Highly suspicious advertisement- potentially stolen coins?
daOnlyBG
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I've been looking for junk silver (half dollars, mostly) to buy at discount, so I decided to pay Craigslist a visit. Though I've done a number of successful deals on there (by mostly doing each deal at a highly secured location), I usually don't resort to that venue for numismatic collecting. Anyway, my curiosity got the best of me, and I typed in the search bar, "silver coins."
Eventually, I found a listing for a coin collection that someone wanted to sell. It read like this:
"I have a rare antic collection of over 30-50 coins
Any silver dollar dated after1836
half dollars from 1794 to 1836
10 dollar gold pieces from 1795 to1804
some gold pieces
canadian silver coins
any foreign coinsup to silver dollar size
Text me...
Thanks!"
Never mind the weird misspelling or grammatical errors, I thought, why not just text the number this person left? And so I did. It was a lady whose former husband (who passed away) left her a coin collection. She wanted $1,000 for it.
Yes. $1,000.
According to her texts, she thought they were worth $5,000, but just wanted $1,000 for them. I thought, wow- if this person could meet me in a neutral location, I'd gladly buy the coins. I even told her that I'd pay more than $1,000, as the coins are (most likely) worth a great deal more.
Here's where things get strange- I told her that I work for a retailer in a huge mall, and that if she'd like to bring the coins, I could get a better look at them there and give her a very honest price. I would even offer security to escort her to the store if that would make her feel more comfortable. If she didn't want to do that, I would go up to her suburb (30-40 min away) and check out her coins there, as long as it was a neutral place. I would, either way, pay her in cash.
Long pause.
Her text: "I just talk to my husband and he said no meet on neutral place. Only in my house. Don't make complicated at that"
I inferred the following: her English is a bit rough, so she's probably foreign, and that she is now remarried- if her story about the deceased husband is true.
This immediately drew a red flag- if her coins are legit, why wouldn't she want to meet me somewhere? Why at her house? It's not safe for me, and it's definitely not safe for her, either (imagine if I was a psycho with a gun or something). So, I patiently told her, "With all due respect, ma'am, I'm not trying to make it complicated, I am just trying to be safe for both me and you. I could offer you much more than $1,000 for these coins, but showing up to a stranger's house over the internet isn't exactly safe. I hope you could reconsider. We could meet at a bank or a police station if that makes you feel more comfortable. You don't have much to lose."
Her response: "Just forget it. Don't bother."
So, here's what I'm thinking:
1. She'd rather take less money for a high risk of some internet person showing up to her house, which is really safe for no one, rather than take an extra precaution and go to a neutral zone.
2. When asked if the coins were certified, she said yes; but later, when I asked which ones, she said she couldn't tell, because she doesn't know "Where the papers are."
3. I asked her for pictures of the coins- she said she doesn't do pictures.
4. I've been very reasonable with her, but she's been quick to dismiss me.
5. She's selling what could be tens of thousands of dollars' worth in numismatic coins. She just wants $1,000 for them. Even if she didn't know their worth, they'd be more than $1,000 in melt at a jeweler's store or any other place that says "We Buy Gold."
I realized that this person could be sitting on a load of stolen coins. Perhaps she even thought that I was an investigator or something. Well, I'm not, but I am interested in reporting this, because this is a very shady deal- actually, this is legitimately the first shady dealing I've ran into on Craigslist, as I've said before- my past experience has been mostly positive.
My question to you guys on the Forums-
(1) What would you do if you were in my position? Report this? Maybe give the contact info to local authorities?
(2) Every now and then I hear about stolen coins in the Chicagoland area. Does anyone have more information about these incidents?
Thanks in advance!
Eventually, I found a listing for a coin collection that someone wanted to sell. It read like this:
"I have a rare antic collection of over 30-50 coins
Any silver dollar dated after1836
half dollars from 1794 to 1836
10 dollar gold pieces from 1795 to1804
some gold pieces
canadian silver coins
any foreign coinsup to silver dollar size
Text me...
Thanks!"
Never mind the weird misspelling or grammatical errors, I thought, why not just text the number this person left? And so I did. It was a lady whose former husband (who passed away) left her a coin collection. She wanted $1,000 for it.
Yes. $1,000.
According to her texts, she thought they were worth $5,000, but just wanted $1,000 for them. I thought, wow- if this person could meet me in a neutral location, I'd gladly buy the coins. I even told her that I'd pay more than $1,000, as the coins are (most likely) worth a great deal more.
Here's where things get strange- I told her that I work for a retailer in a huge mall, and that if she'd like to bring the coins, I could get a better look at them there and give her a very honest price. I would even offer security to escort her to the store if that would make her feel more comfortable. If she didn't want to do that, I would go up to her suburb (30-40 min away) and check out her coins there, as long as it was a neutral place. I would, either way, pay her in cash.
Long pause.
Her text: "I just talk to my husband and he said no meet on neutral place. Only in my house. Don't make complicated at that"
I inferred the following: her English is a bit rough, so she's probably foreign, and that she is now remarried- if her story about the deceased husband is true.
This immediately drew a red flag- if her coins are legit, why wouldn't she want to meet me somewhere? Why at her house? It's not safe for me, and it's definitely not safe for her, either (imagine if I was a psycho with a gun or something). So, I patiently told her, "With all due respect, ma'am, I'm not trying to make it complicated, I am just trying to be safe for both me and you. I could offer you much more than $1,000 for these coins, but showing up to a stranger's house over the internet isn't exactly safe. I hope you could reconsider. We could meet at a bank or a police station if that makes you feel more comfortable. You don't have much to lose."
Her response: "Just forget it. Don't bother."
So, here's what I'm thinking:
1. She'd rather take less money for a high risk of some internet person showing up to her house, which is really safe for no one, rather than take an extra precaution and go to a neutral zone.
2. When asked if the coins were certified, she said yes; but later, when I asked which ones, she said she couldn't tell, because she doesn't know "Where the papers are."
3. I asked her for pictures of the coins- she said she doesn't do pictures.
4. I've been very reasonable with her, but she's been quick to dismiss me.
5. She's selling what could be tens of thousands of dollars' worth in numismatic coins. She just wants $1,000 for them. Even if she didn't know their worth, they'd be more than $1,000 in melt at a jeweler's store or any other place that says "We Buy Gold."
I realized that this person could be sitting on a load of stolen coins. Perhaps she even thought that I was an investigator or something. Well, I'm not, but I am interested in reporting this, because this is a very shady deal- actually, this is legitimately the first shady dealing I've ran into on Craigslist, as I've said before- my past experience has been mostly positive.
My question to you guys on the Forums-
(1) What would you do if you were in my position? Report this? Maybe give the contact info to local authorities?
(2) Every now and then I hear about stolen coins in the Chicagoland area. Does anyone have more information about these incidents?
Thanks in advance!
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"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>Don't let the thought of getting some awesome coins cloud your good sense. It's a scam! >>
Most definitely!
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Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
half dollars from 1794 to 1836
10 dollar gold pieces from 1795 to1804
some gold pieces
Canadian silver coins..." - sounds like a list ripped from a buy cheap hotel/newspaper operation.
How do you know the "neutral" place is really hers? How do you know she has coins? No pics etc.
"...I realized that this person could be sitting on a load of stolen coins..." - OP
She knows you intend to show with cash - maybe she is sitting on something else loaded - like a gun.
"...imagine if I SHE is a psycho with a gun or something..."! You don't know if that is her husband, fist or second, right?
Eric the pessimist; maybe I am paranoid.
<< <i>"...Any silver dollar dated after1836
half dollars from 1794 to 1836
10 dollar gold pieces from 1795 to1804
some gold pieces
Canadian silver coins..." - sounds like a list ripped from a buy cheap hotel/newspaper operation.
How do you know the "neutral" place is really hers? How do you know she has coins? No pics etc.
"...I realized that this person could be sitting on a load of stolen coins..." - OP
She knows you intend to show with cash - maybe she is sitting on something else loaded - like a gun.
"...imagine if I SHE is a psycho with a gun or something..."! You don't know if that is her husband, fist or second, right?
Eric the pessimist; maybe I am paranoid. >>
I wouldn't call that "pessimism," I'd call it "realism." What skipped my mind is the most obvious: she may not even have coins to begin with. Again, I do feel like calling the local authorities- she said in her texts that someone would be coming by on Tuesday to take a look at the coins. If that's true, I'd rather they didn't find out the hard way that this is a scam. Would just calling the local police station do the trick?
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No clue if you're talking to a little old lady or an inmate but that's where the wording came from.
Here's one of the albums on ebay with that wording:
Ebay for the folder she took the words from
2. When asked if the coins were certified, she said yes; but later, when I asked which ones, she said she couldn't tell, because she doesn't know "Where the papers are."
How you separate the assumed slabs from "the papers"?
3. I asked her for pictures of the coins- she said she doesn't do pictures.
No coins/fakes etc.
4. I've been very reasonable with her, but she's been quick to dismiss me.
Perhaps because of your questions she thought you might show loaded as well. Refusal to meet in neutral place = quick dismal - you are not the easy mark being sought.
Best wishes and be careful!
Eric
After seeing where she got the wording it could be a clueless person with a folder like that.
Flags:
Even a clueless one could count instead of saying 30-50.
Even texting is odd for a genuine little old lady, more likely an easy way to not need to talk so you think it's a little old lady.
Not being willing to meet someplace.
It's still odd, they don't know if you'll bring cash or a gun or a buddy or a cop and they'd be giving an address.
Of course it could be an empty house where they wait to roll you
Now hey dig this: a lot of folks I know, who never ever carried guns, are now packing heat. They've only been carrying for a year or so, but they've been to the range enough times and they are confident enough to reveal at the gas pump when a suspicious character approaches. All I'm saying is, you gotta watch your @$$ and perhaps what USED TO BE OK is no longer a wise move
Amat Colligendo Focum
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Well, I'm 99% sure of one thing- this is a pretty shady deal. If it were an older lady who didn't know what her stuff was worth, you'd think she'd still be open to the idea of meeting in a neutral place. In the greater Chicago area, there's usually a bank every 2-3 blocks. If traveling that far is a hardship for whatever reason, she could always send her new husband (?) or someone else on her behalf. For an additional thousands of dollars, I couldn't imagine a single rational thought as to why she wouldn't take that offer.
My guess is along the stuff you guys have been suggesting- this is a robbery waiting to happen. 30-50 coins? All the coins she mentioned in the list amount to way more than 50 coins. I'm confident I gave her enough doubt that her coins are only worth $1,000- a clueless person would at least shop around for a better quote.
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Above board usually results in above ground!
Eric
Edit spelling - "beard" for "board" - person you could have had met may have had a beard tho!
I think whoever it is literally read it from that folder, it's not a list of the coins it's a list of what fits that dollar size album.
Those folders say:
"Coins that can be mounted in this album"
ANY Silver Dollar dated after 1836
Half Dollars from 1794 to 1836
10 Dollar Gold pieces from 1795 to 1804
20 Dollar Gold Pieces
Canadian Silver Dollars
Foreign gold coins up to Silver Dollar size
Mixed foreign coins up to Silver Dollar Size.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
IMO, you should alert the authorities that you think it's a trap or that you think they have stolen goods. Both seem reasonable based on the events that occurred.
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
<< <i>Above board usually results in above ground!
Good one, Eric. That oughtta be in someone's sig line.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>
<< <i>Above board usually results in above ground!
Good one, Eric. That oughtta be in someone's sig line. >>
Thanks
Eric
Actually I wouldn't even have texted in the first place.
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Just tell her you will be happy to show up, with some of your "friends Bruno and Guido" just to make sure all goes well.
......I collect old stuff......
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I doubt the cops would do anything about a potential robbery based on suspicions. They probably hear about Craigs List all the time.
Lance.
<< <i>There are no coins. And I'd wager that if you agreed to meet at her house she would come up with a better place for the robbery, like in a car or some remote place.
I doubt the cops would do anything about a potential robbery based on suspicions. They probably hear about Craigs List all the time.
Lance. >>
There are so many red flags in the OP scenario the only way to see more red would be at a special convention of red paint salesmen whilst wearing red sunglasses. Wraparound ones.
Coin's for sale/trade.
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Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>I think the OP as well as many of us well-meaning folk suffers from "want-to-believe" syndrome. >>
Not really; once the shady stuff began happening, I didn't want to believe the offer was genuine. I only posted on the Forum to seek advice on what to do, or if anyone had a similar experience, or if anyone knows info on Chicago coin theft- that's all.
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<< <i>Maybe she can't walk, I can't believe you called the cops on someones grandma! >>
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Hire an armed security guard to accompany you.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>hit the "flag for removal" button and call it a day. better yet contact local police, explain, and offer to go in on a sting operation. >>
Maybe the part about flagging is premature. I would bring the post to the attention of the LEO in the municipality where the seller is located. Except you didn't advance to the point of obtaining the address, even for the sake of providing a lead for LEO or getting some intel from LEO on that address or the occupants.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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<< <i>Her text: "I just talk to my husband and he said no meet on neutral place. Only in my house. Don't make complicated at that" >>
Old Ladies do no use cell phones and they most definitely do not text.
She is looking for ignorant bargain hunters to pay something for nothing. Once she, or her husband, learned that you knew about coins, they didn't want to deal with you.
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<< <i>Oh heck no.....scam and you will get robbed >>
no gun needed.
<< <i>At the very least, you may want to consider informing your local police cyber crimes department about this and your concerns. >>
Personally, if I wasn't going to partake of the deal, I'd MMOB and keep my nose out of it.
<< <i>MY guess is that she has a Library of Coins album full of Chinese crown-sized fakes. She is likely Chinese herself.
She is looking for ignorant bargain hunters to pay something for nothing. Once she, or her husband, learned that you knew about coins, they didn't want to deal with you. >>
This...which is what I referred to by "Asian fake coins scam" in my previous post.
I've seen variations of this before on CL and elsewhere.
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Once the deal is made (or rejected) he leaves as quickly as he can. Usually this stuff is bullion or raw coins, rarely is it slabbed material. Sometimes the coin club auction will be flooded with a lot of this material as a result of a deal he made which he is simply going to flip at the coin club. If slabbed, he usually likes to crack them all (he says many in the old rattler holders, NGC fatties, or old green holders will upgrade with some needing a dip) and resubmit to the TPG of his choice or TTR raw coin service. We never see this material at a coin club meeting. If nice, and a coin he keeps it will be slabbed and inside his case at a show at retail. He says he has met a lot of people who are waste of time thinking Ikes are silver dollars and now spends more effort screening these offers.
He will contact the person via a throw down (Walmart) phone and try to gather as much data as he can to see if its worth his time. A price will be negotiated and the meeting is set.
I think in this case the person wanting to sell a collection they believe is worth 5000 for 1000 would raise a redflag. You might be walking into a mugging. Or it could be the collection is nowhere worth a 1000.
Don't you want to meet this person at a Starbucks or somewhere and see if this deal is for real? Many would not be able to resist.
As far as what I would do - I don't do these deals and just don't care to engage in shady activity. I have had too many people come up to my table at shows saying "I have a collection of rare coins to sell" and then they dump out a bag of junk - circulated Ikes, common wheats, maybe some worn 90%, and some cupro nickel proof set they overpaid for.
<< <i>
<< <i>Don't let the thought of getting some awesome coins cloud your good sense. It's a scam! >>
Most definitely! >>
What they said. The risk is not worth it.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.