Using PCGS Photograde Online for comparison,Coin #5.the most worn one,matches up with the image for FR02 best,so I definitely don't see PO01 for this coin. From a dollar standpoint,this is a big deal since we now have a new breed of collector who seek out slick coins like this in slabs for their collection.
Coin #5 deserves the grade FR02.Coin needs to come out of slab and go in pocket for a time so it will command more respect from the ones who appreciate their slickers.
Coin #8 has no trace of mint luster.XF45 grade for this coin is wrong.I called it VF20.That might be a bit low but XF45 it is definitely not.This coin also has distracting and rather prominent reed marks on the eagle so it gets disqualified from "nice for the grade" consideration from me.If a Peace Dollar is XF from a wear standpoint,it gets 40,not 45, from me for prominent dings like this.
Coin #5,FR02.Coin #8,not XF45.Photograde Online should be most useful to decide on grades for circulated coins.
Does anyone disagree with me about this?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>Are you of the opinion that the professional graders got the grades right for coins #5 and #8? >>
Coin #8, yes, absolutely. In-hand I can see some residual luster (not much, but its an XF coin) and I mentioned that in my "answer" post above. I have other slabbed XF45 Peace dollars which exhibit a similar look.
Coin #5, yes I agree with the grade, but I see where a person could argue. My contention is that with any more wear, it would be impossible to determine that were was not a mintmark, and therefore would be unlikely to slab. I also have an FR02 and an AG03 in the grading set, both of which exhibit less wear than the coin in question. I'll post photos of them this evening if I get a minute. I'm not a lowball collector, so admittedly I've not seen lots of these. That's just my take on it. Honestly I think making much of a distinction between 01 and 02 is pure silliness.
Final answer: I see no reason to question the graders, who had the benefit of seeing the coins in-hand, as opposed to grading from photos, which tends to be like a walk through a minefield. Refer to the thread title.
<< <i>I was only a few points off ... on all of them ... oh, well ... >>
No harm there. There were many people whose opinion I think is quite valuable who only got a couple correct but were within spitting distance on all of them. To me, that's an indication that they only lacked the benefit of seeing the coins in-hand. Also, it's VERY unlikely that these same 9 coins, if submitted again, would come back with identical grades.
While I didn't participate in the exercise (mainly because I was all over the place in trying to interpret the grades of these 9 coins), there is no blowing smoke here. I find you to be amongst the most informative and entertaining posters within this forum. Not to mention having perhaps the best diction as well as being amongst having some of the most well thought out and informative commentary (along with common sense) within this forum.
Well, I don't know about all that stuff, but I do hope the thread was informative.
When I see threads asking "where has everyone gone?" and lamenting the poor quality of the discussion, I'm inspired to try to post something useful. Sometimes it's a hit and sometimes it's a miss, but it's worth a try. Compared to many who post here and who make their living in the business, I'm still pretty much a novice.
The title of this thread is in spirit of PCGS Photograde Online,a useful tool to help even the beginner numismatist grade his/her coins.
Comparing excellent photos of Peace Dollars in this thread to Photograde photos should mostly work out,especially for circulated coins.
I think I'm having a tough time accepting that a Peace Dollar can look so rough as coin #8 and still be called XF45 or what I understand to be "nice for the XF grade," excellent thread photos and Photograde Online notwithstanding.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
As another personal example of how tough this series is... Last December, before the little price jump, and along with a sizable submission, I included 5 or 6 1934 Peace dollars... I thought they'd all come in at 60-63's.. and make my submission perhaps close to being cost effective at best and a learning experience at worst.
A learning experience it was! 5 came back as 58's and one a 62! And for the life of me, and to this day, holding them side by side, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between that 62 and the majority of the others!
Thank heavens I got some 65's and 66's in the mix of other coins but those Peace dollars were the only AU's out of the batch and a bitter surprise it was at that!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I looked at the Photograde photos and the coin posted here. Perhaps you're focusing too much on the bagmarks/hits on the coin? The example on Photograde is really pretty clean. My take is that on circulated coins, the degree of detail (and a bit of luster at XF45) are more important than marks, which can be excused for the most part. HTH.
Oh, and NW,
I've identified and presented several sliders to the graders myself. LOL! The line between AU64 and MS64 can be fine indeed.
Here are the three lowest-graded coins in the grading set. I guess we can argue all day long about the appropriateness of the grades, but I think the PO01 has the least remaining detail of any of the three.
Interestingly, I swear I see an "S" mintmark on the FR02 coin.
Great thread! I am going to confess - I don't know much about grading Peace Dollars and guessed on my way out the door to pick my son up from hockey practice. Just goes to show you a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while
I don't think this thread will really be complete until you tell us why and how you became fascinated with Peace Dollars......................?
Comments
From a dollar standpoint,this is a big deal since we now have a new breed of collector who seek out slick coins like this in slabs for their collection.
Coin #5 deserves the grade FR02.Coin needs to come out of slab and go in pocket for a time so it will command more respect from the ones who appreciate their slickers.
Coin #8 has no trace of mint luster.XF45 grade for this coin is wrong.I called it VF20.That might be a bit low but XF45 it is definitely not.This coin also has distracting and rather prominent reed marks on the eagle so it gets disqualified from "nice for the grade" consideration from me.If a Peace Dollar is XF from a wear standpoint,it gets 40,not 45, from me for prominent dings like this.
Coin #5,FR02.Coin #8,not XF45.Photograde Online should be most useful to decide on grades for circulated coins.
Does anyone disagree with me about this?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>Does anyone disagree with me about this? >>
Obviously three professional graders at PCGS. The assigned grades are their opinion, not mine.
Are you of the opinion that the professional graders got the grades right for coins #5 and #8?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
VF
AU
MS
Not necessarily in that order and barring numerics.
<< <i>Are you of the opinion that the professional graders got the grades right for coins #5 and #8? >>
Coin #8, yes, absolutely. In-hand I can see some residual luster (not much, but its an XF coin) and I mentioned that in my "answer" post above. I have other slabbed XF45 Peace dollars which exhibit a similar look.
Coin #5, yes I agree with the grade, but I see where a person could argue. My contention is that with any more wear, it would be impossible to determine that were was not a mintmark, and therefore would be unlikely to slab. I also have an FR02 and an AG03 in the grading set, both of which exhibit less wear than the coin in question. I'll post photos of them this evening if I get a minute. I'm not a lowball collector, so admittedly I've not seen lots of these. That's just my take on it. Honestly I think making much of a distinction between 01 and 02 is pure silliness.
Final answer: I see no reason to question the graders, who had the benefit of seeing the coins in-hand, as opposed to grading from photos, which tends to be like a walk through a minefield. Refer to the thread title.
<< <i>I was only a few points off ... on all of them ... oh, well ...
No harm there. There were many people whose opinion I think is quite valuable who only got a couple correct but were within spitting distance on all of them. To me, that's an indication that they only lacked the benefit of seeing the coins in-hand. Also, it's VERY unlikely that these same 9 coins, if submitted again, would come back with identical grades.
While I didn't participate in the exercise (mainly because I was all over the place in trying to interpret the grades of these 9 coins), there is no blowing smoke here. I find you to be amongst the most informative and entertaining posters within this forum. Not to mention having perhaps the best diction as well as being amongst having some of the most well thought out and informative commentary (along with common sense) within this forum.
When I see threads asking "where has everyone gone?" and lamenting the poor quality of the discussion, I'm inspired to try to post something useful. Sometimes it's a hit and sometimes it's a miss, but it's worth a try. Compared to many who post here and who make their living in the business, I'm still pretty much a novice.
Comparing excellent photos of Peace Dollars in this thread to Photograde photos should mostly work out,especially for circulated coins.
I think I'm having a tough time accepting that a Peace Dollar can look so rough as coin #8 and still be called XF45 or what I understand to be "nice for the XF grade," excellent thread photos and Photograde Online notwithstanding.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
You and one other person voted VF20
4 votes for VF35
7 votes for XF40
10 votes for XF45
3 votes for AU50
1 vote for AU53
1 vote for MS64 (had to be a mistake)
Not sure what to tell you. Pretty much everyone else saw it as either XF40 or XF45........
As another personal example of how tough this series is...
Last December, before the little price jump, and along with a sizable submission, I included 5 or 6 1934 Peace dollars... I thought they'd all come in at 60-63's..
and make my submission perhaps close to being cost effective at best and a learning experience at worst.
A learning experience it was!
5 came back as 58's and one a 62!
And for the life of me, and to this day, holding them side by side, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between that 62 and the majority of the others!
Thank heavens I got some 65's and 66's in the mix of other coins but those Peace dollars were the only AU's out of the batch and a bitter surprise it was at that!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I looked at the Photograde photos and the coin posted here. Perhaps you're focusing too much on the bagmarks/hits on the coin? The example on Photograde is really pretty clean. My take is that on circulated coins, the degree of detail (and a bit of luster at XF45) are more important than marks, which can be excused for the most part. HTH.
Oh, and NW,
I've identified and presented several sliders to the graders myself. LOL! The line between AU64 and MS64 can be fine indeed.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Here are the three lowest-graded coins in the grading set. I guess we can argue all day long about the appropriateness of the grades, but I think the PO01 has the least remaining detail of any of the three.
Interestingly, I swear I see an "S" mintmark on the FR02 coin.
Great thread! I am going to confess - I don't know much about grading Peace Dollars and guessed on my way out the door to pick my son up from hockey practice. Just goes to show you a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while
I don't think this thread will really be complete until you tell us why and how you became fascinated with Peace Dollars......................?