July 8, 2014 12:51PM

is the insert only collectible/valuable when if it is inside of the shell??

Yep - and the shell needs to be nice too.

Shamika · July 8, 2014 12:55PM

<< The older slabs (doily, ogh) in my mind always add value when they contain original and eye appealing coins. >>

I agree with SeattleSlammer. The older slabs always appeal to me.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · July 8, 2014 1:37PM

<< As far as PCGS NGC and survivability: I draw a parallel to cars, should either of those slide under the waves. I do not know how NGC and PCGS is capitalized, but if there was a MAJOR forced buy back event, running into the 9 digits, could they survive?

I collect old Mustangs, and I have a 1930 Model A Ford (bought it in 1969 and still have it).

There are a LOT of what are called "orphan" car marquees out there, companies that no longer exist. Even Oldsmobile at over 100 years old, bit the dust.

Here is a partial list. When they go, the interest in MOST of them wanes quickly, so only the diehards remain. Even my Model A is slowly losing value, as I am considered one of the YOUNG ONES who own one, as most Model A owners are over 70, and the cars are going up for sale in estate after estate.

American Motors (AMC) (1966–1987)
Apollo (1962–1964)
Aptera Motors (2005-2011)
Autoette (1948–1970)
Bricklin (1974–1976)
Checker (1922–1982)
Citicar (1974–1976)
Corbin (1999–2003)
Dale (1974)
DeLorean (1981–1982)
DeSoto (1928–1961)
Dovell (circa 1980s)
Eagle (1988–1998)
Edsel (1958–1960)
Electricar (1950–1966)
Eshelman (1953–1961)
Fiberfab (circa 1960s)
Fisker (2007-2013)
Frazen (1951–1962)
Gaslight (1960-circa 1961)
Geo (1989–1997)
Henney (1960–1964)
Hummer (1992–2010)
Imperial (1955–1975, 1981–1983)
International Harvester (1907–1975)
King Midget (1947–1970)
Mercury (1939–2010)
Nu-Klea (1959–1960)
Oldsmobile (1897–2004)
Plymouth (1928–2001)
Pontiac (1926–2010)
Powell (1930s-1960s)
Rambler (1958–1969)
REO (or Reo) (1905–1975)
Saab (1937–2012)
Saturn (1985–2010)
Studebaker (1902–1967)
Stutz (1968–1987)
Vector (1971–1999, 2006-2010)
White (1902–1981)
Willys (1916–1918, 1930–1942, 1953–1963) >>

...OK...all numismatics set aside...this is the guy (mustangmanbob) who I would love to be sitting next to in a bar or a Las Vegas card table! The knowledge gained for the cost of a few (=many to most) drinks or hands lost (=again many to most) would be Well worth my time+money spent just to pick apart his brain!

Oh yeah Doily holders, I own 1 single and it's a Morgan widget with a CAC sticker and it ain't going nowhere anytime soon

Erik

okracer · July 8, 2014 1:58PM

<< But lately, I am finding myself with what I call, "doily's remorse". Which means, I have enough of them to pile a library full. Leads me to ask, will they ever be worth anything in the future say 50 - 100 years from now or will they be discarded as just a cheap piece of plastic? Remember, what plastic do you know gains value in a 50 year span. I know gold does, I know silver does, but plastic??

.....I am not investing in them. I am just asking a question. I bought the coins because I love the "collectibility of these holders" and have loved their scarcity on the market....

Your thoughts please. >>

These statements makes it appear that you are collecting the "plastic" (or the paper in the plastic). Why have Doily remorse? Do you like the coins in the slabs? That's what should matter. If you like it because it is in a doily holder, then you seem to be collecting the holder, to a degree.....

Dave99B · July 8, 2014 1:59PM

I absolutely love Half Cents and Large Cent in old PCGS holders, and I'll pay a premium for them!

Dave

SeattleSlammer · July 8, 2014 3:06PM

<< These statements makes it appear that you are collecting the "plastic" (or the paper in the plastic). Why have Doily remorse? Do you like the coins in the slabs? That's what should matter. If you like it because it is in a doily holder, then you seem to be collecting the holder, to a degree..... >>

The OP has been very clear that he's collecting the doily slabs. He's asking if they will have value and desirability in the future. I think yes....but as has been mentioned in various replies, nice coins inside sure would help!

Coupdescrounge · July 8, 2014 3:18PM

It'll be worth bumping this thread in 50 years and re-visiting the question.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · July 8, 2014 5:00PM

Also keep in mind that when a whale passes on (God forbid), hopefully these types of collections don't get thrown on the market all in one auction or the price/value will drop out from the bottom. These types of collections should be seldom when on the market to keep prices high...just sayin'

Erik

keets · July 8, 2014 9:45PM

is the insert only collectible/valuable when if it is inside of the shell??
-----Yep - and the shell needs to be nice too.

and I don't understand this if indeed what Oreville says is true and accurate, "it is the piece of paper that is actually a period piece" and the real collectible artifact. combined with your reply that is akin to saying that the Mona Lisa becomes worthless if taken out of the frame. we know this isn't the case.

ricko · July 8, 2014 11:27PM

Much like beanie babies and cabbage patch dolls, the fad will pass and premiums will be lost. (saw an original cabbage patch doll - mint condition - at a yard sale this weekend..$2). Cheers, RickO

Treashunt · July 8, 2014 11:31PM

<< To me, the entire "doily" craze is nonsense. In the future it will be the coin that carries the value, not the piece of plastic.

I would pay no premium for a "doily". >>

agreed, except for a sample doily

TwoSides2aCoin · July 8, 2014 11:32PM

<< is the insert only collectible/valuable when if it is inside of the shell??

Yep - and the shell needs to be nice too.

>>

This is the sense of humor that made me stay here.

oreville · July 8, 2014 11:38PM

<< Text Wednesday July 09, 2014 9:27 AM (NEW!) Much like beanie babies and cabbage patch dolls, the fad will pass and premiums will be lost. (saw an original cabbage patch doll - mint condition - at a yard sale this weekend..$2). Cheers, RickO >>

There are over 50,000 of those dolls remaining in pristine condition which is why the premiums were lost. similar to some of our modern coins that loses their premium over bullion.

By the way, not all collectors require a perfect slab but at least a good condition one.

Also, taking the doily label out of the holder does damage it as a period piece because the "package" is now incomplete. It does need to be complete. It can be slightly damaged but it needs to be complete.

oreville · July 8, 2014 11:40PM

interesting,

the sample doily label WITHOUT the plastic shell might still have considerable value by itself!

TJM965 · July 8, 2014 11:51PM

<< Much like beanie babies and cabbage patch dolls, the fad will pass and premiums will be lost. (saw an original cabbage patch doll - mint condition - at a yard sale this weekend..$2). Cheers, RickO >>

Did you buy it? I think you could have doubled your money.

dbcoin · July 9, 2014 12:21AM

As far as PCGS NGC and survivability: I draw a parallel to cars, should either of those slide under the waves. I do not know how NGC and PCGS is capitalized, but if there was a MAJOR forced buy back event, running into the 9 digits, could they survive?

never mind, my math stinks

steveben · July 9, 2014 1:00AM

older slabs, doilies included, are great. but, i think they only add value when the coin inside is nice.

Joe's Theory on the Doily Holder.

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