Since it's not listed in DonWillis' posted rules, is it now ok to SELL coins on the USCF?
Bochiman
Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
Used to be that it was forbidden/strongly discouraged to post a coin on the USCF at the same time mentioning it was for sale or having same coin on the BST.
Many thousands of people abided by that. Made things cleaner. Dealers didn't use the USCF for their sales (neither did collectors) and the BST was used instead.
Now, when someone does it, and it is brought up, there are a small grouping that calls that person "forum cop" or "gestapo", and that nothing was wrong.
So, is it now ok (with Don as well as the members here) for people to post coins for sale on the USCF? Not talking about posting a coin and the thread continuing and then coin goes up on BST.....talking about same day and mentioning in the USCF thread that the coin is for sale (all same time/day).
Just looking for forum clarity here. No name calling (unlike what others are doing) or anything....just forum conventions.....
Many thousands of people abided by that. Made things cleaner. Dealers didn't use the USCF for their sales (neither did collectors) and the BST was used instead.
Now, when someone does it, and it is brought up, there are a small grouping that calls that person "forum cop" or "gestapo", and that nothing was wrong.
So, is it now ok (with Don as well as the members here) for people to post coins for sale on the USCF? Not talking about posting a coin and the thread continuing and then coin goes up on BST.....talking about same day and mentioning in the USCF thread that the coin is for sale (all same time/day).
Just looking for forum clarity here. No name calling (unlike what others are doing) or anything....just forum conventions.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
-Paul
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Absolutely not. It's too bad people get on your case for enforcing common sense rules, whether they are posted or not.
-Paul >>
The Circle Of Trust is Gone, The Mods Are Gone. Whoever does the Price Guide is Gone.........Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
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I think it says something about that persons character.
If someone violates that it should be handled in a calm, civil manner and best through PMs so as not to clog up the boards with rants that go back and forth.
I think some may do it accidentally and a simple PM to point out the rules should work.
That being said, if someone repeatedly violates this rule then a public trashing is OK in my book.
What really has become an issue is people bumping their own for sale posts on the BST more than once a day.
Some here have repeatedly done that without being called out while others do it once and get hammered.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
IMO the ones that stick up for the sneaky sliminess are the ones that want to and do it themselves.
Well, this is another coin I have, a recent pickup but it's just not as good as my #1 coin. I don't think I'll keep it. I'm looking for a higher grade. I think I'll sell this coin to generate funds for a better coin. This coin does not match my set so I think I'll pass it onto someone else. This series is really not my game. I'm really not a collector for this type of coin. I don't like this or that about the coin, I thought it world grade higher. I guess I'll just have to keep looking.
Any line that might trigger someone to send a PM message..........
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Ok, one more brainstorm on this and I'm done. How about coming up with lines in your post other than saying outright that the coin is for sale....
Well, this is another coin I have, a recent pickup but it's just not as good as my #1 coin. I don't think I'll keep it. I'm looking for a higher grade. I think I'll sell this coin to generate funds for a better coin. This coin does not match my set so I think I'll pass it onto someone else. This series is really not my game. I'm really not a collector for this type of coin. I don't like this or that about the coin, I thought it world grade higher. I guess I'll just have to keep looking.
Any line that might trigger someone to send a PM message..........
Leo >>
And hope for the PM's to roll in. Yes some think they are very "creative" and many on here go for it so I guess it's OK right?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Bochiman---I'm curious. Can we see a pic of this coin? >>
Sure,
Go check another's person's thread where I am called a Gestapo and forum cop
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
To make it easier why not just tell the guys that talk about a coin they have for sale to just put a link to it in their sig line as that is ok as long as it is not mentioned in the body of the thread or post?
<< <i>How is mentioning a coin is for sale any different than having a link to your coins for sale on your posts? So lets say I post a monster toned Morgan to share it before selling the coin but don,t say it is for sale but include a link to my coins for sale that go to that coin like others have on their sig line in every post? Is it ok to let people know it will or is for sale that way? What is the main reason behind not talking about a coin that is for sale especially if it is rare and or an amazing stunner of a coin? I collect coins but at times have to sell some of those coins so I can buy others I am now more interested in as I am not a billionaire and am on the low side of middle class, whats wrong with that? >>
And what's wrong with using the BST for what it is intended for? I sell a coin once in a while and I always use the BST. I don't need to try and be sneaky about it. But that's just me and others that go by what this forum is intended for. Of course some get away with the spam because most are afraid to call them out on it. Especially the "Heavy Hitters" around here. We wouldn't want to upset their blatant spam as they might go somewhere else.
<< <i>Bochiman do you really care what that person is calling you? You have been called names before and will again so you should be used to it by now, lol >>
Nope. I honestly don't care. I look at the source. The ones that call the names are either people with a napoleon complex (making up for something lacking) or, as already stated above by someone, people who want to do it themselves so they make the excuses and call names of the folks that call it out.
That said, there have been enough changes over the years and, if Don and the majority of the board want it a certain way (pandemonium via selling threads on each and every post/thread/forum), then I won't say a thing.
However, when someone that registered years ago, comes in and does something, and isn't a newbie but claims ignorance, does it....I don't mind saying something. Then, when a small, vocal, grouping, sticks up for it and makes whining noises..... well, it is what it is.
This forum is great for sellers.... that's why the ads are here....PCGS makes money from them. If there wasn't value in selling to people of these forums, fewer dealers would be here, the ads wouldn't get purchased, etc.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have no links or refererences regarding how I tolerate people in my sig line. I have no sig line.
Here is the offending OP's initial post from "another's person's thread where [this thread's OP is] called a Gestapo and forum cop"
OP of that thread...<< thanks guys! ANACS gave it an AU55, and it is up for sale in the BST!! >>
OP of this thread's response...
Thanks for the SPAM thread then.
Now, if only EVERYONE who is selling something on the BST would be kind enough to start a spam thread in the USCF, pretending to be a "guess the grade", or a "look what just came back", we would be all set.....
I thought the other thread's author was excited about his/her coin, the thread did not strike me as SPAM. I saw no "pretending". I have not seen any instances of abuse from that author.
The BST reference could have been an innocent error (maybe not). In any event, the OP of this thread should consider being polite and courteous first.
Eric
A couple thoughts:
(1) I didn't think the other OP was doing something sneaky. I thought it was more that he wasn't familiar with the "etiquette" of the USCF. I may be wrong but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
(2) I re-read the Posting Rules and I can't see where any rule was broken in the other thread.
(3) There is a lot of gray area here. I agree with lostincoins where he says you can sell or promote anything you want in your sig line.
(4) I would add the same thing about the usernames? There are several usernames that are eBay store names, internet store names, B&M stores or dealer names.
(5) You can't post coins for sale? Some do, and get away with it regularly. In fact, they are usually praised for it. "Here are pics of my cases" or "Here are some of my newps from the show"
(6) Spamming. That happens here also. There is one poster in particular that it just seems to me that in nearly every post he promotes his business or his auctions or his business model. I have to agree with stman who says, "Of course some get away with the spam because most are afraid to call them out on it. Especially the "Heavy Hitters" around here. We wouldn't want to upset their blatant spam as they might go somewhere else."
I've probably offended enough people by now, so I will be moving along.
Good Day
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Oh BTW, I've also seen folks stick up for the spam on this forum by saying...... I don't check the BST so this helps me. Well, check the BST and don't be so darn lazy. and quit condoning flat out spam of this forum. I have some more but I'll stop........ for now. >>
It would be helpful if the BST was upgraded to work like "Collectors Corner." At least it is searchable, the BST you can easily miss things because you can't put everything in the title. Going through each listing is too time consuming.
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh BTW, I've also seen folks stick up for the spam on this forum by saying...... I don't check the BST so this helps me. Well, check the BST and don't be so darn lazy. and quit condoning flat out spam of this forum. I have some more but I'll stop........ for now. >>
It would be helpful if the BST was upgraded to work like "Collectors Corner." At least it is searchable, the BST you can easily miss things because you can't put everything in the title. Going through each listing is too time consuming. >>
The BST is searchable. All of the forums here are searchable, and you can search more than just the title.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I had a situation not all that long ago, when I mentioned to a newbie that
his post was against the rules on the US Coin Forum. ( This was after I warned
him by PM a couple of times).
You would have thought I was a child murderer ... I was besieged by a number
of members who said this wasn't Nazi Germany. That hit a cord with me and I
imploded. Coming to this country from Germany immediately after WW-II, I had
my fair share of discrimination and name calling for being something I was not.
Born in Germany to Irish and Belgian parents, I spoke German and English as a child.
The anti German sentiment was such that I refused to speak German again.
If there is a no Posting of Coins for Sale policy - then it should be outlined in print;
not just in word of mouth. I was called out on this point as well...."show me where it's
written you can't sell on the US Coin Forum." It was a very taxing point and I decided
for a few months to never post again.
I enjoy this forum too much to completely disassociate myself from it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
I don't agree, but I don't agree with starting new threads in the hope of rebuilding support, because you are bummed out about being burned to the ground in another thread!
this is one of the practices that I alluded to a week or two back with a thread and I was rebuffed. the rule used to be commonly understood and if someone said something as you did they would be supported by other members; not anymore. there are too many who want the "first shot" at stuff so some unscrupulous members have figured out ways to skirt the rules.
that has always happened. there is a "forum darling" who is no longer a member(he's banned for other reasons) that used to start threads about coins at his firm, complete with links, and then seemed perplexed when it was pointed out to him that the practice was a no-no. another current member used to post about coins he had listed on eBay(this type of spam is sort of routine) complete with the same pictures at that site. still other members who were regular submitters to PCGS and NGC would start threads with "Grades Posted" and a cut/paste of their submission results --- their "following" knew that was a signal to contact them for a purchase.
it is against forum policy as I know it to post stuff here that you're selling and it seems unethical to have someone do that for you in a sneaky way. the only way it will stop is for members to say something as you did with the risk of being seen as a pariah. though we have had our differences in the past I feel you have taken the high road on this issue, more should do likewise.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh BTW, I've also seen folks stick up for the spam on this forum by saying...... I don't check the BST so this helps me. Well, check the BST and don't be so darn lazy. and quit condoning flat out spam of this forum. I have some more but I'll stop........ for now. >>
It would be helpful if the BST was upgraded to work like "Collectors Corner." At least it is searchable, the BST you can easily miss things because you can't put everything in the title. Going through each listing is too time consuming. >>
The BST is searchable. All of the forums here are searchable, and you can search more than just the title. >>
My experience with the search is that there is plenty of room for improvement.
<< <i>(5) You can't post coins for sale? Some do, and get away with it regularly. In fact, they are usually praised for it. "Here are pics of my cases" or "Here are some of my newps from the show" >>
Yeah, they didn't always do this..... this is one of the newer "clever" ways lately.
<< <i>Regardless of any rules, most folks attempting BST on USCF get shouted down pretty quickly....just sayin'........ >>
Agree. In the old days, I used to get all hot and lathered about this issue, but more recently, I let the self-policing mechanism led by upstanding folks like Bochiman do the heavy lifting, so I can spend more time with more important issues like deciding which wine to drink tonight.
Oh, and I make it a point to avoid doing business with the offending Wannabes.
Erik
AMEN! To me the BS&T is useless the way it works now.
A thread I was informed about the unwritten rule and I never bothered to come back with any reply I just let it go.....
My Washington Type B/C Set
Hoard the keys.
<< <i> Some folks can really take all the fun out of this hobby.... >>
but only if you let them.
<< <i>Now, when someone does it, and it is brought up, there are a small grouping that calls that person "forum cop" or "gestapo", and that nothing was wrong. >>
if someone blatantly advertised outside their signature on any forum outside the BST, i'd give them a week off to think about it, perhaps longer depending on frequency of offenses.
now if someone posted a coin that "happened" to be for sale somewhere else but didn't mention it or link to it, personally, that doesn't bug me cuz at least you have to track it down like you would normally.
i know i post some on the USCF that are for sale from time to time but i don't mention that it/they are available. i buy and sell and like to share from time to time so it is gonna happen. but probably less than 6 times a year if that. when i do post one that happens to be available somewhere else, it is not my intent to get advertising for it and don't mention it being available.
now when someone gets a newp and shares it here and then lists it for sale shortly after, that is a gray area. sure people are going to see it here and then perhaps go look for it elsewhere but i guess so long as the poster doesn't mention it being available and doesn't link to it, i guess i don't have a problem and right when someone gets something new is probably going to be the period they want to share it.
all of this is exempt if it is listed on the bst here. imo, it is too close for it to be ok to post on the message boards and then directly to the bst. conflict of interest from my pov.
.
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<< <i>from an investors point of view, CLCT needs to monetize the BST. The BST should be taken down and only paying Collectors Club members or dealers should be allowed to post coins for sale on Collectors Corner. >>
I disagree. Here is an analogy:
When Wi-Fi first came out in cafe's, you had to be a paying customer to use it. In fact, many places you had to go ask for the password. Then the big boys like McDonalds got involved. They realize that free Wi-Fi for everyone is a way to increase traffic into the store. Guess what people do when they are in McDonalds, they buy stuff. I can walk into any McDonalds and sit down and use the Wi-Fi for free without buying anything. Guess what I always do when I use "free" Wi-Fi anywhere? I buy something. Guess where I go when I need Wi-Fi? Somewhere that has it for free.
No need to monetize the BST. It is serving its purpose by driving current and potential customers to the PCGS site.
Free water was and is a way to get customers to stop.
As far as selling or advertising coins on the USCF, I think a gentle reminder is much better than a harsh slamming. Words have meaning and some carry more dramatic and incendiary results than others.