1965 half
aidenisay
Posts: 58
sorry no pics
I was given a 1965 half, it was in an ICG slab graded MS64. I inspected it and felt it needs to be in at least a PCGS MS65 slab. I have a friend who constantly submits coins to PCGS. Everyone I know that knows him values his opinion. He agrees with me but goes further to say MS66 and a good chance at MS67 AND he goes on to say it appears PL. He nor I could find a reference to a 1965 PL half. I'm bringilngit with me to FUN `14 to have it submitted. What do I ask the attribution be?
I was given a 1965 half, it was in an ICG slab graded MS64. I inspected it and felt it needs to be in at least a PCGS MS65 slab. I have a friend who constantly submits coins to PCGS. Everyone I know that knows him values his opinion. He agrees with me but goes further to say MS66 and a good chance at MS67 AND he goes on to say it appears PL. He nor I could find a reference to a 1965 PL half. I'm bringilngit with me to FUN `14 to have it submitted. What do I ask the attribution be?
0
Comments
peacockcoins
Regular strikes are much more expensive in higher grade, but seldom prooflike. Compare the prices of the regular issues (near top of the page
on this link and the SMS
issues near the bottom
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>My first thought is that it is an SMS. My second thought is that if you cross it to PCGS you will lose money on the transaction. >>
its raw now
<< <i>If prooflike and exceptionally nice probably issued in a Special Mint Set struck in San Francisco without a mintmark. Grading companies are irregular about designating these as SMS
Regular strikes are much more expensive in higher grade, but seldom prooflike. Compare the prices of the regular issues (near top of the page
on this link and the SMS
issues near the bottom >>
i see what you're saying. i dont know if it's sms or not. will pcgs asume?
I have learned that the opinion of the forum membership is quite reliable and valuable. without knowing your friend or seeing the coin I suggest you at least hold off on submitting coins for a while since your post leads me to believe that you are a novice collector. perhaps you should spend some time learning more about coins and coin grading.
<< <i>I have a friend who constantly submits coins to PCGS. Everyone I know that knows him values his opinion.
I have learned that the opinion of the forum membership is quite reliable and valuable. without knowing your friend or seeing the coin I suggest you at least hold off on submitting coins for a while since your post leads me to believe that you are a novice collector. perhaps you should spend some time learning more about coins and coin grading. >>
you're so wise. why is there always at least one id**t in the bunch?
<< <i>My first thought is that it is an SMS. My second thought is that if you cross it to PCGS you will lose money on the transaction. >>
This.
I understand the coin is currently raw, and if it has proof-like characteristics the natural thought is that it is likely an SMS coin. PCGS will know if it's a business strike or SMS coin and categorize it appropriately.
That being said...Keets is a long time board member who is well versed in modern coinage such as the 1965 Kennedy's...you'd do well to look beyond his sometimes abrasive presentation and heed the advice he gives (it has served me well).
Edit to add: here's a picture of a 1965 Kennedy SMS recently graded SP66 CAM by PCGS.
<< <i>you're so wise. why is there always at least one id**t in the bunch? >>
Now that was uncalled for.....
A seasoned and well educated collector will also be able to tell.
Regards, Larry
As Bossman said...PCGS knows the identifiers for each type of strike...their opinion will be much more than just a guess.
Obviously, you're the only one in this thread that has seen the coin; but the chances that it'll upgrade from an ICG MS64 is very low. Not impossible, but your odds aren't real good despite what your buddy may be leading you to think. If he's not very experienced in submitting modern/SMS coins...he's likely to be off. I've submitted literally hundreds of coins in the 1950-70 period to PCGS over the last 3 years...and my last modern submission of primarily SMS coins kicked my butt...it's a collecting area in which it's very easy to burn a lot of cash on grading fees with very little to show for it in terms of added value to your coins if you don't know what you're doing (or even if you think you do).
<< <i>Crewman, if i submited an entire open 1970 proof set, 'proof set will not be on the designation. how can sms or bs be kmown by pcgs? >>
This post confirms that keets was right. Believe me, you'll save a lot of money by asking questions here on the forum before sending anything in to PCGS.
-Paul
<< <i>PCGS graders have seen thousands of MS and SMS Kennedy half and can readily tell which is which.
A seasoned and well educated collector will also be able to tell.
Regards, Larry >>
If only that were true Larry.
The reality is that if a half dollar from 65-67 grades as a 66 or higher, it automatically gets the SMS designation.
I had a 1966 that I bought in a slab which was designated MS66 SMS. Since it had some interesting doubling, I sent it to James Wiles for attribution. As it turns out, this particular die doubling was only found on business strikes so the letter and coin were sent back for proper grading as a business strike.
I have sent in business strikes, pulled from rolls, that ended up in SMS holders because even the most experienced graders cannot tell the difference between BS and SMS.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>...even the most experienced graders cannot tell the difference between BS and SMS. >>
Absolutely. ESPECIALLY the 1965's.
that I pulled from an OBW roll, and I will not waste my time or money, because I know what the "EXPERTS" are gonna say!!@!
Steve
This being true I would venture a guess our hosts get it right over 95% of the time.
The TPGs have made mistakes with mis-identifying these SMS and BS issues, however when the proper experts voice their opinions the labels are corrected are they not?
When sending in any coin for a TPG opinion it is always best to learn as much as you can about the series before submission to help avoid costly educational fee's
Regards, Larry
<< <i>I would add, even the most experienced graders cannot tell the difference between BS and SMS every time, all the time.
This being true I would venture a guess our hosts get it right over 95% of the time.
The TPGs have made mistakes with mis-identifying these SMS and BS issues, however when the proper experts voice their opinions the labels are corrected are they not?
When sending in any coin for a TPG opinion it is always best to learn as much as you can about the series before submission to help avoid costly educational fee's
>>
When they say something is MS they get it right virtually 100% of the time (except for "mechanical errors").
When they say it is SMS they get it right about 98% of the time. This would be higher except for the pesky fact that collectors scour rolls and dealer stock and send in only the nicest examples.
Keets' advice is always sound even when I disagree with it.
<< <i>if i was to dig out my dino and get crip clear images could you guys tell me if its bs or sms? >>
Apologize first, and then perhaps.
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>if i was to dig out my dino and get crip clear images could you guys tell me if its bs or sms? >>
Apologize first, and then perhaps. >>
Lol.
We probably could but might not say.
It's better wirth the a couple pictures with the light from different angles.
<< <i>if i was to dig out my dino and get crip clear images could you guys tell me if its bs or sms? >>
Not likely, for 2 reasons.
1) It's not possible to predict what PCGS will do on these.
2) People aren't going to want to help you when you name-call someone who was obviously just trying to help you out. That was actually one of Keets' nicer posts!
<< <i>
<< <i>That was actually one of Keets' nicer posts! >>
hehe, thats actually true!!.........and I agree with Braddick
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>if i was to dig out my dino and get crip clear images could you guys tell me if its bs or sms? >>
Not likely, for 2 reasons.
1) It's not possible to predict what PCGS will do on these.
2) People aren't going to want to help you when you name-call someone who was obviously just trying to help you out. That was actually one of Keets' nicer posts! >>
Bossman says, ''A seasoned and well educated collector will also be able to tell.''
modcrewman also says, ''Proof is a method of manufacture, as is the SMS. The dies are prepared in a specific manner and the method of striking and post striking care is unique for each of these.
As Bossman said...PCGS knows the identifiers for each type of strike...their opinion will be much more than just a guess.''
The 66 and 67 sms coins have to be craked out and handled and marking can occur.Of coarse I'm looking about 15-20 years out and weather people are still collecting .Just a little investment.
Be sure to report back with your immense profit once this coin is PCGS graded (assuming that you are looking to sell this ICG snafu).
That being said; I'd give the board, as a whole, a better than 90% chance of being able to tell you whether you have a BS or SMS coin from a good photo.
many times a collector wants to see something that is not there an MS64 icg slab is at most just that almost for certain and if there is a lot of proof qualities to the surface you have a SMS coin. Can the logic be wrong yes, is it likely to be wrong no.
<< <i>The 66 and 67 sms coins have to be craked out and handled and marking can occur. >>
Huh? Not wanting to appear snippy but the plastic containers for both the 66 and 67 SMS Sets were not sealed and as such, no cracking is required.
As for "investment potential", the ONLY potential for these, IMHO, is in original US Mint Shipping containers which are still sealed from shipping. It's been 46 years since that last 1967 SMS Sets were shipped out and if they were going to do anything at all, it would have occurred by now. From a coin "investment" opportunity, there are much better items to invest in from both a financial and time aspect. But then, that's just my opinion based upon my personal experience over the past 11 years. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here but simply sharing my experience.
As for stirking characteristics for SMS coins, the dies were polished and the coins were struck with a single strike of higher pressure than the coins intended for circulation. Other than that, it is extremely difficult to tell the SMS coins from the Circulation quality coins, especially for 1965.
Side by side, even an expert would have difficulty and at best would be making a "guess" based on coin quality since high quality business strikes "look" like low to middle end SMS coins.
1966 and 1967 are a little easier but not by much.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>you're so wise. why is there always at least one id**t in the bunch? >>
said by aidenisay
Now that was uncalled for.....
I suggest you contact your friend.