'63 Kennedy Overstrike
epcjimi1
Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
From the Dan Carr website -
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epcjimi1
Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
Comments
Unless the image is not clear as I am not seeing the lower left part of the serif.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>The I in LIBERTY looks like it the I from the Accented Hair variety?
Unless the image is not clear as I am not seeing the lower left part of the serif. >>
looks like it to me too. maybe just a little bitty piece sticking out
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<< <i>I'm surprised how expensive they are. The price tag takes away the coolness for me >>
Really?
$45. is too much? (Bulk strike examples)
These always seem to do so much better on the secondary market, especially as the generally have a tendency to sell-out rather quickly.
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm surprised how expensive they are. The price tag takes away the coolness for me >>
Really?
$45. is too much? (Bulk strike examples)
These always seem to do so much better on the secondary market, especially as the generally have a tendency to sell-out rather quickly. >>
With the costs of plastics and stickies these days this sounds a bargain! But they are not for me. I flip out enough
Eric
Go Danny!
Well, just Love coins, period.
I like it............looks like a little something going on with the ear @ 3:00........?
<< <i>I like it............looks like a little something going on with the ear @ 3:00........? >>
That is hair behind and the ear over. Look at a genuine half. They appear to be "blurred" together in this image. I am sure Dan will answer - it could just be lighting. I doubt it is because of any of the programs used. Perhaps it in intentional as the ray on the Peace $.
Best wishes,
Eric
Or, JFK's Vulcan heritage is showing.
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
<< <i>I suppose there's a market for it, but I always preferred this sort of thing from Daniel Carr myself:
Now THAT has a coolness factor.
<< <i>
<< <i>I suppose there's a market for it, but I always preferred this sort of thing from Daniel Carr myself:
Now THAT has a coolness factor. >>
The pair of silvers, one proof and one 'satin', had a very large coolness factor upon resale
Regards, Larry
Why ?
This year is the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination in 1963. I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a fan of some of the other Kennedys, but I think JFK was one of the last presidents who actually had the interests of the general public in mind. And the "1975" version was made to go along with the "1975" Ike Dollars I already did.
Obverse variety ?
Yes, I used a 1964 "Accented Hair" coin as the original model. Due to some blurring during the over-strike, and the fact that I'm still using my same (now-aged) engraving machine, the hair details are somewhat muted. PS: I'm expecting to get a new more-accurate engraving machine by the end of March.
Eric
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm surprised how expensive they are. The price tag takes away the coolness for me >>
Really?
$45. is too much? (Bulk strike examples)
These always seem to do so much better on the secondary market, especially as the generally have a tendency to sell-out rather quickly. >>
I cannot get myself to spend 4.5 times silver value for a fantasy overstrike. Dont even get me started on the clad ones.
Maybe if it was a 1913 V nickel, a 1943 copper wheat cent, 1944 steel wheat cent, 1933 $20 Saint....etc etc etc I would pay the insane premium. A kennedy half? really?
DCarr has steadily risen prices on his overstrikes. (Why were the Oregon Trail Overstrike prices higher than PCGS Certified Mint State original examples??????)
Seems to be capitalizing on his 15 minutes of fame (1964 Peace Dollar Ovestrikes)....................................
<< <i>I suppose there's a market for it, but I always preferred this sort of thing from Daniel Carr myself:
I agree! I much prefer his original designs to his counterfeits!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm surprised how expensive they are. The price tag takes away the coolness for me >>
Really?
$45. is too much? (Bulk strike examples)
These always seem to do so much better on the secondary market, especially as the generally have a tendency to sell-out rather quickly. >>
I cannot get myself to spend 4.5 times silver value for a fantasy overstrike. Dont even get me started on the clad ones.
Maybe if it was a 1913 V nickel, a 1943 copper wheat cent, 1944 steel wheat cent, 1933 $20 Saint....etc etc etc I would pay the insane premium. A kennedy half? really?
DCarr has steadily risen prices on his overstrikes. (Why were the Oregon Trail Overstrike prices higher than PCGS Certified Mint State original examples??????)
Seems to be capitalizing on his 15 minutes of fame (1964 Peace Dollar Ovestrikes).................................... >>
The coins you list already exist, so I wouldn't make any of those.
Yes, the "1927-D" Oregon Trail over-strike coins were fairly expensive. But it costs a lot to run a Mint, it takes a lot of time and skill to make a good pair of dies, the original Oregon Trail half dollars that I over-struck cost about $100-$150 each, they were very difficult to make due to the very high relief on those coins, and I only made a total of 61 of them.
The "1963" and "1975" Kennedy half dollar over-strikes (bulk-handled), are actually among the lowest price fantasy-date coins I've issued so far. The only one that was less was the "1933" Indian Head nickel (broad-strike version).
<< <i>I agree! I much prefer his original designs to his counterfeits! >>
I've not made any "counterfeits".
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Oh I did order the 64 & 75 silver bulk ones
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
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Will there be another President with the guts to squash the FED? Neat OS I may pick one up.
<< <i>
<< <i>I suppose there's a market for it, but I always preferred this sort of thing from Daniel Carr myself:
I agree! I much prefer his original designs to his counterfeits! >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I suppose there's a market for it, but I always preferred this sort of thing from Daniel Carr myself:
I agree! I much prefer his original designs to his counterfeits! >>
I'll second that 'agree'. I actively sought this piece (pieces) out for a while (I was lucky enough to get one of each off his site at time of issue, minted before he purchased his 'new' press from the Denver Mint). I think I was able to find ONE from a gracious board member. Received raw from DCarr (as is normal), they got sent to ANACS, both from Moonlight Mint 69'ed, and got the special insert (sold 3rd one raw). I really love this particular design, given it's backstory, with DCarr 'casing' the Denver Mint out, taking photos, getting the specifics of the building down to a 'T'.....kinda like a terrorist...lol (NOT calling you a terrorist, Mr. Carr, I appreciate the effort you put into this piece, and it shows...just a little twisted humor)....but I believe he WAS actually stopped and confronted (not exactly sure of the exact story...perhaps Mr. Carr can ring in and elaborate, hopefully), but the effort that went into getting this particular design just perfect, that he wanted the design to be as exact as possible, it made the pieces special, I thought. But, as we all know, most of the time when the right price comes along, you accept it to put something else in your collection, a real collector coin, especially when the profit is so great, so I parted with mine (it was still tough, even with the 'offer I couldn't refuse'. Still wish I had the set (they were in my box of 20 of non legal tender, they were the star of that box, even with an NGC graded HK-19 in it, and that's an $800-$1,000 SCD...mine was NGC 62PL).
It's a sharp looking medallion (which the mint SHOULD have done on their own), with a very small mintage of 50 on the satin finish (even a 150 mintage for the proof is small). Finding more than 1 or 2 would be a major coupe, believe me. And yes, let's not forget, these were made in '06, when silver was what, under $9 all year, avg, so it did cost many multiples of spot, compared to his silver pieces minted now, which don't. With spot near $30 oz, that puts intrinsic value of the 90% silver Kennedys, at up to about 2.75X spot today (2 bulk handled are $80), where in '06, this medallion was over 6.5X spot, even the '64-D Peace $ (which I think will still run second to these Denver medallions) was cheaper, per spot price/weight. Yes, the selling price was relatively high, % wise, but actual cost was cheap, and these weren't/aren't bought as bullion. It matters not what the intrinsic value of most/all of his pieces are.....it's about mintage, artistry, and giving collectors controversial pieces they want...let's face it, there have been great point/counterpoint discussions on some of his pieces (his '64-D hit a real nerve with some).
Mr. Carr states these Kennedy's are the cheapest offerings he's had, except for the Buffalo broadstrikes. Overall, I feel that, even at the original issue cost (I believe it was about $50 ea), this Denver piece, sold (at time of issue) for comparable $$ that the 'bulk' Kennedy's are now selling for. At $40 for bulk handled, and $85 for 'high grade'...the price on high grade makes issue price on these Denver medallions look cheap, especially where mine both got a 69 at ANACS, and the high grade Kennedy's are 'consistent with a 67+ grade'...a lower grade than the Denver medallion. But, with the Denver medallion being ONE FULL OUNCE of .999 silver (and under a half oz of 90% for the Kennedys), coupled with the Denver design NOT being something that could be argued to be a counterfeit, the 'behind the scenes' adventure...... I consider this his best work, even nicer than his 'overstrikes', or other designs, given the entire spectrum of getting this piece minted.
Now I'm going to have to find another set (highly unlikely)....along with another HK-19, now that our hosts slab SCD's (which I feel this Denver Mint commem piece should/could be considered..next SCD book (in what, 30 years?)..lol)
as an aside, it's still early (late night, almost saw the sun come up, and it broke [overcast/foggy, though] over Boston only a few hours ago...lol) and haven't made my D2 run yet, so if I'm rambling and it makes no sense, I'll correct it after my caffeine fix.....I may even 'turbo' them today!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think that the overstrike "fantasy" coins can peak the interest of collectors and have sustainability as a collectible in the market as long as the "minters" dont overdue it.
That said, I think the current offerings are starting the turn this market into the baseball card market of the 1990's. Prices are sharply increasing - I believe the first 1964-d Peace overstrikes were offered at the level at which the fantasy 1963 Kennedy's (MS strike) are now selling......with silver prices not too far off thier levels of that time?
Dont get me wrong - still like these creations - but just starting to lose interest
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
Do you really think that his detractors are so irrational that they can not tell the difference between a fictional interpretation of a alleged political ploy and a coin that looks EXACTLY like something one could receive in change save for one digit in the date (a detail most don't even pay attention to save for coin nerds).
If I walk into a store and spend a 1963 Kennedy it would most assuredly be accepted for 50c, am I committing a crime? Before you bandwagon folks say for sure think about this, If I take a 1 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it a 3 dollar bill and spend it, I am committing a class 1 felony with lots of prostitution precedence behind it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
Do you really think that his detractors are so irrational that they can not tell the difference between a fictional interpretation of a alleged political ploy and a coin that looks EXACTLY like something one could receive in change save for one digit in the date (a detail most don't even pay attention to save for coin nerds).
If I walk into a store and spend a 1963 Kennedy it would most assuredly be accepted for 50c, am I committing a crime? Before you bandwagon folks say for sure think about this, If I take a 1 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it a 3 dollar bill and spend it, I am committing a class 1 felony with lots of prostitution precedence behind it. >>
Your example would be more fair if you stated it like this, "If I take a 20 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it with a 3 dollar bill and spend it, am I committing a felony?"
The 1963 Kennedy halves sell for a premium and contain 90% silver. Spending it for 50c would be a tremendous loss for the person passing it. Not the other way around.
peacockcoins
<< <i>I liked the 1964-D Peace Dollar overstrikes - but started to lose interest when too many varieties were introduced (although some were nice).
I think that the overstrike "fantasy" coins can peak the interest of collectors and have sustainability as a collectible in the market as long as the "minters" dont overdue it.
That said, I think the current offerings are starting the turn this market into the baseball card market of the 1990's. Prices are sharply increasing - I believe the first 1964-d Peace overstrikes were offered at the level at which the fantasy 1963 Kennedy's (MS strike) are now selling......with silver prices not too far off thier levels of that time?
Dont get me wrong - still like these creations - but just starting to lose interest >>
Like you, I, for some reason, lost interest, though I LOVED them when first issued, just LOVED them (I'd still like to have one bulk handled example, just to have one), and I did have a full set, though I HAD to part with it, at a time I wanted to hold them. Sold the set to a fellow board member.
As for issue prices, the CHEAPEST of the '64-D Peace $ 'overstrikes' was $75 for a 'bulk handled MS63 quality', while the 'high grade' 90% 1963 Kennedy is $85 (so, yes, the Kennedy IS going for, the high grade pieces, the same as the Peace in MS63, but it's only half the size/silver content as the Peace 'overstrikes'). The matte proof was issued at $180, so the 'high-grade 67+' Kennedy is actually 2X what the 'bulk handled MS63' Peace 'overstrike' was. Then, the Peace 'overstrikes' jumped to $90 for a 'second round' 'bulk handled MS63 grade', to $160 for the 'individually handled PL', to $175 for the 'matte proof' version.
Just noticed, all 'high grade' are $70, 'bulk handled' are $40, except the '63's, which are $85 and $45, respectively (though, I'm sure you all saw that. I gotta go for my 'joe' right now!).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
Do you really think that his detractors are so irrational that they can not tell the difference between a fictional interpretation of a alleged political ploy and a coin that looks EXACTLY like something one could receive in change save for one digit in the date (a detail most don't even pay attention to save for coin nerds).
If I walk into a store and spend a 1963 Kennedy it would most assuredly be accepted for 50c, am I committing a crime? Before you bandwagon folks say for sure think about this, If I take a 1 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it a 3 dollar bill and spend it, I am committing a class 1 felony with lots of prostitution precedence behind it. >>
Your example would be more fair if you stated it like this, "If I take a 20 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it with a 3 dollar bill and spend it, am I committing a felony?"
The 1963 Kennedy halves sell for a premium and contain 90% silver. Spending it for 50c would be a tremendous loss for the person passing it. Not the other way around. >>
It has been reported that Henning ended up spending approximately seven cents each for every nickel he counterfeited. However, the fact that he lost money on the deal was not enough to protect him from prosecution.
I'm not arguing the end result is still (probably) a crime.
Just pointing out the unfairness of the way the question was poised.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Your example would be more fair if you stated it like this, "If I take a 20 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it with a 3 dollar bill and spend it, am I committing a felony?" >>
Interesting.
I wonder if the Secret Service would have an issue with our hero washing $1 notes and using the "blanks" to printing some "fantasy" $100 notes with, say, series 1933 or some other series date never produced by the BEP? What could the Secret Service complain about? It's not like there were ever any "real" notes from that series. As long as they were sold with a nice flip explaining the difference, there is no way anybody would be fooled into thinking they were "real." And most importantly ... the fantasy notes could not be considered counterfeits because no real notes of that date were ever produced! Yeah, I don't think the Secret Service would mind at all ...
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
Do you really think that his detractors are so irrational that they can not tell the difference between a fictional interpretation of a alleged political ploy and a coin that looks EXACTLY like something one could receive in change save for one digit in the date (a detail most don't even pay attention to save for coin nerds).
If I walk into a store and spend a 1963 Kennedy it would most assuredly be accepted for 50c, am I committing a crime? Before you bandwagon folks say for sure think about this, If I take a 1 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it a 3 dollar bill and spend it, I am committing a class 1 felony with lots of prostitution precedence behind it. >>
I was being facetious. Take a chill pill. Geez.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What if "somebody" started striking 2015 Kennedy half dollars as fantasy strikes. Hey ... nobody could claim they were "counterfeits" because no 2015 Kennedy halves were ever struck ... yet.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
Do you really think that his detractors are so irrational that they can not tell the difference between a fictional interpretation of a alleged political ploy and a coin that looks EXACTLY like something one could receive in change save for one digit in the date (a detail most don't even pay attention to save for coin nerds).
If I walk into a store and spend a 1963 Kennedy it would most assuredly be accepted for 50c, am I committing a crime? Before you bandwagon folks say for sure think about this, If I take a 1 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it a 3 dollar bill and spend it, I am committing a class 1 felony with lots of prostitution precedence behind it. >>
Your example would be more fair if you stated it like this, "If I take a 20 dollar bill and wash it to remove the print and reprint it with a 3 dollar bill and spend it, am I committing a felony?"
The 1963 Kennedy halves sell for a premium and contain 90% silver. Spending it for 50c would be a tremendous loss for the person passing it. Not the other way around. >>
The name is LEE!
Overall I like the Oregon better than the MS65 1936 S "real one", and would like an 8 1/2 x 11 print of the Indian side - Hint, hint....
Anxious to see the new coins coming up after the March delivery. Maybe a 2 1/2 or $5 Indian??
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>^
I'm not arguing the end result is still (probably) a crime.
Just pointing out the unfairness of the way the question was poised. >>
The profitability of the act doesn't really apply and besides the one spending it is the wrong perspective anyway. Danial makes plenty of profit on each of the counterfeit coins he makes even if the face value isn't comparable. He alters genuine mint products in a capacity that would fool the avg reasonable person (just to apply a legal standard) for profit. Sounds like a rock solid definition of criminal counterfeiting to me. Just because he doesn't market his frauds to the normal "avg reasonable person" doesn't change his action in the least; It would be no different than a mobster selling super notes to others criminals that know that they are super notes and then claiming innocence because he doesn't misrepresent the product or have any control of them once they leave his hands.
I wish he would stick to stuff like the LSCC medals (using his obvious actual talent & skills) and his other original creations but like most people who flirt with the law; he started out small and got addicted to the profit to where he does less and less legit stuff and more and more crap. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he got arrested and spent a little time reflecting on his actions but that's just my opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>^
I'm not arguing the end result is still (probably) a crime.
Just pointing out the unfairness of the way the question was poised. >>
The profitability of the act doesn't really apply and besides the one spending it is the wrong perspective anyway. Danial makes plenty of profit on each of the counterfeit coins he makes even if the face value isn't comparable. He alters genuine mint products in a capacity that would fool the avg reasonable person (just to apply a legal standard) for profit. Sounds like a rock solid definition of criminal counterfeiting to me. Just because he doesn't market his frauds to the normal "avg reasonable person" doesn't change his action in the least; It would be no different than a mobster selling super notes to others criminals that know that they are super notes and then claiming innocence because he doesn't misrepresent the product or have any control of them once they leave his hands.
I wish he would stick to stuff like the LSCC medals (using his obvious actual talent & skills) and his other original creations but like most people who flirt with the law; he started out small and got addicted to the profit to where he does less and less legit stuff and more and more crap. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he got arrested and spent a little time reflecting on his actions but that's just my opinion. >>
You had a winning argument right up to the the point you made (highlighted in bold).
Then you divert your course of debate and make it personal (that alone wouldn't really be a take away from your point but then you speak for him- as if you are him, or know his motives so well as to express them here as fact) and lose your focus.
Anyone else were to write what you did (again, only the highlighted in bold part) about anyone else here on the forum and he would be thought of as a troll.
You sir most definitely are not, so I question your motive to attack D. Carr so readily?
peacockcoins
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>It's surprising that the Fantasy stuff is so popular. Do some of the buyers of this material also wear a toupe and Folex watch, drive a reproduction "vintage" collector car from a kit, and give their wife glittery cubic zirconium and gold-plated jewelry and fake designer handbags to show off? Probably, all that stuff is "fun" for some people, too. Congrats to the marketers of fake stuff made for collector fun, and best wishes to the buyers and resellers of these products, enjoy the niche
I laughed a little.
<< <i>
You had a winning argument right up to the the point you made (highlighted in bold).
Then you divert your course of debate and make it personal (that alone wouldn't really be a take away from your point but then you speak for him- as if you are him, or know his motives so well as to express them here as fact) and lose your focus.
Anyone else were to write what you did (again, only the highlighted in bold part) about anyone else here on the forum and he would be thought of as a troll.
You sir most definitely are not, so I question your motive to attack D. Carr so readily? >>
Ouch, reminds me of when my grandmother used to say that "she wasn't mad, just disappointed in me". I guess there is nothing to say but sorry for taking my point off course and into a personal tangent. I can see how some would take it in poor taste. Although I stand by my words but will try to avoid the personal/speculative tone in the future.
To be fair I was basing the statement off of others I have known through the years who found themselves on the wrong side of the law and how they started and correlating it back to DCarr wording it as an opinion and not necessarily fact. The funny thing is how very similar how all of the party's rational is and how they would state emphatically some technicality about how it wasn't as bad as others thought until the law caught up only to find out that the short term absence of prosecution is not a validation of legitimacy.
I attack him so readily because to me he is a profiteer who is exploiting our hobby for profit and is the kind of person who casts a negative light on the hobby and numismatists as a whole. The only distinction I draw between him and the nameless Chinese counterfeiters is the talent level and to be honest I think that makes him more of a risk and danger.
As for Baley's comment: many of us collect entirely different coins. I can assure you that I for one have coins that are first class rarities, and that
seldom come up for sale. So in between, a hobby within a hobby is occasionally picking up on of these bits. I like how they look and share them with friends, they are
not to be confused with the original coins, and are a bit fun. Perhaps you ought to take a look first hand at one of the Oregon pieces...
BTW, maybe some of the purveyors of original mint items that perpetrate ridiculous markets for such coins as 1909 S-VDB's could be attacked for gross profiteering. Or the
Legends of the world that appear to look down on everybody else's coins as "dreck" while flipping essentially widgets now entombed largely in plastic.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>... they are not to be confused with the original coins ... >>
Ah, but they will be confused with "real" coins and that is one of the issues that many people have with these fantasy pieces. Sellers and collectors can claim that "nobody" will confuse them, but it will happen out of ignorance or deception.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>... they are not to be confused with the original coins ... >>
Ah, but they will be confused with "real" coins and that is one of the issues that many people have with these fantasy pieces. Sellers and collectors can claim that "nobody" will confuse them, but it will happen out of ignorance or deception. >>
I do trust that those who own Mr. Carr's regular coin design counterfeits have labeled them appropriately for the benefit of their heirs. We wouldn't want them to get false hopes up out of ignorance, when they discover a coin that is not in the reference books when they are going through Grandpa's estate.
(here's one)
I'll admit that if (when) DC comes out with an 1803 and 1826 quarter, or 1804 half dollar, minted over genuine cull pieces, I would consider buying them as curiosities. Lots of respect for the skill and craftsmanship, well done on the loopholes getting around the hobby protection act COPY mark required for coin copies that look so close to real, and congrats on the profitable bootleg. BTW I do have a fake Rolex my mom brought back from Hong Kong. It looks and works great, but I'm embarassed to wear it. I'm even kind of embarassed to have the GM 1796 half in the book.
Is it better or worse looking than no coin at all?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Nor do the Chinese do so with any authentic U.S. struck coin.
No, instead the Chinese take blank planchets and, if you're lucky the planchet is close to correct fineness, strike- using a counterfeit die of the impression of a genuine coin, to be sold and passed at a profit.
Daniel Carr does none of this.
You know how I know?
Because I've read his website as he describes exactly how he mints his creations and have seen and owned his coins. I have viewed for myself first hand and see the host coin is a real coin. Secondly, the U.S. Secret Service refuses to act as there is no crime that is being committed.
Now, for those that don't like his fantasy tokens, I completely understand.
I don't particularly like mid-grade bust half dimes and you know what I do about that? I don't collect them. I also don't scream for the rooftops no one should collect them.
Don't like a TV show? Change the channel.
Don't like C. Carr's offerings? Don't purchase them.
Don't like McDonald's cheeseburgers? Don't eat them.
And on and on... and on. . .
peacockcoins
<< <i>I was hopeing he was hard at work on the Liberty Seated Collectors Club 40th Anniversary Medal... >>
I'll be minting those soon. I'm still waiting to get the final order total and final specifications.
<< <i>I'll second that 'agree'. I actively sought this piece (pieces) out for a while (I was lucky enough to get one of each off his site at time of issue, minted before he purchased his 'new' press from the Denver Mint). I think I was able to find ONE from a gracious board member. Received raw from DCarr (as is normal), they got sent to ANACS, both from Moonlight Mint 69'ed, and got the special insert (sold 3rd one raw). I really love this particular design, given it's backstory, with DCarr 'casing' the Denver Mint out, taking photos, getting the specifics of the building down to a 'T'.....kinda like a terrorist...lol (NOT calling you a terrorist, Mr. Carr, I appreciate the effort you put into this piece, and it shows...just a little twisted humor)....but I believe he WAS actually stopped and confronted (not exactly sure of the exact story...perhaps Mr. Carr can ring in and elaborate, hopefully), but the effort that went into getting this particular design just perfect, that he wanted the design to be as exact as possible, it made the pieces special, I thought. But, as we all know, most of the time when the right price comes along, you accept it to put something else in your collection, a real collector coin, especially when the profit is so great, so I parted with mine (it was still tough, even with the 'offer I couldn't refuse'. Still wish I had the set (they were in my box of 20 of non legal tender, they were the star of that box, even with an NGC graded HK-19 in it, and that's an $800-$1,000 SCD...mine was NGC 62PL). >>
I wasn't actually "confronted". But the guards were certainly standing at the ready and watching closely (about 100 feet away) when I stuck my camera between the bars of the outer fence to get a better picture of the side of the building. This was on a quiet Sunday afternoon when nobody else was around.
<< <i>It's a sharp looking medallion (which the mint SHOULD have done on their own), with a very small mintage of 50 on the satin finish (even a 150 mintage for the proof is small). Finding more than 1 or 2 would be a major coupe, believe me. And yes, let's not forget, these were made in '06, when silver was what, under $9 all year, avg, so it did cost many multiples of spot, compared to his silver pieces minted now, which don't. With spot near $30 oz, that puts intrinsic value of the 90% silver Kennedys, at up to about 2.75X spot today (2 bulk handled are $80), where in '06, this medallion was over 6.5X spot, even the '64-D Peace $ (which I think will still run second to these Denver medallions) was cheaper, per spot price/weight. Yes, the selling price was relatively high, % wise, but actual cost was cheap, and these weren't/aren't bought as bullion. It matters not what the intrinsic value of most/all of his pieces are.....it's about mintage, artistry, and giving collectors controversial pieces they want...let's face it, there have been great point/counterpoint discussions on some of his pieces (his '64-D hit a real nerve with some).
Mr. Carr states these Kennedy's are the cheapest offerings he's had, except for the Buffalo broadstrikes. Overall, I feel that, even at the original issue cost (I believe it was about $50 ea), this Denver piece, sold (at time of issue) for comparable $$ that the 'bulk' Kennedy's are now selling for. At $40 for bulk handled, and $85 for 'high grade'...the price on high grade makes issue price on these Denver medallions look cheap, especially where mine both got a 69 at ANACS, and the high grade Kennedy's are 'consistent with a 67+ grade'...a lower grade than the Denver medallion. But, with the Denver medallion being ONE FULL OUNCE of .999 silver (and under a half oz of 90% for the Kennedys), coupled with the Denver design NOT being something that could be argued to be a counterfeit, the 'behind the scenes' adventure...... I consider this his best work, even nicer than his 'overstrikes', or other designs, given the entire spectrum of getting this piece minted.
Now I'm going to have to find another set (highly unlikely)....along with another HK-19, now that our hosts slab SCD's (which I feel this Denver Mint commem piece should/could be considered..next SCD book (in what, 30 years?)..lol) >>
A side note I would like to add is, the 2006 Denver Mint Centennial medals were relatively easy to make. The design and sculpting were a bit of a challenge, but the stamping part was easy. In comparison, the over-striking of existing coins is much more difficult to get it to come out right. There are many more steps in the producton process for a fantasy-date over-strike than there are for straight silver rounds.
<< <i>Wouldn't it be neat if Dan produced a trillion dollar fantasy coin? Of course some here would claim it's a counterfeit even when there is no real counterpart. >>
I'll soon be working on a couple new "Hard Times" tokens, and that will be one of them.