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Ebay and the HOF coins - has this ever happened to anyone? MADDENING!
Raufus
Posts: 7,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was most fortunate to get a bunch of the HOF coins in Balto.
We're keeping all of my Son's as they were the first ones sold as many know.
I've been selling many of those which my wife and I purchased to cover the cost of my Son's and to make some extra $ having been so lucky as to get the coins in Balto.
I had all coins graded by PCGS and NGC.
I've been selling coins - many well into the thousand range - on Ebay for 7 years. I have 100+ Pos. FB, 5/5 DSRs (except for shipping 4.9/5), absolutely glowing feedback from my buyers, etc - the model Ebay seller - or so one would think.
I was packing up the last of the ones which I sold yesterday when I see an email from Ebay telling me that my selling status is suspended pending my faxing to them proof of where I got the coins. It also said that all of my listings were taken down and fees credited. Being that I had no active listings none were taken down. So, I faxed over a 12 page fax w/the Mint receipts and copies of all of my PCGS and NGC submission forms.
I was shocked and livid. I've been a perfect ebay seller (and buyer) for years, have sold over $120K in coins, have sold similar amounts in batches before, several times for more money, have made them tons in fees, have never had any problems w/ebay at all ever and this is how I'm treated. The degree to which Ebay takes good sellers for granted and treats them like garbage is just stunning.
Having called several times (and wasted a couple of hours) I still have no idea why I was suspended and others - many of whom have a far shorter track record and none in selling coins - go on undistrubed selling the HOF issues in Balto slabs.
The only hint may have been from my last call. He said "you can prevent this buy providing proof of your source in your listing." I noted that the Mint COA was in the listing - even in the photo. I noted that the slab was from an approved Ebay TPG. He said what about the number on the holder? I said that the numbers from the Balto show may not have been entered into the TPGs computers yet as the staff had to return from the show and the data downloaded, ect. and thus may not show up yet (since confirmed that this is the case).
This may be it - I don't know. He said that they have "experts" who look at this. I would challenge their "experts". The whole thing is just so absurd. You'd think that one's track record would speak for itself. Apparently not. Despite speaking with some ebay reps multiple times, none of them really made sense and clearly none of them know coins.
Anyway, wondering whether this has happened to anyone else. It's maddening.
I also wanted to make you all aware of this. As the Mint releases more issues at shows and the data from the show coins is not entered into the systems until after the shows, those selling these coins may run into this.
I can't tell you all how maddening this is. The people at Ebay are just so clueless. Once again, more ebay hostility towards a long time seller with an 8 year track record of flawless transactions. G-d how I wish that they would have some real competition. I just despise Ebay - but, as they well know, too bad for me they're the giant.
All that I can do is wait the several days until they get around to my fax. I wonder whether the fool who pulled my listing will ever see corrective action if most of the listings which he/she pulls are 100% legit like mine - fat chance I'm sure. That would show evidence of a QI process - G-d forbid Ebay did that.
Edited to add: Had any of my listings been active w/bids of course they would have been cancelled and all credibility w/that buyer shot. I mentioned this to ebay. They could care less.
I also suggested that perhaps in the case of a long time seller with an extensive and flawless track record of selling coins perhaps they could have called me or emailed me first to ask any ? or request any docs instead of just suspending my selling status. He said it was too late to call. I said that I got the email at 10 am. He said that the person who hosed me was in a different time zone. I said they were awake (not that you'd know if from their actions) and working. They could have called. No response.
Love paying for an Ebay store and not being able to use it.
We're keeping all of my Son's as they were the first ones sold as many know.
I've been selling many of those which my wife and I purchased to cover the cost of my Son's and to make some extra $ having been so lucky as to get the coins in Balto.
I had all coins graded by PCGS and NGC.
I've been selling coins - many well into the thousand range - on Ebay for 7 years. I have 100+ Pos. FB, 5/5 DSRs (except for shipping 4.9/5), absolutely glowing feedback from my buyers, etc - the model Ebay seller - or so one would think.
I was packing up the last of the ones which I sold yesterday when I see an email from Ebay telling me that my selling status is suspended pending my faxing to them proof of where I got the coins. It also said that all of my listings were taken down and fees credited. Being that I had no active listings none were taken down. So, I faxed over a 12 page fax w/the Mint receipts and copies of all of my PCGS and NGC submission forms.
I was shocked and livid. I've been a perfect ebay seller (and buyer) for years, have sold over $120K in coins, have sold similar amounts in batches before, several times for more money, have made them tons in fees, have never had any problems w/ebay at all ever and this is how I'm treated. The degree to which Ebay takes good sellers for granted and treats them like garbage is just stunning.
Having called several times (and wasted a couple of hours) I still have no idea why I was suspended and others - many of whom have a far shorter track record and none in selling coins - go on undistrubed selling the HOF issues in Balto slabs.
The only hint may have been from my last call. He said "you can prevent this buy providing proof of your source in your listing." I noted that the Mint COA was in the listing - even in the photo. I noted that the slab was from an approved Ebay TPG. He said what about the number on the holder? I said that the numbers from the Balto show may not have been entered into the TPGs computers yet as the staff had to return from the show and the data downloaded, ect. and thus may not show up yet (since confirmed that this is the case).
This may be it - I don't know. He said that they have "experts" who look at this. I would challenge their "experts". The whole thing is just so absurd. You'd think that one's track record would speak for itself. Apparently not. Despite speaking with some ebay reps multiple times, none of them really made sense and clearly none of them know coins.
Anyway, wondering whether this has happened to anyone else. It's maddening.
I also wanted to make you all aware of this. As the Mint releases more issues at shows and the data from the show coins is not entered into the systems until after the shows, those selling these coins may run into this.
I can't tell you all how maddening this is. The people at Ebay are just so clueless. Once again, more ebay hostility towards a long time seller with an 8 year track record of flawless transactions. G-d how I wish that they would have some real competition. I just despise Ebay - but, as they well know, too bad for me they're the giant.
All that I can do is wait the several days until they get around to my fax. I wonder whether the fool who pulled my listing will ever see corrective action if most of the listings which he/she pulls are 100% legit like mine - fat chance I'm sure. That would show evidence of a QI process - G-d forbid Ebay did that.
Edited to add: Had any of my listings been active w/bids of course they would have been cancelled and all credibility w/that buyer shot. I mentioned this to ebay. They could care less.
I also suggested that perhaps in the case of a long time seller with an extensive and flawless track record of selling coins perhaps they could have called me or emailed me first to ask any ? or request any docs instead of just suspending my selling status. He said it was too late to call. I said that I got the email at 10 am. He said that the person who hosed me was in a different time zone. I said they were awake (not that you'd know if from their actions) and working. They could have called. No response.
Love paying for an Ebay store and not being able to use it.
Land of the Free because of the Brave!
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Comments
<< <i>I was shocked and livid. I've been a perfect ebay seller (and buyer) for years, have sold over $120K in coins, have made them tons in fees, have never had any problems w/ebay at all ever and this is how I'm treated. >>
Most of us regulars feel the same way about Ebay. I now use other venues as well. BST is a good start.
Interesting. I wonder where they think you are getting your Coins? Seems to me they need to prove guilt of something
rather than you having to prove innocence.
I last sold something on ebay probably 13 years ago. Have no idea how they are now but this has me worried.
I used ebay a couple of times years ago however I never will again. I will not buy or sell on ebay. I know many of you have had
many transactions with little or no problems, however the odds are too great on Ebay that something stupid will cause you major
headaches. Since I don't have to count on them to run a business I have had no problems buying or selling what I want or need
without using Ebay.
<< <i>Interesting. I wonder where they think you are getting your Coins? Seems to me they need to prove guilt of something
rather than you having to prove innocence.
I last sold something on ebay probably 13 years ago. Have no idea how they are now but this has me worried. >>
Ebay got burned a few years ago with the precious metals run ups. Lots of non deliveries. Like everything else, the scum ruin it for the honest guys.
After ten flawless years as a seller, I tried to get my Paypal limit raised for receiving payments. No dice. It is the same as it was in 2002.
I still maintain a presence on Ebay , but a fraction of what it was.
<< <i>It's their website. They can do what they want. If you don't like it ,sell somewhere else. Just that simpl. >>
Thanks for such an insightful post.
I've long made every effort to sell on BST, direct to MCM, APMEX, etc. Some items do best of Ebay.
My point was to find out whether this has happened to anyone else, to warn others what may happen when selling coins from Mint show releases when the slab numbers may not yet be in the TPG's systems (if that's even the issue here, still don't know), and to vent. I never said that Ebay could not do as they please. I happily take my business elsewhere whenever I can. In fact, I'll usually give up a few bucks just to avoid them.
They asked me to provide proof that my "bullion" products were stored properly, wanted receipts, pictures, bank records and such when I listed a bunch of stuff. I basically told them to go to heck and that wasnt any of their darn business. They stated that the bullion sales were their most contested and they were ensuring the buyers were protected. What a bunch of crap.
Good luck dealing with those idiots, no common sense at all
<< <i>To answer the question Yes, they pulled that on me several years ago. They asked for all sorts of things License, receipts, purchases invoices etc. >>
How long did it take from when you gave them the info to be back online?
Thanks!
<< <i>If you would have posted them in coins instead of the bullion catagory, this wouldn't be a problem. And your buyers would get eBay bucks
They asked me to provide proof that my "bullion" products were stored properly, wanted receipts, pictures, bank records and such when I listed a bunch of stuff. I basically told them to go to heck and that wasnt any of their darn business. They stated that the bullion sales were their most contested and they were ensuring the buyers were protected. What a bunch of crap.
Good luck dealing with those idiots, no common sense at all >>
Thanks, but I did just that: I posted them in coins- us-commem-modern-95 - now
Truly a bunch of non-thinking fools. Incredible to hear it in person when you talk to them.
<< <i>
<< <i>To answer the question Yes, they pulled that on me several years ago. They asked for all sorts of things License, receipts, purchases invoices etc. >>
How long did it take from when you gave them the info to be back online?
Thanks! >>
IIRC, less than a week. This was back in 2008 I believe.
I'm moving my business off eBay and if suggest you do the same if you want to keep your sanity.
So I came here just to
join the sing along
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
LINK
<< <i>See this thread for my last go round with the drones. They very well may answer the phone real quick but beyond that is anyone's guess. I got an apology in the end...
LINK >>
Who do they hire? How can such fool stay employed?
<< <i>Yeah it happened to me on the box of 5 buillon of the first 5 oz ATB's, that you had to purchase from Mint distributors. Ebay said someone must have reported me (probably to knock me out as their competition). I was so frustrated as I had quite a few sets, that I finally got some muck a muck in San Jose Ebay HQ involved. If not for that guy I'd probably still be sitting on them. So my advice is get a HQ phone number and work your way up as high as you can. Because these guys are so isolated it took a lot of work, but it can be done. In fact if you get a name, many times you can get that officers home phone number on the internet. I wouldn't call his home, but it shows the info is out there. >>
Thanks.
Submitted all the docs. Will give it a few days will then try to work my way up. Such a waste of time. So foolish. You'd think that if one of the fools keeps pulling listings that turn out to be legit they'd get rid of him/her.
How did you get to someone in HQ?
<< <i>
How did you get to someone in HQ? >>
I looked up Ebays list of officers (public info). Then searched under keyword "complaints", with name of officer or just Ebay, I don't remember. Found online copies of letters of other disgruntled sellers, that wrote to these officers and included officers name, home address, work and home phone numbers.
<< <i>
<< <i>
How did you get to someone in HQ? >>
I looked up Ebays list of officers (public info). Then searched under keyword "complaints", with name of officer or just Ebay, I don't remember. Found online copies of letters of other disgruntled sellers, that wrote to these officers and included officers name, home address, work and home phone numbers. >>
Fantastic!
I have had 100% feedback on ebay for 10 years with no hassles. Often selling unopened boxes of mint products. If anything on ebay needed documentation, you would think it would selling those unopened mint boxes. They never suspended my account. Who knows why they do what they do?
They will reinstate you eventually, clearly you did nothing wrong. Good luck.
Box of 20
Box of 20
<< <i>The problem you are having is perception. You were lucky enough to get several sets. Ebay sees you selling the same item several times, collecting payment, never shipping, withdrawing the money from Paypal, canceling the credit card on file and leaving them on the hook for refunds to buyers. Their computers are looking for this type of scam and they automatically shut it down and then ask for you to prove you are not a thief. They probably have been burned before and are not worried about "one" seller. Just my thoughts. >>
Thanks, but not the case. By the time that they hosed me, I had sold 21 items. All but the prior day's sales had tracking numbers - and I don't must mean uploaded numbers which had not shipped yet, I mean already shipped tracking numbers - and a couple already had received their coins and left glowing, positive fb.
On top of this, I have a history since 2007 of selling such coins on ebay with over $100K sold and no problems ever.
If I had just popped up an started selling I could understand. In fact, there is a seller who has sold an NGC $5 Gold HOF set for huge money, has only been on a few months, has 60 or so feedback, mostly for cheap items and he goes on listing. I don't mean to imply that he has done anything wrong, his stuff looks 100% legit. I only note this to point out how the whole thing makes no sense.
<< <i>Silly question: Was the Mint giving out cash register receipts in Baltimore, and if so do you have one? >>
Yes, I have them all and faxed copies in along with copies of my PCGS and NGC submission forms.
I certainly understand that from a sellers point of view it would be frustrating to get treated in this manner after generating thousands of dollars in EBAY & Paypal fees for them over the years and maintaining a spotless feedback record. But as you mentioned...it could have been a whole lot worse. You could have had a bunch of auctions pending when they did this. That would have really stung.
As it is, it sounds like your still going to come out way ahead, just with a newly found disrespect for your selling partner EBAY.
Hope it all gets cleared up without costing you anything more than your time.
I've never found EBAY remotely helpful in resolving my most serious problems. Once they cancelled and refunded a buyers payment on a $3000+ coin AFTER I had shipped the coin and AFTER it had been received by the buyer. The buyer was a dealer, and his employee had mistakenly entered the wrong auction number to cancel on a return. EBAY didn't contact by phone or email either me or the buyer. They just cancelled the deal and refunded the buyer his Paypal payment. So I was without the coin or the payment. Fortunately, the buyer was an ethical person who actually sent me a check so we didn't have to deal with Paypal again. I didn't feel bad about EBAY not getting their final value fee on that deal. The lesson I learned was never to sell a coin on EBAY that you can't afford to flat out lose, because if there is a problem EBAY isn't going to be much help to the seller.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>Reminds me of the old adage that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Even when fortune seems to be smiling on you in spades, life's little complications crop up to make cashing in a bit more difficult than expected.
I certainly understand that from a sellers point of view it would be frustrating to get treated in this manner after generating thousands of dollars in EBAY & Paypal fees for them over the years and maintaining a spotless feedback record. But as you mentioned...it could have been a whole lot worse. You could have had a bunch of auctions pending when they did this. That would have really stung.
As it is, it sounds like your still going to come out way ahead, just with a newly found disrespect for your selling partner EBAY.
Hope it all gets cleared up without costing you anything more than your time.
I've never found EBAY remotely helpful in resolving my most serious problems. Once they cancelled and refunded a buyers payment on a $3000+ coin AFTER I had shipped the coin and AFTER it had been received by the buyer. The buyer was a dealer, and his employee had mistakenly entered the wrong auction number to cancel on a return. EBAY didn't contact by phone or email either me or the buyer. They just cancelled the deal and refunded the buyer his Paypal payment. So I was without the coin or the payment. Fortunately, the buyer was an ethical person who actually sent me a check so we didn't have to deal with Paypal again. I didn't feel bad about EBAY not getting their final value fee on that deal. The lesson I learned was never to sell a coin on EBAY that you can't afford to flat out lose, because if there is a problem EBAY isn't going to be much help to the seller. >>
I hear you and fish.
I had actually finished selling all that I intended to sell, at least initially.
Looking at the insane prices of the PGCS $5 70s I was thinking of selling my set as well.
Anyway, not really free lunch: I pay for my ebay store, ebay and PP fees. The free lunch is Ebay getting my store fees and not letting me sell.
I agree 100++++% re: buyer bias on Ebay. Ebay literally makes outright stealing a sure thing. Buyer claims empty box. out of luck. I'm still amazed that this has never happened to me. As mentioned, I've tried for several years now to stick to BST, MCM and APMEX for selling. For the HOFs ebay is the way to go now esp. with the Savebig FVF promotion, etc. That assumes that one can sell of course....
<< <i>
<< <i>Silly question: Was the Mint giving out cash register receipts in Baltimore, and if so do you have one? >>
Yes, I have them all and faxed copies in along with copies of my PCGS and NGC submission forms. >>
Thanks. Did they react to that at all?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silly question: Was the Mint giving out cash register receipts in Baltimore, and if so do you have one? >>
Yes, I have them all and faxed copies in along with copies of my PCGS and NGC submission forms. >>
Thanks. Did they react to that at all? >>
No reply at all yet.
On the phone like talking to a mindless drone - all of them. These people are so dense, so utterly incapable of rational thought or reasoning that its difficult to believe that they are employed.
No one item here.
Already had pos fb for several of the coins when they hosed me.
EBay is really there every step of the way to make it difficult for sellers.
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<< <i> I hope that Ebay lets the person who suspended my know how absurd that this was so that similar honest sellers are spared the PIA. >>
Sure.
They are also limiting the total dollar amount of listings that can be created for newer and low volume sellers. This works better because it affects trying to post a new listing and does not interfere with current listings. I know one seller who has a monthly "listing" limit in dollar terms. Ebay's system of limiting sales would work best for all concerned if it always kicked in at the time of creating a listing instead of after a listing is published.
Questions about your OP - did you provide the cert numbers in the listing? And, did you violate their more than one identical listing policy. If so, the competition reported you for the violation and got ebay to looking at your account as a possible shyster. If you are selling more than one like graded coin, ebay considers them identical even though they have different certs. Best to use one listing, "more than one available" and an individual picture of the front of each slab. In the cert. number box put "see pictures."
Any time you are getting nowhere with ebay on the phone, ask to speak to a supervisor. Keep in mind that ebay sees all sellers as potentially dishonest, regardless of past seller history.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Try great collections >>
As a buyer I prefer seeing the juice come out of the auction price, not added to it.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>sudden surge in sales dollars draws a "potential fraud" alert. Went through the same thing a few years back. If you are going to increase selling on ebay best to do it slowly. Also helps to use the "wife's account" to break up a lot of sales.
They are also limiting the total dollar amount of listings that can be created for newer and low volume sellers. This works better because it affects trying to post a new listing and does not interfere with current listings. I know one seller who has a monthly "listing" limit in dollar terms. Ebay's system of limiting sales would work best for all concerned if it always kicked in at the time of creating a listing instead of after a listing is published.
Questions about your OP - did you provide the cert numbers in the listing? And, did you violate their more than one identical listing policy. If so, the competition reported you for the violation and got ebay to looking at your account as a possible shyster. If you are selling more than one like graded coin, ebay considers them identical even though they have different certs. Best to use one listing, "more than one available" and an individual picture of the front of each slab. In the cert. number box put "see pictures."
Any time you are getting nowhere with ebay on the phone, ask to speak to a supervisor. Keep in mind that ebay sees all sellers as potentially dishonest, regardless of past seller history. >>
I had indeed stopped selling higher value coins on Ebay for a while as the fees were so high and their policies are so anti-seller. I much prefer selling to MCM, APMEX, BST, etc. With the HOF coins I knew that I'd get more on ebay and their "savebig" promo capping FVFs at $100 combined with the 6% FVF for a store made it a good option.
Still, I've been selling several thousand dollar coins on Ebay since 2007 with over $120K in sales and no problems. I've laid low then sold a lot and laid low numerous times before w/no probs.
I only use my account because it reflects a long history of selling coins with great FB and this is what I want potential buyers to see.
As with all of my listings, the cert numbers were crystal clear.
I did have several listing for similar coins up at once - i.e, two auctions for HOF proof 70s, two for MS70, same for clads.
In all of my calls not a single rep could actually tell me why I was suspended - this was amazing. I specifically asked whether someone had reported a listing and was told no each time. I said would you tell me if that were the case and they said yes. I have to day that doing so to someone that you know is legit is just B.S. beyond the pale, not that that matters to someone who would stoop so low.
I had never herd of this multiple listing policy. New info to me. For BINs I use one listing with X available. For auctions there can only be one item per listing so I have several auctions for the same item (different certs of course) up at the same time. I've seen this with countless coin sellers. Is this a violation? Makes no sense at all (not that ebay policies have to make sense.)
The email which I received letting me know that the restriction was lifted did not menation why it was pulled in the first place (nor did the one telling me about the restriction).
What an absurd way for Ebay to do business.
I will do as you suggest re: the cert number in the future.
The whole thing is just so utterly nonsensical.
This ebay policy - again first I've heard of it - makes no sense at all. What is someone supposed to do if he/she wants to put up multiple auctions - and I mean auctions, not BINs - for the similar items: i.e., two auctions for an HOF PR70DCAM?
Thanks for the info!!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Try great collections >>
Depending on the item this blanket recommendation could result in a loss.
<< <i>
<< <i>Try great collections >>
Depending on the item this blanket recommendation could result in a loss. >>
How so? You could do a Buy Now listing. No chance of losing.
Edit:
btw there are 18 or so and all varieties of HOF coins currently listed there.
Looks like they all started at $1.
Be interesting to see how the do.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
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