I used to put an ad in a local paper and that happened to me often until I learned. I spent a lot of time giving free appraisals.
Whenever you make an offer you can expect that they will then want to shop around,.... you offer, you lose.
The only way to make a deal is to ask how much she would take for it. She sets the price, you except, deal done. Otherwise they always assume its worth more than your offer.
<< <i>Do banks have an official policy on what tellers should do when a customer brings in silver? I remember the Fed told the banks sometime in the 1950's that they should send customers trying to turn in gold coins for face to a coin dealer for more money. >>
My bank tends to do the right thing with their customers because they feel that it provided greater customer service equity. There are two other banks within 1/4 mile of them, and I can tell you not all banks have different policies.
Two ladies came into my shop. Both were dressed in the finest linens, flashy and classy. Middle aged, professional, and very straight to the poin. They knew what they wanted for their silver half dollars. I tried to buy at a discount. Oh, I'm a brick and mortar guy.
We dickered, haggled, and negotiated for about ten minutes, when they said, "we can just go up the street to _ S S Coin and Bullion ". I said, "But hold on a second ladies, what is it you want ? " They said, "Spot price". After a few more minutes prodding and teasing, I got them to understand that I need to make 2 percent, so they sold it to me at 2% back of spot. They were worn Walkers, Franklins and a few Kennedy halves. All toll : under $500.
I'll be back on a business day to tell you the rest of the story. -------------------------------------
In my story, it was the opposite.
Those two ladies who came in worked at a bank and an old woman came in to deposit her "change". In her change was about $25 face value in half dollars. The old woman got a credit to her account of $25 plus the rest of her change (who knows if there were silver dimes or IHCs or any other type coins in the lot ?) on deposit.
The bank teller and manager did their due diligence and got twenty times face value for the old woman's silver money. The old woman got her money's worth. I'm not to judge, but I did hold a candle to those two ladies.
<< <i><< So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff >> But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.
If she was really smart she would have known that silver coins are worth more than face value.
The lady is more greedy than she is smart in my opinion. >>
Not knowing her coins were worth more than face value doesn't make her any less intelligent , she didnt know. I'm bemused that in your opinion the idea she wanted the true value on learning such is greed. How many times on Pawn stars for example does someone come in and say they want X amount of dollars , an expert gets called in and suddenly it's moon money.This lady was far more intelligent than you seem to give her credit for.
what most customers dont realize are the local ordinances placed on buying scrap gold, silver, platinum and sometimes even collectible coins from the public and how this affects your buy price.
while most think that some offers are "low ball" - now consider having to hold the items in question for up to 15 business days before unloading them.
how about the high possibility of buying a stolen item or items, even though the person you just paid had ID and looked like they were the model citizen. then the police show up and recover the item - of course with no monetary consideration to you - the dealer (your loss)
the constant pressure from these local rules designed to protect the public actually wind up hurting the public in terms of prices offered for their valuables.
lets face it, the possibility of a 10%+ move in metals prices is very real within that period of time (10-15 business days). we saw silver dump from 49 to 34 within a week a short while ago.
that 30% spread on scrap (dealers buying at 65%) - considering normal expenses narrows to probably less than 20%, with the possibility of as little as 5% once the holding period has elapsed..........most dealers are working on a pre-determined spread - they are not holding scrap as inventory nor do they wish to.....
<< <i><< So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff >> But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.
If she was really smart she would have known that silver coins are worth more than face value.
The lady is more greedy than she is smart in my opinion. >>
Not knowing her coins were worth more than face value doesn't make her any less intelligent , she didnt know. I'm bemused that in your opinion the idea she wanted the true value on learning such is greed. How many times on Pawn stars for example does someone come in and say they want X amount of dollars , an expert gets called in and suddenly it's moon money.This lady was far more intelligent than you seem to give her credit for. >>
Objectively viewing :
The bank called him. Intellect and greed are not part of the factor. Value is, as worth is.
She was going to receive the TRUE face value. (Hearing the truth of it's intinsic value is not saying what it's worth, and verifying it's value was doing her "due diligence"). She had to decide what is fair.
If a person ran into a pawn shop and said, "Give me $100 for my 100 Morgans" , do you know how fast all of us would whip out a hundy ? Going the extra step is a measurement of giving a person their money's worth, is not for any man to judge. That transaction is why it's called a "private sale". A man said to me recently: "Joe, there is a little bit of larceny in all of us". To him, I said, , "perhaps, but ... there is a coinscience that knows what's fair, and equilibrium for me is being able to sleep at night and not having to look over my shoulder in the morning."
I would contend that falling short of fair is for short term gains and long term ills.
An expert gets called in when demands are exceedingly high and we need the EXPERT's opinion. That's what makes it "diligent". How did that lady get there ? What something is worth and it's value are totally different issues, too. Maybe I misunderstood the OP. Didn't the bank call him to let him know this woman was about to get her money's worth ?
Maybe I misunderstood the OP. Didn't the bank call him to let him know this woman was about to get her money's worth ?
Its how i understood it , although i've never heard of any bank doing this.What was the little old lady doing all this time phone calls and journeys were taken..who knows.
James Murray:"Not knowing her coins were worth more than face value doesn't make her any less intelligent , she didnt know. I'm bemused that in your opinion the idea she wanted the true value on learning such is greed."
The lady gets information from the bank teller (an honest person) that her coins are worth far more than face value.Not only that, she gets referred to a reputable person (the OP) who she is told (by the honest bank teller) will give her a fair amount for her coins.
Now she's an instant expert who wants to "shop around" for a better price,not trusting the OP with his offer.
That's greed,in my opinion.
Greed walks hand in hand with betrayal of trust.Millie has problem with trusting people she should be trusting,it seems.Bank teller and OP have been betrayed of trust by greedy Millie.
OP should offer significantly less (10% less,sounds about right) if Millie gets back to him with her coins.It's not cool to act like she's acting where I come from.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
You are entitled to an opinion mr1874 , to think that she should instantly take a strangers word for what she has is dumb , she didnt so that makes her less than dumb. How anyone can label her greedy is what is questionable.Put up a pic of a coin , ill tell you what i think its worth , if you knock my offer back does that make you greedy ?
James Murray:"You are entitled to an opinion mr1874 , to think that she should instantly take a strangers word for what she has is dumb , she didnt so that makes her less than dumb. How anyone can label her greedy is what is questionable.Put up a pic of a coin , ill tell you what i think its worth , if you knock my offer back does that make you greedy ?"
Well,she took the bank teller's "word" that her halves are worth considerably more than face value,didn't she?
Many years ago,my younger brother evaluated some IH pennies the neighbor lady had.He found a 1909-S (VG condition) in the group of coins and told the lady it had value well over the other coins in the group which were 90's and 00 common dates.
So the neighbor lady received information (learned something?),for free, from my honest brother,who,if he were dishonest,could have pocketed the coin and she would have been none the wiser,unless,of course,she counted them before he evaluated them thereby enabling her to know if one or more coins was missing after he evaluated them.
Millie's encounter with the bank teller started out on the basis of trust but Millie showed herself unworthy of that trust.The bank teller did not betray Millie (by giving face value for the coins and then buying them for himself from the bank) but she ultimately betrayed him because the OP is obviously not a "stranger," as you say,to the bank teller.
People are funny about a little bit of money it seems.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>James Murray:"You are entitled to an opinion mr1874 , to think that she should instantly take a strangers word for what she has is dumb , she didnt so that makes her less than dumb. How anyone can label her greedy is what is questionable.Put up a pic of a coin , ill tell you what i think its worth , if you knock my offer back does that make you greedy ?"
Well,she took the bank teller's "word" that her halves are worth considerably more than face value,didn't she?
Many years ago,my younger brother evaluated some IH pennies the neighbor lady had.He found a 1909-S (VG condition) in the group of coins and told the lady it had value well over the other coins in the group which were 90's and 00 common dates.
So the neighbor lady received information (learned something?),for free, from my honest brother,who,if he were dishonest,could have pocketed the coin and she would have been none the wiser,unless,of course,she counted them before he evaluated them thereby enabling her to know if one or more coins was missing after he evaluated them.
Millie's encounter with the bank teller started out on the basis of trust but Millie showed herself unworthy of that trust.The bank teller did not betray Millie (by collecting face value for the coins and then buying them for himself from the bank) but she ultimately betrayed him because the OP is obviously not a "stranger," as you say,to the bank teller.
People are funny about a little bit of money it seems. >>
Yes , so it seems , betray is a bit strong isnt it ? Even you must see that mr1874 in retrospect ? The old lady betrayed nobody , you've missed the point it looks like , the OP and the teller both were strangers to the old lady so the bank teller and OP's relationship has absolutely no bearing on how she should view any transaction. Im beginning to think you'd argue this to death , but as you say , an opinion is just that , and to my mind the old lady did nothing wrong at all.Betrayed , Greedy , Untrustworthy ..you're having a laugh aint ya ?
Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made. Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react.
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made. Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react. >>
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it. I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ?
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made. Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react. >>
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it. I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ? >>
Perhaps someone can help me understand why Millie would ever become upset with or think the teller was in "cahoots" with anyone... Millie was ready to dump the coins at face had no one said anything! If anything, Millie should have been grateful that the teller was not only honest, but put her in touch with a strong buyer! Instead, Millie then infers, if not outright says "Now hold on a minute. Now that it appears they're worth something, I'm going to get the last nickel"...If that's not greed, then at a minimum it smacks of someone who is an ingrate IMO... and I'd bet money that if someone else had offered ten bucks more, OP wouldn't have seen her again.
TP1 - I was going to respond, but I think you have your mind made up and there is no use giving you any other thoughts to think about. As with many things, we (humans) tend to process information as it would pertain to ourselves. This is why there are different thoughts in this thread. While I believe people are usually good, and honest, I know there are times they aren't, and I use my past experiences to guide my judgement and thoughts. I believe most of us do that.
For those that keep calling the woman "greedy" or an "ingrate", then I think maybe they are using their own thoughts/experiences to color her that way.
The only things we know for certain, given what has been posted by the OP (the only one here that was there and/or had the contact) are:
A) Woman goes into bank with half dollars and was (apparently) ignorant of any additional value over face Teller tells woman "Hey...those are worth more than face due silver value......" and then, in her best Pawn Stars Rick's voice "and, I have an expert who can tell you more and pay you more...shall I call him?" (okay, that was an embellishment, but the gist is the same ) C) The OP shows up, talks to the woman off to the side, gives her a written offer based on current spot price. D) Woman says something akin to "Thanks. I appreciate that, but I am not 100% certain that I want to sell them at that price, now that I know they are worth more than face. I want to do some checking first" E) Woman does DUE DILIGENCE and calls the OP back and sells to him.
Am I missing anything above?
Some call it "greed" but some call it "due diligence". What if it had been someone other than the OP....let's just imagine that the teller has had someone tell her "if you have customers come in with "strange" coins, or pre-1964 non-penny/nickels, give me a call as they are worth more than face and I can help them". Then, let's say that the person gets called and comes in and offers 2x face, or 3x face. In YOUR scheme, the woman should be greatful and jump on this offer and not be greedy, right?
What about when silver was almost $50/ounce? What if the scenario repeated and the offer was 18x face or 20x face? A lowball offer to be sure, at the time, but, again, above face. So, again, in your view, it appears you would again chastise her as greedy.
While I can see your point of view, it appears you, and others, can't see other points of view. That's a shame. People aren't always negative and sometimes, they need time to thnk and re-evaluate as they don't know if they are being taken advantage of or what they want to do with the new information.
Case in point: this morning, I stopped in at one of our cafeterias to get a donut. The gal behind the counter (I've known her for about 6-7 years and she knows I collect coins) doesn't know much about coins. Her husband had some "large dollars was 1970 something" (her words) and they had stars on them and a woman's head. She wondered what they were worth. They took them to a local coin store this last weekend and were made an offer of $40 each she said.
Now, obviously she was incorrect on her memory and the dates as I asked her if they were Ikes but she was insistent they had a woman's head and stars, so they were Morgans. She didn't remember the exact date, doesn't know the condition, nor did she know about mintmarks. She said that she and her husband declined the sell offer. The reason was that, for only $40 each, he didn't feel like getting rid of coins he had been given as a child.
So, would you call them "greedy" for not selling? What if they just declined and didn't tell the dealer why (they are not obligated to say why)?
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made. Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react. >>
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it. I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ? >>
Perhaps someone can help me understand why Millie would ever become upset with or think the teller was in "cahoots" with anyone... Millie was ready to dump the coins at face had no one said anything! If anything, Millie should have been grateful that the teller was not only honest, but put her in touch with a strong buyer! Instead, Millie then infers, if not outright says "Now hold on a minute. Now that it appears they're worth something, I'm going to get the last nickel"...If that's not greed, then at a minimum it smacks of someone who is an ingrate IMO... and I'd bet money that if someone else had offered ten bucks more, OP wouldn't have seen her again. >>
Try this sometime. Open every door for the closest person behind you. See how long it takes you before you get annoyed because not everyone of them is going to stop and say thank you for holding the door for them. If you're the type to expect something in return for doing a good deed, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Helping others doesn't have to demand reciprocation. It should be rewarding enough knowing that you have helped someone else out. Good deeds need no recognition. It only adds to the benefit of all of humanity in a positive way.
Society necessitates greed which is the foundation of capitalism which is the underlying basis of control of the people.
I've been in Millie's shoes once before. It was 11th grade history class. I had just turned in a mid-term exam early knowing I did very well. A couple of days later the teacher brings me the exam and points out that I left an entire page blank. Incredible since I had never had that happen before or since. He tells me I can take some time and finish those questions after class. When I got the graded exam back I noticed that the teacher either mismarked or subtracted for a right answer, don't recall which. I was just performing "diligence" as Millie did...holding the teacher accountable if you will. The teacher recognized his "error" and made the correction in my favor. I don't think I was aware that those "mistakes" were on the very blank page I had been given extra time to finish. But in the final analysis, it doesn't really matter.
I never heard another word on this until end of the school year when the teacher took me aside. He said that ever since that exam incident, whenever there was a benefit of a doubt in grading anything I had subitted or produced, he erred against me. He said he lost a lot of respect for me. And that sort of hurt since I had taken his class before and thought we had a decent bond going. While his point of view never occurred to me because of my "diligent" attitude about everything, he was perfectly correct. I was an idiot who didn't even respond properly by looking a gift horse in the mouth. I was due nothing on my blank exam page as I was willing to cash it in for "face value." The teacher gave me >90% of "spot" for it. That lesson stuck very well with me ever since. And to this day I don't know if the teacher purposely injected an error into his corrections just to "test" me. I failed his small "test" on life but learned a much more valuable lesson. Millie never learned this lesson back in 11th grade, maybe because her teacher never gave her the full story. Neither one of us was technically wrong....just doing our "due diligence." But there's a time to drop the diligence facade and be thankful for the good deal you got. Not every i has to be dotted nor every t crossed.
People "shop offers" in all kinds of business. Most folks self employed give bids/offers all the time and many times it's a waste of time or they're just tire kickin' as the dealers would say. I just don't get why dealers get so upset because some folks want to get a few offers. I wonder if any of the folks that object to this only take one bid/offer on let's say getting a home improvement. I see dealers that buy something that don't want to sell it right away so they can research it. Is this being greedy? I don't think so. Makes me wonder if something is up if a dealer gets upset because you don't jump on their offer.
BTW, I wonder what would have happened had this lady went into the shops that wouldn't give a quote over the phone. Apparently she didn't know a lot of shops won't do this. I'm sure the OP is an honest business person, yet he states he gave a strong offer. I guess only him and her know for sure as I don't believe it was ever stated what it was.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Shopping offers on things you know have potential value is one thing. But shopping offers on something you were throwing out is quite different. And spending old coins is basically throwing them out. A homeowner is ready to discard the entire contents of the house at a junkyard until someone also dumping comes along and offers $1,000 for the contents. Then the homeowner starts haggling the price upwards. Millie was at the stage of throwing it away, not performing due diligence as to its value before arriving at the bank.
We all know how seedy the coin, pawn, and bullion buying business can be. There are more horror stories than happy endings...by far. But, how many people walk into a coin or pawn shop and start spending with old silver coins? Millie was in the rarified air of the top 1%. She was taking herself for an unassisted fleecing by accepting 5% of what her coins were worth (ie face value). It wasn't like she knowingly shopped her stuff around before hitting the bank and received offers of no more than face value. I too would get annoyed if I was the one offering the homeowner $1,000 for his junk that he was in the process of throwing away. His counteroffer would have been met with, "you can just keep tossing that stuff in the junk pile, in can now see I was mistaken."
<< <i>Shopping offers on things you know have potential value is one thing. But shopping offers on something you were throwing out is quite different. And spending old coins is basically throwing them out. A homeowner is ready to discard the entire contents of the house at a junkyard until someone also dumping comes along and offers $1,000 for the contents. Then the homeowner starts haggling the price upwards. Millie was at the stage of throwing it away, not performing due diligence as to its value before arriving at the bank.
We all know how seedy the coin, pawn, and bullion buying business can be. There are more horror stories than happy endings...by far. But, how many people walk into a coin or pawn shop and start spending with old silver coins? Millie was in the rarified air of the top 1%. She was taking herself for an unassisted fleecing by accepting 5% of what her coins were worth (ie face value). It wasn't like she knowingly shopped her stuff around before hitting the bank and received offers of no more than face value. I too would get annoyed if I was the one offering the homeowner $1,000 for his junk that he was in the process of throwing away. His counteroffer would have been met with, "you can just keep tossing that stuff in the junk pile, in can now see I was mistaken." >>
Roadrunner, I'll ask you the same thing I put above as a reply to TP1.........how does the woman know she was being given a fair offer? Yes, she was willing to exchange at face value because she was not aware of the true value, but once aware it was worth more than fair value, why should she be commited to taking that unknown offer without due diligence?
If it were my mom or friend, I sure as heck wouldn't want her to do that. Would you? Let's not play the "she would know better", "she would call me", etc game on this. Just answer "why should she be expected to take an on-the-spot offer that she has done no background on just because she was ignorant of the true value of the coins just prior????"
I've come to my senses today and am thinking that it is possible that Millie was blinded,in a flash, by due diligence (not greed) after the bank teller informed her that her coins were worth far more than face value and that he knew someone other than himself who would buy them from her for a fair price.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>I've come to my senses today and am thinking that it is possible that Millie was blinded,in a flash, by due diligence (not greed) after the bank teller informed her that her coins were worth far more than face value and that he knew someone other than himself who would buy them from her for a fair price. >>
Amen. That's exactly how I see it. She was right to go to that bank and the people who served her, served her well. No worries.
I've lost a few customers having them "shop around". Some dealers say that is a "no no", but it serves the customer best. I know I can't win them all and I sure can't afford them all.
Shopping offers on things you know have potential value is one thing. But shopping offers on something you were throwing out is quite different. And spending old coins is basically throwing them out. A homeowner is ready to discard the entire contents of the house at a junkyard until someone also dumping comes along and offers $1,000 for the contents. Then the homeowner starts haggling the price upwards. Millie was at the stage of throwing it away, not performing due diligence as to its value before arriving at the bank.
THANK YOU ROADRUNNER. Someone has finally communicated the point I was attempting to, and in a much more concise fashion. And in the context of that reasoning imo Millie was being ungrateful and/or greedy in my opinion.
It's not about "expecting something in return for a good deed"; it's about not being INSULTED when you do a good deed. And essentially telling someone who just did you a huge favor that you basically don't trust their offer to be fair so you're going to now shop it around-when a few minutes before, you had no idea that it even HAD any value and were ready to just spend it at face- is an insult.
People on these boards are very quick to call dealers scummy, unethical widow-robbers, etc...but here we have an honest guy doing a really nice thing for someone... and even so, some still dislike dealers so much they can't bring themselves to acknowledge it. Instead it's "Meh. So what- he still might have been hosing her for all she knew". Wow. Just wow.
In case no one figured it out yet, I've been in OP's shoes only with a different outcome. I've also been in OP's shoes and had the bank official buy the deal out from under me, where I was basically (unknowingly) setting the value so HE could buy it... So, in fairness I suppose my remarks are coming from perhaps a slightly more jaded place.
I realize that doing a good deed is its own reward, etc. and I understand the "holding the door open" scenario... but once in a while would it kill someone to at least say thanks?
Comments
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Whenever you make an offer you can expect that they will then want to shop around,.... you offer, you lose.
The only way to make a deal is to ask how much she would take for it. She sets the price, you except, deal done. Otherwise they always assume its worth more than your offer.
But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.
If she was really smart she would have known that silver coins are worth more than face value.
The lady is more greedy than she is smart in my opinion.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>Do banks have an official policy on what tellers should do when a customer brings in silver?
I remember the Fed told the banks sometime in the 1950's that they should send customers trying to turn in gold coins for face to a coin dealer for more money. >>
My bank tends to do the right thing with their customers because they feel that it provided greater customer service equity. There are two other banks within 1/4 mile of them, and I can tell you not all banks have different policies.
We dickered, haggled, and negotiated for about ten minutes, when they said, "we can just go up the street to _ S S Coin and Bullion ".
I said, "But hold on a second ladies, what is it you want ? " They said, "Spot price".
After a few more minutes prodding and teasing, I got them to understand that I need to make 2 percent, so they sold it to me at 2% back of spot. They were worn Walkers, Franklins and a few Kennedy halves. All toll : under $500.
I'll be back on a business day to tell you the rest of the story.
-------------------------------------
In my story, it was the opposite.
Those two ladies who came in worked at a bank and an old woman came in to deposit her "change". In her change was about $25 face value in half dollars. The old woman got a credit to her account of $25 plus the rest of her change (who knows if there were silver dimes or IHCs or any other type coins in the lot ?) on deposit.
The bank teller and manager did their due diligence and got twenty times face value for the old woman's silver money.
The old woman got her money's worth. I'm not to judge, but I did hold a candle to those two ladies.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i><< So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff >>
But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.
If she was really smart she would have known that silver coins are worth more than face value.
The lady is more greedy than she is smart in my opinion. >>
Not knowing her coins were worth more than face value doesn't make her any less intelligent , she didnt know. I'm bemused that in your opinion the idea she wanted the true value on learning such is greed.
How many times on Pawn stars for example does someone come in and say they want X amount of dollars , an expert gets called in and suddenly it's moon money.This lady was far more intelligent than you seem to give her credit for.
while most think that some offers are "low ball" - now consider having to hold the items in question for up to 15 business days before unloading them.
how about the high possibility of buying a stolen item or items, even though the person you just paid had ID and looked like they were the model citizen. then the police show up and recover the item - of course with no monetary consideration to you - the dealer (your loss)
the constant pressure from these local rules designed to protect the public actually wind up hurting the public in terms of prices offered for their valuables.
lets face it, the possibility of a 10%+ move in metals prices is very real within that period of time (10-15 business days). we saw silver dump from 49 to 34 within a week a short while ago.
that 30% spread on scrap (dealers buying at 65%) - considering normal expenses narrows to probably less than 20%, with the possibility of as little as 5% once the holding period has elapsed..........most dealers are working on a pre-determined spread - they are not holding scrap as inventory nor do they wish to.....
<< <i>
<< <i><< So I make her a very strong offer for the stuff >>
But she didn't know this. Smart lady IMO.
If she was really smart she would have known that silver coins are worth more than face value.
The lady is more greedy than she is smart in my opinion. >>
Not knowing her coins were worth more than face value doesn't make her any less intelligent , she didnt know. I'm bemused that in your opinion the idea she wanted the true value on learning such is greed.
How many times on Pawn stars for example does someone come in and say they want X amount of dollars , an expert gets called in and suddenly it's moon money.This lady was far more intelligent than you seem to give her credit for. >>
Objectively viewing :
The bank called him. Intellect and greed are not part of the factor. Value is, as worth is.
She was going to receive the TRUE face value. (Hearing the truth of it's intinsic value is not saying what it's worth, and verifying it's value was doing her "due diligence"). She had to decide what is fair.
If a person ran into a pawn shop and said, "Give me $100 for my 100 Morgans" , do you know how fast all of us would whip out a hundy ?
Going the extra step is a measurement of giving a person their money's worth, is not for any man to judge. That transaction is why it's called a "private sale".
A man said to me recently: "Joe, there is a little bit of larceny in all of us". To him, I said, , "perhaps, but ... there is a coinscience that knows what's fair, and equilibrium for me is being able to sleep at night and not having to look over my shoulder in the morning."
I would contend that falling short of fair is for short term gains and long term ills.
An expert gets called in when demands are exceedingly high and we need the EXPERT's opinion. That's what makes it "diligent".
How did that lady get there ? What something is worth and it's value are totally different issues, too.
Maybe I misunderstood the OP. Didn't the bank call him to let him know this woman was about to get her money's worth ?
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Its how i understood it , although i've never heard of any bank doing this.What was the little old lady doing all this time phone calls and journeys were taken..who knows.
The lady gets information from the bank teller (an honest person) that her coins are worth far more than face value.Not only that, she gets referred to a reputable person (the OP) who she is told (by the honest bank teller) will give her a fair amount for her coins.
Now she's an instant expert who wants to "shop around" for a better price,not trusting the OP with his offer.
That's greed,in my opinion.
Greed walks hand in hand with betrayal of trust.Millie has problem with trusting people she should be trusting,it seems.Bank teller and OP have been betrayed of trust by greedy Millie.
OP should offer significantly less (10% less,sounds about right) if Millie gets back to him with her coins.It's not cool to act like she's acting where I come from.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i> to think that she should instantly take a strangers word for what she has is dumb >>
well given that she was about to dump them in at FACE - doesnt add to her intelligence factor.....
and she was offered much more by a local dealer, who was recommended by a third party (teller),
when it all adds up - it spells GREED on Millie's part.
when she comes crawling back to sell, 10% less. A lesson will be learned.
Well,she took the bank teller's "word" that her halves are worth considerably more than face value,didn't she?
Many years ago,my younger brother evaluated some IH pennies the neighbor lady had.He found a 1909-S (VG condition) in the group of coins and told the lady it had value well over the other coins in the group which were 90's and 00 common dates.
So the neighbor lady received information (learned something?),for free, from my honest brother,who,if he were dishonest,could have pocketed the coin and she would have been none the wiser,unless,of course,she counted them before he evaluated them thereby enabling her to know if one or more coins was missing after he evaluated them.
Millie's encounter with the bank teller started out on the basis of trust but Millie showed herself unworthy of that trust.The bank teller did not betray Millie (by giving face value for the coins and then buying them for himself from the bank) but she ultimately betrayed him because the OP is obviously not a "stranger," as you say,to the bank teller.
People are funny about a little bit of money it seems.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>James Murray:"You are entitled to an opinion mr1874 , to think that she should instantly take a strangers word for what she has is dumb , she didnt so that makes her less than dumb. How anyone can label her greedy is what is questionable.Put up a pic of a coin , ill tell you what i think its worth , if you knock my offer back does that make you greedy ?"
Well,she took the bank teller's "word" that her halves are worth considerably more than face value,didn't she?
Many years ago,my younger brother evaluated some IH pennies the neighbor lady had.He found a 1909-S (VG condition) in the group of coins and told the lady it had value well over the other coins in the group which were 90's and 00 common dates.
So the neighbor lady received information (learned something?),for free, from my honest brother,who,if he were dishonest,could have pocketed the coin and she would have been none the wiser,unless,of course,she counted them before he evaluated them thereby enabling her to know if one or more coins was missing after he evaluated them.
Millie's encounter with the bank teller started out on the basis of trust but Millie showed herself unworthy of that trust.The bank teller did not betray Millie (by collecting face value for the coins and then buying them for himself from the bank) but she ultimately betrayed him because the OP is obviously not a "stranger," as you say,to the bank teller.
People are funny about a little bit of money it seems. >>
Yes , so it seems , betray is a bit strong isnt it ? Even you must see that mr1874 in retrospect ? The old lady betrayed nobody , you've missed the point it looks like , the OP and the teller both were strangers to the old lady so the bank teller and OP's relationship has absolutely no bearing on how she should view any transaction. Im beginning to think you'd argue this to death , but as you say , an opinion is just that , and to my mind the old lady did nothing wrong at all.Betrayed , Greedy , Untrustworthy ..you're having a laugh aint ya ?
Not really but I'm thinking that I'm definitely right about Millie being quick to betray a trust over a few bucks.
Millie goes to the yard sale.
Millie:"How much will you take for this?"
Seller: "That will be 25 cents."
Millie: "Will you take a dime?"
Question to ponder: Is Millie a cheapskate?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made.
Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react.
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it.
I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ?
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made.
Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react.
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it.
I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ? >>
Perhaps someone can help me understand why Millie would ever become upset with or think the teller was in "cahoots" with anyone... Millie was ready to dump the coins at face had no one said anything! If anything, Millie should have been grateful that the teller was not only honest, but put her in touch with a strong buyer! Instead, Millie then infers, if not outright says "Now hold on a minute. Now that it appears they're worth something, I'm going to get the last nickel"...If that's not greed, then at a minimum it smacks of someone who is an ingrate IMO... and I'd bet money that if someone else had offered ten bucks more, OP wouldn't have seen her again.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Changing someone's mind by presenting well-constructed arguments is a noble idea, but generally fruitless in an Internet setting.......
As with many things, we (humans) tend to process information as it would pertain to ourselves. This is why there are different thoughts in this thread. While I believe people are usually good, and honest, I know there are times they aren't, and I use my past experiences to guide my judgement and thoughts. I believe most of us do that.
For those that keep calling the woman "greedy" or an "ingrate", then I think maybe they are using their own thoughts/experiences to color her that way.
The only things we know for certain, given what has been posted by the OP (the only one here that was there and/or had the contact) are:
A) Woman goes into bank with half dollars and was (apparently) ignorant of any additional value over face
C) The OP shows up, talks to the woman off to the side, gives her a written offer based on current spot price.
D) Woman says something akin to "Thanks. I appreciate that, but I am not 100% certain that I want to sell them at that price, now that I know they are worth more than face. I want to do some checking first"
E) Woman does DUE DILIGENCE and calls the OP back and sells to him.
Am I missing anything above?
Some call it "greed" but some call it "due diligence". What if it had been someone other than the OP....let's just imagine that the teller has had someone tell her "if you have customers come in with "strange" coins, or pre-1964 non-penny/nickels, give me a call as they are worth more than face and I can help them". Then, let's say that the person gets called and comes in and offers 2x face, or 3x face. In YOUR scheme, the woman should be greatful and jump on this offer and not be greedy, right?
What about when silver was almost $50/ounce? What if the scenario repeated and the offer was 18x face or 20x face? A lowball offer to be sure, at the time, but, again, above face. So, again, in your view, it appears you would again chastise her as greedy.
While I can see your point of view, it appears you, and others, can't see other points of view. That's a shame. People aren't always negative and sometimes, they need time to thnk and re-evaluate as they don't know if they are being taken advantage of or what they want to do with the new information.
Case in point: this morning, I stopped in at one of our cafeterias to get a donut. The gal behind the counter (I've known her for about 6-7 years and she knows I collect coins) doesn't know much about coins. Her husband had some "large dollars was 1970 something" (her words) and they had stars on them and a woman's head. She wondered what they were worth. They took them to a local coin store this last weekend and were made an offer of $40 each she said.
Now, obviously she was incorrect on her memory and the dates as I asked her if they were Ikes but she was insistent they had a woman's head and stars, so they were Morgans. She didn't remember the exact date, doesn't know the condition, nor did she know about mintmarks. She said that she and her husband declined the sell offer. The reason was that, for only $40 each, he didn't feel like getting rid of coins he had been given as a child.
So, would you call them "greedy" for not selling? What if they just declined and didn't tell the dealer why (they are not obligated to say why)?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again, a lot of assumptions are being made.
Maybe anyone making those assumptions should read where the woman also contacted the OP to sell them after doing due diligence.
And, for the record, while I think most bank tellers are honest, there are some that aren't. They may be honest about their tills and what goes on, but some of them may not be totally upfront about everything.
I do so love hearing how people who don't know the other person, and only hear a portion of something, can call a 3rd party "unintelligent", "greedy", etc, and can know what they were thinking and how they should react.
Spot on , consider the old lady , she goes to trade change for paper , get's told it's worth more than she thinks , while she's wondering about that a teller makes a call and long story short, why should she trust people who appear to be in "cahoots" for want of a better word , but that's just how she might have seen it.
I did understand she did return later but that's not to say she didnt do the right thing , Ron again got it right with "due dilligence" .
Personally i don't really care if Millie is a cheapskate as pondered me1874 , i kinda admire those qualities actually , not enough thrifty people in the world , if there was ..well..that's another story isnt it.We all love a bargain ...don't we ? >>
Perhaps someone can help me understand why Millie would ever become upset with or think the teller was in "cahoots" with anyone... Millie was ready to dump the coins at face had no one said anything! If anything, Millie should have been grateful that the teller was not only honest, but put her in touch with a strong buyer! Instead, Millie then infers, if not outright says "Now hold on a minute. Now that it appears they're worth something, I'm going to get the last nickel"...If that's not greed, then at a minimum it smacks of someone who is an ingrate IMO... and I'd bet money that if someone else had offered ten bucks more, OP wouldn't have seen her again. >>
Try this sometime. Open every door for the closest person behind you. See how long it takes you before you get annoyed because not everyone of them is going to stop and say thank you for holding the door for them. If you're the type to expect something in return for doing a good deed, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Helping others doesn't have to demand reciprocation. It should be rewarding enough knowing that you have helped someone else out. Good deeds need no recognition. It only adds to the benefit of all of humanity in a positive way.
Society necessitates greed which is the foundation of capitalism which is the underlying basis of control of the people.
a. in partnership; in league.
brings me the exam and points out that I left an entire page blank. Incredible since I had never had that happen before or since. He tells me I can take some time and finish
those questions after class. When I got the graded exam back I noticed that the teacher either mismarked or subtracted for a right answer, don't recall which.
I was just performing "diligence" as Millie did...holding the teacher accountable if you will. The teacher recognized his "error" and made the correction in my favor. I don't think
I was aware that those "mistakes" were on the very blank page I had been given extra time to finish. But in the final analysis, it doesn't really matter.
I never heard another word on this until end of the school year when the teacher took me aside. He said that ever since that exam incident, whenever there was a benefit of a doubt
in grading anything I had subitted or produced, he erred against me. He said he lost a lot of respect for me. And that sort of hurt since I had taken his class before and thought we
had a decent bond going. While his point of view never occurred to me because of my "diligent" attitude about everything, he was perfectly correct. I was an idiot who didn't even
respond properly by looking a gift horse in the mouth. I was due nothing on my blank exam page as I was willing to cash it in for "face value." The teacher gave me >90% of
"spot" for it. That lesson stuck very well with me ever since. And to this day I don't know if the teacher purposely injected an error into his corrections just to "test" me.
I failed his small "test" on life but learned a much more valuable lesson. Millie never learned this lesson back in 11th grade, maybe because her teacher never gave her the full story.
Neither one of us was technically wrong....just doing our "due diligence." But there's a time to drop the diligence facade and be thankful for the good deal you got.
Not every i has to be dotted nor every t crossed.
BTW, I wonder what would have happened had this lady went into the shops that wouldn't give a quote over the phone. Apparently she didn't know a lot of shops won't do this. I'm sure the OP is an honest business person, yet he states he gave a strong offer. I guess only him and her know for sure as I don't believe it was ever stated what it was.
We all know how seedy the coin, pawn, and bullion buying business can be. There are more horror stories than happy endings...by far. But, how many people walk into a coin or pawn
shop and start spending with old silver coins? Millie was in the rarified air of the top 1%. She was taking herself for an unassisted fleecing by accepting 5% of what her coins were worth (ie face value). It wasn't like she knowingly shopped her stuff around before hitting the bank and received offers of no more than face value. I too would get annoyed if I was the one offering the homeowner $1,000 for his junk that he was in the process of throwing away. His counteroffer would have been met with, "you can just keep tossing that stuff in the junk pile, in can now see I was mistaken."
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Shopping offers on things you know have potential value is one thing. But shopping offers on something you were throwing out is quite different. And spending old coins is basically throwing them out. A homeowner is ready to discard the entire contents of the house at a junkyard until someone also dumping comes along and offers $1,000 for the contents. Then the homeowner starts haggling the price upwards. Millie was at the stage of throwing it away, not performing due diligence as to its value before arriving at the bank.
We all know how seedy the coin, pawn, and bullion buying business can be. There are more horror stories than happy endings...by far. But, how many people walk into a coin or pawn
shop and start spending with old silver coins? Millie was in the rarified air of the top 1%. She was taking herself for an unassisted fleecing by accepting 5% of what her coins were worth (ie face value). It wasn't like she knowingly shopped her stuff around before hitting the bank and received offers of no more than face value. I too would get annoyed if I was the one offering the homeowner $1,000 for his junk that he was in the process of throwing away. His counteroffer would have been met with, "you can just keep tossing that stuff in the junk pile, in can now see I was mistaken." >>
Roadrunner, I'll ask you the same thing I put above as a reply to TP1.........how does the woman know she was being given a fair offer?
Yes, she was willing to exchange at face value because she was not aware of the true value, but once aware it was worth more than fair value, why should she be commited to taking that unknown offer without due diligence?
If it were my mom or friend, I sure as heck wouldn't want her to do that. Would you? Let's not play the "she would know better", "she would call me", etc game on this. Just answer "why should she be expected to take an on-the-spot offer that she has done no background on just because she was ignorant of the true value of the coins just prior????"
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>I've come to my senses today and am thinking that it is possible that Millie was blinded,in a flash, by due diligence (not greed) after the bank teller informed her that her coins were worth far more than face value and that he knew someone other than himself who would buy them from her for a fair price. >>
Amen. That's exactly how I see it. She was right to go to that bank and the people who served her, served her well. No worries.
I've lost a few customers having them "shop around". Some dealers say that is a "no no", but it serves the customer best. I know I can't win them all and I sure can't afford them all.
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THANK YOU ROADRUNNER. Someone has finally communicated the point I was attempting to, and in a much more concise fashion. And in the context of that reasoning imo Millie was being ungrateful and/or greedy in my opinion.
It's not about "expecting something in return for a good deed"; it's about not being INSULTED when you do a good deed. And essentially telling someone who just did you a huge favor that you basically don't trust their offer to be fair so you're going to now shop it around-when a few minutes before, you had no idea that it even HAD any value and were ready to just spend it at face- is an insult.
People on these boards are very quick to call dealers scummy, unethical widow-robbers, etc...but here we have an honest guy doing a really nice thing for someone... and even so, some still dislike dealers so much they can't bring themselves to acknowledge it. Instead it's "Meh. So what- he still might have been hosing her for all she knew". Wow. Just wow.
In case no one figured it out yet, I've been in OP's shoes only with a different outcome. I've also been in OP's shoes and had the bank official buy the deal out from under me, where I was basically (unknowingly) setting the value so HE could buy it... So, in fairness I suppose my remarks are coming from perhaps a slightly more jaded place.
I realize that doing a good deed is its own reward, etc. and I understand the "holding the door open" scenario... but once in a while would it kill someone to at least say thanks?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012