I don't care if the coin isn't over-graded or over-priced, the seller gave a 14 day return so, IMO, that holds for ANY reason. eBay's response to that is garbage.
so if the seller said you waited 2-3 days to long for a return... and the auction ended on april 14th... when did you contact the seller for a return ?
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< In my opinion, a return policy means a return is accepted for any reason so long the coin is returned in its holder in the same condition sent, unless if stated otherwise. This return should be accepted. It's doesn't matter if the OP thinks they can grade better than a TPG. He doesn't like the coin. He is within his rights to not like the coin at the stated grade. We've all seen coins in top tier TPG holders we don't like or don't like at the grade. >>
Was this thread started on April 1? Because you had me going for a while when you (as the buyer) stated you were unable to return a coin in an ebay auction offering a 14 day return privilege for a full refund, especially from a seller with a 35 feedback!
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>one of the biggest problems with ebay is they do not have provisions for friendly returns.. and opening a SNAD should be a LAST resort in a case where the coin is significantly NOT as described, not in a situation where you dont agree with the grade. in that case, you politely ask the seller for return instructions. once you put the seller on the hot seat, dont expect them to bend over backwards to do anything for you. its an awful expensive lesson, but next time, if the seller offers a return policy, use it much wore wisely. opening a SNAD case for an item that you dont agree with the grade of, has nothing to do with the description of the item, it has to do with you not agreeing with the grade. im surprised as ebay almost never sides with the seller, its sucks but you could have helped the whole process go in another direction >>
My first step was to politely ask to which he told me that I waited too long to contact him. This was two or three days after I received the coin. After that he stopped responding so I filed a case.
I think the original claim could have gone the other way if it was handled by a different person at ebay but this person might have looked at it as it was "graded X" and it says "x" so it is what it said. The same person might have decided differently if the claim only said "it wasn't described well".
Anyway it says 14 day returns accepted so they should accept a return within 14 days.
<< <i>Pretty shocking experience. Seller had a 14 day return policy and after seeing the coin in hand it was clearly over graded. I contacted them for a return after 2 days and they refused to honor their policy. eBay customer support ruled in favor of the seller in the case saying that since the coin was in fact graded as stated in the listing that the seller is not in breach and that they have no obligation to force the seller to honor the return policy.
Never expected that the return policies are nothing but words on the page. It will certainly prevent me from ever buying a high value coin on eBay ever again. Only saving grace is that the coin is very nice just not for the assigned grade. >>
Ahhh.
So you're not in agreement with what the "TPG" assigned grade is? Which, IMO, is not reason enough to return the coin.
If the seller hid some scratch or other defect on a "raw" coin, then its a different story. However, not everybody is going to agree with the TPG's assigned grade which should be taken up with the TPG.
Buying graded coins does come with some drawbacks.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Totally Agree.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Seriously, so I should not be able to use a stated return policy because it was graded by NGC? Not following the logic. >>
Huh?
You bought it because it "was" NGC.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Do a paypal chargeback, or a chargeback with your credit card company. That will get eBay's attention. >>
This could have reverse effects as well.
Such as, what would be the reason for the PayPal chargeback? Not as Described?
Doing a chargeback with the credit card company also needs a reason and from what I understand, PayPal doesn't particularly care for folks to do credit card chargebacks.
PayPal priviledges and and eBay NARU could be the result.
I'm just sayin.
BTW, overgrading is in the eye of the beholder which is why TPG's exist in the first place.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>According to the original auction on eBay, posted in this thread, the auction states "14 days, money back, buyer pays return shipping".
Since that is what the seller stated in the auction, he should live up to it and allow the return.
Not allowing the return means the seller lied when he promised a return privilege in the auction.
If you don't believe that the seller lied, then what would you call it?
The buyer relied on this statement in his bidding, in that if he didn't like the coin, he could return it.
However, if the auction had said "no returns on slabbed coins", then a return privilege would not have been promised in the auction. >>
Exactly. Set aside personal feelings. And focus on the return policy. OP could have said "I'm running short on cash. Gotta return it." Good enough. Lance.
Seems it sold 2 times in as many days. And the seller should take it back. Don't you want it at that price ? What do you feel the value of such a coin is, in hand ?
I would ask the ebay rep if they thought a professional grading service had made a mistake or could have made an error in judgement. Obviously, they couldn't answer that question. Then asked them if they are aware that the grades a professional grading service assign to coins are only an opinion. If they agree to the top two, ask them why you're not entitled to your opinion of the coin since you're the one who is writing the check.
I seriously think the TPG should step in and straighten this out with ebay since they, among all people, understand how their system works.
And for the supporters of eBay's decision, I have coins to sell you in TGS holders that might have a return policy.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>Was this thread started on April 1? Because you had me going for a while when you (as the buyer) stated you were unable to return a coin in an ebay auction offering a 14 day return privilege for a full refund, especially from a seller with a 35 feedback! >>
Many eBay problems could easily be avoided if people would think about what they're doing before bidding. Let's see here...
1. Auction by seller with a total of six positives from selling (and only one coin in the past 10 years). 2. Only three feedbacks left from both buying and selling, with one of them a negative. 3. A description that looks like it was written by someone with no discernable background in coins. 4. Marginal pictures included in listing. 5. An expensive coin with an opening bid acknowledged by the buyer to be substantially below the buyer's estimation of current value.
14 day return means you can return it for any or no reason. TPG coins are routinely sold under NO RETURNS conditions in which case you get to argue with the grading company but if the seller offered returns and wouldn't accept them, you should take all actions possible, including a chargeback.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>I've heard of the dog whisperer and the horse whisperer. Now a WHITE ELEPHANT whisperer So, in seriousness , despite the return policy , who thinks the price is too high for the coin ? >>
Exactly! Why do two coins of the same date, grade and TGS sell higher or lower than the other at same auction? Because the coins were seen in hand before the auction. Can't do that with ebay unless the seller and buyer can get together before the sale. Mindless ebay/people!
They probably should escalate this problem and all jump on the elevator to the top floor again.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Seller refused to honor his return policy, reason for wanting to return is irrelevent. Buyer should have contacted ebay about this instead of filing a claim. Going the SNAD claim route buyer should have claimed that seller misrepresented value by quoting the price guide a PCGS graded coin, not an NGC graded coin. Price guide on NGC site shows much lower prices.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Although ebay is forcing a return policy on sellers like Nordstroms (except with the large profit margin/markup), I don't think ebay should be used as an approval service. --Jerry
<< <i>Looks like to me you wanted a PCGS quality 58 for an NGC price. While the seller should honor their policy you got what you paid for. If you want a PCGS quality 58 you stand a much better chance getting one when you buy a pcgs holdered coin. >>
Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Looks like to me you wanted a PCGS quality 58 for an NGC price. While the seller should honor their policy you got what you paid for. If you want a PCGS quality 58 you stand a much better chance getting one when you buy a pcgs holdered coin. >>
Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! !
HH >>
This return policy is one reason why many ebay sellers are selling less and less. I am not in favor of it. I am good with a not=as-recieved policy but ebay wants you to take returnes like a retail store without the retail profit margins. --Jerry
<< <i>Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! ! >>
Yes, and if you don't want a hassle when trying to return something, you should buy from sellers whose reputations indicate that you won't have a hassle. Of course, if you're looking to buy a $6K coin for $3.5k, your options in that area may be somewhat limited.
buyer most likely gave seller his reason for wanting to return (shouldn't matter, a return policy is a return policy). buyer should have just said not happy with the coin because your decription said "mint condition" and I do not agree.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Actually if you had not opened the "Item not as described" case and just told the seller you wanted to return things might of went different. Those cases basically call the seller a liar and nobody likes to be called that.
BTW I personally feel eBay has messed up the return part of dealing with coins but it's now their rules we are all playing by. >>
I did notify the seller and he refused the return saying I waited to long 2-3 days).
My point in this thread was to inform others of a policy interpretation which I clearly made so as to help others. Seems like that's done. >>
Thank You!
I'll keep this in mind the next time I bid $3,500 (followed by two other unknown amounts) on an NGC slabbed coin on eBay from this seller.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>so if the seller said you waited 2-3 days to long for a return... and the auction ended on april 14th... when did you contact the seller for a return ? >>
Good Question.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>In my opinion, a return policy means a return is accepted for any reason so long the coin is returned in its holder in the same condition sent, unless if stated otherwise. This return should be accepted. It's doesn't matter if the OP thinks they can grade better than a TPG. He doesn't like the coin. He is within his rights to not like the coin at the stated grade. We've all seen coins in top tier TPG holders we don't like or don't like at the grade. >>
+1
Frankly, after all the horror stories I've heard with ebay forcing returns and refunds even if NO return policy is stated, I'm very surprised they ruled against you. Can you post ebay's exact response to you here?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It is such a shame that ebay does not have any real competition. Hey Google, you have the resources, isn't there some profit to be made here.
And the comment about the buyer knowing more than 3 professional graders is about as asinine as it gets. Does that poster make all his purchases sight unseen?
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Did the buyer want to return the coin because it was "not as described?" I see that SNAD referred to in several posts but not in anything by the OP. Was it edited out?
After all, the item is as described, an NGC AU58 1842 Eagle. Well EXCEPT for the "appears to be in mint condition" part.
What were the dates? Auction ended Apr 14 (Apr 15 in EDT). When was return requested?
<< <i>There is more to this story. Seller has to take it back.
And yes to the previous comment, they make you take back anything, even with no returns allowed. 14 day return..... come on.
So what is the real story I guess would be my question. Post what eBay said to you. Maybe that will shed some light. >>
something does not add up. I've been on eBay for 13 years & never heard of such "baloney," unless you filed a SNAD, that you lost. >>
Auction ended on the 14th, received the coin on the 17th, notified the seller on the 17th (I thought I waited a few days, guess not from the message records), the 22nd and the 24th. Started the SNAD case on the 25th, escalated on the 30th, notified on the 3rd of the decision.
On the 17th he said that he would refund the money. I followed up asking for the return address as it wasn't on the package nor was there a packing slip (he didn't use Paypal shipping). He never responded, hence my 22nd and 24th notifications. I started my thread on the grade on the 18th after I notified him of my decision. Speaking with Customer Service they again communicated that they have no accountability to enforce a return policy under the Buyer Protection program.
All of this is entirely irrelevant as the point in starting this thread wasn't to seek sympathy, or ask who is right/wrong in the matter. It was to inform others of the fact that eBay will not support the buyer in a case where a return policy is offered in an auction but not supported in practice by the seller. Mission accomplished.
No return address or packing slip? Did he even use tracking with signtaure confirmation per paypal instructions for an item with a value >$250.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
eBay has gotten into every aspect of all the auctions on their site by medaling with how one is paid for, what can be written in the title or in the body of an auction and all most everything there is to an auction. They have been changing policy on sellers & buyers alike, like I change my drawers and can not make any one group happy with the out come of disputes. eBay might as well put a banner over every single page that has a disclaimer, " DEAL AT YOUR OWN RISK! " or " BUYER & SELLER BEWARE ".
In the past few years it seems that eBay has added an automatic return policy that unless the seller adds to or completely changes the wording eBay has all ready in place a buyer thinks they have the right to return anything for any reason they want. In the case of the OP he felt and so do I that the seller went with the standard return policy of eBay and the seller didn't change it and should take returns and give refunds.
BUT
The OP should have paid more attention to the pictures, description and for a purchase in this amount asked the seller to explain in his words the return policy. Sellers on eBay have so many different rules about returns from no questions asked to no TPGs will be accepted for return. My favorite was a seller I saw once that offered a policy on raw coins that you could buy the coin at the grade he said and send it in to a TPG and if it came back not what he said you could send it back no matter how long, now that takes a set to advertise that. I did not see any negs in his feedback just praise.
You know, since you have the money invested in the coin all ready, spend a little more and crack it out and send it to PCGS and get a grade.
The fact that the coin is in a TPG holder is irrelevant.
The buyer's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The seller's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The auction has an unconditional 14 day return policy, no? Where is the ambiguity in this? Items can be returned for any reason or no reason at all.
Like 99% of disputes that get aired out here on the boards, the best option is to first, make sure you're right. Check your facts! Second, demand satisfaction, escalate the case to supervisors / superiors if needed, and most of all remain 100% polite and professional throughout the entire process. Irrational or unreasonable people often don't get the same quality of service as pushy, rude, or threatening ones. Not saying you are, or that you did, but it's a pretty common problem on this planet.
If nothing else works, go to the credit card company. They'll side with you if you remain calm and can present a rational argument.
You'll have more ammo with eBay and the CC people if you've already returned the item. Otherwise they'll just tell you to call back once he has received it. Make durn sure you get a signature from the receiving party. >>
"The OP should have paid more attention to the pictures"
The pictures were shockingly bad considering the price tag. That would have been warning enough. I think the seller knew enough to play the game and went fishing for somebody to bite thinking it might crossover to a superior holder at the same grade and filing the SNAD was playing right into the sellers hands if that was the case.
I was selling a coin, described properly, and without a return policy. Ebay forced the return upon me! >>
Same here and it was a AU58 graded by PCGS and he said they did not get it right so he wanted a discount i said no send back the coin and i never got back my 1913-S type2 Bufflo back, Tracking says delivered but i never rec it, No one knows where it is. "F" ebay but they took the $$$ back so i'am out the coin and the $$$ got a love it.
<< <i>If you paid by credit card you can get a refund. >>
This. As long as you paid via PayPal funded by a credit card, simply file a chargeback through the credit card company. They have no desire to mediate eBay sales so they pretty much automatically honor the chargeback. Supply them with some supporting info like the stated return policy shown in a screenshot, etc. and it will be pretty much open and shut.
That said, I do think you're picking nits on the grade...53 vs. 58 is a judgement call to begin with, and frankly I pretty much automatically assume that NGC stuff (particularly if offered on eBay) compared to that of our hosts is usually one grade generous at least. If you were expecting $6K PCGS quality at $3K NGC money then my sympathies are somewhat limited...but the return is indeed enforceable if you go through the CC company.
1.) Appeal eBay decision; 2.) Open a case with PayPal (this is separate); 3.) Do a charge back with your credit card company.
If the return policy says that you have 14 days to return the coin, then he must give you a refund if you comply with the terms of the listing or he is in breach of contract.
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
I agree....Should be no return priv's on top tier third party graded coins. >>
I disagree with you. The seller offered an unconditional 14 day return privilege (i.e. there were no terms or limitations). He is obligated to honor his own return privilege. If the coin was marked as not having a return privilege, the story might be different (and at least the OP would have had some notice that this issue would could or would present itself).
The fact that the coin is in a TPG holder is irrelevant.
The buyer's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The seller's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The auction has an unconditional 14 day return policy, no? Where is the ambiguity in this? Items can be returned for any reason or no reason at all.
Like 99% of disputes that get aired out here on the boards, the best option is to first, make sure you're right. Check your facts! Second, demand satisfaction, escalate the case to supervisors / superiors if needed, and most of all remain 100% polite and professional throughout the entire process. Irrational or unreasonable people often don't get the same quality of service as pushy, rude, or threatening ones. Not saying you are, or that you did, but it's a pretty common problem on this planet.
If nothing else works, go to the credit card company. They'll side with you if you remain calm and can present a rational argument.
You'll have more ammo with eBay and the CC people if you've already returned the item. Otherwise they'll just tell you to call back once he has received it. Make durn sure you get a signature from the receiving party. >>
<< <i>The seller offered a 14-day return policy and you attempted to use the policy. If ebay will not stand by you then go directly to your credit card and I think you may win your case. >>
ebay will quickly back off ...that is my experience .... that is the way complain to your cc company...
eBay forced the 14 day return on sellers basically and there was a lot of discussion when it happened that buyers would be buying items and shopping them around and if not sold then returning. Guess what it happened and this thread proves that it does not always work.
Most reputable sellers are going to give returns with no questions asked except get it back like it was sent. But don't be surprised if you’re not asked back to the party if they suspect a buyer of doing the above.
Get in touch with the guy/ gal in charge of returns and explain the situation.
A 14 day return is just that, no reasons need be given, you can return it for any reason. No questions asked. Just because eBay said that the coin was as described does't mean squat. The images are terrible, anything could easily be hidden in the shadows of the holder. Maybe NGC missed something and over graded the coin ( it's been known to happen... as well as other TPG companies ). Remember, grades are nothing more than opinions.
eBay has to reverse its decision and have the seller take that coin back. The seller seems as if he's trying to pull something here, if not, then fine. Just accept your own terms for returns.
Looking forward to a better outcome for you.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Comments
Besides, the photos are crappy to begin with....
jom
<< In my opinion, a return policy means a return is accepted for any reason so long the coin is returned in its holder in the same condition sent, unless if stated otherwise. This return should be accepted. It's doesn't matter if the OP thinks they can grade better than a TPG. He doesn't like the coin. He is within his rights to not like the coin at the stated grade. We've all seen coins in top tier TPG holders we don't like or don't like at the grade. >>
I would not spend 3500 on a coin
Where it did not specifically say
May return for any reason
I cannot find that wording
OP should escalate this with ebay. He will win.
Lance.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>one of the biggest problems with ebay is they do not have provisions for friendly returns.. and opening a SNAD should be a LAST resort in a case where the coin is significantly NOT as described, not in a situation where you dont agree with the grade. in that case, you politely ask the seller for return instructions. once you put the seller on the hot seat, dont expect them to bend over backwards to do anything for you. its an awful expensive lesson, but next time, if the seller offers a return policy, use it much wore wisely. opening a SNAD case for an item that you dont agree with the grade of, has nothing to do with the description of the item, it has to do with you not agreeing with the grade. im surprised as ebay almost never sides with the seller, its sucks but you could have helped the whole process go in another direction >>
My first step was to politely ask to which he told me that I waited too long to contact him. This was two or three days after I received the coin. After that he stopped responding so I filed a case.
Latin American Collection
Anyway it says 14 day returns accepted so they should accept a return within 14 days.
<< <i>Pretty shocking experience. Seller had a 14 day return policy and after seeing the coin in hand it was clearly over graded. I contacted them for a return after 2 days and they refused to honor their policy. eBay customer support ruled in favor of the seller in the case saying that since the coin was in fact graded as stated in the listing that the seller is not in breach and that they have no obligation to force the seller to honor the return policy.
Never expected that the return policies are nothing but words on the page. It will certainly prevent me from ever buying a high value coin on eBay ever again. Only saving grace is that the coin is very nice just not for the assigned grade. >>
Ahhh.
So you're not in agreement with what the "TPG" assigned grade is? Which, IMO, is not reason enough to return the coin.
If the seller hid some scratch or other defect on a "raw" coin, then its a different story. However, not everybody is going to agree with the TPG's assigned grade which should be taken up with the TPG.
Buying graded coins does come with some drawbacks.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Totally Agree.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Seriously, so I should not be able to use a stated return policy because it was graded by NGC? Not following the logic. >>
Huh?
You bought it because it "was" NGC.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Do a paypal chargeback, or a chargeback with your credit card company. That will get eBay's attention. >>
This could have reverse effects as well.
Such as, what would be the reason for the PayPal chargeback? Not as Described?
Doing a chargeback with the credit card company also needs a reason and from what I understand, PayPal doesn't particularly care for folks to do credit card chargebacks.
PayPal priviledges and and eBay NARU could be the result.
I'm just sayin.
BTW, overgrading is in the eye of the beholder which is why TPG's exist in the first place.
The name is LEE!
Since that is what the seller stated in the auction, he should live up to it and allow the return.
Not allowing the return means the seller lied when he promised a return privilege in the auction.
If you don't believe that the seller lied, then what would you call it?
The buyer relied on this statement in his bidding, in that if he didn't like the coin, he could return it.
However, if the auction had said "no returns on slabbed coins", then a return privilege would not have been promised in the auction.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>According to the original auction on eBay, posted in this thread, the auction states "14 days, money back, buyer pays return shipping".
Since that is what the seller stated in the auction, he should live up to it and allow the return.
Not allowing the return means the seller lied when he promised a return privilege in the auction.
If you don't believe that the seller lied, then what would you call it?
The buyer relied on this statement in his bidding, in that if he didn't like the coin, he could return it.
However, if the auction had said "no returns on slabbed coins", then a return privilege would not have been promised in the auction. >>
Exactly. Set aside personal feelings. And focus on the return policy. OP could have said "I'm running short on cash. Gotta return it." Good enough.
Lance.
Seems it sold 2 times in as many days. And the seller should take it back. Don't you want it at that price ? What do you feel the value of such a coin is, in hand ?
PCGS price guide on AU 55 $10 Eagle 1842
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Then asked them if they are aware that the grades a professional grading service assign to coins are only an opinion.
If they agree to the top two, ask them why you're not entitled to your opinion of the coin since you're the one who is writing the check.
I seriously think the TPG should step in and straighten this out with ebay since they, among all people, understand how their system works.
And for the supporters of eBay's decision, I have coins to sell you in TGS holders that might have a return policy.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Was this thread started on April 1? Because you had me going for a while when you (as the buyer) stated you were unable to return a coin in an ebay auction offering a 14 day return privilege for a full refund, especially from a seller with a 35 feedback! >>
Many eBay problems could easily be avoided if people would think about what they're doing before bidding. Let's see here...
1. Auction by seller with a total of six positives from selling (and only one coin in the past 10 years).
2. Only three feedbacks left from both buying and selling, with one of them a negative.
3. A description that looks like it was written by someone with no discernable background in coins.
4. Marginal pictures included in listing.
5. An expensive coin with an opening bid acknowledged by the buyer to be substantially below the buyer's estimation of current value.
What could possibly go wrong?
in which case you get to argue with the grading company but if the seller offered returns and wouldn't accept them, you
should take all actions possible, including a chargeback.
<< <i>I've heard of the dog whisperer and the horse whisperer. Now a WHITE ELEPHANT whisperer
So, in seriousness , despite the return policy , who thinks the price is too high for the coin ? >>
Exactly! Why do two coins of the same date, grade and TGS sell higher or lower than the other at same auction? Because the coins were seen in hand before the auction. Can't do that with ebay unless the seller and buyer can get together before the sale. Mindless ebay/people!
They probably should escalate this problem and all jump on the elevator to the top floor again.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
Seller refused to honor his return policy, reason for wanting to return is irrelevent. Buyer should have contacted ebay about this instead of filing a claim. Going the SNAD claim route buyer should have claimed that seller misrepresented value by quoting the price guide a PCGS graded coin, not an NGC graded coin. Price guide on NGC site shows much lower prices.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Looks like to me you wanted a PCGS quality 58 for an NGC price. While the seller should honor their policy you got what you paid for. If you want a PCGS quality 58 you stand a much better chance getting one when you buy a pcgs holdered coin. >>
Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like to me you wanted a PCGS quality 58 for an NGC price. While the seller should honor their policy you got what you paid for. If you want a PCGS quality 58 you stand a much better chance getting one when you buy a pcgs holdered coin. >>
Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! !
HH >>
This return policy is one reason why many ebay sellers are selling less and less. I am not in favor of it. I am good with a not=as-recieved policy but ebay wants you to take returnes like a retail store without the retail profit margins. --Jerry
<< <i>Makes no damned difference what the buyer wanted . . . If there's a return policy then it should be honored ! ! ! >>
Yes, and if you don't want a hassle when trying to return something, you should buy from sellers whose reputations indicate that you won't have a hassle. Of course, if you're looking to buy a $6K coin for $3.5k, your options in that area may be somewhat limited.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually if you had not opened the "Item not as described" case and just told the seller you wanted to return things might of went different. Those cases basically call the seller a liar and nobody likes to be called that.
BTW I personally feel eBay has messed up the return part of dealing with coins but it's now their rules we are all playing by. >>
I did notify the seller and he refused the return saying I waited to long 2-3 days).
My point in this thread was to inform others of a policy interpretation which I clearly made so as to help others. Seems like that's done. >>
Thank You!
I'll keep this in mind the next time I bid $3,500 (followed by two other unknown amounts) on an NGC slabbed coin on eBay from this seller.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>so if the seller said you waited 2-3 days to long for a return... and the auction ended on april 14th... when did you contact the seller for a return ? >>
Good Question.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>In my opinion, a return policy means a return is accepted for any reason so long the coin is returned in its holder in the same condition sent, unless if stated otherwise. This return should be accepted. It's doesn't matter if the OP thinks they can grade better than a TPG. He doesn't like the coin. He is within his rights to not like the coin at the stated grade. We've all seen coins in top tier TPG holders we don't like or don't like at the grade. >>
+1
Frankly, after all the horror stories I've heard with ebay forcing returns and refunds even if NO return policy is stated, I'm very surprised they ruled against you. Can you post ebay's exact response to you here?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
And the comment about the buyer knowing more than 3 professional graders is about as asinine as it gets. Does that poster make all his purchases sight unseen?
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
SNAD referred to in several posts but not in anything by the OP. Was it edited out?
After all, the item is as described, an
NGC AU58 1842 Eagle. Well EXCEPT for the "appears to be in mint condition" part.
What were the dates? Auction ended Apr 14 (Apr 15 in EDT). When was return requested?
Let's get all the facts.
<< <i>There is more to this story. Seller has to take it back.
And yes to the previous comment, they make you take back anything, even with no returns allowed. 14 day return..... come on.
So what is the real story I guess would be my question. Post what eBay said to you. Maybe that will shed some light. >>
something does not add up. I've been on eBay for 13 years & never heard of such "baloney," unless you filed a SNAD, that you lost.
<< <i>
<< <i>There is more to this story. Seller has to take it back.
And yes to the previous comment, they make you take back anything, even with no returns allowed. 14 day return..... come on.
So what is the real story I guess would be my question. Post what eBay said to you. Maybe that will shed some light. >>
something does not add up. I've been on eBay for 13 years & never heard of such "baloney," unless you filed a SNAD, that you lost. >>
Auction ended on the 14th, received the coin on the 17th, notified the seller on the 17th (I thought I waited a few days, guess not from the message records), the 22nd and the 24th. Started the SNAD case on the 25th, escalated on the 30th, notified on the 3rd of the decision.
On the 17th he said that he would refund the money. I followed up asking for the return address as it wasn't on the package nor was there a packing slip (he didn't use Paypal shipping). He never responded, hence my 22nd and 24th notifications. I started my thread on the grade on the 18th after I notified him of my decision. Speaking with Customer Service they again communicated that they have no accountability to enforce a return policy under the Buyer Protection program.
All of this is entirely irrelevant as the point in starting this thread wasn't to seek sympathy, or ask who is right/wrong in the matter. It was to inform others of the fact that eBay will not support the buyer in a case where a return policy is offered in an auction but not supported in practice by the seller. Mission accomplished.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>There is more to this story. Seller has to take it back.
And yes to the previous comment, they make you take back anything, even with no returns allowed. 14 day return..... come on.
So what is the real story I guess would be my question. Post what eBay said to you. Maybe that will shed some light. >>
something does not add up. I've been on eBay for 13 years & never heard of such "baloney," unless you filed a SNAD, that you lost. >>
Feepay is hard to figure out. I've been forced to refund on a coin that was cracked out.
"Started the SNAD case on the 25th"
I think right there is why you lost the case , i'm no doubt stating the obvious but it wasn't a SNAD.
'
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>"Started the SNAD case on the 25th"
I think right there is why you lost the case , i'm no doubt stating the obvious but it wasn't a SNAD.
' >>
Shudda been a SNAG. Significantly not as graded.
eBay has gotten into every aspect of all the auctions on their site by medaling with how one is paid for,
what can be written in the title or in the body of an auction and all most everything there is to an auction.
They have been changing policy on sellers & buyers alike, like I change my drawers and can not make any
one group happy with the out come of disputes. eBay might as well put a banner over every single page that
has a disclaimer, " DEAL AT YOUR OWN RISK! " or " BUYER & SELLER BEWARE ".
In the past few years it seems that eBay has added an automatic return policy that unless the seller adds to or completely
changes the wording eBay has all ready in place a buyer thinks they have the right to return anything for any reason
they want. In the case of the OP he felt and so do I that the seller went with the standard return policy of eBay and
the seller didn't change it and should take returns and give refunds.
BUT
The OP should have paid more attention to the pictures, description and for a purchase in this amount asked the seller
to explain in his words the return policy. Sellers on eBay have so many different rules about returns from no questions
asked to no TPGs will be accepted for return. My favorite was a seller I saw once that offered a policy on raw coins that
you could buy the coin at the grade he said and send it in to a TPG and if it came back not what he said you could send
it back no matter how long, now that takes a set to advertise that. I did not see any negs in his feedback just praise.
You know, since you have the money invested in the coin all ready,
spend a little more and crack it out and send it to PCGS and get a grade.
<< <i>The condition of the coin is irrelevant.
The grade of the coin is irrelevant.
The fact that the coin is in a TPG holder is irrelevant.
The buyer's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The seller's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The auction has an unconditional 14 day return policy, no? Where is the ambiguity in this? Items can be returned for any reason or no reason at all.
Like 99% of disputes that get aired out here on the boards, the best option is to first, make sure you're right. Check your facts! Second, demand satisfaction, escalate the case to supervisors / superiors if needed, and most of all remain 100% polite and professional throughout the entire process. Irrational or unreasonable people often don't get the same quality of service as pushy, rude, or threatening ones. Not saying you are, or that you did, but it's a pretty common problem on this planet.
If nothing else works, go to the credit card company. They'll side with you if you remain calm and can present a rational argument.
You'll have more ammo with eBay and the CC people if you've already returned the item. Otherwise they'll just tell you to call back once he has received it. Make durn sure you get a signature from the receiving party. >>
The pictures were shockingly bad considering the price tag. That would have been warning enough. I think the seller knew enough to play the game and went fishing for somebody to bite thinking it might crossover to a superior holder at the same grade and filing the SNAD was playing right into the sellers hands if that was the case.
<< <i>Likewise, the opposite happened to me.
I was selling a coin, described properly, and without a return policy. Ebay forced the return upon me! >>
Same here and it was a AU58 graded by PCGS and he said they did not get it right so he wanted a discount i said no send back the coin and i never got back my 1913-S type2 Bufflo back, Tracking says delivered but i never rec it, No one knows where it is. "F" ebay but they took the $$$ back so i'am out the coin and the $$$ got a love it.
Hoard the keys.
Mine would have been "seller refuses to honor his return policy."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>If you paid by credit card you can get a refund. >>
This. As long as you paid via PayPal funded by a credit card, simply file a chargeback through the credit card company. They have no desire to mediate eBay sales so they pretty much automatically honor the chargeback. Supply them with some supporting info like the stated return policy shown in a screenshot, etc. and it will be pretty much open and shut.
That said, I do think you're picking nits on the grade...53 vs. 58 is a judgement call to begin with, and frankly I pretty much automatically assume that NGC stuff (particularly if offered on eBay) compared to that of our hosts is usually one grade generous at least. If you were expecting $6K PCGS quality at $3K NGC money then my sympathies are somewhat limited...but the return is indeed enforceable if you go through the CC company.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
1.) Appeal eBay decision;
2.) Open a case with PayPal (this is separate);
3.) Do a charge back with your credit card company.
If the return policy says that you have 14 days to return the coin, then he must give you a refund if you comply with the terms of the listing or he is in breach of contract.
<< <i>
<< <i>So you know how to grade better than three paid professionals your saying. Sorry but your the one at fault in this case if you buy a professionally graded coin and do not agree with the grade use the grade guarantee of the grading service. Neither eBay or the seller did anything wrong. >>
I agree....Should be no return priv's on top tier third party graded coins. >>
I disagree with you. The seller offered an unconditional 14 day return privilege (i.e. there were no terms or limitations). He is obligated to honor his own return privilege. If the coin was marked as not having a return privilege, the story might be different (and at least the OP would have had some notice that this issue would could or would present itself).
<< <i>The condition of the coin is irrelevant.
The grade of the coin is irrelevant.
The fact that the coin is in a TPG holder is irrelevant.
The buyer's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The seller's opinion of the coin is irrelevant.
The auction has an unconditional 14 day return policy, no? Where is the ambiguity in this? Items can be returned for any reason or no reason at all.
Like 99% of disputes that get aired out here on the boards, the best option is to first, make sure you're right. Check your facts! Second, demand satisfaction, escalate the case to supervisors / superiors if needed, and most of all remain 100% polite and professional throughout the entire process. Irrational or unreasonable people often don't get the same quality of service as pushy, rude, or threatening ones. Not saying you are, or that you did, but it's a pretty common problem on this planet.
If nothing else works, go to the credit card company. They'll side with you if you remain calm and can present a rational argument.
You'll have more ammo with eBay and the CC people if you've already returned the item. Otherwise they'll just tell you to call back once he has received it. Make durn sure you get a signature from the receiving party. >>
<< <i>The seller offered a 14-day return policy and you attempted to use the policy. If ebay will not stand by you then go directly to your credit card and I think you may win your case. >>
ebay will quickly back off ...that is my experience .... that is the way complain to your cc company...
Guess what it happened and this thread proves that it does not always work.
Most reputable sellers are going to give returns with no questions asked except get it back like it was sent. But don't be surprised if you’re not asked back to the party if they suspect a buyer of doing the above.
Get in touch with the guy/ gal in charge of returns and explain the situation.
A 14 day return is just that, no reasons need be given, you can return it for
any reason. No questions asked. Just because eBay said that the coin was as
described does't mean squat. The images are terrible, anything could easily be
hidden in the shadows of the holder. Maybe NGC missed something and over
graded the coin ( it's been known to happen... as well as other TPG companies ).
Remember, grades are nothing more than opinions.
eBay has to reverse its decision and have the seller take that coin back. The seller seems as if
he's trying to pull something here, if not, then fine. Just accept your own terms for returns.
Looking forward to a better outcome for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
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