how do you determine how much damage makes a coin ungradeable ?

I think PCGS would grade it and treat that edge nick as a bag mark when determining the grade.

<< <i>I have learned as long as a rim bump doesn't distort the denticles the coin will usually grade. >>


PCGS is pretty lenient for rim bumps on older and scarcer coins. They can be visible and distort the denticles greatly and still grade fine.

Welcome Lion02!

First off you need to tell the grade on the holder that it is in now if you want to know if the coin is "ungradeable." You also need to show us the obverse.

If the obverse is similar to the reverse, and this coin is in an MS-61 or even MS-62, it might be "upgradeable." If it is in an MS-63 or 64 holder, it probably is not. When I was a dealer I noted that rim marks like this on a silver dollar often knocked down the Mint State grade by at least a point. In other words if the coin would have graded MS-64 without the rim nick, if it had one of two of these type of edge marks, it was graded MS-63 or even 62.

This may seem unfair, but it's still a factor. If this coin is a rare date and mint mark combination, the grading often gets tougher. If there is a BIG price increase between an MS-63 and MS-64 or if it depends upon the MS-64 and 65 grades, often the services get more conservative. For example I handed a number of MS-63 graded 1879-CC dollars that probably would have graded MS-64 if it had been a more common date.

This is a good thing because in the "good old days" some dealers used to get "fast and lose" with the grades when it was a better date. That was wrong because you should pay high prices only for the rare date. You should not be subject to a "double wammie" with an inflated grade as well.

In answer to your question I've seen dollars with edge marks like this have grades, but the mark is usually a one or two point dedection. One thing that would make this coin "ungradeable" would be if someone had tried to file this mark off the coin. Filed rims would make it an instant "no grade."

I think that PCGS will grade it. I believe that it should make MS-63, but no higher. The obverse really is an MS-63 without the rim nick, but the nick is on the reverse and does not "scream at you." If the same nick were on the obverse below that date, that could be a problem.

did you happen to buy this coin in baltimore, looks awful familiar. A freind of mine who went with me sold off a bunch of toners and I beleive this was his coin?

Welcome aboard lion02....Cheers, RickO

Thanx...to everyone's Welcome and I am here because a very good friend thought I would have fun reading and contributing. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to maneuver around on this Forum and what all those symbols mean. I am on other Forums but this one is set up differently.....now back to the question at hand..... I am very old school and grade very conservatively and also go on first impressions. As for the damaged area to me it makes a difference as to whether the planchet originally was produced with this problem area or whether it happen after the minting process.....and what else I notice on the reverse which does not appeal to me( remember what we all see can be different and how we arrive at a net grade is determined by grading standards and eye appeal)is the bag mark across the eagle's head...in the eyebrow area.....I myself would not buy this coin!!! But again it's just my opinion and that along with a dime will not buy you a cup of coffee.....
Take it easy.....Leo

I'm just saying that since their we're so many made and they were handled poorly(loose in bags of $1,000.00)... For me I would hold out for a better coin to add to my holding. As we all know...grading should be objective but it usually never is and if you want to see a grading guide which is more conservative in its standards get a hold of a copy of Brown and Dunn(sp.).
Also I have been a member of EAC for over 27 years and the standards we use are ultra-conservative and coins, once they are 'Sharpness Graded' can be heavily downgraded due to copper being very reactive to the forces of nature and thus have many problems to arrive at a 'Net Grade'. Also across the board it takes years of studying and looking at thousands of coins to learn to see the 'Sharpness Grade' of a coin and then deducting for issues...and copper can drop considerably in grade and value. Remember the Grading Scale being used in the industry comes from Dr. William Sheldon and was originally formulated to attempt to arrive at a way to price Early American Copper coins.....
Take it easy.....Leo

Oh, btw...what does TPG...stand for???

I look at the coin. If it's damage, it had better be worth a lot of money (considerng the costs) for me to warrant the expense of encapsulation. It might be less expense to find an already slabbed specimen with better eye appeal than what I'm considering, as well. There are so many variables and facets to the question.
But the key for me is a matter of "will the buyer" or eventual owner enjoy the coin outside of the holder, too ? Perhaps I'm jaded. All coins are gradeable. It's just that the POWER HOUSES won't assign a grade, and henceforth the "details grade". This is a giant step for the hobby and it is "tuition" for each individual on a case by case basis. I love this part of our "free enterprise system".
If the reason for submitting is "tuition", then well and good. This is perfectly fine and in conjunction with protecting the hobby as each person deems necessary. Kudos to those who see this way. As for me, I don't want to waste a cent on something that isn't worth the cost. It's "cointerproductive" and I have budgetary coinstraints out the wazoo.

<< <i>

<< <i>Oh, btw...what does TPG...stand for??? >>



Third Party Grading like PCGS or NGC. >>



Thank you kindly for the abbreviation...defined!!!
Take it easy.....Lion