How to become a "better" or "smarter" collector?
knoxy4
Posts: 45
So I've been collecting coins for round about a year now. Have spent most of that time filling Dansco albums for modern coins and am starting a 7070. I've been reading posts on this site almost daily for about 6ish months or so. My question to all of you here is in regards to learning the hobby.
Essentially I get the feeling this is the place where some (most?) who post here are, shall we say in the "major leagues" of the hobby, and by default have a vastly superior knowledge base then I on just about everything. I've heard many times that after doing it for years you just kinda learn it. Rather then experience being my teacher where I learn something after loosing money on a coin, or overspending for something big, I'm hoping to pick your brain a little bit.
I love the red book and understand it's kind of overview of the entire US coinage, and am using the Whitman guide to type coins as I progress through my 7070. But my question is how did you or what methods helped you learn about the hobby. Books? Mentor type relationship? Online community?
Here with thousands of dollars can be the difference between just one numerical grade, how/when did you feel comfortable in looking at a Morgan in a MS63 holder, but know that it should (probably) be classified a 64? As a recent college grad, I know that high dollar coins are not in the cards for me. "Collect what you like," is a common saying here and I believe that. But darn it, I'm not afraid to say that I am outright jealous of the absolutely stunning coins I see here everyday.
So I guess moral of my post is, I would sure appreciate some help/guidance on how to improve/build a knowledge base that would help me succeed and not loose the entirety of my shirt in this hobby. Thanks for taking the time to read my lil section of the digital universe here
Essentially I get the feeling this is the place where some (most?) who post here are, shall we say in the "major leagues" of the hobby, and by default have a vastly superior knowledge base then I on just about everything. I've heard many times that after doing it for years you just kinda learn it. Rather then experience being my teacher where I learn something after loosing money on a coin, or overspending for something big, I'm hoping to pick your brain a little bit.
I love the red book and understand it's kind of overview of the entire US coinage, and am using the Whitman guide to type coins as I progress through my 7070. But my question is how did you or what methods helped you learn about the hobby. Books? Mentor type relationship? Online community?
Here with thousands of dollars can be the difference between just one numerical grade, how/when did you feel comfortable in looking at a Morgan in a MS63 holder, but know that it should (probably) be classified a 64? As a recent college grad, I know that high dollar coins are not in the cards for me. "Collect what you like," is a common saying here and I believe that. But darn it, I'm not afraid to say that I am outright jealous of the absolutely stunning coins I see here everyday.
So I guess moral of my post is, I would sure appreciate some help/guidance on how to improve/build a knowledge base that would help me succeed and not loose the entirety of my shirt in this hobby. Thanks for taking the time to read my lil section of the digital universe here
0
Comments
Good advice above.
At this late hour, all I can think of is a quote from The Color of Money (a terrible sequel to a great 1960 film). "Pool excellence is not about excellent pool. It's about becoming something. You got to be a student of human moves. See, all the greats that I know were students of human moves." With that in mind, draw on every resource around you without prejudice, keep a mental record of things that work and observe as much as possible, engaging when you can. Be deliberate and true.
Best wishes,
Eric
Hoard the keys.
Grading skill is something that a person can work on. Images are ok, but in person coins are better. There are also paid classes and seminars, and if a person is going to put in serious money, the cost of these classes is well worth it. A mentor can help a great deal, though a bad mentor can be worse than going it alone. Market knowledge is about which coins are hard to find, which coins are almost always available and the prices they typically trade at. That's where that first suggestion of trying to sell some coins can be very useful. If a person has an aptitude for numbers, pouring over auction results and perhaps compiling some data can be a way to go.
So work on all three, grading skill, connections, market knowledge. Look at lots of coins or at least images of coins. Study the hammer prices. Join clubs to develop relationships, if spending a lot isn't in the cards.
Perhaps the best advice I could give you is this: read as much as you can. For $100 (or less, if you buy used on Amazon) you can build an excellent "starter" numismatic library. I'd get the Official Red Book (note: do NOT use for pricing), a guide to grading coins (preferably the Photograde book written by Q David Bowers, et. all.), Cherry Picker's Guide (at least one of the books), maybe a book on counterfeits, and one on your favorite coin series. I learn something new each time I pick up those books. The most important thing you can do when starting is NOT get burned with a fake/problem coin, because significant losses tend to discourage further involvement in the hobby.
To answer your question- any trustworthy resource helps. Most of us have used all three sources (online forum, mentor, books) at one point or another. I've been lucky enough to have an excellent mentor (who's actually on these Forums- his identity will be kept secret though) who meets with me often to discuss our collection, new purchases, trades, and so forth. Such a mentor does a good job of referring you to more resources and then discussing those resources with you. The online community *can* serve as a mentor, as there are tons of active members who post stuff around the clock that would be very happy to answer your questions/provide feedback on your comments.
Oh- if there's a coin shop in the area, frequent it. Ask tons of questions, and if the dealer is a bit clueless, at least spend time looking at the coins. Also, attending ANY coin show in the area does wonders. You'll get to compare high end slabs with high end coins in them, and learn to differentiate amongst MS62, 63, 64, and so forth. Pretty much, you have to immerse yourself in the hobby. it'll pay off quick.
Having said that...
I'd try and stick to slabbed coins as a starter. Just makes things easier in the beginning.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
I would also recommend finding a first edition PCGS grading guide - the one with the color plates. It has decent photographs of many things and shows what are considered the primary, secondary and tertiary areas for marks on the various US designs. All the Mint State grades are shown for many issues; luster, toning types and patterns, Prooflike surfaces, all and more (counterfeit detection etc.) are satisfactorily explained and shown in the one volume. It is an excellent resource and springboard. It should able to be had for $35-$50 or so on Abebooks, Alibris or the like.
Best wishes,
Eric
1. Learn something about the workings of the coin market---how coins are priced, what price guides really mean (sometimes nothing!), what a dealer might offer for a coin and why, venues for selling, evolution of grading, types of dealers, etc. Selling coins from time to time will teach you a lot, especially if you first offer them to the dealers from whom you bought them. Some places to find this type of information: archived Forum topics, Doug Winter's website, coinweek.com.
2. Access to coins is critical. You cannot learn to evaluate a coin by looking at lots of images on a monitor or in books. Look at LOTS of coins in hand---good, bad, and ugly.
3. Try to find a mentor, because few collectors manage to make progress without some type of help.
4. Figure out who the good dealers are (i.e., ones who treat their customers fairly and are knowledgeable), particularly ones that handle reasonable amounts of coins of the kinds that interest you.
5. If you aren't sure about buying a particular coin because there is something about it that you don't like or the price seems too high, keep your money in your wallet.
6. There are TPG-slabbed coins all over the place, but the availability of these does not mean that the grades are always on the mark---you still need to learn to grade what you are collecting. The ANA offers several courses on grading, so take them if you can.
7. Patience is a virtue---buying on impulse (because you're bored, haven't bought a coin in a month, etc.) will usually be a mistake.
8. Make each purchase count. A collection with a handful of WOW coins makes a better impression than ones with lots of so-so coins. Quality always trumps quantity in collecting just about anything.
9. There are times when a collector cannot find something to add to his collection or cannot afford to do so. Times like these can lead to a collector exiting from the hobby. Find a way to remain tied to numismatics. Coin club attendance, going to local coin shows, internet surfing, etc. help. What does the trick for me is my library---I use it nearly every day, and constantly learn things about history, design, mining, economics, famous collections of the past, etc. Assembling it fundamentally changed my view of numismatics and caused me to shift my collecting focus to early federal coinage and historical mint medals. In fact, I also now collect rare numismatic books, auction catalogs, and ephemera. I would likely give up my coins before parting with my numismatic library.
10. Plan on spending 5 years to acquire the knowledge that a 'smart' collector has.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Tom
Short answer is yes to all the above.......
I figured out pretty quick that there is no way I can learn everything about every type of coin. I followed the advice you have already mentioned, "Collect what you like or buy what you like,"
and decided on Capped Bust Half Dollars as my primary field of study. There was no online community specific for the series so with the help of many very knowledgeable collectors and dealers we created one for everyone to use. I feel the site is the best online resource for CBHD's on the web at this point in time, is it better than the books? No, not even close, but it gives you access to mentors in the series.
I have been learning about coins almost my entire life, since I was about 5 or 6 years old (1975-76). I didn't figure out that I wanted to "Major" in CHBD's until about 2007. What you have learned about coins so far is your foundation, just like college is a foundation for a career, use your foundations and start working on the rest of the structure.
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>Sell some coins. The knowledge gained will be immeasurable. >>
Yes, TDN nailed it, this changes everything. I would add: Go to shows, any size show, and buy and sell.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
Read more books...
I would try to maximize every purchase in terms of quality of the coin and think less about cost.
Alot of self examination of my own coins, examination of dealer stock is required.
In time it was shocking how woeful some of the choices that I have made.
Thanks again for the help
TDN's advice is excellent. When I started selling a few duplicates I looked at my collection more as a potential buyer would. I did things differently after that.
Experience only comes one way. There are some tricks that you can use to skip ahead a few grades. One is to be open-minded and realize that you can learn something from almost anyone. Next is to read, read, read. I'd add that establishing a very good relationship with one or two people in the hobby is more important than sort-of knowing dozens. A great dealer or knowledgable fellow collector can be a tremendous asset.
Finally, realize that a good photographer can make average coins look great and great coins sizzle. Many of the color subtleties and fine details are actually much easier to appreciate in a photo. Unless viewed in really perfect conditions with good light and a loupe, most of my collection looks better on the computer monitor. Some photos get juiced and light can be used in many ways to make certain coins really pop. Don't get discouraged. You might discover that what you are collecting is as good as anything else.
Go to a few shows too. There is no substitute for seeing a lot of holdered coins in one place. I'd recommend gaining in-depth knowledge of one favorite series before branching out too.
But TDN's advice is the best.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
In this pursuit you'll find that buying coins cheap is very easy but getting full value
when you sell is hard work. When you can buy something cheap you can use it to
improve your collection.
It takes knowledge and time to build a collection.
<< <i>There are three main areas: grading skill, connections, market knowledge. Connections are more about people skills, and treating others well, but not being a total patsy. Long term relationships are worth a lot, though with dealers, spending money goes a long way towards developing that relationship. Someone with a limited budget can join local or national clubs and network that way.
Grading skill is something that a person can work on. Images are ok, but in person coins are better. There are also paid classes and seminars, and if a person is going to put in serious money, the cost of these classes is well worth it. A mentor can help a great deal, though a bad mentor can be worse than going it alone. Market knowledge is about which coins are hard to find, which coins are almost always available and the prices they typically trade at. That's where that first suggestion of trying to sell some coins can be very useful. If a person has an aptitude for numbers, pouring over auction results and perhaps compiling some data can be a way to go.
So work on all three, grading skill, connections, market knowledge. Look at lots of coins or at least images of coins. Study the hammer prices. Join clubs to develop relationships, if spending a lot isn't in the cards. >>
Excellent summary above. A mentor can also give you pointers re dealers which you may find helpful, others you should best avoid, and why. A mentor can also evaluate a potential purchase, explaining why he / she likes / doesn't like said coin. I have found this to also be a valuable learning experience.
It's always a good idea to have someone you trust who knows more than you do, look at a potential coin purchase. But before you get to this point, you should have looked at quite a few coins and feel somewhat comfortable with your own grading skills.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Thanks again.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Filling a 7070 album can be a lot of fun-I suggest at least XF coins, and maybe a lower grade like fine for the early expensive coins. Stay away from whizzed, harshly cleaned, beat up, low grade, scratched, holed, repaired, damaged, etc., coins, as these will be tougher to sell then better coins. If you overpay for a great coin you may still come out a winner or will not lose too much on it if you ever want to sell it. If you overpay for a junk coin you probably won't win and possibly take a big loss or worse, never sell it. JMO
Bob
Roll searching (for free silver, basically). Go to the bank, buy some rolls of halves, separate the silver, return the Cu-Ni to the bank, sell the silver elsewhere (this can tie-in with your first bit of advice re: sell some coins).
College grads are typically young, with lots of time on their hands. If you are already employed that's great, but I'm betting your hourly wage is less than say the average 30-40 year old. So before you climb the corporate ladder and your time gets precious, maybe you could spare a few hours a week searching rolls. If you're unemployed then you definitely have time to hunt.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5