<< <i>the real question is ... will an ngc graded coin that is cac'd *and* pq'd cross at the same grade? ;-) >>
Not usually. At least not in gem MS seated coinage. You have to crack the coin out and start from scratch if you want to get all the money for the coin in shooting for same grade at PCGS.
<< <i>This one starting to look like a kids school notebook >>
CAC already rejects approx 85-95% of the MS65/66 Saints it sees. Don't really see the need to try and increase that rejection rate. And I thought the alphabet soup - ancronymania in coins couldn't get any more confusing.
PQing an already CAC'd saint is not much of a stretch. How about that PCGS MS66+ Saint from a few weeks ago that sparked this initial uproar? As I recall, I didn't think that coin would sticker. And logically, if it could, you'd have to be nuts to toss away $500-$1000 by not spending the $25 to make an attempt. >>
It cost me nothing (as an Advanced Collector) if JA (CAC) does not approve a coin I send in…hopefully PQ honors the collector the same way as JA does
A lot of dealers have great archives on their websites with great photos and PCGS / NGC cert numbers. I think it would be great to have a website that let you look up coin dealer and photo for archival (and current sale) coins.
<< <i>Come on, Joe Shmoe gets some nice coins too sometimes! >>
He does! But he typically doesn't have a nice archive of past coins with great photos.
Beyond eye candy, as we move into a counterfeit slab filled world, it becomes more important to track down all past photos of a coin to identify potential counterfeits.
Wasn't there just a thread knocking this guy for his sticker but now that he has an actual company I guess it's all right now. Haha
It's an eye roller to me that someone thinks there is a real need for this. I've always been in support of an expert in a single series making there opinion noted on the holder like Rick Snow does. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Mr barber, bustie, Morgan, Lincoln copy the idea. Maybe it is to come as there is most definitely room on a slab for more stickers!
It's amazing to me that coins are loved to the point that one would navigate the market minefields at all. If stickers are a roadmap through that then I guess they are here to stay, coins don't seem to pull the big bucks without them now.
Their website says they build award winning collections:
<< <i>We also specialize in assisting our clients build well-known and award winning collections. Whether you are a beginning coin investor or an experienced connoisseur we at Mint State Gold presented by Stuppler and Company are committed to offering the finest service possible. >>
I wonder how many #1 or Top 10 collections they've helped build?
The ultimate sticker would be about 40 mm in diameter, tamper-resistant, with an elegant holographic TM ... for Trust Me!
It could be centered on top of the coin as to not get in the way of the label. Who cares if you can't actually see the coin any more ... it's got a TM sticker ... so you know it's really there!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
A lot of dealers have great archives on their websites with great photos and PCGS / NGC cert numbers. I think it would be great to have a website that let you look up coin dealer and photo for archival (and current sale) coins. >>
to do something like that. Allow people to upload their coins....and it becomes a tracking site...ie..coin one went from here to here to here...etc......
Reality is...every coin has a pedigree.
(site is in beta...and please ignore the graphics....)
The PQ sticker says "SCI" for Stuppler & Co., Inc. so should this sticker be called the SCI PQ sticker to avoid confusion with previous PQ stickers such as the one from The Penny Lady - TPL PQ?
<< <i>Can a coin be Eagle Eye'd, CAC'd and PQ'd? Maybe throw in a + and a Star for good measure? >>
Now we're talkin'. The first NGC IHC that is a +, *, with an Eagle Eye, a CAC bean and a PQ sticker (ball?) should bring Moon Money! Can't wait to see it!
The harsh reality here is that PQ approved coins by Stuppler don't command a premium with knowledgable collectors or dealers, at least not now. CAC coins can fetch a huge premium, especially in high grade. Mint State Gold sells coins on a website and the PQ sticker is a vehicle to sell coins to the novice and less informed individual. I am not saying they can't survive or even gain some market acceptance, but they are essentially competing against CAC, and thats a real challenge.
<< <i>The harsh reality here is that PQ approved coins by Stuppler don't command a premium with knowledgable collectors or dealers, at least not now. CAC coins can fetch a huge premium, especially in high grade. Mint State Gold sells coins on a website and the PQ sticker is a vehicle to sell coins to the novice and less informed individual. I am not saying they can't survive or even gain some market acceptance, but they are essentially competing against CAC, and thats a real challenge. >>
I sure wish I had access to your crystal ball. Do you ever let other people use it?
I'm glad men who are prominent in their field are stepping up to the plate to back their wares. I predict NGC and PCGS will come up with a teflon holder, where nothing sticks. if this keeps up.
<< <i>Can a coin be Eagle Eye'd, CAC'd and PQ'd? Maybe throw in a + and a Star for good measure? >>
Now we're talkin'. The first NGC IHC that is a +, *, with an Eagle Eye, a CAC bean and a PQ sticker (ball?) should bring Moon Money! Can't wait to see it! >>
Perhaps there should be a brown eye for the POS coins?
<< <i>I wonder if Mr. S was at all motivated by the past mega hot topic thread about his sticker ... which someone noted predates the CAC bean, too. >>
Accugrade slabs pre-dated PCGS by at least 6-8 years. Being first doesn't make you the best or even viable. I'm sure someone was placing PQ stickers on coins well before Stuppler. And fwiw Numismatic Professionals Incorporated (1981-1986 Jay Miller and Chris Tracey) were actively grading coins with adjectives of "ABC" for strike, luster, and overall appeal...or something close to that. You'd see a 1904-0 Barber quarter graded something like MS65 BAB. As a rule, they didn't buy coins that ended up with C's in the break down. In essence, the first PQ designation system that I was aware of. Mr S. wasn't first, not even close. I bought a number of coins through NPI over the years, and there wasn't a single loser among them.....only winners. I only wish I had had more money to buy everything they offered to me.
<< <i>I wonder if Mr. S was at all motivated by the past mega hot topic thread about his sticker ... which someone noted predates the CAC bean, too. >>
Accugrade slabs pre-dated PCGS by at least 6-8 years. Being first doesn't make you the best or even viable. I'm sure someone was placing PQ stickers on coins well before Stuppler. And fwiw Numismatic Professionals Incorporated (1981-1986 Jay Miller and Chris Tracey) were actively grading coins with adjectives of ABC for strike, luster, and overall appeal...or something close to that. You'd see a 1904-0 Barber quarter graded something like MS65 BAB. As a rule, they didn't buy coins that ended up with C's in the break down. In essence, the first PQ designation system that I was aware of. Mr S. wasn't first, not even close. >>
I don't think the Accugrade photoslabs were that far ahead of PCGS. I think the first Accugrade slabs appeared in 1984 and PCGS came out in 1986, IIRC.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I stand corrected. Condor 101 agrees with that 1984 date. Still, they preceded PCGS.
ANACS started up in January 1980......pre-dating PCGS and NPI they also offered individual ratings for luster, strike, and eye appeal as well as a grade for each side of the coin.
Comments
<< <i>I think it's ridiculous.
There's going to be so many of these 'sticker' companies in the future that the coin will be totally covered up.
It's also a big conflict of interest when a company that is supposed to 'grade' also 'sells'. >>
that is a good point...,
Does CAC have graders who decide if a coin gets stickered or not and run their own
seperate retail coin companies?
If so who are they?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>the real question is ... will an ngc graded coin that is cac'd *and* pq'd cross at the same grade? ;-) >>
Not usually. At least not in gem MS seated coinage. You have to crack the coin out and start from scratch if you want to get all the money for the coin in shooting for same grade at PCGS.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>
<< <i>This one starting to look like a kids school notebook
CAC already rejects approx 85-95% of the MS65/66 Saints it sees. Don't really see the need to try and increase that rejection rate. And I thought the alphabet soup - ancronymania in coins couldn't get any more confusing.
PQing an already CAC'd saint is not much of a stretch. How about that PCGS MS66+ Saint from a few weeks ago that sparked this initial uproar? As I recall, I didn't think that coin would sticker. And logically, if it could, you'd
have to be nuts to toss away $500-$1000 by not spending the $25 to make an attempt. >>
It cost me nothing (as an Advanced Collector) if JA (CAC) does not approve a coin I send in…hopefully PQ honors the collector the same way as JA does
Erik
http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=15066249
<< <i>I wonder if eventually people won't be able to list a coin as PQ unless it has the sticker
Sure they can.
Just call it P dot Q dot (P.Q.), Pee Cue, or Pee Q.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>I personally think it would be useful to know if a coin was handled by a well known dealer in the past, e.g. CRO, Legend, DWN, etc. >>
Your kidding right......
What if a coin was handled by Joe Shmoe?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>I personally think it would be useful to know if a coin was handled by a well known dealer in the past, e.g. CRO, Legend, DWN, etc. >>
Your kidding right......
What if a coin was handled by Joe Shmoe? >>
Is Joe Shmoe well known? It would be like Pedigrees - some matter more than others.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I personally think it would be useful to know if a coin was handled by a well known dealer in the past, e.g. CRO, Legend, DWN, etc. >>
Your kidding right......
What if a coin was handled by Joe Shmoe? >>
Is Joe Shmoe well known? It would be like Pedigrees - some matter more than others. >>
…he certainly is in the sports gambling world…we call him Joe Public
Erik
A lot of dealers have great archives on their websites with great photos and PCGS / NGC cert numbers. I think it would be great to have a website that let you look up coin dealer and photo for archival (and current sale) coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I personally think it would be useful to know if a coin was handled by a well known dealer in the past, e.g. CRO, Legend, DWN, etc. >>
Your kidding right......
What if a coin was handled by Joe Shmoe? >>
Is Joe Shmoe well known? It would be like Pedigrees - some matter more than others. >>
Come on, Joe Shmoe gets some nice coins too sometimes!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Come on, Joe Shmoe gets some nice coins too sometimes! >>
He does! But he typically doesn't have a nice archive of past coins with great photos.
Beyond eye candy, as we move into a counterfeit slab filled world, it becomes more important to track down all past photos of a coin to identify potential counterfeits.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It will be interesting to see if the collector market has really dumbed down even further willing to embrace another sticker
It's an eye roller to me that someone thinks there is a real need for this. I've always been in support of an expert in a single series making there opinion noted on the holder like Rick Snow does. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Mr barber, bustie, Morgan, Lincoln copy the idea. Maybe it is to come as there is most definitely room on a slab for more stickers!
It's amazing to me that coins are loved to the point that one would navigate the market minefields at all. If stickers are a roadmap through that then I guess they are here to stay, coins don't seem to pull the big bucks without them now.
<< <i>I personally think it would be useful to know if a coin was handled by a well known dealer in the past, e.g. CRO, Legend, DWN, etc. >>
That would help determine if some coins were fresh or not (ie off the market for at least 5 years....and preferably > 10 yrs).
Next step would be a FRIC & FRAC label (Freshness Reliability Indication Corporation and Freshness Rating Approval Corp.).
Why not follow NASCAR down the advertisement route? You can hardly see the cars but for the stickers and decals.
Appears to be a heavy bullion dealer.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>We also specialize in assisting our clients build well-known and award winning collections. Whether you are a beginning coin investor or an experienced connoisseur we at Mint State Gold presented by Stuppler and Company are committed to offering the finest service possible. >>
I wonder how many #1 or Top 10 collections they've helped build?
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
Sorry, you're way off base. That will never fly.
You can still see the coin.
It could be centered on top of the coin as to not get in the way of the label. Who cares if you can't actually see the coin any more ... it's got a TM sticker ... so you know it's really there!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
LGTM is my favorite.
<< <i>Think about this:
A lot of dealers have great archives on their websites with great photos and PCGS / NGC cert numbers. I think it would be great to have a website that let you look up coin dealer and photo for archival (and current sale) coins. >>
I started a project here
www.CoinPedigree.com
to do something like that. Allow people to upload their coins....and it becomes a tracking site...ie..coin one went from here to here to here...etc......
Reality is...every coin has a pedigree.
(site is in beta...and please ignore the graphics....)
Beau
CertifiedMorgans.com
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
Crikey... looks like Nascar :-)
<< <i>Can a coin be Eagle Eye'd, CAC'd and PQ'd? Maybe throw in a + and a Star for good measure? >>
Now we're talkin'. The first NGC IHC that is a +, *, with an Eagle Eye, a CAC bean and a PQ sticker (ball?) should bring Moon Money! Can't wait to see it!
<< <i>
<< <i>This one starting to look like a kids school notebook
Where would the sticker go if this was a SP slab? >>
I want to see one with PQ, CAC and a Photo Seal
Good luck in your venture PQ Approved by Stuppler.
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>The harsh reality here is that PQ approved coins by Stuppler don't command a premium with knowledgable collectors or dealers, at least not now. CAC coins can fetch a huge premium, especially in high grade. Mint State Gold sells coins on a website and the PQ sticker is a vehicle to sell coins to the novice and less informed individual. I am not saying they can't survive or even gain some market acceptance, but they are essentially competing against CAC, and thats a real challenge. >>
I sure wish I had access to your crystal ball. Do you ever let other people use it?
I predict NGC and PCGS will come up with a teflon holder, where nothing sticks.
Or NASCAR will enter the race.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Can a coin be Eagle Eye'd, CAC'd and PQ'd? Maybe throw in a + and a Star for good measure? >>
Now we're talkin'. The first NGC IHC that is a +, *, with an Eagle Eye, a CAC bean and a PQ sticker (ball?) should bring Moon Money! Can't wait to see it!
Perhaps there should be a brown eye for the POS coins?
<< <i>
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
Crikey... looks like Nascar :-) >>
If anyone has a bright idea, they best get on it before all of the space on the holder is used up
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
Crikey... looks like Nascar :-) >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
Crikey... looks like Nascar :-) >>
or NASCOIN!
<< <i>
<< <i>Some day soon, a coin with all the bells and whistles.......
Approved by the following fine companies:
PGIP (Properly Graded, I Promise)
IDU (It's Definitely Undergraded)
LGTM (Looks Good To Me)
YCL (You Can't Lose). >>
LGTM is my favorite.
it's the best. i love the logo too. plus i can just picture the guy stickering it. looks good to me!
<< <i>I wonder if Mr. S was at all motivated by the past mega hot topic thread about his sticker ... which someone noted predates the CAC bean, too. >>
Accugrade slabs pre-dated PCGS by at least 6-8 years. Being first doesn't make you the best or even viable. I'm sure someone was placing PQ stickers on coins well before Stuppler. And fwiw
Numismatic Professionals Incorporated (1981-1986 Jay Miller and Chris Tracey) were actively grading coins with adjectives of "ABC" for strike, luster, and overall appeal...or something close to that. You'd see
a 1904-0 Barber quarter graded something like MS65 BAB. As a rule, they didn't buy coins that ended up with C's in the break down. In essence, the first PQ designation system that I was aware of.
Mr S. wasn't first, not even close. I bought a number of coins through NPI over the years, and there wasn't a single loser among them.....only winners. I only wish I had had more money to buy everything they
offered to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if Mr. S was at all motivated by the past mega hot topic thread about his sticker ... which someone noted predates the CAC bean, too. >>
Accugrade slabs pre-dated PCGS by at least 6-8 years. Being first doesn't make you the best or even viable. I'm sure someone was placing PQ stickers on coins well before Stuppler. And fwiw
Numismatic Professionals Incorporated (1981-1986 Jay Miller and Chris Tracey) were actively grading coins with adjectives of ABC for strike, luster, and overall appeal...or something close to that. You'd see
a 1904-0 Barber quarter graded something like MS65 BAB. As a rule, they didn't buy coins that ended up with C's in the break down. In essence, the first PQ designation system that I was aware of.
Mr S. wasn't first, not even close. >>
I don't think the Accugrade photoslabs were that far ahead of PCGS. I think the first Accugrade slabs appeared in 1984 and PCGS came out in 1986, IIRC.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
ANACS started up in January 1980......pre-dating PCGS and NPI they also offered individual ratings for luster, strike, and eye appeal as well as a grade for each side of the coin.
stickering those coinage.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.