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*** So you think you can grade Peace Dollars from Photos? *** Grades Posted & 3 Lowball coin pho
BryceM
Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
So, I recently acquired an incomplete grading set of 1922 Peace Dollars and I've been adding a few pieces to it. The photos below represent about half of the set, which remains about dozen coins short of being complete.
All of the coins shown currently live in blue-label PCGS holders (the ones just prior to the onset of the edge-view holders). Judging by the cert numbers, these were not graded at the same time. The photos were all done using the same exposure (f/6.5 @ 1/1250s) for consistency. Some are a bit over-exposed and some under-exposed, but this should give you some help when judging toning & luster. None of the coins share a grade, and there are no plus grades. Some are circulated, some MS. Obviously there are no proofs!
After studying this set for a while I'm more or less comfortable with the assigned grades. None of the assigned grades seem wildly out of place to me.
The first person to guess all of them correctly might receive something cool in the mail. Extra credit might be given for useful discussion.
I'll post the answers when it seems like were not making any further progress.
Coin Number One:
Coin Number Two:
Coin Number Three:
Coin Number Four:
Coin Number Five:
Coin Number Six:
Coin Number Seven:
Coin Number Eight:
Coin Number Nine:
All of the coins shown currently live in blue-label PCGS holders (the ones just prior to the onset of the edge-view holders). Judging by the cert numbers, these were not graded at the same time. The photos were all done using the same exposure (f/6.5 @ 1/1250s) for consistency. Some are a bit over-exposed and some under-exposed, but this should give you some help when judging toning & luster. None of the coins share a grade, and there are no plus grades. Some are circulated, some MS. Obviously there are no proofs!
After studying this set for a while I'm more or less comfortable with the assigned grades. None of the assigned grades seem wildly out of place to me.
The first person to guess all of them correctly might receive something cool in the mail. Extra credit might be given for useful discussion.
I'll post the answers when it seems like were not making any further progress.Coin Number One:
Coin Number Two:
Coin Number Three:
Coin Number Four:
Coin Number Five:
Coin Number Six:
Coin Number Seven:
Coin Number Eight:
Coin Number Nine:
0
Comments
65
63
58
66
03
64
55
45
62
My Ebay Store
My Ebay Store
<< <i>Just to be clear, since they are part of a grading set, these are all different grades, correct? >>
Yup, per the OP.
1 MS64
2 MS63
3 AU58
4 MS65
5 AG3
6 AU55
7 AU53
8 XF45
9 MS62
2: 61
3: 58
4: 65
5: 2
6: 63
7: 64
8: 50
64
62
58
65
02
63
55
40
61
2.64
3.63
4.65
5.2
6.50
7.55
8.20
9.58
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
2 MS64
3 MS60
4 MS65
5 G4
6 MS61
7 AU58
8 EF40
9 MS63
I think
Hoard the keys.
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4
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40
64
That was hard coming up with my uneducated guesses. Fun thread!
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F2
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40
62
https://greatcollections.com/Collections/1120/The-Keyman64-Mercury-Dime-Collection/2024-07-07
2. 63
3. 58
4. 66
5. 2
6. 61
7. 65
8. 45
9. 62
Steve
I like your Idea though
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66
2
62
64
45
64
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
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55
66
4
62
65
53
58
Love coin number 4!
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
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58
66
f2
61
65
40
62
63
63
65
PO1
63
64
xf
64
63
58
66
3
61
62
40
55
62
55
66
02
61
64
45
58
63
53
66
4
62
65
40
58
...and #2, 6, and 7 have some contamination and need dipping.
Lance.
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66
03
63
55
45
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02
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64
45
63
All my best WAGs, by the way
PS: Grading from tiny iPhone pics makes it twice as hard!
Except maybe 5.
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One of the coins that I thought would be relatively easy one isn't getting called correctly very often.
When the grades are posted, I'll add a narrative about why I agree or disagree. I'm still VERY much a student of the grading process, but I know this series better than any other and unfortunately I'm the only one in the game who has access to the coins in-hand.
I agree with the comment that a couple of these show some ugly dip residue. We'll never know if they turned before or after the graders saw the coins.
<< <i>Regarding the title of this thread: I barely have a clue about grading the darn things when they're in my hands! >>
No kidding!
In hand, with good light and plenty of time I can usually do pretty good in the 63-66 range. Outside of that, trying to distinguish AU vs MS, and acceptable vs. body bag I'm a little lost at times. This series has as many nuances as any other. Throw in a good dose of mushy strikes and poorly made issues and it gets even more fun. I swear the keys get graded differently too.
The Peace Dollar is almost as hard to grade as the Buffalo Nickel!
There are 2 people with 4 correct answers.
There are 5 people with 3 correct answers.
There are 4 people with 2 correct answers.
There are 5 people with 1 correct answer.
There are 2 people with 0 correct answers.
Pretty tough huh?
I'll post the actual grades later tonight. For the record, I think this challenge was pretty tough and I've included plenty of coins that could be graded within a small range and nobody would complain. The distinction that exists from MS60-MS62 is surely not too reproducible even by the best graders but includes three distinct grades!!!
62
58
66
3
65
63
45
64
Tough!!!
And once again, a fantastic and very enlightening thread Bryce!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
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DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
1. 64
2. 61
3. 58
4. 65
5. 02
6. 62
7. 63
8. 50
9. 58
There are 2 people with 4 correct answers.
There are 6 people with 3 correct answers.
There are 5 people with 2 correct answers.
There are 5 people with 1 correct answer.
There are 4 people with 0 correct answers.
I've got to run to a Cub Scout meeting but when I get back, I'll post how PCGS saw them.
I'm working on a tie-breaker GTG if we need one.
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63
66
02
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63
35
62
Not my strong area-these are as tough to grade as walking liberty halves to me.
62
55
66
2
63
64
20
61
2. 61
3. 55
4. 65
5. 02
6. 62
7. 58
8. 35
9. 64
Can't wait to see the grades!
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62
55
66
2
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35
58
Final tally:
26 people made guesses.
There are 3 people with 4 correct answers.
There are 6 people with 3 correct answers.
There are 6 people with 2 correct answers.
There are 7 people with 1 correct answer.
There are 4 people with 0 correct answers.
Those who answered 4 correctly were lkrarecoins, georgiacop50, and hchcoin. I'll get to the tiebreaker in a bit.
I'll make comments on each coin, but in general I don't think there's much difference between MS60-MS62. Honestly I think eliminating 61 and 62 would be perfectly reasonable. When it comes to Peace dollars I think people get thrown too much by looking at bagmarks. The coins tend to have loads of them, but the way I see it, they're more of a grade limiter than a grade definer. The first thing is to just simply look at the coin at arm's length. Lustrous, frosty, well-struck examples really stand out, especially when you've looked through 1000s of them that aren't. Luster is king in this series. When viewed in good light it actually takes quite a bit of toning to hide the luster. Frost and textured surfaces free of breaks are enormously important. When all else is equal, the coin with frost will always win. Hairlines are easy to hide in photos. These will show up in the enormous fields and over Liberty's cheek. Strike is important, but not terribly so unless you're up in the 65 vs. 66 vs. 67 range.
Flashy, frosty coins will require a bunch of bagmarks to be knocked down. Flat, lackluster coins will never grade above 62 or so even with a total absence of marks. I think this series in particular is devilishly hard to grade from photos. Wear is best seen actually on the rock the eagle is sitting on. There are little raised wrinkles in the rock that show wear even better than the point of the eagle's shoulder or Liberty's neck.
Here are the grades as PCGS saw them:
Coin Number One, MS62: This coin has pretty good flash/luster, but plenty of marks. I think it's graded appropriately. I wouldn't be happy buying this as a 63.
Coin Number Two, MS63: This coin actually seems a bit over-graded to me just because of all the scuffing on Liberty's cheek. I think the impressive luster and deep frost in Liberty's hair and in the eagle's feathers tipped this one up to MS63.
Coin Number Three, AU55: Wear is evident at Liberty's neck and on the rock. A few scattered random scratches are visible too. Look at Liberty's cheek and neck. Still slightly lustrous. Graded correctly IMO.
Coin Number Four, MS66, CAC: This is from my core collection. This coin is tremendous in hand and really super flashy. Without the water spots it would be an easy 66+ with an outside shot at 67. Many people guessed this correctly.
Coin Number Five, PO1: Surprised not too many people got this. I have a FR02 and an AG03 which are clearly better in detail than this one. It is just barely discernible that there is no mintmark.
Coin Number Six, MS60: I think this coin is nicer than the 61 and about equal to the 62 in terms of marks & luster. It must have been graded down due to ugly toning, which looks like post-dip residual to me. Hairlined too.
Coin Number Seven, MS64: Not a PQ 64, at least not with the mottled reverse toning. This coin would be benefitted with a repeat dip. I think it would clean up beautifully. This coin has really nice frost and only a few bagmarks. Graded appropriately IMO.
Coin Number Eight, XF45: When I compare this to the XF40 and the AU50, the grade of 45 seems perfect. Not terribly well-struck, but has just a hint of residual luster.
Coin Number Nine, MS61: I would have graded this one MS63. I suppose it isn't quite as lustrous and has a few too many marks. The coin actually does have some frost though.
I hope everyone had fun with this. I'm sure I learned more from the exercise than anyone. Now for the tiebreaker:
Maybe I should pay for the official PCGS photo next time!
Nice collection, and very educational. We need more threads like this!
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58
66
03
62
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35
61
64+
63+
64
65+
AG3
64
64
EF45
MS64
I hit a few nails on the head.. and a few I smashed my thumb on.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don