Would you buy this set as displayed?

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piecesofme
piecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
eBay item number 231013549693

How could a person know if the bars are real .999 silver and the weight is what it should be when they are encapsulated like that?
If I were to take the bars out of the case, and they were not real, I wonder if the seller would honor the money back guarantee they offer? They make no mention in the auction that I could not do that. In fact it says "fully guaranteed".
Otherwise, how can I be assured everything is real. These bars dont have serial numbers, so there is no paperwork they could be matched up with.

Would you buy this as is? price is not the issue, being genuine is. For the sake of arguement, say the seller is selling it for Spot, which would be roughly for $700. Would that persuade you to possibly take a $700 loss if eBay ruled that because you broke the bars out of the case to determine if the bars were real, and they weren't, you cannot return the item.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.

Comments

  • mrpaseo
    mrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
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    Johnson Matthey Canada JMC 999 SILVER Lot = 5 OLD Style POUR BARS Rare 29oz JM
  • OPA
    OPA Posts: 17,166 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That display does not look like a permanent tomb. If in doubt, you could just unscrew the display case & have the bars essayed.
    Not my piece of cake .. $66 per oz for clumps of silver.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • Pokermandude
    Pokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
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    Agreed it does look like a case which can be disassembled/reassembled.

    I think even if you had a silver bar (with a serial #) inside a solid brick of lucite, cracked it out and then determined the bar was fake, that Paypal would make still you whole.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • mrpaseo
    mrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
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    I could not find anything on them so I would not touch them with my limited budget, but I did find a cool video here that describes their process. Interesting.

    Best,
    Ray
  • jmski52
    jmski52 Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm certainly not an expert on bars, but that doesn't look like JM quality. Granted, they may be older and they may be from Canada but I'm not convinced that these are good bars. The Seller looks legit. I just think that the bars aren't good enough for JM.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • mrpaseo
    mrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
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    This auction states that the actual weight is different than what is stamped into the block... this is a red flag to me. Since it is 999+ it should not have enough other metal in it to account for the extra once of weight, someone correct me if I am wrong please.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Between the price and the unknown's, I would stay away.... Cheers, RickO
  • mrpaseo
    mrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
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    This seller has a wide array of items most if not all priced with a BIN that is priced at the high end of their value.

    Made me think that this guy works at a consignment shop, people bring in their items and put them in the case with their asking price. Then this ebay seller takes a few pictures of the items and lists them on ebay over the cost of what the owner is asking in their shop. Sounds like an awesome idea. Over in the Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg area they have many "Antique" stores where anyone can go in, rent an area of the store and put their "stuff". Then the tourists go through and buy up their stuff. I picture working at one of these stores and ebaying all the items that people bring in...lol.

    Sorry, has nothing to do with your post, just realized the potential of a selling op and wanted to share.

  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    i would not buy as a bullion investment. since i do not "collect" bullion i would have no interest in it unless it was close to spot.

    probably a nice novelty for the collector.

    I quit collecting anything years ago; anyone need a beanie baby?

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • piecesofme
    piecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
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    i would not buy as a bullion investment. since i do not "collect" bullion i would have no interest in it unless it was close to spot.

    25 coin tubes of one ounce 2008 silver maple collector coins with 2010 olympic commmorative privy mark. $775 insured and delivered

    I guess your idea of the word, bullion, and my idea of it are not remotely similar. image

    btw, I asked the seller about this and he said the case could be unscrewed if someone wanted to do that to test the bars...BUT 1) he did NOT say if he would accept the bars back if they were found to not be genuine & 2) if in fact the case could be screwed back together.
    Some things once taken apart cannot be put back together. This is a very scheming seller that I would be very skeptical buying anything from...but that's just me because I'm paranoid, right derryb? lol
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • Wingsrule
    Wingsrule Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭✭
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    Looks good to me. I rarely see this set offered. I have a few of the bars but never have pulled the trigger on a full set. I would buy this one if the price were a little more to my liking.

    And if they didn't weigh properly, there's the SNAD option / ebay protection.
  • Wingsrule
    Wingsrule Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭✭
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    Mr. Paseo - the auction you reference is 1.8g 'overweight'. There are 311.03g in 10 troy ounces. I would consider that reasonable given manufacturing tolerances in general.
  • Pokermandude
    Pokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
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    << <i>btw, I asked the seller about this and he said the case could be unscrewed if someone wanted to do that to test the bars...BUT 1) he did NOT say if he would accept the bars back if they were found to not be genuine & 2) if in fact the case could be screwed back together. Some things once taken apart cannot be put back together. This is a very scheming seller that I would be very skeptical buying anything from...but that's just me because I'm paranoid, right derryb? lol >>



    You seem a bit paranoid. Even in his listing he says "FULLY GUARANTEED". I don't think he is trying to pull a fast one here. Pay through a credit card in Paypal and there is virtually a zero percent chance you'll get burned on the off chance it isn't legit.

    If these were in my collecting sphere and the price was to my liking, I'd go for it.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • mrpaseo
    mrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
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    << <i>Mr. Paseo - the auction you reference is 1.8g 'overweight'. There are 311.03g in 10 troy ounces. I would consider that reasonable given manufacturing tolerances in general. >>



    Thanks, so is the listing incorrect in stating that it is an ounce over?

    << <i>MARKED 10oz, HOWEVER THIS ACTUALLY WEIGHS OVER 11 OZ, 312.8 GRAMS TO BE EXACT >>



    At 311.03g in 10 troy ounces we are looking at 31.103 per troy ounce. So this item can not weight in at 11 ounces if it is 312.8 as the seller says, so is it a safe assumption that he did his math wrong?

    Maybe it has something to do with troy ounces?
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i> Johnson Matthey Canada JMC 999 SILVER Lot = 5 OLD Style POUR BARS Rare 29oz JM >>



    We handled a set like that at the coin shop I worked at. The bars were fine.

    That said, I think that this set is overpriced, IMHO.
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>This auction states that the actual weight is different than what is stamped into the block... this is a red flag to me. Since it is 999+ it should not have enough other metal in it to account for the extra once of weight, someone correct me if I am wrong please. >>



    He is confusing troy ounces with avoirdupois ounces. The gram weight given is close enough for 10 tr. oz. However, that is more than 11 avdp. oz.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • piecesofme
    piecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
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    You seem a bit paranoid. Even in his listing he says "FULLY GUARANTEED". I don't think he is trying to pull a fast one here. Pay through a credit card in Paypal and there is virtually a zero percent chance you'll get burned on the off chance it isn't legit

    But, he failed to answer if taking it apart the holder and finding one, or all bars to be fake would still be within fully guaranteed guarantee. He could argue, and I would bet that eBay would concur, that taking the bars out of the holder and trying to return them NOT in the holder voids the return policy.
    He also doesn't confirm if the holder can be put back together.
    Yep, I'm paranoid...aka aware of the "outs" the seller is leaving themself that eBay would most likley agree with. Maybe I'm being too over cautious image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a homemade holder using an old Capital Plastics holder. You can easily take it apart and inspect/weigh each bar while raw and then put it back together. Agree with those that said it's overpriced.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • piecesofme
    piecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
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    A set recently sold just like it on eBay for $1295, which I thought was insane...but look at what I'm paying for 5 Toz Engelhards LOL. So what do I know?
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>i would not buy as a bullion investment. since i do not "collect" bullion i would have no interest in it unless it was close to spot.

    25 coin tubes of one ounce 2008 silver maple collector coins with 2010 olympic commmorative privy mark. $775 insured and delivered

    I guess your idea of the word, bullion, and my idea of it are not remotely similar. image >>


    I ordered a sealed monster box of silver maples from Tulving in 2008 at bullion price and received a box of the collector coins that are in my listing and am selling some of the tubes. Like I said earlier, I would not buy the item under discussion as a bullion investment. Since i do not "collect" bullion i would have no interest in it unless it was close to spot. You asked a question and I answered it. If you don't like the answers you get stop asking the questions.

    All American Eagles and Canadian Maples, including "collector versions," are considered bullion coins regardless of material, finish or mintmark.

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    image

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

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