A woman who turned down a strong offer for silver halves she was cashing in at face

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 1:55AM

I get a call from one of the banks that I do business with, and ironically I was on my way there.

A woman was about to dump a large amount of silver halves into the coin counter, and the head teller at my bank stopped her from doing so - telling her that each of them was worth many times more than $0.50 per, and they do business with a reputable dealer in town (me) who would be more than happy to buy them outright. You cannot get the coins out of the bags once they are run through, BTW as they are sealed, put in a vault, and shipped out by armored car.

I arrive at the bank, and "Millie" has $35.50 in 90%, and $56.00 in 40% halves. So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff and this is what she says to me:

"I did not realize they were worth that much. Let me go to a few other places and get some more offers, and I'll get back to you." - WOW!

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED TO YOU, where someone thought that an item was worth nothing, you make them a fair offer, and then they don't sell it to you right away or at all? I will post the results of what happened, and how it was handled later in the day.

Greg

MrEureka · July 13, 2012 1:59AM

She did the smart thing, of course. And she owed you nothing.

The good thing is that since you made her a strong offer, she'll probably be back, and your bank will hear all about it. You can't buy advertising like that.

DrBuster · July 13, 2012 2:10AM

A friend of mine was selling her old Sentra. I knew the vehicle since she bought it new. Ran fine, just older and needed some detailing. She asked me what to sell it for, I told her a grand at least.

She listed it on craigslist for $650, I offered to buy it for that the next day and even told her I could get her a grand for it easy. She sold it to the first CL responder that offered her $500. sigh

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 2:28AM

<< She did the smart thing, of course. And she owed you nothing.

The good thing is that since you made her a strong offer, she'll probably be back, and your bank will hear all about it. You can't buy advertising like that. >>

Perhaps if she got to meet Aki (sp) things would have gone easier.

mkman123 · July 13, 2012 2:29AM

I hope their is a good story to tell for you being so honest and fair to this lady

seanq · July 13, 2012 2:31AM

I'd say her reaction is more of a reflection of how much she trusts her bank, rather than how much she trusts you. If you made her a truly fair offer I'd expect her to be back in contact with you and for the bank to rise in her esteem as well.

Sean Reynolds

mingot · July 13, 2012 2:33AM

The fact that you and the bank teller are educating the banks customer and that you don't just have a deal with her to take them from the customer at face and sell them directly to you at a discount says a lot about you and that teller, Greg. And to me it's saying good things. Hope you get the deal in the end.

19Lyds · July 13, 2012 2:37AM

Once the "greed" light gets turned on, you just never know what will happen.

She should have simply accepted your offer but instead, she's now an expert on what value her coins have and may never end up selling them. But instead, gross around whining that nobody will pay her what they are really worth.

Nobody buys bulk silver at melt only to turn around and sell it at melt. It's an expensive, 0 dollar profit. No doubt, she'll look up the melt values and expect melt for her coins with no lee way for the prospective buyer. I hope it isn't so but again, you just never know.

Kaline6 · July 13, 2012 2:49AM

She did the wise thing--something she was selling was worth a lot more than she thought. Smart thing for her is to put the brakes on and do some research. If you had what you thought was a cheap watercolor and a stranger offered you $10,000 for it, would you sell it on the spot?

The right thing for her to do is to come to you last, and give you a shot at matching her best offer. Then IMO you're all even.

And she should give the teller a BIG tip.

Bullsitter · July 13, 2012 2:59AM

You should have done what Seinfeld did in the "RYE BREAD" episode.....grabbed it and ran....

Bochiman · July 13, 2012 2:59AM

Nothing wrong with her reaction....she doesn't know you nor know if you were giving her a fair offer or not, does she? All the times we get on the hotel room buyers and the people who sell to them, it is nice to see someone wanting to check things out instead of just taking a stranger's offer, whom she didn't even approach to start with, right off.

And, depending on the interaction (words/tones/body language) and how she is, that may also have something to do with it. Two people who don't know each other, and don't immediately click on some level, may not strike a deal right away, whereas 2 people who meet who have a lot in common and seem to click, may.

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 3:02AM

<< Nothing wrong with her reaction....she doesn't know you nor know if you were giving her a fair offer or not, does she? All the times we get on the hotel room buyers and the people who sell to them, it is nice to see someone wanting to check things out instead of just taking a stranger's offer, whom she didn't even approach to start with, right off.

And, depending on the interaction (words/tones/body language) and how she is, that may also have something to do with it. Two people who don't know each other, and don't immediately click on some level, may not strike a deal right away, whereas 2 people who meet who have a lot in common and seem to click, may. >>

I deal with a ton of people in my town, and she even knew who my wife was because her granddaughter had her as a teacher, so rapport was not a problem, but your observation is very keen.

ajaan · July 13, 2012 3:02AM

<< So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff >>

But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.

19Lyds · July 13, 2012 3:05AM

<< 

<< Nothing wrong with her reaction....she doesn't know you nor know if you were giving her a fair offer or not, does she? All the times we get on the hotel room buyers and the people who sell to them, it is nice to see someone wanting to check things out instead of just taking a stranger's offer, whom she didn't even approach to start with, right off.

And, depending on the interaction (words/tones/body language) and how she is, that may also have something to do with it. Two people who don't know each other, and don't immediately click on some level, may not strike a deal right away, whereas 2 people who meet who have a lot in common and seem to click, may. >>

I deal with a ton of people in my town, and she even knew who my wife was because her granddaughter had her as a teacher, so rapport was not a problem, but your observation is very keen. >>

OK. What did you offer?

10% below melt? 20% Below? Define Strong.

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 3:11AM

<< OK. What did you offer?

10% below melt? 20% Below? Define Strong. >>

My offer was strong enough where my chances of being outbid given the price of silver stayed constant were almost nil. We'll just leave it at that. There was nothing rare in there.

lcoopie · July 13, 2012 3:53AM

too bad she didn't trust your secret offer

magikbilly · July 13, 2012 3:59AM

To sell to an appraiser, or anyone, when not prepared with knowledge and some sort of reasonable idea of desirability and value is stupid. She is a smart lady. And you did your job, no? If I see a bad Gleason or Smith or Garland in passing I just say so. I like what I do and if I see bad material I will say so. This why I refuse to write descriptions for some houses.
If I have to do 40 min with exemplars and research that's different.

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 4:09AM

She was perfectly willing to cash them in for face before you came along; now all of a sudden she thinks she's hit the lottery and is going to milk the last nickel out of them. Gotta love that greed factor kicking in.
I can understand your frustration as a similar situation happened to us some time ago. Don't be surprised if you don't hear back again....that's what happened in our case. Just look at it as having done a good deed and move on; that's about all you can do.

19Lyds · July 13, 2012 4:15AM

<< To sell to an appraiser, or anyone, when not prepared with knowledge and some sort of reasonable idea of desirability and value is stupid. >>

Which is why I asked hat the offer amounted to.

No point in discussing unknown values here.

The coins may have been trashed.

Unless she's willing to commit serious investigation, which obviously she's wasn't until she found out the coins were worth more than .50 cents, and/or willing to sell them openly on eBay, which will cost her 12 - 20%, she'll probably not receive any 10% below melt offers which is very reasonable depending upon the direction silver is headed. If it's on a downswing, more the 10% back, if its on an upswing, 10% back.

Cakes · July 13, 2012 4:21AM

<< too bad she didn't trust your secret offer >>

Woot, I mean not to offend but if the offer was way low she might have got a great read off of him and determined she could get more somewhere else.

Zrider · July 13, 2012 4:25AM

<< too bad she didn't trust your secret offer >>

I would have done the same thing she did..

airplanenut · July 13, 2012 4:33AM

<< She was perfectly willing to cash them in for face before you came along; now all of a sudden she thinks she's hit the lottery and is going to milk the last nickel out of them. Gotta love that greed factor kicking in. >>

Not necessarily greed. Think of this example (and I'm in now way meaning to imply halfcentman would do this). You have an item that you don't know much about and assume it's worth a few dollars at best. You take it to a local dealer/store that buys such items and say you'd like to sell it for $10. The person responds, "that's actually quite rare, let me offer you $1000." Yes, the offer is much more than you were anticipating, and in that regard, the dealer is being honest and not getting the ultimate score of paying just $10. But maybe the dealer is playing this well--look really good in the seller's eyes by making a high offer, even if that offer is still a fraction of the item's worth. So now you think that the item really may be rare, and it warrants more research. This can confirm the dealer's offer is fair, or a nice bonus, but on the whole, not fair. If the item is worth $10,000, then a $1000 isn't really a fair offer in most cases.

So apply that to coins. If you know for a fact that dealer X is as reputable as can be, then go ahead and sell at his offer. There are dealers who, if they told me that my price was low and I should sell to them for 50% more, I wouldn't question whether they're still low balling me after pointing out what I'm missing. But those are dealers with whom I have a long-standing relationship. If it were a regular dealer, I'd think twice and try to do some more research once clued into the fact that I may have something I didn't think I had.

Justlooking · July 13, 2012 4:33AM

Some people just don't trust banks. So if the bank called someone in, they must be trying to cheat me somehow, even if it looks like I'm going to make money. That's the thinking.

dollarsandcents · July 13, 2012 4:35AM

She didn't know if the offer you were making was "strong" or not.
There is nothing wrong with her going out and getting a little more advice or soliciting other offers.

19Lyds · July 13, 2012 4:45AM

<< 

<< too bad she didn't trust your secret offer >>

I would have done the same thing she did.. >>

And then, maybe not since you obviously know coins. Same with everybody else that said they would have done the same thing.
But then you folks wouldn't be in the bank looking to deposit 90% and 40% Silver Kennedy's a Face Value either.

And again, the actual offer is still unknown but given the fact that the tellers did call the OP, I trust that his reputation is fairly stable. Otherwise, the bank would not bother.
It's tough getting your bank(s) to call you.

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 4:55AM

A PREFACE:

Once again, I heard the incorrect "appraiser" designation. Appraise/evaluate are used interchangably, and I was not charging for the evaluation. You have to figure out what it's worth before you can make an offer.

NOW FOR WHAT HAPPENED:

After I made her the offer, she was not overly ecstatic - most people are, and there I had a feeling this was going in a different direction. The teller who helped her was in shock and reminded her that if no one had said anything, she would have received no additional money over their face value. The woman scolded her and said "true, but that's NOT what happened; you could say that about anything. It's my stuff and now that I realized it has value, I want to get as much value for it as possible."

This is when I had to take the customer aside and separate her from everyone else - because the woman was right, and I did not want to blow it.

I acted professionally, told her I understood, and wrote out my offer on an invoice with my LLC letterhead, breaking it down with regards to how much face value in 90 and 40 she had, the multiplier X face I was paying, the price of silver when I figured it out, and the total. I told her that this was her copy, and for her to call me if she wanted to sell it.

She called me the next day and told me she called three places, and two of them would not even quote her on the phone, and other one offered her 20% less than I. I bought it the next day.

I did what any decent businessperson would have done, and as Mr. Eureka put it "she owed me nothing."

------------

NOW, we do realize that if she had brought that stuff to the counter to one of the tellers and just wanted to cash that in it's a different story, or is it???

roadrunner · July 13, 2012 5:04AM

What I've often seen is that they will eventually use your strong offer to negotiate a higher one from someone else. Odds are you won't get a 2nd chance.
Besides, there's no such thing as the "best price" when it comes to buying silver. There's always someone, somewhere paying more than the next guy.
This is why many dealers won't give out a bullion offer to someone they know is shopping around. Many dealers will tell this person to go out and get offers,
then come back and see them. And if they don't return, it's not like the world caved in because you missed out on making 3-5% on a silver deal.

Even if such a seller returns, the dealer may pass on it knowing that the items were shopped all over and they were the "highest" bidder (ie potentially the dumbest).
Except at major coin auctions, no buyer likes to be known as the person that always pays too much....probably not even halfcentman. The only exception I can readily
think of would be Barry "the collector" on the Storage Wars reality TV show. He always pays too much, and usually loses money. If he showed up at my house looking to
make an offer on anything....I'd give it to him.

Bochiman · July 13, 2012 5:08AM

<< She was perfectly willing to cash them in for face before you came along; now all of a sudden she thinks she's hit the lottery and is going to milk the last nickel out of them. Gotta love that greed factor kicking in.
I can understand your frustration as a similar situation happened to us some time ago. Don't be surprised if you don't hear back again....that's what happened in our case. Just look at it as having done a good deed and move on; that's about all you can do. >>

I don't think this limited amount of information is enough to call it a "greed" factor. More of a "get educated" thing.
Greed factor would be more if he made her an offer, she asked for more and more, or he made her an offer, she shops it around, then comes back and says someone else offered her $0.02 more per coin and can he beat that......

scotty1419 · July 13, 2012 5:13AM

<< What I've often seen is that they will eventually use your strong offer to negotiate a higher one from someone else. Odds are you won't get a 2nd chance.
Besides, there's no such thing as the "best price" when it comes to buying silver. There's always someone, somewhere paying more than the next guy.
This is why many dealers won't give out a bullion offer to someone they know is shopping around. Many dealers will tell this person to go out and get offers,
then come back and see them. And if they don't return, it's not like the world caved in because you missed out on making 3-5% on a silver deal. . >>

I've seen this a lot too. Congrats on the buy, but I would also ensure there was a time clause. "I'll offer you $X for 3 days" etc.

I've found that helps to counter a seller trying to use bids to negotiate higher.

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 5:14AM

The teller who helped her was in shock and reminded her that if no one had said anything, she would have received no additional money over their face value. The woman scolded her and said "true, but that's NOT what happened; you could say that about anything. It's my stuff and now that I realized it has value, I want to get as much value for it as possible."

Gee...that doesn't sound like greed at all. (sarcasm)

halfcentman · July 13, 2012 5:23AM

<< 

<< What I've often seen is that they will eventually use your strong offer to negotiate a higher one from someone else. Odds are you won't get a 2nd chance.
Besides, there's no such thing as the "best price" when it comes to buying silver. There's always someone, somewhere paying more than the next guy.
This is why many dealers won't give out a bullion offer to someone they know is shopping around. Many dealers will tell this person to go out and get offers,
then come back and see them. And if they don't return, it's not like the world caved in because you missed out on making 3-5% on a silver deal. . >>

I've seen this a lot too. Congrats on the buy, but I would also ensure there was a time clause. "I'll offer you $X for 3 days" etc.

I've found that helps to counter a seller trying to use bids to negotiate higher. >>

Bullion-related offers are based on spot, which is the reason why I wrote down the spot price on the invoice. And yes, if I did not get the deal, I was not losing sleep on it.

devious · July 13, 2012 5:29AM

<< The teller who helped her was in shock and reminded her that if no one had said anything, she would have received no additional money over their face value. The woman scolded her and said "true, but that's NOT what happened; you could say that about anything. It's my stuff and now that I realized it has value, I want to get as much value for it as possible."

Gee...that doesn't sound like greed at all. (sarcasm)

>>

Would you not want the most you could get for an item that you recently discovered had more value than you expected? Greed or not, it's capitalism. We need dollars to survive in this world. What if she were about to lose her home? Her car? Had recent medical bills to pay? Greed or not, capitalism is greed and a necessity to achieving a better "standard" of life in society.

georgiacop50 · July 13, 2012 5:32AM

So just how many 92-O's were in there ?

yellowkid · July 13, 2012 5:40AM

Not with coins, but many times with antiques. I don't give a price any more unless it's some one I know. I tell people to come see me after they've gotten offers.

Coinosaurus · July 13, 2012 5:42AM

I don't get it. We rag on dumb selling decisions here all the time. Here is an unknowledgeable seller who wants to gether more information before selling. And this is bad why???

Suppose you were selling some collectable you knew nothing about (like an old chest of drawers). And out of nowhere you get a strong offer. Wouldn't that be a clue that maybe you should do some more research before pulling the trigger???

Suppose you go to sell some coin you own. And dealer offers 5x what you think the right value is. You'd know you were missing something. And you would not sell, you would go do some more research to find out what's what.

WoodenJefferson · July 13, 2012 5:56AM

Just like the episode where a lady had a Faberge black widow brooch.

Rick asked what she wanted for it, she said "Ahhhh...$2k?"

Rick replied, "I wish I didn't have a conscience, but I'll give you $15k for it".

She then had the nerve to say "I'll take $17k"

Rick looked at her like she was looking a gift horse in the mouth...she settled for the 15K

Kaline6 · July 13, 2012 6:28AM

wrote out my offer on an invoice with my LLC letterhead, breaking it down with regards to how much face value in 90 and 40 she had, the multiplier X face I was paying, the price of silver when I figured it out, and the total. I told her that this was her copy, and for her to call me if she wanted to sell it.

Honest business well done, glad you got the transaction.

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 6:29AM

<< 

<< The teller who helped her was in shock and reminded her that if no one had said anything, she would have received no additional money over their face value. The woman scolded her and said "true, but that's NOT what happened; you could say that about anything. It's my stuff and now that I realized it has value, I want to get as much value for it as possible."

Gee...that doesn't sound like greed at all. (sarcasm)

>>

Would you not want the most you could get for an item that you recently discovered had more value than you expected? Greed or not, it's capitalism. We need dollars to survive in this world. What if she were about to lose her home? Her car? Had recent medical bills to pay? Greed or not, capitalism is greed and a necessity to achieving a better "standard" of life in society. >>

I have no problems with capitalism whatsoever. We can play what-if games all we want- but what it boils down to is that had it not been for OP she would have cashed in the stuff at face, and then the teller or someone else at the bank would have been the beneficiary. How is OP rewarded for his honesty? "It's my stuff and now that I know it has value, I'm going to shop it around". OP fortunately ended up owning the deal, but it could have as easily gone the other way. It just irks me, and imo is analagous to the "looking a gift horse in the mouth" scenario mentioned above. She had every right to do what she did, but that doesn't mean everyone has to approve of her less than tactful demeanor.

roadrunner · July 13, 2012 6:43AM

Reminds of the time when someone came into one of my local coins shops with what they thought was a counterfeit $5 territorial gold coin. On that day, that coin could have easily
been bought as a fake for a couple hundred bucks. The owner didn't hold out much hope and valued it at no more than $600. I think several other people also told them the coin was
no good. The shop owner called my friend to come down to take a look. He determined that is was worth sending off to PCGS. Lo and behold the coin came back genuine and an
AU55 as I recall. It's approximate value was in the low $20,000's. My friend lined up a strong offer from one of the nation's leading dealers. The customer was pleased with all this,
picked up the coin and was never heard from again. My friend was stiffed for the grading fees plus his research/time on the piece. Another hard lesson learned at the LCS. Now I
know why those guys just make low offers most of the time. If they make a high offer on something unusual they may not get it.

BigDaddyz · July 13, 2012 6:47AM

That reminds me of one of my own early experiences in coins...I bought some peace dollars at an auction and listed them individually on ebay. At the time I started bids at $17 each for them which was the going price.

Someone emailed me directly and asked if I would cancel one particular one and sell it to him for $30...almost double what I thought it was worth.

When I looked closer....it had an error on it...I later sold it for $300 to someone on on the BST

hornetsnest · July 13, 2012 6:50AM

<< wrote out my offer on an invoice with my LLC letterhead, breaking it down with regards to how much face value in 90 and 40 she had, the multiplier X face I was paying, the price of silver when I figured it out, and the total. I told her that this was her copy, and for her to call me if she wanted to sell it.

Honest business well done, glad you got the transaction. >>

I agree with this. I'm happy to hear that you were rewarded for being honest and I think you handled it perfectly. I also think the seller handled it well. More power to her for doing a little homework before selling.

JJacks · July 13, 2012 10:11AM

<< 

<< wrote out my offer on an invoice with my LLC letterhead, breaking it down with regards to how much face value in 90 and 40 she had, the multiplier X face I was paying, the price of silver when I figured it out, and the total. I told her that this was her copy, and for her to call me if she wanted to sell it.

Honest business well done, glad you got the transaction. >>

I agree with this. I'm happy to hear that you were rewarded for being honest and I think you handled it perfectly. I also think the seller handled it well. More power to her for doing a little homework before selling. >>

Yep, I just read through this and agree with this as well. Nothing wrong with her being cautious and the OP did business correctly as well it seems.

JJacks

PerryHall · July 13, 2012 10:42AM

The OP should have told her "Get your best offer and then call me and I'll beat it." and then give her your business card with your name and phone number.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 13, 2012 10:55AM

A lot of people shop around. Due diligence is the proper course of action.

BryceM · July 13, 2012 11:07AM

This game was well-played by all involved. The bank gets to look like they're watching out for their customers. The lady did an appropriate amount of research and came back when she knew the offer was appropriate. The OP came off looking like a classy businessman which is pretty important in my view. Win-win-win.

I'm just bummin' for the roll searcher story that we'll never get to hear about now.

CaptHenway · July 13, 2012 11:08AM

This is common human nature. In my 25 years in the trenches I saw several people keep the stuff that I pulled out of loose batches of otherwise common coins and try to pay more for. I finally asked one of them "So are you punishing me for trying to be honest?" They did not have an answer.

Finally I just figured everything fairly but kept it all together, and when I was done made one offer for the entire lot. If I bought it I would then resort it after the person left.

Cougar1978 · July 13, 2012 12:42PM

I know guy who is teller he just picks them up at face then takes them to coin shop to cleanup. He knows the pre 1965 coins are silver and will set them aside. He was bragging the other day at the coin club meeting how he pickec up 5 rolls of BU silver Kennedys from some kids cashing them in at face. He also says he smiles at coin collectors when they come in and uses what they ask for as a hint to find stuff he can put aside. "I clean up on all those guys" he says.

Kaline6 · July 13, 2012 12:56PM

<< I know guy who is teller he just picks them up at face then takes them to coin shop to cleanup. He knows the pre 1965 coins are silver and will set them aside. He was bragging the other day at the coin club meeting how he pickec up 5 rolls of BU silver Kennedys from some kids cashing them in at face. He also says he smiles at coin collectors when they come in and uses what they ask for as a hint to find stuff he can put aside. "I clean up on all those guys" he says. >>

Is this how he would like others to treat him?

stman · July 13, 2012 1:10PM

Good for the lady that wanted to look at other options. If it were me I wouldn't have done any kind of deal like this the way it was described. I wouldn't go for some stranger taking me aside with a bid. That would have stopped everything right there. Seems kinda squirrelly to me.

ProofArtworkonCircs · July 13, 2012 1:11PM

Do banks have an official policy on what tellers should do when a customer brings in silver?
I remember the Fed told the banks sometime in the 1950's that they should send customers trying to turn in gold coins for face to a coin dealer for more money.

beartracks42 · July 13, 2012 1:38PM

<< I get a call from one of the banks that I do business with, and ironically I was on my way there.

A woman was about to dump a large amount of silver halves into the coin counter, and the head teller at my bank stopped her from doing so - telling her that each of them was worth many times more than $0.50 per, and they do business with a reputable dealer in town (me) who would be more than happy to buy them outright. You cannot get the coins out of the bags once they are run through, BTW as they are sealed, put in a vault, and shipped out by armored car.

I arrive at the bank, and "Millie" has $35.50 in 90%, and $56.00 in 40% halves. So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff and this is what she says to me:

"I did not realize they were worth that much. Let me go to a few other places and get some more offers, and I'll get back to you." - WOW!

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED TO YOU, where someone thought that an item was worth nothing, you make them a fair offer, and then they don't sell it to you right away or at all? I will post the results of what happened, and how it was handled later in the day.

You can buy the bags in some banks. My buddy was in his bank one day making a deposit and saw a bag of dimes behind the teller. He could see the silver dimes in the bag, so he ask what they did with the bag. The teller said that they sip itback to the main bank or the Fed or wherever. He ask if anyone could buy it and she said "sure". He paid for the $1000 bag of dimes and we sorted through them. He got $245.30 face in silver dimes from that bag.

A woman who turned down a strong offer for silver halves she was cashing in at face

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