ATB 5 oz Coins - Simple Question - Why ???
rogerdiehl
Posts: 97 ✭✭
Why are the SP70 and MS69DMPL ATB 5oz coins so expensive ???? Many times 300% above cost....
What is really out of wack is the difference between the First Strike SP70's and the Roosevelt Labeled (non-First Strike) SP70's. Although the labelling really doesn't mean much if anything, these are down right highway robbery.
Given the fact that only dealers are ALLOWED to ask for Roosevelt labels - that is a good reason to not collect those.
What is really out of wack is the difference between the First Strike SP70's and the Roosevelt Labeled (non-First Strike) SP70's. Although the labelling really doesn't mean much if anything, these are down right highway robbery.
Given the fact that only dealers are ALLOWED to ask for Roosevelt labels - that is a good reason to not collect those.
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<< <i>Why are the SP70 and MS69DMPL ATB 5oz coins so expensive ???? Many times 300% above cost....
What is really out of wack is the difference between the First Strike SP70's and the Roosevelt Labeled (non-First Strike) SP70's. Although the labelling really doesn't mean much if anything, these are down right highway robbery.
Given the fact that only dealers are ALLOWED to ask for Roosevelt labels - that is a good reason to not collect those. >>
Simple answer...
Supply & Demand
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The other factor: top grades are tough in this set, for both collector and bullion versions. The coins are huge, with plenty of surface to show flaws.
Some of the best numismatic buys of 2012 were these coins shortly after date of issue, purchased graded, for both SP70 (collector) and 69 DMPL (bullion). Hawaii, Acadia and Denali have done very well.
<< <i>Are these actually being sold/bought for as much as $700+ each ???? >>
Completed auctions on eBay, does confirm that some of the 2012 P - 70's are selling for $700+
<< <i>To me, they are all nothing but melt. >>
I feel the same way about a lot of the coins I see posted on the U.S. Coin Forum but I manage not to disparage what others collect.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Then I looked at the N and P pops, and 69 and 70 prices, and picked up a few more.
Out of the 19 currently available, only a few have low pops. Another few, Hot Springs and a couple of others seem vastly overpriced comparing pops, but collectors seem to be holding them, so supply and demand.
The sizzle here, which affects pricing of precisely the same quality coins, are printed labels and autographs. I believe the signed labels were the idea of MCM, and along with First Strike and Early Strike labels seem to add sizzle and apparent value to the same coin available in standard blue P labeling, or the Roosevelt variation. As is the norm, there are far more N coins than P, and the Ns have a far lower value in the secondary market.
69s are basically valued at melt plus packaging, and grading these is expensive, as the plastic charge is high.
The problem for those who simply desire the coin as a 70 are the silly labels. For the record, and my eye is pretty good, I'm finding a few 69s that are every bit as good as 70s.
Add another wrinkle, in that for the 2013s, there are two to three times as many 70s as 69s, as the Mint ramps up its quality, and you can see where this is going. Far more 70s than seeming demand.
Why are the Hawaii coins, with relatively high pops, worth $6-700? No idea. For those who desire a set, there are only two stoppers. The smart move, if there is one here, for those who like the SP pieces, is probably to pick up 69s, the majority of which can be had for under $250 on eBay auction or best offer. With a current melt of around $125, a Mint price of about $150, and gradings fees around $45-50 for the huge plastic, the spread on 69s is tiny. And if bullion rises...
The one thing that I wish never appeared, was the myriad of labels, which in no way affects the coins.
Are there collectors desirous of coins in the Newman sale, who won't be bidding because the labels don't read "Early Strike." I can only hope.
EC
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<< <i>To me, they are all nothing but melt. >>
I feel the same way about a lot of the coins I see posted on the U.S. Coin Forum but I manage not to disparage what others collect. >>
I think it is important that collectors of ultra-modern NCLT realize that not everyone buys into the "70" premium game or the registry game. When I say that the 5 ounce pieces are just melt to me I am completely serious.
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<< <i>To me, they are all nothing but melt. >>
I feel the same way about a lot of the coins I see posted on the U.S. Coin Forum but I manage not to disparage what others collect. >>
I think it is important that collectors of ultra-modern NCLT realize that not everyone buys into the "70" premium game or the registry game. When I say that the 5 ounce pieces are just melt to me I am completely serious. >>
Good point but I think any contrary point can be said in a way that is minimally offensive. In the highly personalized world of collecting there is bound to be someone who is excited about one collectible and someone who thinks it is foolishness. Only time can tell who is correct and even then there may be no resolution. I will however admit that a contrary point is often a helpful thing and can make things more interesting if it is backed with some reason.
<< <i>Are these actually being sold/bought for as much as $700+ each ???? >>
There are 373 PCGS-graded MS69 DMPL First Strikes for the bullion version of Acadia, and 195 graded SP-70 for the collector version.
Those are low numbers for mint-issued coins.
And a lot of people on this board would have tried to talk you out of buying them last year
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
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<< <i>To me, they are all nothing but melt. >>
I feel the same way about a lot of the coins I see posted on the U.S. Coin Forum but I manage not to disparage what others collect. >>
Yes, I feel that frusteration, too.
Buying straight from the mint means ZERO chance of a counterfiet/cleaned coin. It's also kind of cool being the first owner. Who knows how many times a 5 oz P coin will trade hands after it leaves us. If enough hit the melting pot and people in 200 years are clamoring for these things, a Denali Puck could the thing collectors lust after.
<< <i>Graded bullion ATB's seem to be fading away as no dealers are offering Fort McHenry, in PCGS DMPL. Pop is 6, so there can only be 6 total collections as of today, a very small group! >>
I don't think that's lack of interest, I think it's because very few of the Fort McHenry's are grading 69 DMPL.
Not sure if the forum rules allow mentioning a dealer by name, but here's what one has to say:
"Only 151 MS-69PL First Strike's graded by PCGS with only 6 graded higher!"
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<< <i>Graded bullion ATB's seem to be fading away as no dealers are offering Fort McHenry, in PCGS DMPL. Pop is 6, so there can only be 6 total collections as of today, a very small group! >>
I don't think that's lack of interest, I think it's because very few of the Fort McHenry's are grading 69 DMPL.
Not sure if the forum rules allow mentioning a dealer by name, but here's what one has to say:
"Only 151 MS-69PL First Strike's graded by PCGS with only 6 graded higher!" >>
There used to be several dealers offering graded bullion ATB coins at reasonable prices. Seems MCM still offers NGC graded coins for a reasonable price, excellent and honest dealer with repeat customers. The dealer you reference is price gouging at $800 for a PCGS PL.
<< <i>There used to be several dealers offering graded bullion ATB coins at reasonable prices. Seems MCM still offers NGC graded coins for a reasonable price, excellent and honest dealer with repeat customers. The dealer you reference is price gouging at $800 for a PCGS PL. >>
Many dealers have gotten out of grading/selling the bullion ATBs. That being said, there still are several dealers offering PCGS MS-69 DMPL for the 2013 ATBs. Just not Fort McHenry. That includes all the usual sources, plus Ebay.
I don't think the lack of affordable Fort McHenry ATBs graded PCGS MS-69 DMPL can be attributed to one dealer. I think it's more likely that the coins are suffering quality issues.
I am collecting all the silver quarter proof First Strike PCGS PF DCAM 70s though.
Box of 20