<< <i>The funny thing to me is this: Since milk spots are not covered under the PCGS guarantee anymore, the coin is literally one milk spot away from being an approximately $3k-$5k coin. >>
Personally, I think that if spots have not developed by now, they just arent going to develop.
Milk Spots DO NOT require a slab to form as I have coins in my Dansco that never saw a slab but have developed milk spots. 18 Years is plenty of time for these to form.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs.
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Again, and read very carefully,
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Not every ASE develops spots...even in holders. Not every forum member who owns ASEs have them with spots.
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
My guess is that that observed discrepancy is likely to to distribution/dumb luck. It could well be true that every coin with the potential to spot will indeed spot. Would be interesting to see if some of those unspotted coins in ANACS or NGC would change if placed into an ultrasonic bath.
<< <i>As a friend of the father's once said when someone asked him if he would like to try some freshly prepared rattlesnake, "They needn't fix any for me!"
That is an insane price for an overrated coin that has been declining in price in recent years. >>
I don't think this coin (not in 69-70's) have been declining.
<< <i>19lyds and Bochiman - how many ASEs are in your collections? TPG encapsulated or OGP? Percentage of each with spots? >>
82 Raw coins in a Dansco and 2 with spots. (2%)
21 in PCGS Plastic and 3 with spots. (14%)
Whats your point?
BTW, all my raw coins get a quick E-Z-Est dip to hopefully prevent spotting.
The biggest culprit with milk spotting is not preparing for the possibility by giving the coins a predip prior to encapsulation or grading. A lot of the spotted coins I've seen were in First Strike™ Slabs. Specifically, coins pulled from sealed Monster Boxes which were mintede "before" PCGS and NGC began the First Stike™ program. 2004 - 1986.
1993 was the worst year (IMO) for Milk Spotting given the low mintage. As such, unspotted 1993 First Strike™ coins almost always guarantee a $1,000 premium.
Back tot he subject coin. You can bet $86,000 that PCGS gave this coin nore than a once over before assigning the PR70DCAM Grade. Reslabbed or not, it certainly didn';t get a 6 second glance since they are on the hook, grade wise, for its value. Milk Spotting on proofs is almost always precluded by an imperfection in the coins mirror and can be easily seen.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I don't think the population reports have more than 3 to 5 graded at 70 and I don't think Heritage has sold one at 70 grade. So, if you want the registry set and the finest known set.........you maybe paying up to get it. Good Luck with your coins
<< <i>I don't think the population reports have more than 3 to 5 graded at 70 and I don't think Heritage has sold one at 70 grade. So, if you want the registry set and the finest known set.........you maybe paying up to get it. Good Luck with your coins >>
The PCGS pop reports for 1995-W PR70 DCAM if accurate, show 8.
Hey, if the buyer is happy with the purchase, why should I complain? It's not my cup of tea, but what I like, he or she probably does not. I could think of worse uses for the money...
<< <i>Hey, if the buyer is happy with the purchase, why should I complain? It's not my cup of tea, but what I like, he or she probably does not. I could think of worse uses for the money... >>
Yup! $86K means more to some than it does to others.
<< <i>Hey, if the buyer is happy with the purchase, why should I complain? It's not my cup of tea, but what I like, he or she probably does not. I could think of worse uses for the money... >>
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Again, and read very carefully,
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab. >>
While your theory is viable and likely the true cause, my understanding is that the spots cannot be conclusively linked to wash anymore than they can to the slab.
"I agree with the price guide editor that the coin is worth about $25,000. since the pop has rise by more than 50 percent in the past 60 to 90 days there is no logical reason the coin sold for even half what it sold for. As always just my 2 cents. Wondercoin. >>
While I agree with your logic and you know your moderns, it would appear that the market disagrees. That said I think this is clearly two "got Tk have it whales" going at it and I suspect it would be hard to duplicate. >>
Perhaps easier to duplicate the PCGS PR70 DCAM 1995-W SAE Eric"
Gentleman: I am not convinced the market disagrees with me at all. A "market" that has years and years of history behind it does not "overnight" jump from $20,000 or $30,000 to $86,000 just because:
1. The pop on a coin has jumped up over 50% in the past 60-90 days (most of the time a negative event not a positive event for pricing). 2. Two or three bidders (purportedly) decide they want to bid up to $80,000 to $86,000 on a given night for a modern coin in an auction starting at $1 (or whatever) where the undergrade coin is worth about $3,500 - $3,850 and there are well more than 1,500 undergrade examples out there. Not to mention none of these bidders have come forward to even discuss their bids or underbids .... let's see the underbidder(s) come forward and unconditionally offer to pay $85,000 for another coin or even $75,000 or $65,000 and that would be a start to the "market disagreeing with me". 3. PCGS appears to have taken a position very recently to no longer guarantee spotted 70's (at least as they had been in the past) so, hypothetically, if this coin were to spot and no longer be of 70 grade quality down the road, the owner could arguably be out upwards of tens and tens (and tens) of thousands of dollars (again, generally not a current event that results in a "market" tripling overnight - no?)
Finally, anyone here remember 4/23/2006 - the night a 1993 PCGS-PR70DCAM $50 Gold Eagle fetched about $38,000 at auction (that assumes a 15% buyers fee)? The next one at the same auction venue fetched $12,075 (with a 15% buyers fee) on 4/8/2008 about -2- years later. Then, on 9/20/09, the coin fetched $3,450 (with the 15% buyers fee) at the same auction venue! That equated to roughly 10 cents on the dollar from the original auction price to that 9/20/09 price.
'He who forgets history is doomed (or condemned) to repeat it" (George Santayana)
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
"I'll take a pq+ high end PF69DCAM at a fraction of that price especially picked out by Wondercoin or his daughter. Does JA sticker coins dated 1995?"
Roadrunner: Thank you and this is a perfect reason why the + grade should extend to PR69DCAM examples and not stop at PR68DCAM... something I have been saying from the very day the + grade was announced. A lovely PR69DCAM+ coin might be (arguably) a $7,000 or $7,500 coin (as opposed to a $3,750 value for the PR69DCAM) and would be nice coin for many collectors to consider tucking away. I hope PCGS one day starts to grade this coin in the PR69DCAM+ grade for this very reason.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>"I agree with the price guide editor that the coin is worth about $25,000. since the pop has rise by more than 50 percent in the past 60 to 90 days there is no logical reason the coin sold for even half what it sold for. As always just my 2 cents. Wondercoin. >>
While I agree with your logic and you know your moderns, it would appear that the market disagrees. That said I think this is clearly two "got Tk have it whales" going at it and I suspect it would be hard to duplicate. >>
Perhaps easier to duplicate the PCGS PR70 DCAM 1995-W SAE Eric"
Gentleman: I am not convinced the market disagrees with me at all. A "market" that has years and years of history behind it does not "overnight" jump from $20,000 or $30,000 to $86,000 just because:
1. The pop on a coin has jumped up over 50% in the past 60-90 days (most of the time a negative event not a positive event for pricing). 2. Two or three bidders (purportedly) decide they want to bid up to $80,000 to $86,000 on a given night for a modern coin in an auction starting at $1 (or whatever) where the undergrade coin is worth about $3,500 - $3,850 and there are well more than 1,500 undergrade examples out there. Not to mention none of these bidders have come forward to even discuss their bids or underbids .... let's see the underbidder(s) come forward and unconditionally offer to pay $85,000 for another coin or even $75,000 or $65,000 and that would be a start to the "market disagreeing with me". 3. PCGS appears to have taken a position very recently to no longer guarantee spotted 70's (at least as they had been in the past) so, hypothetically, if this coin were to spot and no longer be of 70 grade quality down the road, the owner could arguably be out upwards of tens and tens (and tens) of thousands of dollars (again, generally not a current event that results in a "market" tripling overnight - no?)
Finally, anyone here remember 4/23/2006 - the night a 1993 PCGS-PR70DCAM $50 Gold Eagle fetched about $38,000 at auction (that assumes a 15% buyers fee)? The next one at the same auction venue fetched $12,075 (with a 15% buyers fee) on 4/8/2008 about -2- years later. Then, on 9/20/09, the coin fetched $3,450 (with the 15% buyers fee) at the same auction venue! That equated to roughly 10 cents on the dollar from the original auction price to that 9/20/09 price.
'He who forgets history is doomed (or condemned) to repeat it" (George Santayana)
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
since the pop has rise by more than 50 percent in the past 60 to 90 days
can you confirm, you are saying the PCGS POP on the 95-W 70, went from 4 to 8 in the last 60-90 days? If so, that is remarkable. Any thought on if those came from new submissions or regrading cracked (in your opinion, of course, not sure how you would 'know.' or any other contributing factors to the doubling?
people who pay $86k for collectibles probably don't have to worry too much about if they're buried in the price, but I'd bet he'll be alright on this one someday if the coin stays perfect. Maybe he can get it authenticated by experts as the first 1995-W ASE struck
Johnrav: If the pop went from 4 to 8 ... I believe that would be a 100% increase.
When the "Top 100 Modern" set was launched at the FUN show, 2013, I recall the pop was 5 at the time. Now, it is 8. I believe that is in excess of a 50% increase this year already.
Remember, there was a period of time after the 95-W was released (a matter of years actually) where NO 70's were being graded at PCGS (something DH adjusted when he took over after RM's departure). So, the fact that the pop is only -8- at this point does not tell the entire story in my opinion. I would expect this pop to continue to rise in the months and years ahead.
As always just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab.
While your theory is viable and likely the true cause, my understanding is that the spots cannot be conclusively linked to wash anymore than they can to the slab.
This. Although I'd change "likely" to possibly".
I wish I were as certain as some seem to be about the cause here. Just because a mint official suggested it might be the cause, doesn't definitively make it so. Plus, I wonder if all this "preemptive dipping" is helping or hurting. It could very well be causing a reaction with the previous chemical wash agent for all anyone knows... just saying. So before going willy-nilly dipping everything in sight I guess I would want more info. Reliable info, that is.
When this MS68FS sold for $22,325, the pop was only 2/0 in August 2012. Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?
Leo
Correction, the pop for a MS68FS remains at 2/0. When they show the pop as 240/7 for a MS67FS they are combining the 67+ graded coins in with the 68's.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
"When this MS68FS sold for $22,325, the pop was only 2/0 in August 2012. Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?"
I'd say the coin is worth $22,500 - $25,000+. The coin remains pop 2/0 (as it has been for the past ten years). I sold BOTH MS68FS coins in the past year for the owner.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Johnrav: If the pop went from 4 to 8 ... I believe that would be a 100% increase.
When the "Top 100 Modern" set was launched at the FUN show, 2013, I recall the pop was 5 at the time. Now, it is 8. I believe that is in excess of a 50% increase this year already.
Remember, there was a period of time after the 95-W was released (a matter of years actually) where NO 70's were being graded at PCGS (something DH adjusted when he took over after RM's departure). So, the fact that the pop is only -8- at this point does not tell the entire story in my opinion. I would expect this pop to continue to rise in the months and years ahead.
As always just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
So is this like Russian roulette with these moderns??? The 70 is merely a label and because of a label someone forked over some serious cash. Now if there are ~50 MS70 coins in 69 holders held to that grade because of a policy, well then yes, this guy is probably buried. If there isn't that many then maybe he isn't. Seems to be one heck of a chance to take.
<< <i>"When this MS68FS sold for $22,325, the pop was only 2/0 in August 2012. Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?"
I'd say the coin is worth $22,500 - $25,000+. The coin remains pop 2/0 (as it has been for the past ten years). I sold BOTH MS68FS coins in the past year for the owner.
Wondercoin >>
They must be combining the 67+ coins in with the 68's when giving the pops for a MS67FS as 240/7, correct? My error then.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
<< <i>Bet it took a team of Clydesdale to pull the smile off the consignor's face last nite ! ! !
HH >>
Good one.......
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC FOR SALE
<< <i>Everyone who thinks this price was excessive can take comfort in the fact that you were not the buyer. >>
Well said
However, that won't prevent them posting about how it is way overblown or that someone is stupid. That's what the forums are good for, after all
(as for me, I am right there with your statement...I like SAEs and all, but I am taking comfort that I was not the buyer
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Bet it took a team of Clydesdale to pull the smile off the consignor's face last nite ! ! ! >>
He doesn't have anything yet. The buyer still has to pay and not return the coin.
<< <i>The funny thing to me is this: Since milk spots are not covered under the PCGS guarantee anymore, the coin is literally one milk spot away from being an approximately $3k-$5k coin. >>
Personally, I think that if spots have not developed by now, they just arent going to develop.
Milk Spots DO NOT require a slab to form as I have coins in my Dansco that never saw a slab but have developed milk spots. 18 Years is plenty of time for these to form.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Again, and read very carefully,
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Not every ASE develops spots...even in holders. Not every forum member who owns ASEs have them with spots.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>All I know is that it wasn't me
+1
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
My guess is that that observed discrepancy is likely to to distribution/dumb luck. It could well be true that every coin with the potential to spot will indeed spot. Would be interesting to see if some of those unspotted coins in ANACS or NGC would change if placed into an ultrasonic bath.
<< <i>As a friend of the father's once said when someone asked him if he would like to try some freshly prepared rattlesnake, "They needn't fix any for me!"
That is an insane price for an overrated coin that has been declining in price in recent years. >>
I don't think this coin (not in 69-70's) have been declining.
<< <i>
<< <i>All I know is that it wasn't me
+1 >>
+2 and I'd like to have one
<< <i>19lyds and Bochiman - how many ASEs are in your collections? TPG encapsulated or OGP? Percentage of each with spots? >>
I think Bochiman seals his in plarstic food saver bags and then puts those into Mason jars and keeps the jars on Funk and Wagnalls' porch.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>All I know is that it wasn't me
+1 >>
+2 and I'd like to have one >>
I'd like to have an extry $86K or 4 to squander on such stuff.
<< <i>19lyds and Bochiman - how many ASEs are in your collections? TPG encapsulated or OGP? Percentage of each with spots? >>
82 Raw coins in a Dansco and 2 with spots. (2%)
21 in PCGS Plastic and 3 with spots. (14%)
Whats your point?
BTW, all my raw coins get a quick E-Z-Est dip to hopefully prevent spotting.
The biggest culprit with milk spotting is not preparing for the possibility by giving the coins a predip prior to encapsulation or grading. A lot of the spotted coins I've seen were in First Strike™ Slabs. Specifically, coins pulled from sealed Monster Boxes which were mintede "before" PCGS and NGC began the First Stike™ program. 2004 - 1986.
1993 was the worst year (IMO) for Milk Spotting given the low mintage. As such, unspotted 1993 First Strike™ coins almost always guarantee a $1,000 premium.
Back tot he subject coin. You can bet $86,000 that PCGS gave this coin nore than a once over before assigning the PR70DCAM Grade. Reslabbed or not, it certainly didn';t get a 6 second glance since they are on the hook, grade wise, for its value. Milk Spotting on proofs is almost always precluded by an imperfection in the coins mirror and can be easily seen.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>19lyds and Bochiman - how many ASEs are in your collections? TPG encapsulated or OGP? Percentage of each with spots? >>
82 Raw coins in a Dansco and 2 with spots. (2%)
21 in PCGS Plastic and 3 with spots. (14%)
Whats your point? >>
Apparently that PCGS slabs promote or accelerate spotting.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>19lyds and Bochiman - how many ASEs are in your collections? TPG encapsulated or OGP? Percentage of each with spots? >>
82 Raw coins in a Dansco and 2 with spots. (2%)
21 in PCGS Plastic and 3 with spots. (14%)
Whats your point? >>
Apparently that PCGS slabs promote or accelerate spotting. >>
Submitting SAE's without "looking" at them and taking the proper precautions is what promotes this spotting.
But then, thats just my opinion.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I don't think the population reports have more than 3 to 5 graded at 70 and I don't think Heritage has sold one at 70 grade. So, if you want the registry set and the finest known set.........you maybe paying up to get it. Good Luck with your coins >>
The PCGS pop reports for 1995-W PR70 DCAM if accurate, show 8.
WOULD NOT TOUCH IT FOR 1K....much less 86K!!
Stupid Stupid Stupid
Does JA sticker coins dated 1995?
<< <i>I can't say "STUPID MONEY" loud enough!!!!!
WOULD NOT TOUCH IT FOR 1K....much less 86K!!
Stupid Stupid Stupid >>
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Hey, if the buyer is happy with the purchase, why should I complain? It's not my cup of tea, but what I like, he or she probably does not. I could think of worse uses for the money... >>
Yup! $86K means more to some than it does to others.
<< <i>Hey, if the buyer is happy with the purchase, why should I complain? It's not my cup of tea, but what I like, he or she probably does not. I could think of worse uses for the money... >>
Name one. It's a bullion coin!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>19lyds have 35-60% of your Dansco ASEs developed spots? That's what every forum member with large collections of PCGS ASEs reported on the thread regarding PCGS retroactive cancelation of the grade guarantee on ASEs. Not a single forum member here or ATS had anywhere near that percentage of spots with ASEs in OGP or other TPGs. >>
Again, and read very carefully,
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab. >>
While your theory is viable and likely the true cause, my understanding is that the spots cannot be conclusively linked to wash anymore than they can to the slab.
While I agree with your logic and you know your moderns, it would appear that the market disagrees. That said I think this is clearly two "got Tk have it whales" going at it and I suspect it would be hard to duplicate. >>
Perhaps easier to duplicate the PCGS PR70 DCAM 1995-W SAE Eric"
Gentleman: I am not convinced the market disagrees with me at all. A "market" that has years and years of history behind it does not "overnight" jump from $20,000 or $30,000 to $86,000 just because:
1. The pop on a coin has jumped up over 50% in the past 60-90 days (most of the time a negative event not a positive event for pricing).
2. Two or three bidders (purportedly) decide they want to bid up to $80,000 to $86,000 on a given night for a modern coin in an auction starting at $1 (or whatever) where the undergrade coin is worth about $3,500 - $3,850 and there are well more than 1,500 undergrade examples out there. Not to mention none of these bidders have come forward to even discuss their bids or underbids .... let's see the underbidder(s) come forward and unconditionally offer to pay $85,000 for another coin or even $75,000 or $65,000 and that would be a start to the "market disagreeing with me".
3. PCGS appears to have taken a position very recently to no longer guarantee spotted 70's (at least as they had been in the past) so, hypothetically, if this coin were to spot and no longer be of 70 grade quality down the road, the owner could arguably be out upwards of tens and tens (and tens) of thousands of dollars (again, generally not a current event that results in a "market" tripling overnight - no?)
Finally, anyone here remember 4/23/2006 - the night a 1993 PCGS-PR70DCAM $50 Gold Eagle fetched about $38,000 at auction (that assumes a 15% buyers fee)? The next one at the same auction venue fetched $12,075 (with a 15% buyers fee) on 4/8/2008 about -2- years later. Then, on 9/20/09, the coin fetched $3,450 (with the 15% buyers fee) at the same auction venue! That equated to roughly 10 cents on the dollar from the original auction price to that 9/20/09 price.
'He who forgets history is doomed (or condemned) to repeat it" (George Santayana)
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Does JA sticker coins dated 1995?"
Roadrunner: Thank you and this is a perfect reason why the + grade should extend to PR69DCAM examples and not stop at PR68DCAM... something I have been saying from the very day the + grade was announced. A lovely PR69DCAM+ coin might be (arguably) a $7,000 or $7,500 coin (as opposed to a $3,750 value for the PR69DCAM) and would be nice coin for many collectors to consider tucking away. I hope PCGS one day starts to grade this coin in the PR69DCAM+ grade for this very reason.
Wondercoin
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Ok, I see a hit on Liberty's front leg. OVERGRADED! >>
What a tough crowd we have here, no-one fell for my April Fool's joke!
I guess I'm the biggest fool of them all.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>This almost begs the question what a real modern rarity is worth- >>
A modern rarity perhaps only exists in relation to other moderns. What is the "rarest" modern US coin to compare against?
Latin American Collection
<< <i>"I agree with the price guide editor that the coin is worth about $25,000. since the pop has rise by more than 50 percent in the past 60 to 90 days there is no logical reason the coin sold for even half what it sold for. As always just my 2 cents. Wondercoin. >>
While I agree with your logic and you know your moderns, it would appear that the market disagrees. That said I think this is clearly two "got Tk have it whales" going at it and I suspect it would be hard to duplicate. >>
Perhaps easier to duplicate the PCGS PR70 DCAM 1995-W SAE Eric"
Gentleman: I am not convinced the market disagrees with me at all. A "market" that has years and years of history behind it does not "overnight" jump from $20,000 or $30,000 to $86,000 just because:
1. The pop on a coin has jumped up over 50% in the past 60-90 days (most of the time a negative event not a positive event for pricing).
2. Two or three bidders (purportedly) decide they want to bid up to $80,000 to $86,000 on a given night for a modern coin in an auction starting at $1 (or whatever) where the undergrade coin is worth about $3,500 - $3,850 and there are well more than 1,500 undergrade examples out there. Not to mention none of these bidders have come forward to even discuss their bids or underbids .... let's see the underbidder(s) come forward and unconditionally offer to pay $85,000 for another coin or even $75,000 or $65,000 and that would be a start to the "market disagreeing with me".
3. PCGS appears to have taken a position very recently to no longer guarantee spotted 70's (at least as they had been in the past) so, hypothetically, if this coin were to spot and no longer be of 70 grade quality down the road, the owner could arguably be out upwards of tens and tens (and tens) of thousands of dollars (again, generally not a current event that results in a "market" tripling overnight - no?)
Finally, anyone here remember 4/23/2006 - the night a 1993 PCGS-PR70DCAM $50 Gold Eagle fetched about $38,000 at auction (that assumes a 15% buyers fee)? The next one at the same auction venue fetched $12,075 (with a 15% buyers fee) on 4/8/2008 about -2- years later. Then, on 9/20/09, the coin fetched $3,450 (with the 15% buyers fee) at the same auction venue! That equated to roughly 10 cents on the dollar from the original auction price to that 9/20/09 price.
'He who forgets history is doomed (or condemned) to repeat it" (George Santayana)
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
since the pop has rise by more than 50 percent in the past 60 to 90 days
can you confirm, you are saying the PCGS POP on the 95-W 70, went from 4 to 8 in the last 60-90 days? If so, that is remarkable. Any thought on if those came from new submissions or regrading cracked (in your opinion, of course, not sure how you would 'know.' or any other contributing factors to the doubling?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
When the "Top 100 Modern" set was launched at the FUN show, 2013, I recall the pop was 5 at the time. Now, it is 8. I believe that is in excess of a 50% increase this year already.
Remember, there was a period of time after the 95-W was released (a matter of years actually) where NO 70's were being graded at PCGS (something DH adjusted when he took over after RM's departure). So, the fact that the pop is only -8- at this point does not tell the entire story in my opinion. I would expect this pop to continue to rise in the months and years ahead.
As always just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Slabs DO NOT make nor cause these Silver Eagles develop Milk Spots. The spotting is due to a failed rinse at the US Mint. IF the batch of planchets that the coins were produced from did not get a proper rinse then they will spot. Slab or no slab.
While your theory is viable and likely the true cause, my understanding is that the spots cannot be conclusively linked to wash anymore than they can to the slab.
This. Although I'd change "likely" to possibly".
I wish I were as certain as some seem to be about the cause here. Just because a mint official suggested it might be the cause, doesn't definitively make it so. Plus, I wonder if all this "preemptive dipping" is helping or hurting. It could very well be causing a reaction with the previous chemical wash agent for all anyone knows... just saying. So before going willy-nilly dipping everything in sight I guess I would want more info. Reliable info, that is.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?
Leo
Correction, the pop for a MS68FS remains at 2/0. When they show the pop as 240/7 for a MS67FS they are combining the 67+ graded coins in with the 68's.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?"
I'd say the coin is worth $22,500 - $25,000+. The coin remains pop 2/0 (as it has been for the past ten years). I sold BOTH MS68FS coins in the past year for the owner.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Johnrav: If the pop went from 4 to 8 ... I believe that would be a 100% increase.
When the "Top 100 Modern" set was launched at the FUN show, 2013, I recall the pop was 5 at the time. Now, it is 8. I believe that is in excess of a 50% increase this year already.
Remember, there was a period of time after the 95-W was released (a matter of years actually) where NO 70's were being graded at PCGS (something DH adjusted when he took over after RM's departure). So, the fact that the pop is only -8- at this point does not tell the entire story in my opinion. I would expect this pop to continue to rise in the months and years ahead.
As always just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
So is this like Russian roulette with these moderns??? The 70 is merely a label and because of a label someone forked over some serious cash. Now if there are ~50 MS70 coins in 69 holders held to that grade because of a policy, well then yes, this guy is probably buried. If there isn't that many then maybe he isn't. Seems to be one heck of a chance to take.
<< <i>"When this MS68FS sold for $22,325, the pop was only 2/0 in August 2012.
Since then 4 others have been graded at that level. Anyone want to take a gander on what the value of that coin is now?"
I'd say the coin is worth $22,500 - $25,000+. The coin remains pop 2/0 (as it has been for the past ten years). I sold BOTH MS68FS coins in the past year for the owner.
Wondercoin >>
They must be combining the 67+ coins in with the 68's when giving the pops for a MS67FS as 240/7, correct? My error then.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Wondercoin