How Much Is Too Much ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · December 8, 2012 2:09AM

If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay

lava · December 8, 2012 2:12AM

The coin is low pop in any grade?

Unknown · December 8, 2012 2:13AM

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crypto79 · December 8, 2012 2:14AM

While I am not part of the group that thinks capitalism is perfect and the cure for every economic ailment, I do beleive that this is one situation where supply and demand is the perfect framework and needs no regulation to be effective. It's a hobby if it is too much move on.

BillJones · December 8, 2012 2:20AM

I have learned to ignore the activities of such people. It improves my life by ignoring them. They are going to do what they going to do. When the leaders have something 15,000,000 registry points total (all sets and coins), and I have just under 700,000, you can see how big a gap there is between good and world class.

I take pride in putting together a first class display of my coins. Every piece has is pictured and all most all of them have a historical commentary. Most of the big guys never post a picture or a description. They just have a list dates, mint marks and grades.

This past year I was very fortunate to finish first in the registry ATS for the U.S. gold type set 1795 to 1933. It will be a one year occurrence because my collection has reached its highest level. All it will take will be one of the really big guys to find another Proof gold coin, I'll be somewhere below #1. That's okay. I had one great year.

RYK · December 8, 2012 2:20AM

If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

I believe that greater than 99.9% of the hobbyists are largely or completely unaffected by this scenario, so it has no material affect on the hobby, per se. Similarly, two wealthy car collectors competing for a vintage Ferrari have no affect on the value and utility of my Prius.

lkeigwin · December 8, 2012 2:21AM

It's a free market. I'm not sure how anything could be done about it regardless.
Lance.

USMoneylover · December 8, 2012 2:26AM

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

>>

Gonna have to agree with Realone here

I don't watch MTV cribs and don't care what rich a$$holes want to spend their money on.
Sure, I would love a 1792 half disme in SP67, but it's out of my reach....I'm OK with that.
P.S I think wealth redistribution is BS too!

BillJones · December 8, 2012 2:33AM

The only things that really upset me have to do with the rules that those who run the registries make. When they give a disproportionate number of registry points to modern coins in high grade and short change much rarer early coins in grades from VF to AU for marketing reasons, it is aggravating. When they allow a guy to put a Mint State 1804 restrike cent in the Draped Bust cent (1796 - 1807) slot and give him big points for posting a 19th century counterfeit in place of the real thing, that's wrong. But if you can't do anything about it you just ignore it, and you don't worry about moving up in the standings because the point system is rigged.

As for the wealthy guys paying very high prices for POP-1 coins, that just the market. You can't and really shouldn't do anything about it. You might get a chuckle, however, if you note that lose their shirt when they sell because they paid too much.

astrorat · December 8, 2012 2:35AM

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy?

PTVETTER · December 8, 2012 2:35AM

He who has the deepest pockets will win every time.

We all have to get use to it.

Remember it's a Hobby and should be thought of that way.. NOT an investment!

RYK · December 8, 2012 2:35AM

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy? >>

I was wondering that, too, but let it go. He's on a roll.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · December 8, 2012 2:43AM

When the unscrupulous telemarketers sold coins with a low pop for large sums of money to the unknowing it was called a crime.
I believe they were prosecuted and made to pay restitution.

When Bernie Madoff made off with 50 billion dollars of OPM it was a crime. Even though most of the people could afford to lose money and it was their fault for trusting Bernie.

Then why should someone who is immoral,a liar, and a cheat be allowed to gag a rich A$$hole ?

Stewart

astrorat · December 8, 2012 2:46AM

<< When the unscrupulous telemarketers sold coins with a low pop for large sums of money to the unknowing it was called a crime.
I believe they were prosecuted and made to pay restitution.

When Bernie Madoff made off with 50 billion dollars of OPM it was a crime. Even though most of the people could afford to lose money and it was their fault for trusting Bernie.

Then why should someone who is immoral,a liar, and a cheat be allowed to gag a rich A$$hole ?

Stewart >>

They should be allowed to gag a rich a$$hole. In fact, they should be allowed to gag all a$$holes.

Unknown · December 8, 2012 2:53AM

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Coinosaurus · December 8, 2012 2:55AM

I think what the OP is getting at, is the case of a random billionaire getting very interested in coins, dropping millions into the market in a short period of time, paying "stupid" money for various things, and then bailing not too much later. The point is that it may be better for the coin market as a whole if we are dealing only with knowledgable, long term players.

There is another undercurrent here - there is a class of items within numismatics that don't get "sold," they get "placed." For these items, WHO you are is more important than how much money you have. You are only supposed to get a chance at them if you are an upstanding coin citizen of long repute. So when items in that class end up going to the highest bidder, people can get miffed. I have a few things like this, not necessarily valuable, but things that are extraordinarily hard to find, and when they move on I want them to go to people who properly appreciate them, even if someone else is willing to pay a little bit more.

Unknown · December 8, 2012 3:01AM

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PerryHall · December 8, 2012 3:06AM

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy?

RYK · December 8, 2012 3:07AM

Coinosaurus, thank you for the explanation. In that context, it makes much more sense. Some people, like the OP, become the face of the hobby, as it were, and probably do deserve special consideration because of their long term stewardship. It is disruptive when the ability to pay or receive an outsized premium for a coin disrupts the normal flow of coins. From what I have seen, these disruptions tend to be short-lived.

However, some folks appear to be wound a bit too tight and take all of this way too seriously, IMO.

coinkat · December 8, 2012 3:08AM

This is a hobby- and your question, IMHO, largely depends on the coin and its rarity and condition rarity.

For real collectors, it has virtually no impact other than to have some collector, such as myself, respond in the following manner:

For investors and those that live and breath plastic, my only comment is that there are fools with too much money with the lack the depth to really appreciate the design, artistic merit and overall appeal of the coin and merely seek a numeric grade that can best be described as the Readers Digest condensed version reduced to a number on plastic that suggests the coin may be one of the finest known. It all boils down to the search for what is perceived to be the best or finest- even though the subjective component associated with grading may never establish what is the finest.

RYK · December 8, 2012 3:09AM

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy? >>

I guess if you, as the seller, are offering a coin for way beyond what is reasonable it may be considered greedy.

Type2 · December 8, 2012 3:09AM

Well you can look at it this way too. That greedy collector does not want to let it go only if that rich guy or girl pays some crazy price. But it is what it is the pecking order at work.

I am not rich but if a Rich collector ask me to sell a coin and i dont need it i'll sell it or i can just say no and keep it as lone as i can.

ambro51 · December 8, 2012 3:19AM

Pennies

Elcontador · December 8, 2012 3:24AM

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

I am very liberal about things such as the above, which do not affect me personally. If someone wants to spend $1,000,000 on a $100,000 coin, flush his money down the toilet, or move to the South Pole and start up a penguin farm, so be it.

RYK · December 8, 2012 3:26AM

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

I am very liberal about things such as the above, which do not affect me personally. If someone wants to spend $1,000,000 on a $100,000 coin, flush his money down the toilet, or move to the South Pole and start up a penguin farm, so be it. >>

I agree with most of your statement but have to draw the line at the penguin farm. My daughter is a serious penguin enthusiast and would have great concern about the ecologic balance of the fragile penguin life cycle if they were subject to farming.

Sonorandesertrat · December 8, 2012 3:40AM

A penguin farm? Are they good eating?

stealer · December 8, 2012 3:43AM

<< 

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy? >>

I was wondering that, too, but let it go. He's on a roll.

>>

Two threads already

Baley · December 8, 2012 3:50AM

I must be dense. Could someone please explain in clear English words exactly what the rich a$$hole did that made the OP unhappy?

If it's a behavior that is terrible for "the hobby", I will cry out along with the OP. If it is terrible for the OP, I may shed a crocodile tear and play my tiny violin.

vibr0nic · December 8, 2012 3:54AM

Anyone can ask any price for anything.

If the buyer is happy to have the coin at a stupid price, then so be it.

It's not up to us to police the prices that other people pay for collectibles.

yellowkid · December 8, 2012 3:56AM

Let him overpay, and let him take the loss when he sells it. I try not to worry about what the wealthy

JCMhouston · December 8, 2012 4:07AM

If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

I really am not sure what the issue is here. If I have something really rare and a rich guy wants to pay me an absurd amount of money for it what would be the problem? If the coin showed up in an auction then the same thing could/would happen and we would all be applauding a market gone wild.

While not of my coins are really expensive I do have one 19th C. Taler in proof which is the only one currently certified. Although there is a big discussion (big within the context of a dozen or so people that care) about whether any of these are actually proofs a few have been graded PL, and mine was very recently graded as a proof. Another collector has recently approached me about buying it for a considerable profit but it's still not an absurd enough amount to get me to sell it. Maybe one day he will reach that level and then I woud be happy to let it go, I just don't know what the amount is yet.

Type2 · December 8, 2012 4:18AM

RB1026 · December 8, 2012 4:33AM

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

Sorry, I prefer capitalism even though I often find myself on the wrong side of it

ColonelJessup · December 8, 2012 4:47AM

<< ..... or move to the South Pole and start up a penguin farm, so be it.....

I agree with most of your statement but have to draw the line at the penguin farm. My daughter is a serious penguin enthusiast and would have great concern about the ecologic balance of the fragile penguin life cycle if they were subject to farming.

>>

I'm having a flashback to the 50's -60's cartoon "L'il Abner" and the mystical schmoo (plural schmoon). A loving lovable little arctic beast which, at a blink, could transform itself into a haunch of savory healthful cooked lunch.

But penguins? Bambi's Mom sure, but my guess is that only Rhea Perlman and Bruce Wayne know if Penguin meat is worth farming

lava · December 8, 2012 4:56AM

I'm not sure why in this scenario the one guy's motives are any less scrupulous than the other guy's motives.

PerryHall · December 8, 2012 6:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< If there is a Set Registry coin that is a very low pop coin ,do you think it is good or bad for the hobby if a there is an extraordinarily greedy offer that is persued by rich A$$hole ?

Or how much is too much ?

My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ?

Stewart Blay >>

How can an offer be greedy? >>

I guess if you, as the seller, are offering a coin for way beyond what is reasonable it may be considered greedy. >>

Is the offer being made by the owner to a prospective buyer or is someone making the owner an offer so they can add it to their set? I took it to be the second scenario but it's unclear what's happening here.

BryceM · December 8, 2012 6:43AM

What a strange thread.

Penguins probably taste like chicken. Everything else does.........

As for what the uber-rich do, who cares? If they want to spend outlandish, ridiculous sums on coins, let them. Their cumulative efforts will prop up all levels of the market. A strong argument could be made that this has already happened. Even if something could or should be done about it, who is going to be annointed guardian and keeper of the sacred coins? Such a person would of necessity be duly authorized to allow or prohibit any desired transaction.

Imposing limits on free trade between willing individuals often has nasty, un-intended consequences. I can cite roughly 435 examples, which is one for every current sitting member of Congress.

Liberty people! Come on, it says it right there on the coin...... er....... at least it used to.

copperhunter · December 8, 2012 7:01AM

I am not going to feel bad for the 1%ers out there. Let them throw their money away!

bidask · December 8, 2012 7:28AM

I think its great for the coin hobby.....I love outliers.

tradedollarnut · December 8, 2012 7:36AM

Stewart:

I do understand where you are coming from. When the sale of the Amon Carter 1794 to Cardinal was announced, I also made a bit of an ass of myself complaining about how it was simply too high and just didn't make sense. It gives you as a collector an overwhelming feeling of loss to realize that certain coins are going to be forever beyond your reach as the result of such a transaction.

But, it's always going to happen. So you just have to be happy that the value of your set is going up and forget about ever getting certain coins.

AMRC · December 8, 2012 7:44AM

It is not your money, or your coin and I find it hard to believe that the only issue is that this is "terrible for the hobby" is a bunch of verdigris and like verdigris is covering something up. Anyone can ask anything they want for a coin, and anyone can pay whatever they decide to pay and it has nothing to do with you EXCEPT that maybe you would like that coin at a lower price.

BigMoose · December 8, 2012 7:52AM

Stewart, I just laugh at those guys who buy top pops for exorbitant money with no eye for the true quality of the coin. They will find out soon enough what their coins are really worth. the collectors I admire are those who have a great eye for true quality and pay up for great coins regardless of numerical grade.

tradedollarnut · December 8, 2012 8:02AM

<< It is not your money, or your coin and I find it hard to believe that the only issue is that this is "terrible for the hobby" is a bunch of verdigris and like verdigris is covering something up. Anyone can ask anything they want for a coin, and anyone can pay whatever they decide to pay and it has nothing to do with you EXCEPT that maybe you would like that coin at a lower price. >>

Not necessarily that particular coin as the top pops all tend to feed off of one another.

mgoodm3 · December 8, 2012 8:17AM

As with all deals you can say yes or no. If you spend too much and take it in the shorts at resale, it's your own fault.

WTCG · December 8, 2012 8:32AM

The OP has been around long enough to know not to rant and should have a sense of perspective about how things happen.

In a nutshell...Seeker wants the coin, needs the coin + top quality + no supply + seller knows his coin is highly coveted = high asking price. It's simple really.

Jcarney · December 8, 2012 8:51AM

<< A penguin farm? Are they good eating? >>

Delicious, with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

mrpotatoheadd · December 8, 2012 8:54AM

<< My feeling is this kind of behavior is terrible for the hobby. It is abuse and it should be prevented.

What do you think ? >>

I think you think people shouldn't be allowed to buy/sell coins for prices you don't agree with. I also think you are going to end up frustrated and disappointed if you insist that people not buy/sell coins for prices you don't agree with.

BillJones · December 8, 2012 9:11AM

I detect a bit of envy and unhappiness from those who would like to have the #1 collection on the registry. My response is, accept it. For 99% of us there is always going to be a collector with more resources and willingness to work the registry point system to be #1.

I have a complete type set ATS, and I'm the only collector who has done that, yet I'll never be #1. Why? First, my tastes run toward really nice early U.S. coins, and those coins don't get much bang for the buck when it comes to registry points. You are better off buying a Type I Standing Liberty quarter in MS-67 and a 1796 Quarter in Good-4, than you are buying a Type I Standing Liberty quarter in MS-65 and 1796 Quarter in VF-25. I know that because a guy ATS beats me with that combination. The low grade 1796 Quarter and MS-67 1917 Type I quarter costs a lot less too. His Gobrecht dollar is a Fine while mine is a PR-62, but he beats me with his other early 20th century coins in MS-67 while my pieces are MS and PR-65 and 66s.

Then "a whale" showed up with some "real coins." His Liberty Cap Large cent (1793 to 1796) is in MS-64, Brown, while mine is MS-62, Brown. I can't beat that so I don't do any more upgrades with the hope of rising in the registry standards. I have best presented set with 100% of the coins photographed with historical notes and the only 100% complete set. I take pride in that and let the "blue whales" rule the registry.

Elcontador · December 9, 2012 3:19AM

It's Sunday morning, and I have reviewed the entire thread. Please take the following as you wish:

1) I started collecting coins in the 1960s. There were always coins I could not afford or did not buy, because someone else was willing to pay more for them than I was willing to pay. That's part of the hobby.
2) The comparison to Madoff to someone purchasing a coin is at the minimum, disingenuous. Madoff out and out stole money from people and organizations. People got pieces of paper, not investments, from Madoff. No one is putting a gun to someone's head and forcing him to buy a coin. At least with the coin, the highest bidder is getting the goods promised.
3) I don't know how penguins taste. I have eaten gator, water buffalo, and a dog. I think it is fair to state that if you cooked it right, you can make any dish taste good.

How Much Is Too Much ?

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