Southern Branch Mint Gold Question
Shoedog
Posts: 136
I have been getting interested in putting togrther a mint mark set of $5 Libertys inspired by reading RYKs blog on the Doug Winter website.I have been studying pricing trying to determine what grades to shoot for on the Dahlonega and Charlotte.
I am using a 2013 Redbook to get in the ballpark.Just for laughs i pulled out my 2007 Redbook only to discover prices have actually decreased on most of the Cs and Ds.Anyone have any explaination for this?Have prices on these coins really softened in the marketplace or is RB missing something here?
Fascinating history on these coins in any case and if they are selling at a discount so much the better.
Thanks,
Shoedog
I am using a 2013 Redbook to get in the ballpark.Just for laughs i pulled out my 2007 Redbook only to discover prices have actually decreased on most of the Cs and Ds.Anyone have any explaination for this?Have prices on these coins really softened in the marketplace or is RB missing something here?
Fascinating history on these coins in any case and if they are selling at a discount so much the better.
Thanks,
Shoedog
0
Comments
<< <i> >>
I agree with Lanlord. That's the only explanation.
Lance.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If I recall correctly, C- and D- mint may have been more popular six or seven years ago.
Also, a lot of those coins have been "processed" or otherwise played with over the past several years.
Many current collectors decline to buy the processed examples, which depresses their prices, but, of course, pushes up the prices of the remaining original coins.
I believe the situation is similar over in "Classic Commem Land", where the masses of over-dipped white coins depress the price guides, but also push up the prices of nice examples.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
goal was to try to assemble the set for $7500 or less as was related to another post a
few months ago.
I did purchase an AU50 Dahlonega 1853 for $2450. I am looking to acquire a Charlotte for
around $2200. The CC and O mints may be more difficult even though they are less costly.
The P, S, and D mints can be acquired in AU53 to AU58 for around $450 or less.
<< <i>The CC and O mints may be more difficult even though they are less costly. >>
I have been looking for the New Orleans mint coin for a while, and have not had much luck. I would prefer to find one of the hoard pieces from the 1840s (1844 or '45), but they don't seem to show up at the shows, and I have been able to attend an auction where one was offered. I spotted one at a recent auctions, but the people who advise me about auction purchases told me to back off.
'dude
Taylor
<< <i>
<< <i>The CC and O mints may be more difficult even though they are less costly. >>
I have been looking for the New Orleans mint coin for a while, and have not had much luck. I would prefer to find one of the hoard pieces from the 1840s (1844 or '45), but they don't seem to show up at the shows, and I have been able to attend an auction where one was offered. I spotted one at a recent auctions, but the people who advise me about auction purchases told me to back off. >>
There is a huge difference between a 44-o and a 45-o. The 45-o is many times more scare and relatively undervalued. The 44-o is the most common O mint $5. NYGM has a nice 45-o AU58 CAC offered now.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>What Mr Eureka said. Try not to focus so much on grades, but on matching the color & originality of the coins for your set. Even if your grades vary from, say VF-30 to AU-50, matching the look of the coins with a focus on originality will ensure you have a quality, solid set. Much of the pricing deflation has been due to many C, O, & D mint coins having been dipped/stripped of their original surfaces and color. The typical XF/AU example in all slabs tends to come with a drab, lifeless look. Any original example, with attractive coloration will bring a premium over the typical coin as they have become unfortunately, far and fewer between.
'dude >>
Anyone ever consider focusing on putting together an "AU Details" set? Seems some bargains could be had and unlike a VF-30 all the features of the coin would be intact and not worn down. Once one drops below mint state everything else is a compromise one way or another.
I agree with those who have said that one should strive for a "look," rather than a particular grade level. All things being equal, I would much rather have a nice, attractive, conservatively graded XF45, with original skin and color, than a dipped and stripped, washed-out, maxed-out AU58.
<< <i>I am NOT a gold collector so I'm speaking from the silver point of view - but the Redbook is practically worthless when discussing values of scarce coinage. You would do far better using the PCGS price guide and auction prices realized. >>
I agree with this statement. Although it's handy as a general numismatic pocket reference, the Redbook is not of much value when it comes to pricing.
<< <i>What Mr Eureka said. Try not to focus so much on grades, but on matching the color & originality of the coins for your set. Even if your grades vary from, say VF-30 to AU-50, matching the look of the coins with a focus on originality will ensure you have a quality, solid set. Much of the pricing deflation has been due to many C, O, & D mint coins having been dipped/stripped of their original surfaces and color. The typical XF/AU example in all slabs tends to come with a drab, lifeless look. Any original example, with attractive coloration will bring a premium over the typical coin as they have become unfortunately, far and fewer between.
'dude >>
Every word of this rings true (double-entendre intentional). Don't overthink it.
<< <i>
<< <i>The CC and O mints may be more difficult even though they are less costly. >>
I have been looking for the New Orleans mint coin for a while, and have not had much luck. I would prefer to find one of the hoard pieces from the 1840s (1844 or '45), but they don't seem to show up at the shows, and I have been able to attend an auction where one was offered. I spotted one at a recent auctions, but the people who advise me about auction purchases told me to back off. >>
"O" mint gold does show up occasionally, but I found I had to go to a dealer who specializes in southern gold to find ones I liked.
My 1852-O $20 and 1882-O $10 were purchased from the same dealer.
You can also look up auction record photos for other denominations in this collection that have been stripped for comparison.
<< <i>You can check out the Duke's Creek Half Eagle Collection for reference.
You can also look up auction record photos for other denominations in this collection that have been stripped for comparison. >>
I wish the Dukes Creek collection was in its former state and wasn't dipped out and overgraded as it is today.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>You can check out the Duke's Creek Half Eagle Collection for reference.
You can also look up auction record photos for other denominations in this collection that have been stripped for comparison. >>
I wish the Dukes Creek collection was in its former state and wasn't dipped out and overgraded as it is today. >>
I own one of the two 1838-D half eagles that PCGS has graded MS-63. I saw the Dukes's Creek 1838-D $5 gold at the last FUN show. It had been clearly better than one I have, but a Dahlonega expert told me that he now considers my piece to be the best because of what has been done to the Duke's Creek coin.
The Duke's Creek $5 Dahlonega set was available at that show offered as a unit. The general opinion was that the asking price was too high. It's a shame that the owers thought that dipping the coins and getting them into higher grade holders would enhance the value. From what I have seen it seems to have done the opposite.
<< <i>I own one of the two 1838-D half eagles that PCGS has graded MS-63. I saw the Dukes's Creek 1838-D $5 gold at the last FUN show. It had been clearly better than one I have, but a Dahlonega expert told me that he now considers my piece to be the best because of what has been done to the Duke's Creek coin.
The Duke's Creek $5 Dahlonega set was available at that show offered as a unit. The general opinion was that the asking price was too high. It's a shame that the owers thought that dipping the coins and getting them into higher grade holders would enhance the value. From what I have seen it seems to have done the opposite. >>
The Dukes Creek coin is from the Stack's Coles auction in 1983, as I recall. I have been told by those who saw it that it had perhaps the most superb coloration ever seen on a Dahlonega half eagle. Now the color is gone, due to unbridled avarice. I think that what was done to the Dukes Creek coins was numismatic malpractice. I wouldn't want to own one, due to principle alone.
<< <i>The Dukes Creek coin is from the Stack's Coles auction in 1983, as I recall. I have been told by those who saw it that it had perhaps the most superb coloration ever seen on a Dahlonega half eagle. Now the color is gone, due to unbridled avarice. I think that what was done to the Dukes Creek coins was numismatic malpractice. I wouldn't want to own one, due to principle alone. >>
I couldn't agree more. I wish the individuals could be more publically held accountable for their behavior.
Latin American Collection
Norweb 93-S $1 anyone?
<< <i>
<< <i>I own one of the two 1838-D half eagles that PCGS has graded MS-63. I saw the Dukes's Creek 1838-D $5 gold at the last FUN show. It had been clearly better than one I have, but a Dahlonega expert told me that he now considers my piece to be the best because of what has been done to the Duke's Creek coin.
The Duke's Creek $5 Dahlonega set was available at that show offered as a unit. The general opinion was that the asking price was too high. It's a shame that the owers thought that dipping the coins and getting them into higher grade holders would enhance the value. From what I have seen it seems to have done the opposite. >>
The Dukes Creek coin is from the Stack's Coles auction in 1983, as I recall. I have been told by those who saw it that it had perhaps the most superb coloration ever seen on a Dahlonega half eagle. Now the color is gone, due to unbridled avarice. I think that what was done to the Dukes Creek coins was numismatic malpractice. I wouldn't want to own one, due to principle alone. >>
Before that I believe that the Dukes Creek coin was in the inventory of a coin dealer, Herb Effabaum, (phonetic spelling) who set up at a number of northern New Jersey coin shows in the mid 1970s. The asking price back then was $1,800. I was intrigued but was working on my early type coins at the time and had no coin budget money for southern mint gold.
Herb told me that the coin went on to glory at a major auction as the finest known after he sold it. I'm looking back through more than 35 years of memory images, but I remember the piece that he had was better than the one I have now. There can't be that many high grade 1838-D half eagles out there. I remember his piece as something like an MS-64. It looked like a really nice type coin you found for a common date in the early 1900s.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I own one of the two 1838-D half eagles that PCGS has graded MS-63. I saw the Dukes's Creek 1838-D $5 gold at the last FUN show. It had been clearly better than one I have, but a Dahlonega expert told me that he now considers my piece to be the best because of what has been done to the Duke's Creek coin.
The Duke's Creek $5 Dahlonega set was available at that show offered as a unit. The general opinion was that the asking price was too high. It's a shame that the owers thought that dipping the coins and getting them into higher grade holders would enhance the value. From what I have seen it seems to have done the opposite. >>
The Dukes Creek coin is from the Stack's Coles auction in 1983, as I recall. I have been told by those who saw it that it had perhaps the most superb coloration ever seen on a Dahlonega half eagle. Now the color is gone, due to unbridled avarice. I think that what was done to the Dukes Creek coins was numismatic malpractice. I wouldn't want to own one, due to principle alone. >>
Before that I believe that the Dukes Creek coin was in the inventory of a coin dealer, Herb Effabaum, (phonetic spelling) who set up at a number of northern New Jersey coin shows in the mid 1970s. The asking price back then was $1,800. I was intrigued but was working on my early type coins at the time and had no coin budget money for southern mint gold.
Herb told me that the coin went on to glory at a major auction as the finest known after he sold it. I'm looking back through more than 35 years of memory images, but I remember the piece that he had was better than the one I have now. There can't be that many high grade 1838-D half eagles out there. I remember his piece as something like an MS-64. It looked like a really nice type coin you found for a common date in the early 1900s. >>
I didn't get to see the Coles 1838-D half eagle when it was auctioned by Stack's in 1983. It was purchased in that auction by Jack Hanc0¢k, to go directly in the Arthur Montgomery Collection, which he was building. The marvelous collection was on display at the 1995 ANA Early Spring Convention in Atlanta, where I was finally able to view the Coles 1838-D half eagle. Incredibly, it was in a PCGS MS60 holder at that time, obviously graded by "old school" standards. We all lost Jack at an early age in 1999. As Jack was a strong believer in originality, I don't think that he would have allowed the Coles coin to be stripped, had he lived.