<< <i>from an investors point of view, CLCT needs to monetize the BST. The BST should be taken down and only paying Collectors Club members or dealers should be allowed to post coins for sale on Collectors Corner. >>
From a non investors view, I agree with you. No such thing as a free lunch, especially when Ebay fees have risen exponentially.
In the meantime, I enjoy and continue to use the free BST service.
The BST is an excellent venue for coins and related material. This forum is for discussion of coins and coin related material. The two sections have their distinct and stated purpose and we should continue to enforce this. Cheers, RickO
Personally, I don't think its ok to share coins on the USCF that are for sale, whether on the BST or else where. I personally don't share upgrades, cool finds or cherry picks that I know I will be selling, no matter how substantial.
<< <i>Personally, I don't think its ok to share coins on the USCF that are for sale, whether on the BST or else where. I personally don't share upgrades, cool finds or cherry picks that I know I will be selling, no matter how substantial. >>
SPAM, IMO, is unwanted and unwarranted solicitation. It can be casual or along the lines of Hurricane Sandy, with the point being, it is totally out of the blue and unexpected about something with which you have no interest in at all. Simple unwanted advertising.
I personally didn't bother to open the "1937-d 3 legger back from anacs" since I have no interest in these over hyped die anomalies. That's the nature of a coin forum. You can look at/respond to whatever you want as you are never forced into opening each and every thread. It's your choice.
As such, if a person comes along crowing about a coin s/he just got back from some grading service that doesn't even belong on the "PCGS" Forums, it is my option on whether or not I even want to bother with the thread. (This time I didn't until this thread popped up)
We can pick and choose. Again, if a casual line is dropped about whether or not the coin being discussed is for sale on the BST, I can pick or choose on whether or not I want to pursue it even further. I mean, it's not like there aren't dealers among us that really want to sell their stuff and what better way to sell it than to let folks start talking about it.
It's not really my position to "enforce" the rules of the forum although I am guilty of doing that exact thing. Posting reminders of forum rules that PCGS has posted which I try to abide by and find it insensitive that others do not.
I belong to the CoinTalk forum which has a similar policy about "selling" items on their US Coins Forum. The primary difference between them and here is that they actually have forum administrators that DO police the forums. They edit posts, issue warnings, delete accounts and perform all the duties one would expect of a Forum Administrator. In cases such as the original thread, a single mention "might" have been allowed. A second mention would have been deleted regardless of how it was mentioned. (BTW, that forum has paid supporters but that is totally optional. What this means is that folks DO want to talk Coins and ARE willing to pay to support such a venue.)
If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
Hiring a person costs money. CLCT makes virtually no money on the forums. All the ad revenue is from the PCGS site (pop reports, price guides, etc). Traffic on the forums is minimal and therefore any ad revenue is minimal. I would guess CLCT breaks even here. Hiring an admin would make this a money losing proposition. Not gonna happen.
Good grief....you actually have to start a separate thread on this Bochiman???? Just for clarification(in case anyone is wondering), he is specifically referring to my "3-legged buffalo" guess the grade thread. I have nothing to hide. I don't sell here very often, but have posted a lot of "please grade" or "guess the grade" threads. I posted ONE coin, that I decided to sell on the BST....and mentioned that in the thread. For the record, I am sorry to all that were offended by my mentioning that. Did Bochiman privately PM me to tell me this was "un-kosher"? Did he politely state on the forum that this is not usually acceptable. No. He went on the forum and essentially called it SPAM with sarcasism stating that maybe everyone will do this....etc. I immediately removed my coin from the BST. A polite "thank you" would have sufficed. I bumped it on the BST, more to let others know that it was removed, while he was implying that I was somehow furthering my spam by "bumping" the thread.....with a whole "well I'd expect that from someone like you" type of attitude, when he doesnt know me. Again, I am truly sorry to everyone who was offended by my incorrect bumping. I removed the other coin for sale. Now there is nothing on the BST for anyone to be offended over. Why are you still whining about this Bochiman...YOU WON! I TOOK IT DOWN! What is funny to me though, is Bochiman hands sarcasm out like candy to get his point across about my SPAMMing.....but when someone sarcastically calls him "Gustapo" or "forum police", he can't take it and has to start a separate thread whining about it. Most folks on the thread realize that I am not a SPAMMER and were defending that. I am sorry that I violated the unpronounced rules....it was a one time occurrence and obviously will not happen again. It honestly was not intended to be SPAM, I like to get opinions on many of my coins to further my knowlege, and this just happened to be one that I decided to sell in multiple venues. There were better ways Bochiman could have handled it.....and I believe that is part of why folks were speaking out.
SPAM, IMO, is unwanted and unwarranted solicitation. It can be casual or along the lines of Hurricane Sandy, with the point being, it is totally out of the blue and unexpected about something with which you have no interest in at all. Simple unwanted advertising.
I personally didn't bother to open the "1937-d 3 legger back from anacs" since I have no interest in these over hyped die anomalies. That's the nature of a coin forum. You can look at/respond to whatever you want as you are never forced into opening each and every thread. It's your choice.
As such, if a person comes along crowing about a coin s/he just got back from some grading service that doesn't even belong on the "PCGS" Forums, it is my option on whether or not I even want to bother with the thread. (This time I didn't until this thread popped up)
We can pick and choose. Again, if a casual line is dropped about whether or not the coin being discussed is for sale on the BST, I can pick or choose on whether or not I want to pursue it even further. I mean, it's not like there aren't dealers among us that really want to sell their stuff and what better way to sell it than to let folks start talking about it.
It's not really my position to "enforce" the rules of the forum although I am guilty of doing that exact thing. Posting reminders of forum rules that PCGS has posted which I try to abide by and find it insensitive that others do not.
I belong to the CoinTalk forum which has a similar policy about "selling" items on their US Coins Forum. The primary difference between them and here is that they actually have forum administrators that DO police the forums. They edit posts, issue warnings, delete accounts and perform all the duties one would expect of a Forum Administrator. In cases such as the original thread, a single mention "might" have been allowed. A second mention would have been deleted regardless of how it was mentioned. (BTW, that forum has paid supporters but that is totally optional. What this means is that folks DO want to talk Coins and ARE willing to pay to support such a venue.)
If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder. >>
<< <i>If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
Hiring a person costs money. CLCT makes virtually no money on the forums. All the ad revenue is from the PCGS site (pop reports, price guides, etc). Traffic on the forums is minimal and therefore any ad revenue is minimal. I would guess CLCT breaks even here. Hiring an admin would make this a money losing proposition. Not gonna happen. >>
Baloney.
PCGS most certainly generates revenue from the Coin Forums but since you're inclined to support a "lack of supervision", CoinTalk has admins and they aren't a business at all. You see, these are "trusted" volunteers that insure that the rules are followed.
There are MANY posters here that fully qualify as admins. AND, BTW, it costs next to nothing to host a forum in the overall scheme of things.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>If it was allowed, I'm afraid the USCF and the BST would become the same forum. It would be one GTG thread after another. >>
To be perfectly honest, I view every GTG thread as a potential sale thread which is why there is a Private Message function which is where ole "wabbits" post should have gone.
But then, it wouldn't stir up as much muck now would it?
"Z-I-n-g"
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>To be perfectly honest, I view every GTG thread as a potential sale thread [...] >>
Then I would say you are a cynic. Every coin posted anywhere is potentially for sale at some price, but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? When somebody does cross the line, a polite reminder of the rules should be the first step. Not everybody is aware of the unwritten etiquette around here, after all.
So I just want to make sure I have this right. The unwritten rule is that you can only post a coin that you will under no circumstances ever sell and will be burred with you when you die, is that right? If that is the case then this forum is going to become very boring as it will have to be believed that every coin purchased might be at some date sold so it can not be posted. This seems to be a bit extreme, at least to me. Did anyone notice at the top of this thread the advertisement for coins for sale?
This is just so crazy over the mention of a coin being for sale. Should all the dealers be banned from posting coins because most people understand that the chance is 95% or better that any thing they post is for sale? Should people like Charmy be banned because she posts pics from the shows and her new pic ups that are for sale? Should Other dealers that do the same be banned? Should coins for sale on other sites be banned from posting because they are for sale?
How many here can say that every coin they have ever posted or will post will never be for sale at some time in the future?
How about this statement in a PM: Hey johnny54321 it is not a written rule but one that is followed by the members here, coins we have listed on the BST are not to be listed in the CU U.S. coin forum as it is considered bad form. I just wanted to let you know ok, Thank you for you time and consideration.
Reply: Hey Bochiman thanks for the heads up I did not realize that I will go edit that out of my post and pull the coin from the BST for the time being, I have seen others do this and just did not think about it when I posted the coin because I was excited to share it. Again thank you for letting me know and I will place an apology in my thread so others know I have been informed, it is sometimes hard to know all the unwritten rules as they are unwritten.
I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby.
We're still talking about the three-legged Buffalo? Wasn't that like two weeks ago? I just as soon assumed that another person had broached forum etiquette to inspire this thread.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby. >>
Analyze this, doctor.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby. >>
Nothing stopping you from manning up and buying, except, maybe, the man part
<< <i>How about this statement in a PM: Hey johnny54321 it is not a written rule but one that is followed by the members here, coins we have listed on the BST are not to be listed in the CU U.S. coin forum as it is considered bad form. I just wanted to let you know ok, Thank you for you time and consideration.
Reply: Hey Bochiman thanks for the heads up I did not realize that I will go edit that out of my post and pull the coin from the BST for the time being, I have seen others do this and just did not think about it when I posted the coin because I was excited to share it. Again thank you for letting me know and I will place an apology in my thread so others know I have been informed, it is sometimes hard to know all the unwritten rules as they are unwritten >>
BINGO!! Something like that would have been SO much better.
<< <i>I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I can tell you what will happen if you try to sell coins on this forum vs. BST -
YOU WILL BE KICKED OFF!
It's possible that you may get a warning but no guarantee that you will.
PS - we do not have a staff devoted 100% to these forums but we monitor them, and have our informants ( ), enough that not too much gets by.
>>
The toughest thing about unwritten/unknown rules is realizing they exist.
Due to the inherent difficulty in following them before you know they exist, your willingness to 'boot' offenders without any warning seems unfair.
Sort of like learning about an unposted speed limit by getting a speeding ticket, no? >>
It's been mentioned that people typically get warnings before being bammed. And I'm sure the people will be told by other forum members first so in practice, it's likely to be reasonably fair.
Ok, thanks for the heads up......I would like some more detail about where the line is drawn in the sand too like others have mentioned. Although I intended to sell the coin when I posted it, I did not initially intend to sell it on the BST when I posted it...like some members assumed(most of my sales are ebay). I decided to sell it here later in the thread, and what I did on the coin forum is mention that it was on the BST. I did not put a price, payment or shipping information or a link as to the thread I was selling it in. Many folks have links to coins for sale in their profiles, and some folks even have links to the BST for sales in the profile. And as some have mentioned...folks will put coins up for opinions here, and then up for sale in the BST without specifically mentioning it. Obviously, I realize now what I did was a nono(mentioning a coin was for sale in the BST while I was in the US coin forum), and I now understand that....but since this is the type of rule that can get you booted with no warning; I can see how some folks may be crossing the line in the sand without realizing it(especially without the rules posted)....
Johnny just do not post a coin you have listed on the BST and do not post a coin and straight out say it is for sale and you should be good. Do not stop sharing your your coins and asking your questions as that is what this pace is about. Do not worry so much about how some people communicate on the board as some just are very gruff and grumpy. Just let it go as you can see the OP caught some flack also for his actions. This forum always has some drama and at times that drama is funny and at others not so much so just remember this is all on line and it is much easier to type things into a computer than talk with people face to face. You and Bochiman are ok in my book so bothe of you stop grumping and be glad that you are able to post on this board as you woke up and the world has not yet exploded. Cherish each day and most bothersome stuff will become next to nothing.
<< <i>Do not stop sharing your your coins and asking your questions as that is what this pace is about. >>
Agree.
<< <i>Do not worry so much about how some people communicate on the board as some just are very gruff and grumpy. >>
Take it as you will. Some of us are just very much to the point and, in the past, when we have been more "delicate and sensitive", we still got attacked and ignored. Some of us have been here awhile and really like the boards and most members and want to see the boards remain here. There were discussions to close the forums in the past....some of us prefer NOT to have that happen.
<< <i>Just let it go as you can see the OP caught some flack also for his actions. >>
True...not from members that matter though, to be honest. Those who speak up are always bullied around these days. Part and parcel. I don't mind speaking up. My integrity speaks for itself and so I am just a very open and honest person. The issue was simply that a USCF thread on a coin (HEY! LOOK AT THIS COIN!) was started (which, in and of itself is cool), but the same day (not that long apart actually), a BST thread for the same thing was started. I didn't even say anything until the OP of said thread commented in the USCF thread about the coin "Hey, it's for sale on my BST post". Call it what you will....spam, classless, whatever, the member has been a member here for FIVE (5) years. Post count means nothing as there are members here who have been here for years, active read and correspond with other members, and have very few posts (at least 1 member has ZERO posts but has purchased from and communicated with other members for many years).
<< <i>This forum always has some drama and at times that drama is funny and at others not so much so just remember this is all on line and it is much easier to type things into a computer than talk with people face to face. >>
True, drama occurs here. Drama sucks. I did not try to create the drama. I say the dual threads, and commented. The other member decided to get all up in arms on it and have the tantrum. I stated my piece. Aside from trying to keep the forums here and help others, I really don't care as, as other members have mentioned, the way people conduct themselves will determine if I deal with them (help them/buy from them) or not. I am sure some get upset with me and wouldn't deal with me, and that is fine....since I likely wouldn't want to deal with that person either.
It's funny the wants that have gotten all twisted on this......I didn't. Heck, even when johnny54321 came over here and gave that longwinded post about me, I just consider the source. If he was more reasonable and calm, he would not that I didn't call out that thread in the OP (and only mentioned something to the effect of it when directly asked), nor did I mention his name. I started the post for clarity as, if the established status quo had changed, then I would change with it as that is what a reasonable person would do. Being called "gestapo" by a dealer who thought it was ok was interesting as, obviously, someone like that would benefit from a change to where they could post coins for sale anywhere and everywhere.
Every board goes through old members leaving and new members joining. Part of the life cycle of the board (and people) but, what is sad, is that some older members, that have knowledge to share, get burned out by people not caring, by people attacking them when new members break established protocols (and don't try to learn before doing), and just seeing people do things like were done. They may not comment on it, but seeing enough of it, and they get turned off. If your goal is only to come in, sell, and be gone, then you don't care. If your goal is to learn, share, and grow in numismatics, then you should care.
Same thing happens when major flips come from the mint.....some have been so turned off by flippers not trying to learn anything themselves, just coming on, getting info, flipping, and disappearing until the next flip, that a community that once shared so much, now has many of the knowledgeable folks turn aside and not share.
So, to end it, I will just say.......the board is what the members make it. There are no staffed admins. If people want the board to downward spiral, let it be a wild west type of board. If people want to see it maintain its high standards, then self-police and, call a pot a pot and a kettle a kettle (to mix metaphors ).
Being called "gestapo" by a dealer who thought it was ok was interesting as, obviously, someone like that would benefit from a change to where they could post coins for sale anywhere and everywhere.
For the record, I'm the dealer he's talking about. My remarks were made generally and at no point did I say they were about Bochiman in particular. I'm anti-forum cop in general, and haven't been shy about stating it elsewhere.
But if you're going to quote me, at least do it in context.
See for yourself- exact words below:
"Funny...I just now reread the forum rules and nowhere does it say that starting a GTG thread on a coin you plan to sell is prohibited.
Some here need to stop playing forum gestapo. OP was simply proud of something he owned and wanted to share it on a thread."
I'm sorry that you're obviously taking what I said personally, that wasn't my intent... but as to the rest of it, first off- nowhere did I state that "it was ok" to use a thread to sell something. My contention was, and still is, that selling something was not the OP's (johnny's) intent.
As to me "benefiting" from anything... you are welcome to bring up any and all posts I've made and/or threads I've started, and I flat out DEFY you or anyone else to show me anything, ANYTHING I've posted where I've ever even offered anything for sale on BST, much less started a thread about something we have/had for sale. I don't sell here, never have, never had a desire to. We have a 30-year-old business venue for that, not to mention shows, other dealers, eBay and other internet venues. If we wanted to sell here we'd have done it years ago. My thoughts have always been that BST was created and intended more for use by collectors and not so much by dealers.
Laying that aside...Based on Don's post, I see where he stands on creation of a thread to sell something here, and I respect that entirely. That said, I maintain that isn't what johnny was trying to do-and apparently the powers that be agree, as no sanction was imposed.
Friendly suggestion to Don...you might want to consider putting this in print as an official rule in the BST forum rules in the interest of clarity, particularly for newcomers down the line.
. i wanted to make one more post to this thread since imo, the title is not correct since rule 10 addresses this issue. if you want advertising space outside the signature line, contact the advertising dept. simple enough i think.
of course, quoting D.W.'s post from this thread will quash any future interpretations of advertising on the chat boards. ty for that D.W.
also it is nice that we don't have to argue about interpretations of this rule. it is rock-solid now; although something is lingering in the back of my mind that i think i remember pcgs addressing this in the past, perhaps more than once. i will bookmark this thread for the future. since i didn't get any possible previous ones.
The OP has his opinions about me, so I let it rest, no need to get a last word in over this silliness..... There it is, thanks Magikbilly. to all...including the OP.
Comments
<< <i>from an investors point of view, CLCT needs to monetize the BST. The BST should be taken down and only paying Collectors Club members or dealers should be allowed to post coins for sale on Collectors Corner. >>
From a non investors view, I agree with you. No such thing as a free lunch, especially when Ebay fees have risen exponentially.
In the meantime, I enjoy and continue to use the free BST service.
<< <i>Personally, I don't think its ok to share coins on the USCF that are for sale, whether on the BST or else where. I personally don't share upgrades, cool finds or cherry picks that I know I will be selling, no matter how substantial. >>
SPAM, IMO, is unwanted and unwarranted solicitation. It can be casual or along the lines of Hurricane Sandy, with the point being, it is totally out of the blue and unexpected about something with which you have no interest in at all. Simple unwanted advertising.
I personally didn't bother to open the "1937-d 3 legger back from anacs" since I have no interest in these over hyped die anomalies. That's the nature of a coin forum. You can look at/respond to whatever you want as you are never forced into opening each and every thread. It's your choice.
As such, if a person comes along crowing about a coin s/he just got back from some grading service that doesn't even belong on the "PCGS" Forums, it is my option on whether or not I even want to bother with the thread. (This time I didn't until this thread popped up)
We can pick and choose. Again, if a casual line is dropped about whether or not the coin being discussed is for sale on the BST, I can pick or choose on whether or not I want to pursue it even further. I mean, it's not like there aren't dealers among us that really want to sell their stuff and what better way to sell it than to let folks start talking about it.
It's not really my position to "enforce" the rules of the forum although I am guilty of doing that exact thing. Posting reminders of forum rules that PCGS has posted which I try to abide by and find it insensitive that others do not.
I belong to the CoinTalk forum which has a similar policy about "selling" items on their US Coins Forum. The primary difference between them and here is that they actually have forum administrators that DO police the forums. They edit posts, issue warnings, delete accounts and perform all the duties one would expect of a Forum Administrator. In cases such as the original thread, a single mention "might" have been allowed. A second mention would have been deleted regardless of how it was mentioned. (BTW, that forum has paid supporters but that is totally optional. What this means is that folks DO want to talk Coins and ARE willing to pay to support such a venue.)
If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
The name is LEE!
No point in having a temper tantrum when a perceived offense occurs. Especially the first time.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
Hiring a person costs money. CLCT makes virtually no money on the forums. All the ad revenue is from the PCGS site (pop reports, price guides, etc). Traffic on the forums is minimal and therefore any ad revenue is minimal. I would guess CLCT breaks even here. Hiring an admin would make this a money losing proposition. Not gonna happen.
Just for clarification(in case anyone is wondering), he is specifically referring to my "3-legged buffalo" guess the grade thread. I have nothing to hide. I don't sell here very often, but have posted a lot of "please grade" or "guess the grade" threads. I posted ONE coin, that I decided to sell on the BST....and mentioned that in the thread. For the record, I am sorry to all that were offended by my mentioning that. Did Bochiman privately PM me to tell me this was "un-kosher"? Did he politely state on the forum that this is not usually acceptable. No. He went on the forum and essentially called it SPAM with sarcasism stating that maybe everyone will do this....etc. I immediately removed my coin from the BST. A polite "thank you" would have sufficed. I bumped it on the BST, more to let others know that it was removed, while he was implying that I was somehow furthering my spam by "bumping" the thread.....with a whole "well I'd expect that from someone like you" type of attitude, when he doesnt know me. Again, I am truly sorry to everyone who was offended by my incorrect bumping. I removed the other coin for sale. Now there is nothing on the BST for anyone to be offended over. Why are you still whining about this Bochiman...YOU WON! I TOOK IT DOWN! What is funny to me though, is Bochiman hands sarcasm out like candy to get his point across about my SPAMMing.....but when someone sarcastically calls him "Gustapo" or "forum police", he can't take it and has to start a separate thread whining about it. Most folks on the thread realize that I am not a SPAMMER and were defending that. I am sorry that I violated the unpronounced rules....it was a one time occurrence and obviously will not happen again. It honestly was not intended to be SPAM, I like to get opinions on many of my coins to further my knowlege, and this just happened to be one that I decided to sell in multiple venues. There were better ways Bochiman could have handled it.....and I believe that is part of why folks were speaking out.
<< <i>Here's my take on this subject.
SPAM, IMO, is unwanted and unwarranted solicitation. It can be casual or along the lines of Hurricane Sandy, with the point being, it is totally out of the blue and unexpected about something with which you have no interest in at all. Simple unwanted advertising.
I personally didn't bother to open the "1937-d 3 legger back from anacs" since I have no interest in these over hyped die anomalies. That's the nature of a coin forum. You can look at/respond to whatever you want as you are never forced into opening each and every thread. It's your choice.
As such, if a person comes along crowing about a coin s/he just got back from some grading service that doesn't even belong on the "PCGS" Forums, it is my option on whether or not I even want to bother with the thread. (This time I didn't until this thread popped up)
We can pick and choose. Again, if a casual line is dropped about whether or not the coin being discussed is for sale on the BST, I can pick or choose on whether or not I want to pursue it even further. I mean, it's not like there aren't dealers among us that really want to sell their stuff and what better way to sell it than to let folks start talking about it.
It's not really my position to "enforce" the rules of the forum although I am guilty of doing that exact thing. Posting reminders of forum rules that PCGS has posted which I try to abide by and find it insensitive that others do not.
I belong to the CoinTalk forum which has a similar policy about "selling" items on their US Coins Forum. The primary difference between them and here is that they actually have forum administrators that DO police the forums. They edit posts, issue warnings, delete accounts and perform all the duties one would expect of a Forum Administrator. In cases such as the original thread, a single mention "might" have been allowed. A second mention would have been deleted regardless of how it was mentioned. (BTW, that forum has paid supporters but that is totally optional. What this means is that folks DO want to talk Coins and ARE willing to pay to support such a venue.)
If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder. >>
Well put, Lee!!!
How much do you want for it?
"How much do you want for it?" One billion dollars(with pinky raised)....lol.
<< <i>"How much do you want for it?" One billion dollars(with pinky raised)....lol. >>
If we made a deal right in this thread, that would be priceless!
<< <i>If PCGS were to take this forum as seriously as most of the members here do, then they'd hire an administrative team so that folks could get back to the business of discussing and sharing coin information.
Until that happens, then all should expect to be reminded of the rules on an as needed basis and NOT take offense at the reminder.
Hiring a person costs money. CLCT makes virtually no money on the forums. All the ad revenue is from the PCGS site (pop reports, price guides, etc). Traffic on the forums is minimal and therefore any ad revenue is minimal. I would guess CLCT breaks even here. Hiring an admin would make this a money losing proposition. Not gonna happen. >>
Baloney.
PCGS most certainly generates revenue from the Coin Forums but since you're inclined to support a "lack of supervision", CoinTalk has admins and they aren't a business at all. You see, these are "trusted" volunteers that insure that the rules are followed.
There are MANY posters here that fully qualify as admins. AND, BTW, it costs next to nothing to host a forum in the overall scheme of things.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>If it was allowed, I'm afraid the USCF and the BST would become the same forum. It would be one GTG thread after another. >>
To be perfectly honest, I view every GTG thread as a potential sale thread which is why there is a Private Message function which is where ole "wabbits" post should have gone.
But then, it wouldn't stir up as much muck now would it?
"Z-I-n-g"
The name is LEE!
<< <i>To be perfectly honest, I view every GTG thread as a potential sale thread [...] >>
Then I would say you are a cynic. Every coin posted anywhere is potentially for sale at some price, but whatever
happened to innocent until proven guilty? When somebody does cross the line, a polite reminder of the rules should
be the first step. Not everybody is aware of the unwritten etiquette around here, after all.
This is just so crazy over the mention of a coin being for sale. Should all the dealers be banned from posting coins because most people understand that the chance is 95% or better that any thing they post is for sale?
Should people like Charmy be banned because she posts pics from the shows and her new pic ups that are for sale? Should Other dealers that do the same be banned? Should coins for sale on other sites be banned from posting because they are for sale?
How many here can say that every coin they have ever posted or will post will never be for sale at some time in the future?
How about this statement in a PM: Hey johnny54321 it is not a written rule but one that is followed by the members here, coins we have listed on the BST are not to be listed in the CU U.S. coin forum as it is considered bad form. I just wanted to let you know ok, Thank you for you time and consideration.
Reply: Hey Bochiman thanks for the heads up I did not realize that I will go edit that out of my post and pull the coin from the BST for the time being, I have seen others do this and just did not think about it when I posted the coin because I was excited to share it. Again thank you for letting me know and I will place an apology in my thread so others know I have been informed, it is sometimes hard to know all the unwritten rules as they are unwritten.
I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby. >>
Analyze this, doctor.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>I am not making a legit offer. I am poking fun at the whole foolishness of this thread, and how foolish the other thread became from an innocent mistake. I can't believe I have to even explain that!
So many take all this stuff way too serious. Hell, one guy even puts "1/400th PCGS owner" in his signature line. He spent way to much alone time in his crib as a baby. >>
Nothing stopping you from manning up and buying, except, maybe, the man part
YOU WILL BE KICKED OFF!
It's possible that you may get a warning but no guarantee that you will.
PS - we do not have a staff devoted 100% to these forums but we monitor them, and have our informants (
<< <i>How about this statement in a PM: Hey johnny54321 it is not a written rule but one that is followed by the members here, coins we have listed on the BST are not to be listed in the CU U.S. coin forum as it is considered bad form. I just wanted to let you know ok, Thank you for you time and consideration.
Reply: Hey Bochiman thanks for the heads up I did not realize that I will go edit that out of my post and pull the coin from the BST for the time being, I have seen others do this and just did not think about it when I posted the coin because I was excited to share it. Again thank you for letting me know and I will place an apology in my thread so others know I have been informed, it is sometimes hard to know all the unwritten rules as they are unwritten >>
BINGO!! Something like that would have been SO much better.
<< <i>
<< <i>I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I can tell you what will happen if you try to sell coins on this forum vs. BST -
YOU WILL BE KICKED OFF!
It's possible that you may get a warning but no guarantee that you will.
PS - we do not have a staff devoted 100% to these forums but we monitor them, and have our informants (
The toughest thing about unwritten/unknown rules is realizing they exist.
Due to the inherent difficulty in following them before you know they exist, your willingness to 'boot' offenders without any warning seems unfair.
Sort of like learning about an unposted speed limit by getting a speeding ticket, no? >>
It's been mentioned that people typically get warnings before being bammed. And I'm sure the people will be told by other forum members first so in practice, it's likely to be reasonably fair.
<< <i>
<< <i>I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I can tell you what will happen if you try to sell coins on this forum vs. BST -
YOU WILL BE KICKED OFF!
It's possible that you may get a warning but no guarantee that you will.
PS - we do not have a staff devoted 100% to these forums but we monitor them, and have our informants (
The toughest thing about unwritten/unknown rules is realizing they exist.
Due to the inherent difficulty in following them before you know they exist, your willingness to 'boot' offenders without any warning seems unfair.
Sort of like learning about an unposted speed limit by getting a speeding ticket, no? >>
Depends if you're going 65 in a 55, or 75 in a school zone.
Eric
<< <i>Do not stop sharing your your coins and asking your questions as that is what this pace is about. >>
Agree.
<< <i>Do not worry so much about how some people communicate on the board as some just are very gruff and grumpy. >>
Take it as you will. Some of us are just very much to the point and, in the past, when we have been more "delicate and sensitive", we still got attacked and ignored. Some of us have been here awhile and really like the boards and most members and want to see the boards remain here. There were discussions to close the forums in the past....some of us prefer NOT to have that happen.
<< <i>Just let it go as you can see the OP caught some flack also for his actions. >>
True...not from members that matter though, to be honest. Those who speak up are always bullied around these days. Part and parcel. I don't mind speaking up. My integrity speaks for itself and so I am just a very open and honest person. The issue was simply that a USCF thread on a coin (HEY! LOOK AT THIS COIN!) was started (which, in and of itself is cool), but the same day (not that long apart actually), a BST thread for the same thing was started. I didn't even say anything until the OP of said thread commented in the USCF thread about the coin "Hey, it's for sale on my BST post". Call it what you will....spam, classless, whatever, the member has been a member here for FIVE (5) years. Post count means nothing as there are members here who have been here for years, active read and correspond with other members, and have very few posts (at least 1 member has ZERO posts but has purchased from and communicated with other members for many years).
<< <i>This forum always has some drama and at times that drama is funny and at others not so much so just remember this is all on line and it is much easier to type things into a computer than talk with people face to face. >>
True, drama occurs here. Drama sucks. I did not try to create the drama. I say the dual threads, and commented. The other member decided to get all up in arms on it and have the tantrum. I stated my piece. Aside from trying to keep the forums here and help others, I really don't care as, as other members have mentioned, the way people conduct themselves will determine if I deal with them (help them/buy from them) or not. I am sure some get upset with me and wouldn't deal with me, and that is fine....since I likely wouldn't want to deal with that person either.
It's funny the wants that have gotten all twisted on this......I didn't. Heck, even when johnny54321 came over here and gave that longwinded post about me, I just consider the source. If he was more reasonable and calm, he would not that I didn't call out that thread in the OP (and only mentioned something to the effect of it when directly asked), nor did I mention his name. I started the post for clarity as, if the established status quo had changed, then I would change with it as that is what a reasonable person would do. Being called "gestapo" by a dealer who thought it was ok was interesting as, obviously, someone like that would benefit from a change to where they could post coins for sale anywhere and everywhere.
Every board goes through old members leaving and new members joining. Part of the life cycle of the board (and people) but, what is sad, is that some older members, that have knowledge to share, get burned out by people not caring, by people attacking them when new members break established protocols (and don't try to learn before doing), and just seeing people do things like were done. They may not comment on it, but seeing enough of it, and they get turned off. If your goal is only to come in, sell, and be gone, then you don't care. If your goal is to learn, share, and grow in numismatics, then you should care.
Same thing happens when major flips come from the mint.....some have been so turned off by flippers not trying to learn anything themselves, just coming on, getting info, flipping, and disappearing until the next flip, that a community that once shared so much, now has many of the knowledgeable folks turn aside and not share.
So, to end it, I will just say.......the board is what the members make it. There are no staffed admins. If people want the board to downward spiral, let it be a wild west type of board. If people want to see it maintain its high standards, then self-police and, call a pot a pot and a kettle a kettle (to mix metaphors
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>
Only for you, Gil
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
For the record, I'm the dealer he's talking about. My remarks were made generally and at no point did I say they were about Bochiman in particular. I'm anti-forum cop in general, and haven't been shy about stating it elsewhere.
But if you're going to quote me, at least do it in context.
See for yourself- exact words below:
"Funny...I just now reread the forum rules and nowhere does it say that starting a GTG thread on a coin you plan to sell is prohibited.
Some here need to stop playing forum gestapo. OP was simply proud of something he owned and wanted to share it on a thread."
I'm sorry that you're obviously taking what I said personally, that wasn't my intent... but as to the rest of it, first off- nowhere did I state that "it was ok" to use a thread to sell something. My contention was, and still is, that selling something was not the OP's (johnny's) intent.
As to me "benefiting" from anything... you are welcome to bring up any and all posts I've made and/or threads I've started, and I flat out DEFY you or anyone else to show me anything, ANYTHING I've posted where I've ever even offered anything for sale on BST, much less started a thread about something we have/had for sale. I don't sell here, never have, never had a desire to. We have a 30-year-old business venue for that, not to mention shows, other dealers, eBay and other internet venues. If we wanted to sell here we'd have done it years ago. My thoughts have always been that BST was created and intended more for use by collectors and not so much by dealers.
Laying that aside...Based on Don's post, I see where he stands on creation of a thread to sell something here, and I respect that entirely. That said, I maintain that isn't what johnny was trying to do-and apparently the powers that be agree, as no sanction was imposed.
Friendly suggestion to Don...you might want to consider putting this in print as an official rule in the BST forum rules in the interest of clarity, particularly for newcomers down the line.
Edit for typo and clarity.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
i wanted to make one more post to this thread since imo, the title is not correct since rule 10 addresses this issue. if you want advertising space outside the signature line, contact the advertising dept. simple enough i think.
of course, quoting D.W.'s post from this thread will quash any future interpretations of advertising on the chat boards. ty for that D.W.
also it is nice that we don't have to argue about interpretations of this rule. it is rock-solid now; although something is lingering in the back of my mind that i think i remember pcgs addressing this in the past, perhaps more than once. i will bookmark this thread for the future. since i didn't get any possible previous ones.
i'm not piling-on or bashing the op.
.