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Should these be reported? Dcarr overstrike 2009 Proofed Silver Eagle in a US Mint box with COA

MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 39,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

2009 SILVER EAGLE PROOF OVERSTRIKE ~ PROOFED WITH COA AND COIN WORLD EXCERPT
MINT PROOF CAPSULE, CASE, BOX, COA & COIN WORLD EXCERPT

on ebay

seller dgreider5iht

Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions

Comments

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 25,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes!
    But only if we're also allowed to report you.

    image



    (((That seller has this item listed under fantasy issues therefor it lies within eBay's policy...)))

    imageimage
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Listed in category: Coins & Paper Money>Exonumia>Fantasy Issue Coins

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 31,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    its all written up in the posting but i agree that the paperwork and the sorts shouldnt be with it. use your judgement.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you recall how I was hung out to dry by several members last week for complaining about the packaging, right?? it will be interesting to see how those same members respond to you.
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    Technically it is probably ok, but I can see where a potential buyer could be misled.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.

    1.Listed in category: Coins & Paper Money>Exonumia>Fantasy Issue Coins.Coins.grrr.

    2.Purchase includes Coin World excerpt and most important,

    3Disclaimer: This Coin Is Not An Official Mint Product And Is Not Authorized As Legal Tender By The US Mint, Department Of Treasury Or The US Government.

    My only objection to this auction is calling an ASE a coin. A coin it never was nor ever can be,overstamp notwithstanding.

    It is the duty of us members of the Numismatic Illuminati to help stamp out ignorance about coin collecting whenever we see it.
    image

    The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
    Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,749 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>you recall how I was hung out to dry by several members last week for complaining about the packaging, right?? it will be interesting to see how those same members respond to you. >>



    They can go after me too.

    A genuine certified counterfeit," image complete with a genuine U.S. mint packaging. image If this stuff had "COPY" on it, it would be okay, but as it is the thing is deceptive plain and simple. image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would love to buy it (not at that price) and mix it in with my other proof SAEs, forget about it for a decade or two, and see what happens down the road when I, or someone else tries to sell it, then start a thread about it, and watch all he'll break loose. image

    Edit: (Quite a run-on sentence image )
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,787 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the packaging authentic? >>



    Appears to be, though the inscription on the box "PROOF COIN" is certainly deceptive.
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    THIS COIN IS SURE TO BECOME ALMOST UNOBTAINABLE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE.


    image
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>My only objection to this auction is calling an ASE a coin. >>



    ...Real ASE's are legal tender. If not a coin, what are they?
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My only objection to this auction is calling an ASE a coin. A coin it never was nor ever can be,overstamp notwithstanding. >>


    An ASE is legal tender, is issued by a government and has a face value stamped on it. It is primarily used as a store of value rather than a medium of exchange, although under certain circumstances (such as hyperinflation) it could be employed for that purpose also.

    That's a coin in my book.

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this a real 2009 Silver Eagle?
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    COA from "Royal Palm International". What could possibly go wrong?!
    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • Let loose the Numismatic Ninjas upon this miscreant!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,497 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>you recall how I was hung out to dry by several members last week for complaining about the packaging, right?? it will be interesting to see how those same members respond to you. >>

    The "packaging" adds a certain level of deception in conjunction with the self made certificate of authenticity.

    I could imagine someone new to DCARR Coins could possibly believe that they are buying an authentic US Mint Product which was never issued.

    I would prefer that the listing be "without" US Mint packaging.

    Additionally, to the inexperienced individual, the following statement is definitately deceiving:

    "THE ONLY ONE LIKE IT WITH COA & COIN WORLD EXCERPT"

    I could make one up right this moment if I really wanted to pull one over on folks.

    On the plus side, the BIN Price is about right IMO.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One should mind one's own business.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The description is fairly clear this is a Dan Carr coin overstrike, that there are 4,539 of these, and does say that coin isn't legal tender (though that may be debateable). Other statements like there are no coins like it seem a bit sensational but as mentioned, it does say there are 4,538 other ones struck.



    << <i>2009 PROOF SILVER EAGLE OVERSTRIKE W/CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY

    THE ONLY ONE LIKE IT WITH COA & COIN WORLD EXCERPT

    *** RARE ~ THIN DC* MINT MARK ~ RARE ***

    US MINT PROOF CAPSULE, PROOF PRESENTATION CASE AND PROOF AMERICAN EAGLE BOX

    INCLUDES CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY AND MOONLIGHT MINT STATEMENT

    INCLUDES COIN WORLD EXCERPT

    THE COIN THAT HAS BEEN OVERSTRUCK BY DANIAL CARR TO A PROOF FINISH

    THIS BEAUTIFUL COIN IS THE HOT TOPIC OF THE NUMISMATIC WORLD

    THE OCTOBER 25, 2010 EDITION OF COIN WORLD MAGAZINE RECENTLY RELEASED A LARGE WRITE-UP ON DANIEL CARR'S 2009 PROOF SILVER AMERICAN EAGLE DETAILING HIS PROCESS AND DESIGN. THE TOTAL COIN MINTAGE OF THESE 2009 SILVER EAGLE OVERSTRIKES IS 4,539 PIECES. THE 2010 THRU 2013 PROOF SILVER AMERICAN EAGLES HAVE BEEN RELEASED BY THE U.S. MINT. THIS 2009 SILVER EAGLE PROOF OVERSTRIKE COIN WITH CAPSULE, BOX, CASE AND COA IS THE PERFECT ADDITION TO ANYONE'S SILVER EAGLE PROOF SET.

    ENCAPSULED AND PRESENTED IN A US MINT PROOF CAPSULE, PRESENTATION CASE, OUTER BOX &

    CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY & MOONLIGHT MINT STATEMENT

    ~ INCLUDES COIN WORLD EXCERPT ~

    WITH SUCH A LOW - LOW FINAL MINTAGE, THIS COIN IS SURE TO BECOME ALMOST UNOBTAINABLE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE. GET ONE WHILE YOU CAN !!!!

    Disclaimer: This Coin Is Not An Official Mint Product And Is Not Authorized As Legal Tender By The US Mint, Department Of Treasury Or The US Government

    CHECK MY E-BAY RATING AND BUY WITH CONFIDENCE FROM A TRUSTED SELLER >>

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780
    IMO, the really sneaky visual part is the use of the same border on both certificates to imply shared origin - the Moonlight Mint "statement" and the certificate of authenticity.

    Eric
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have not figured out if it's coin collectors or in fact numismatists that have too much time on their hands

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780


    << <i>I have not figured out if it's coin collectors or in fact numismatists that have too much time on their hands

    MJ >>




    My guess is half of one and six dozen of the other image
    Er...um. Well. image

    Eric
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,501 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,501 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank. >>



    This is true. He sure gets a lot of free advertising here.image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank. >>



    This is true. He sure gets a lot of free advertising here.image >>


    And I really feel all this advertisement will get him in hot water for all these fantasy production coins one day!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,749 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank. >>



    This is true. He sure gets a lot of free advertising here.image >>



    Comments like this illustrate the method certain politicians use to stifle comments, with which they do not agree, on controversial issues. I find this practice disgusting and disturbing. It's called "political correctness."

    Let's look at this way. Say you would like to have a 1921-D Buffalo nickel to go with your 1921-D Mercury dime, but there is a small problem. The U.S. mint system did not mint any nickels at the Denver mint in 1921. No problem. A fellow makes up a set of dies with the 1921-D combination and uses them to over strike a genuine 1921-P nickel. Or if that seems like too much trouble, he drills a small hole on the side of a 1921-P nickel and embosses a "D" under the words, "FIVE CENTS." Then another fellow comes along and issues an official looking "Certificate of Authenticity" that says that this piece is a "genuine facsimile" that was made by the fellow who manufactured this fantasy coin and puts it in a nice looking holder. Perhaps the Chinese should get in on this with their 1888-CC Morgan dollars and other fantasy coins.

    Do you fellows still think that's cool? I don't. But then I'm old fashioned. I have this thing against counterfeits. Using the excuse that since a certain coin never existed, it's okay to manufacture one that looks like an original government issue doesn't work for me. The excuse that it's not a "counterfeit" because it's a fantasy is false logic. The trouble is if you keep making more of these things, you are going to need to have an encyclopedic memory about which coins were struck where to keep up with them.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MaineJimMaineJim Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank. >>



    This is true. He sure gets a lot of free advertising here.image >>



    Too true. I would never have heard about these without this forum!

    Jim
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    No, he disclosed what you are getting.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thread Title: Should these be reported?

    Sure, take a break from reporting jaywalkers and folks not paying state sales tax on their Amazon purchases.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>
    Too true. I would never have heard about these without this forum!

    Jim >>



    I'd never heard of him before, let alone purchased stuff before I saw him being excoriated here on CU.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,497 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Another tempest in a teapot...Cheers, RickO >>



    Yup and a chance to bash Dan Carr. >>



    Or stir up more business for him - he laughs all the way to the bank. >>



    This is true. He sure gets a lot of free advertising here.image >>



    Comments like this illustrate the method certain politicians use to stifle comments, with which they do not agree, on controversial issues. I find this practice disgusting and disturbing. It's called "political correctness."

    Let's look at this way. Say you would like to have a 1921-D Buffalo nickel to go with your 1921-D Mercury dime, but there is a small problem. The U.S. mint system did not mint any nickels at the Denver mint in 1921. No problem. A fellow makes up a set of dies with the 1921-D combination and uses them to over strike a genuine 1921-P nickel. Or if that seems like too much trouble, he drills a small hole on the side of a 1921-P nickel and embosses a "D" under the words, "FIVE CENTS." Then another fellow comes along and issues an official looking "Certificate of Authenticity" that says that this piece is a "genuine facsimile" that was made by the fellow who manufactured this fantasy coin and puts it in a nice looking holder. Perhaps the Chinese should get in on this with their 1888-CC Morgan dollars and other fantasy coins.

    Do you fellows still think that's cool? I don't. But then I'm old fashioned. I have this thing against counterfeits. Using the excuse that since a certain coin never existed, it's okay to manufacture one that looks like an original government issue doesn't work for me. The excuse that it's not a "counterfeit" because it's a fantasy is false logic. The trouble is if you keep making more of these things, you are going to need to have an encyclopedic memory about which coins were struck where to keep up with them. >>

    Bill, Name 1 example where ONLY a mint mark was either added or modified by Dan Carr?

    To the best of my knowledge he has ONLY addressed the "Year" of a coin or a "Specific" Year/MM combination like the 1910-D Indian Head Cent Overstrike or the 1909-o Morgan Dollar Overstrike.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,652 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sometimes I think Dan needs his own forum category image
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    If RPI claims it's authentic, then that's good enough for me.

    I wonder image what an RPI bean would look like?

    Oh yeah....a palm tree!

    With a Moon!

    image
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,749 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bill, Name 1 example where ONLY a mint mark was either added or modified by Dan Carr? >>



    I don't care for his products which do not have the word "COPY" on them. I don't think that they conform to the Hobby Protection Act which I strongly support.

    You like his stuff, so go buy it. You are not going to change my attitude toward Carr products. I am for consumer protection, and I don't care for copies and reproductions. As a young collector I remember how badly I felt when got stuck with a few counterfeits and copies, and I don't want anyone else to go though that. Losing money from misrepresented copies and feeling bad about being cheated do not enhance one's enjoyment for this wonderful hobby. As long as Carr is allowed to market his stuff, the possibility is out there for it to be misused by a shyster.

    I tried a couple Gallery Mint products which conformed to law and got no satisfaction from owning them. It would not have made a difference if the Gallery Mint pieces had not had "COPY" on them. From a historical perspective they did nothing for me.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Do you understand how Carr makes these overstirkes? He takes a 2009 ASE and OVERSTRIKES it. It certaily WAS. Now it's a fantasy piece.



    << <i>No.

    1.Listed in category: Coins & Paper Money>Exonumia>Fantasy Issue Coins.Coins.grrr.

    2.Purchase includes Coin World excerpt and most important,

    3Disclaimer: This Coin Is Not An Official Mint Product And Is Not Authorized As Legal Tender By The US Mint, Department Of Treasury Or The US Government.

    My only objection to this auction is calling an ASE a coin. A coin it never was nor ever can be,overstamp notwithstanding.

    It is the duty of us members of the Numismatic Illuminati to help stamp out ignorance about coin collecting whenever we see it.
    image >>

    Specialist in Lincoln Cents, Toned Type, and Slab enthusiast.
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no
    LCoopie = Les
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,501 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Bill, Name 1 example where ONLY a mint mark was either added or modified by Dan Carr? >>



    I don't care for his products which do not have the word "COPY" on them. I don't think that they conform to the Hobby Protection Act which I strongly support.

    You like his stuff, so go buy it. You are not going to change my attitude toward Carr products. I am for consumer protection, and I don't care for copies and reproductions. As a young collector I remember how badly I felt when got stuck with a few counterfeits and copies, and I don't want anyone else to go though that. Losing money from misrepresented copies and feeling bad about being cheated do not enhance one's enjoyment for this wonderful hobby. As long as Carr is allowed to market his stuff, the possibility is out there for it to be misused by a shyster.

    I tried a couple Gallery Mint products which conformed to law and got no satisfaction from owning them. It would not have made a difference if the Gallery Mint pieces had not had "COPY" on them. From a historical perspective they did nothing for me. >>


    Weren't Gallery Mint coins copies of actual coins?


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 39,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, I guess the potential for abuse is there later down the road, but there are disclosures in the auction.

    I find it odd that the listing contains the disclaimer:
    Disclaimer: This Coin Is Not An Official Mint Product And Is Not Authorized As Legal Tender By The US Mint, Department Of Treasury Or The US Government

    but he thinks the official Mint box with the word "Proof" on it is a good idea.


    As it is, I guess it is not really reportable, but it'd be great if that box were not offered with it. (PS: this seller has sold others just like this in the past)

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you add an S to a 1909 VDB cent, the cent is not a counterfeit, it is an added mint mark. It is still a cent and can be spent as one.

    If someone is bilked into buying one of DC coins thinking it is real govt issue date/mm/proof etc, without doing any research, they deserve what they get.

    These are still 2009 Silver Eagles, and just as valid as any other 2009 silver eagle. (what ever that means, as they have a 1 dollar denomination, but no one would try to spend one as a dollar)

    Why would you put copy on something that is not a copy of anything?
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • pcunixpcunix Posts: 620


    << <i>If you add an S to a 1909 VDB cent, the cent is not a counterfeit, it is an added mint mark. It is still a cent and can be spent as one.

    If someone is bilked into buying one of DC coins thinking it is real govt issue date/mm/proof etc, without doing any research, they deserve what they get.

    These are still 2009 Silver Eagles, and just as valid as any other 2009 silver eagle. (what ever that means, as they have a 1 dollar denomination, but no one would try to spend one as a dollar)

    Why would you put copy on something that is not a copy of anything? >>



    You are absolutely correct and have made your point very well.

    I do understand why some object to these. There is a possibility that a naive buyer could be fooled.

    Amusingly (or not, depending on your view ), some DC issues have been counterfeited - if that's the right word to use here. Would a copy struck on another legal planchet be a counterfeit? Copies of his other designs would be copyright violations,of course.

    I like Daniel's fantasy coins. I only have four, one of which is the 65 Peace I ordered a few minutes ago.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>[... The trouble is if you keep making more of these things, you are going to need to have an encyclopedic memory about which coins were struck where to keep up with them. >>



    The "Red Book" will help with that.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not encourage that type of packaging. But at least they include the Coin World excerpt.
    I also do no condone their spelling of my name image

    Note that these over-strikes have a large prominent "DC" mint mark on the reverse.
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thread Title: Should these be reported?

    Sure, take a break from reporting jaywalkers and folks not paying state sales tax on their Amazon purchases. >>




    + 1 LOL!!!!
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"

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