Can't believe I forgot about the 1917 MPL... or any 1917 proofs for that matter. I know there are certified examples. Or at least I think there are. Some while back I saw a picture of an ANACS 1917 proof buffalo.
<< <i>I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand. >>
<< <i>I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand. >>
Sounds like bourse room bull sheet.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Can't believe I forgot about the 1917 MPL... or any 1917 proofs for that matter. I know there are certified examples. Or at least I think there are. Some while back I saw a picture of an ANACS 1917 proof buffalo. >>
The existence of 1917 coins with a matte proof-like appearance along with differing opinions from the experts over the years have certianly fueled the debate. It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue.
Regarding the 64-D dollar, shouldn't that be "coins with rumored non-existence?"
I mean- nobody disputes that the coins were struck, do they? And the proof offered of their non-existence is the government's claim that they were all destroyed, right? And this claim was shown to be erroneous when a couple of examples turned up later, wasn't it?
According to the Norte Dame Colonial Coins website, there is supposedly Colonial period documentation for a base metal token that circulated in Massachusetts c. 1700-04 or so. No examples have ever been found but that website speculated they might resemble the crude lead tokens of England.
..... and there are dozens who claim to have seen Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Santa Claus, UFOs, and flying monkeys. Show me the money!!! Maybe the 64-D still exists and maybe it doesn't. Given the fiasco with the 33 Saints, I doubt will be seeing any of them in the open any time soon.
It is curious to me though that nobody has been able to provide much in terms of details, rims, strike, etc. You'd think maybe that someone could have obtained or leaked a photo of one at some point. I'd really like to be proven wrong.
Any one have anything on an unc. 1-oz. 1999-w $50 Gold Eagle? This coin was mentioned in passing by I don't remember whom here on the forum years ago that one was struck. Greysheet does show there is a bid out on this coin.
U.S. Philippines 10 Centavo 1910-S. One was reported as having been seen in Manila Mint collection in the 30's by prominent Philippine Collector. The Manila Mint was bombed/ detroyed in Dec. 1941. No real community vetted specimen is known in any collection.
Many Counterfeits abound. Three have been slabbed, two by PCGS which later were renounced as counterfeit. One by NGC MS55 and is still extant, but has never come out to be re-examined even by photo.. " None are listed in the Director of the Mint's report as having been struck".
Most counterfeits are made from 1918-S 10 centavos and possibly 1911'S
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
I read an article recently about the secret service, and it says the secret service is on the look out for any serviving 1964-D peace dollar. That was one of the dumbest things I have ever heard 'cause the mint claimed that the total mintage was completely destroyed.
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
Now remember -- just for the sake of argument !!!
Drunner >>
Wow!!!! You have quite an imagination.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm not trying to start a rumor, but it's interesting to note that two pairs each of 1858, 1860, and 1861 quarter eagle head and tail dies were sent to the Dahlonega Mint, yet no examples are known (nor were reported to authorities). Another interesting factoid is that the June 14, 1861 inventory of the Dahlonega Mint listed six half-dollar ingot molds as being present in the Melt Room. All of this makes for some interesting speculation, if only to ponder "what might have been."
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
Three silver Dismes are said to exist. 1) Junque but identifiable 2) The Parmelee coin VF with obverse scratches (Oh that MrEureka!) 3) A coin Breen said he saw (or heard about) 50+ years ago that's supposed to be really nice, but never called a specimen by him. So more likely he heard about it than saw it.
One Specimen copper Disme has been PCGS graded 64, but there are many more (20+?) of this issue. I don't believe any of the others are classified as specimens
There is also a silver Specimen Half Disme which appeared in an auction within the last decade. I recall it also being a 64. Either the Pogues or a dealer/collector (who might not want his name bruited about) bought it for just under a mil.
Both of the latter should be in the Pops.
edited to add: The specimen half disme is a 67, not a 64. Props to mrhalfdime and Analyst]
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Julian: <<I feel that an 1870-s quarter exists or was struck. >>
It has been widely discussed that Nancy Oliver & Richard Kelly found a document that suggests an 1870-S quarter was struck. Did they find this document in 2004?
Prethen: <<I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand.>>
I have never heard such a statement and I am skeptical. Is Prethen referring to knowledgeable dealers in the mainstream?
Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales.
Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist.
Colonel Jessup: <<There is also a silver Specimen Half Disme which appeared in an auction within the last decade. I recall it also being a 64. ... for just under a mil. >>
The Floyd Starr 1792 Half Disme is PCGS certified SP-67. Heritage auctioned it in April 2006 for $1,322,500. My guess is that Colonel Jessup was present at the Stack’s sale of the Floyd Starr Collection in October 1992, when this piece appeared earlier.
insightful10 gmail
"In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
"The Floyd Starr 1792 Half Disme is PCGS certified SP-67. Heritage auctioned it in April 2006 for $1,322,500." "... the Stack’s sale of the Floyd Starr Collection in October 1992, when this piece appeared earlier."
This coin most certainly does exist, and I have studied it up close and personal at an ANA Summer Convention in recent years (perhaps in 2006). It is absolutely gorgeous. The forum member who can tell us much more about this coin is Firstmint, who was somehow involved in its sale.
They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke They weren't clad but on forty - percent silver stock.
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets."
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke They weren't clad but on forty - percent silver stock.
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets." >>
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke They weren't clad but on forty - percent silver stock.
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets." >>
Thanks Caleb! That's what I meant >>
You are welcome.
Did the Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton actually produce those ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets? UNKOWN
If he did, are the ten trial strikes still sitting somewhere? UNKNOWN
<< <i>Any one have anything on an unc. 1-oz. 1999-w $50 Gold Eagle? This coin was mentioned in passing by I don't remember whom here on the forum years ago that one was struck. Greysheet does show there is a bid out on this coin. >>
I know, very well, the numismatist who saw it when it walked into a coin firm. He says it was genuine, but the owner would not sell it. I believe him.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i> Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales. >>
I have heard many, many reputable numismatists relate to the story that towards the end of Breen's life a small monetary bribe would grant you his signature to just about anything you wanted to be said about your coin.
<< <i>Any one have anything on an unc. 1-oz. 1999-w $50 Gold Eagle? This coin was mentioned in passing by I don't remember whom here on the forum years ago that one was struck. Greysheet does show there is a bid out on this coin. >>
I know, very well, the numismatist who saw it when it walked into a coin firm. He says it was genuine, but the owner would not sell it. I believe him.
TD >>
Thanks, I suppose it's still all hearsay. Maybe there is more than one, maybe not. Will the owner ever have it graded is the question.
<< <i> Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales. >>
I have heard many, many reputable numismatists relate to the story that towards the end of Breen's life a small monetary bribe would grant you his signature to just about anything you wanted to be said about your coin. >>
In the mid '80's (pre-PCGS) several people combined to purchase a 1917 5c in a Bowers sale in a two coin lot with a '24-S or 27-S 5c, which (LOL) turned out to fake. The lot cost was less than $400.
The 1917 was, to my mind, as well as those of the others who co-owned it, an incontrovertible proof with the diagnostic die chip coming out of the top of the D and the scratch on the flat part of the reverse rim from 7:30 to 8:30. The piece had every attribute of a satin proof including the finish. One of the partners was a founder of PCGS and die variety expert. I've discussed this piece with him several times over the past decades and the general sense of our conversations was that he remained totally convinced that the the coin carried its own credentials but would never be attributed as a proof because of a lack of mint records ever mentioning its existence.
Haven't seen the coin for 25+ years since it was sold in a MARCG auction for maybe $6000+. Maybe some day it will show up and be classified as a "specimen".
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Not rumored, but since we're just making stuff up, how about an 1893-CC dime, quarter or half, or a 1909-O $2-1/2, $10 or $20?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>What about the possible existence of a second 1870-S $3.00 gold? >>
There was supposedly one put in the San Francisco Mint cornerstone but has never been recovered.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
<< <i>A Google search for “1805 U.S. Dollar” brings up the following:
1805 Silver Dollar Surfaced in 2008 >>
Well, Goldberg's sold a nicely altered one a while back:
Goldberg auction of 1805 altered date dollar
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Can't believe I forgot about the 1917 MPL... or any 1917 proofs for that matter. I know there are certified examples. Or at least I think there are. Some while back I saw a picture of an ANACS 1917 proof buffalo.
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand. >>
Which dealers have conclusively seen one?
<< <i>
<< <i>of course the 1964-D Peace dollar. >>
Yeah was gonna say this, I've heard rumors that someone around here has one in their collection, >>
Probably one of those counterfeits made recently, no doubt.
<< <i>I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand. >>
Sounds like bourse room bull sheet.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>of course the 1964-D Peace dollar. >>
Yeah was gonna say this, I've heard rumors that someone around here has one in their collection, >>
Probably one of those [...] made recently, no doubt. >>
That's not a rumor
<< <i>What a great read this turned into.
Can't believe I forgot about the 1917 MPL... or any 1917 proofs for that matter. I know there are certified examples. Or at least I think there are. Some while back I saw a picture of an ANACS 1917 proof buffalo. >>
The existence of 1917 coins with a matte proof-like appearance along with differing opinions from the experts over the years have certianly fueled the debate. It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue.
I mean- nobody disputes that the coins were struck, do they? And the proof offered of their non-existence is the government's claim that they were all destroyed, right? And this claim was shown to be erroneous when a couple of examples turned up later, wasn't it?
Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. If we're not sure they have been all destroyed, they just might exist
<< <i>I can name three dealers that I would bet my house that they have seen 64-D Peace in hand. >>
What if they don't back you up? I've known people who've lost multiple houses in bets
It is curious to me though that nobody has been able to provide much in terms of details, rims, strike, etc. You'd think maybe that someone could have obtained or leaked a photo of one at some point. I'd really like to be proven wrong.
U.S. Philippines 10 Centavo 1910-S. One was reported as having been seen in Manila Mint collection in the 30's by prominent Philippine Collector. The Manila Mint was bombed/ detroyed in Dec. 1941. No real community vetted specimen is known in any collection.
Many Counterfeits abound. Three have been slabbed, two by PCGS which later were renounced as counterfeit. One by NGC MS55 and is still extant, but has never come out to be re-examined even by photo.. " None are listed in the Director of the Mint's report as having been struck".
Most counterfeits are made from 1918-S 10 centavos and possibly 1911'S
Krueger
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
Now remember -- just for the sake of argument !!!
Drunner
<< <i>Great thread.
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
Now remember -- just for the sake of argument !!!
Drunner >>
Wow!!!! You have quite an imagination.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Great thread.
Let's just suppose something. Just for the sake of argument.
An ex-ANA President of some note has been able to hold both in his hands. He is fully aware of their existence and also the location of same. Both are held in strong hands and with collectors who many would know by reputation. Both owners are very aware of the ramifications if their possession became known or suspected.
Now, would you need to reveal anything to anyone on a public chatroom with photos, corroboration, or any type of verification to a bunch of schmucks who would then only clamor to find out WHO owned them, would fuel the debate with rampant suspicion, and ramp up the threads to another degree?
If you can own one of the two 1964-D Peace Dollars, you really don't need to satisfy anyone here of anything. And frankly, no one outside of here really knows or cares.
No . . . don't hold your breath for either of them to just advertise possession or verify the suspicions or desires of a chatroom community. 'Black' numismatics doesn't answer to the PCGS Boards.
Now remember -- just for the sake of argument !!!
Drunner >>
Wow!!!! You have quite an imagination.
Who says he's imagining anything?
Three silver Dismes are said to exist.
1) Junque but identifiable
2) The Parmelee coin VF with obverse scratches (Oh that MrEureka!)
3) A coin Breen said he saw (or heard about) 50+ years ago that's supposed to be really nice, but never called a specimen by him. So more likely he heard about it than saw it.
One Specimen copper Disme has been PCGS graded 64, but there are many more (20+?) of this issue. I don't believe any of the others are classified as specimens
There is also a silver Specimen Half Disme which appeared in an auction within the last decade. I recall it also being a 64. Either the Pogues or a dealer/collector (who might not want his name bruited about) bought it for just under a mil.
Both of the latter should be in the Pops.
edited to add: The specimen half disme is a 67, not a 64. Props to mrhalfdime and Analyst]
It has been widely discussed that Nancy Oliver & Richard Kelly found a document that suggests an 1870-S quarter was struck. Did they find this document in 2004?
Prethen: <<I have heard dealers swear that they have conclusively seen or worked with a dealer they strongly trust that has seen a 1964-D Peace Dollar in hand.>>
I have never heard such a statement and I am skeptical. Is Prethen referring to knowledgeable dealers in the mainstream?
Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales.
Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist.
Colonel Jessup: <<There is also a silver Specimen Half Disme which appeared in an auction within the last decade. I recall it also being a 64. ... for just under a mil. >>
The Floyd Starr 1792 Half Disme is PCGS certified SP-67. Heritage auctioned it in April 2006 for $1,322,500. My guess is that Colonel Jessup was present at the Stack’s sale of the Floyd Starr Collection in October 1992, when this piece appeared earlier.
insightful10 gmail
"... the Stack’s sale of the Floyd Starr Collection in October 1992, when this piece appeared earlier."
This coin most certainly does exist, and I have studied it up close and personal at an ANA Summer Convention in recent years (perhaps in 2006). It is absolutely gorgeous. The forum member who can tell us much more about this coin is Firstmint, who was somehow involved in its sale.
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Check out page 102.
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets."
<< <i>
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets." >>
Thanks Caleb! That's what I meant
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Zoins: <<1970 clad Peace dollars ... Clad Peace dollars were struck in 1970 but presumably all destroyed. >>
What is the source for this bit of information? Is this a joke?
While it has been a few years since I read Roger Burdette’s book on Peace Dollars, I do not remember any discussion of 1970 Peace Dollars. He does devote considerable space to 1964-D Peace Dollars, which he doubts still exist. >>
Kind of a joke
On Feb 19, 1970, "U.S. Mint Director Mary Brooks instructs Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton to produce ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets." >>
Thanks Caleb! That's what I meant
You are welcome.
Did the Philadelphia Mint Superintendent Nicholas G. Thornton actually produce those ten trial strikes of the Peace dollar design on 40 percent silver planchets? UNKOWN
If he did, are the ten trial strikes still sitting somewhere? UNKNOWN
But it sure would be nice to own one!
<< <i>Any one have anything on an unc. 1-oz. 1999-w $50 Gold Eagle? This coin was mentioned in passing by I don't remember whom here on the forum years ago that one was struck. Greysheet does show there is a bid out on this coin. >>
I know, very well, the numismatist who saw it when it walked into a coin firm. He says it was genuine, but the owner would not sell it. I believe him.
TD
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>
Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales.
>>
I have heard many, many reputable numismatists relate to the story that towards the end of Breen's life a small monetary bribe would grant you his signature to just about anything you wanted to be said about your coin.
<< <i>Did anyone here say 1964 franklins yet? >>
Ah, I guess you beat me to it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any one have anything on an unc. 1-oz. 1999-w $50 Gold Eagle? This coin was mentioned in passing by I don't remember whom here on the forum years ago that one was struck. Greysheet does show there is a bid out on this coin. >>
I know, very well, the numismatist who saw it when it walked into a coin firm. He says it was genuine, but the owner would not sell it. I believe him.
TD >>
Thanks, I suppose it's still all hearsay. Maybe there is more than one, maybe not. Will the owner ever have it graded is the question.
<< <i>Regarding the 64-D dollar, shouldn't that be "coins with rumored non-existence?" >>
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
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Black Diamond: <<It would be nice if documentation either proving or disproving the existence of 1917 proofs would surface. Pigs may fly before that happens though. Until then, let the debate continue. >>
I am not aware of such a debate. Years ago, Breen authenticated an extremely small number of 1917 coins as Matte Proofs. Since he did so, experts seem to be in agreement that Breen made mistakes regarding these or he felt pressured into putting forth statements that he did not really believe. Other than Breen, who else has asserted the existence of a Matte Proof 1917 coin? I have never seen one and I have attended a large number of major auctions, including epic sales.
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I have heard many, many reputable numismatists relate to the story that towards the end of Breen's life a small monetary bribe would grant you his signature to just about anything you wanted to be said about your coin. >>
In the mid '80's (pre-PCGS) several people combined to purchase a 1917 5c in a Bowers sale in a two coin lot with a '24-S or 27-S 5c, which (LOL) turned out to fake. The lot cost was less than $400.
The 1917 was, to my mind, as well as those of the others who co-owned it, an incontrovertible proof with the diagnostic die chip coming out of the top of the D and the scratch on the flat part of the reverse rim from 7:30 to 8:30. The piece had every attribute of a satin proof including the finish. One of the partners was a founder of PCGS and die variety expert
Haven't seen the coin for 25+ years since it was sold in a MARCG auction
<< <i>What about the possible existence of a second 1870-S $3.00 gold? >>
There was supposedly one put in the San Francisco Mint cornerstone but has never been recovered.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire