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San Francisco Mint 112 years ago

EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 4, 2018 9:18AM in U.S. Coin Forum

This image was taken by a suspended airship on May 5, 1906. The original image is in my office.

Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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Comments

  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018 4:18PM

    Cool photos of some major devastation.

    Donato

    Edited to add: Those are some big doors at the Mint.

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  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOW.... Nice photos!!

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    very cool history.

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018 9:00AM

    @RogerB said:
    Great!

    RE: "This image was taken by a suspended airship on May 5, 1906. The original is in my office."

    How did you get a 110-year old airship into your office? Business must be really good! :)

    See, I interpreted @EagleEye's statement to mean he had the original SF mint in his office. ;)

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wonderful photo -- I've never seen it before.

    Thanks for posting it!

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    cool, i love history like that.

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  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,327 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool!

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We have a copy of the same photo up in the kitchen at Kagin's. The devastation after the 1906 quake is just unbelievable.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
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  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Regulated said:
    We have a copy of the same photo up in the kitchen at Kagin's. The devastation after the 1906 quake is just unbelievable.

    Yes, It is probably from Jim Cauley of Errors and More. He sold me this original and was selling copies made from it at the Las Vegas show.

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: "We have a copy of the same photo up in the kitchen at Kagin's."

    Is that a subtle reminder to Kagin's staff about their cooking habits? :)

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    RE: "We have a copy of the same photo up in the kitchen at Kagin's."

    Is that a subtle reminder to Kagin's staff about their cooking habits? :)

    If you only knew. I kid you not, it can be dangerous in there.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • QCCoinGuyQCCoinGuy Posts: 333 ✭✭✭✭

    Fantastic images. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Superb thread. Forum at its very best.

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,572 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember when the old mint museum was still open they had a small stack of silver coinage that had been fused together during the fire.

    My second great grandmother lived in SF during the earthquake, just having moved there from Utah. Her home made it through the earthquake just fine - but the fire was another story. Sometime when I get to the safe deposit box I will take and post a picture of the gold Southern Pacific pocket watch that was burned in the fire.

    Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have read that the 1916 Pan-Pacific Exposition was an announcement that the San Francisco area was back from the earthquake. This picture shows how far they had to come.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fantastic photo, thread, comments all. I've heard about the Granite Lady being nearly the lone survivor but the pic says it all, and the Leach letter says it didn't come easy at all. Full force of the government defending the mint did it.

    Also of interest was the statement about the "small display of coins and bars relevant to the West". I always enjoy the SF mint museum display when I visit...I wonder how much of what's there now was there then...

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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A kitchen in a coin shop? Do you cook food or coins? :D

    @Regulated said:
    We have a copy of the same photo up in the kitchen at Kagin's. The devastation after the 1906 quake is just unbelievable.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: ".I wonder how much of what's there now was there then..."
    None of it. The SF Mint display was removed once public tours were stopped in 1923. Most ended up in the Smithsonian Collection and at the FRB of San Francisco.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven't yet toured the FRB in SF, it's on my bucket list. I have toured 7 of the 12.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    RE: ".I wonder how much of what's there now was there then..."
    None of it. The SF Mint display was removed once public tours were stopped in 1923. Most ended up in the Smithsonian Collection and at the FRB of San Francisco.

    Well, I've toured the Granite Lady several times since the 70's, and latest a few years ago, and indeed there is an impressive museum with coins and bars and such, with many private gold coins, etc. I remember as a kid seeing the stack of gold bars (the "1M dollar display") in one of the old vaults.

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  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 197 ✭✭✭

    Interesting photos! My late grandmother lived in the Bay area at the time of the shaker.
    She was just a little girl and her family was in the shipping business. They spent some time on
    a vessel in the Bay and watched SF burn. I am a third generation CA native. The "name"
    of Captain Blunt is not a drug reference. Blunt was the last name of the captain of the Winfield
    Scott that wrecked on Anacapa Island in December of 1853 with a load of gold dust and
    some Cal fractionals, etc....

  • StoogeStooge Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love interesting threads like this. The pictures are just incredible.

    @shorecoll said:
    I haven't yet toured the FRB in SF, it's on my bucket list. I have toured 7 of the 12.

    This is on my bucket list to visit all 12 FRB's plus the 2 BEP's. I've been to Chicago's FRB twice. Once wen they gave tours up inside where they have the counting machines. They don't let the public up there anymore.


    Later, Paul.
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool history.

    The earth looks pretty flat in those photos. Maybe it is.......

  • WHPRATTWHPRATT Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    Gold Delivery - Coiners Book from the SF Mint that was put into use just after the big quake in 1906. Along with the SF Mint Assay book from the late 1890's (obscured, bottom)

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EagleEye ...Great picture and the devastation is incredible. In person, it is always much more of a shock. I have gone through areas hit by tornado and hurricane.... The pictures we see on TV just cannot compare to the impact of reality. Cheers, RickO

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018 9:07AM

    Those two volumes look "too good to be true."

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great pics!!

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • edited May 5, 2018 2:19PM
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  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,982 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, thanks for posting such a great historical photo.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • Wil1858Wil1858 Posts: 53 ✭✭✭

    Indeed, thanks for posting !

  • WHPRATTWHPRATT Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB How so?

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Those two volumes look "too good to be true."

    @WHPRATT said:
    @RogerB How so?

    The bindings look new. 100-year old government leather does not look like that. The gold lettering is perfect - also not typical of something from 1906. Also, NARA did not, so far as I am aware, ever rebind old documents in leather. The material requires regular care to prevent drying, cracking and eventual deterioration into orange dust. It also out-gasses which can damage paper.

    Lastly, no one would be permitted to take slabbed coins into a NARA facility, or remove volumes from a NARA facility. Thus, the photo is almost certainly a studio recreation.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Roger those could have been custom bound at the time or later. They also could have come from the private libraries of mint officials. I wouldn't automatically dismiss them. Many/most numismatists back then used custom binderies.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2018 3:25PM

    I can only trust what I've seen of legitimate contemporary document bindings. 100-year old leather does not look like that. Mint officials did not re-bind volumes. Binding was done soon after the volume was complete and that was the end of it. If US Mint volumes were taken out of the San Francisco Mint and not returned, then they were either stolen or legitimately recovered from discarded documents.

    Further, there is no "Gold Delivery Book - Coiner" shown on either the current San Francisco Mint document inventory, or the 1940 original inventory (excerpt below).

    Until shown otherwise, I have to consider the volumes in the photo fake.

    Can you point me toward the source of the photo or the owner of the volumes?

  • HighReliefHighRelief Posts: 3,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very historical pictures seeing just how devastating the earthquake and fire were. The old granite lady was right in the middle of it and lived to tell the tale.
    Thanks for posting the pictures Rick.

  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Here's the telegram sent by Frank Leach to Mint HQ.

    [RG104 E-229 Box 244 SF]

    Thanks for posting the telegram. It is very insightful and helps explain why the mint building seems to stand out alone as an oasis amid the photographed destruction.

  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2018 5:58PM

    @BillJones said:
    I have read that the 1916 Pan-Pacific Exposition was an announcement that the San Francisco area was back from the earthquake. This picture shows how far they had to come.

    For those who have found this thread of interest, the photos relating to the 1916 Pan-Pacific Exposition as posted on the below linked thread may also be found to be of added historical significance:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11959097#Comment_11959097

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018 6:25AM

    Thanks for providing the information and helping satisfy my skeptical questions. :)

    Checking the 2011 photos, the covers have wear consistent with their date, and the entries are correct for what was actually the "Coiner's Record of Receipt and Delivery." The spine, as shown in the posted photos, is almost perfect - very unusual, but apparently authentic. It would be nice if the present owner would allow the volume to be digitized and then added to the NNP database.

    The volume itself, had to have been removed from the San Francisco Mint's holdings. When this was done it is impossible to tell. There are many other US Mint materials with a similar unknown status. My view is that they are legal to own, unless the Mint Bureau can conclusively establish when and how they were removed.

  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 197 ✭✭✭

    This volume was at the Archives in SF in the 1970's. It was removed by the Government in a disposal effort
    that took place in 1982. Someone must have fished it out of the trash. Many other volumes were also
    disposed of.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ahhhh....Now this makes sense. It must have been at the SF Mint. NARA would not have disposed of it. Later regulations required extensive NARA review before these could be discarded, but in the 1970s that was not the case.

    If more of these are known, I'd like to hear from the owners so they can be digitized. No cost to the owners.

  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 197 ✭✭✭

    The records were deemed to have no intrinsic value...
    An Archivist of the U.S. signed off on the order to dispose of the volumes

    J.J. Ford Jr. was extremely interested in one missing volume in particular.
    He stated that it showed that a San Francisco madam by the name of Mrs. John
    Keenan had received eleven gold bars from the S.F. Branch Mint prior to boarding
    what would become the Brother Jonathan's final voyage up the coast.
    He stated he saw it in 1971, but it was now missing circa the late 1990's.

    I did not find the volume on the disposal list nor at the Archives.

    J.J. Ford Jr. then made an effort to contact book sellers in the SF area hoping it would turn up there
    but in the end it did not matter. The volume in question would not have proven the
    authenticity of the so called eleven 1865 S.F. Mint S.S. Brother Jonathan gold bars...

    I think one of the salvors of the wreck pictured some of the bars on a brochure
    stating that there was more gold like this waiting to be found on the wreck.

    There were all fake....the 1865 SF Mint gold bars....not the coins of course

  • WHPRATTWHPRATT Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB

    I took that picture and purposely cropped the areas where you would see wear and some water damage on the cover. No Photoshop or other edits were done to the image. It was also taken with a smartphone.

    The story is that the mint threw out most of the documents and ledgers back in the 70's. Somebody went dumpster diving, or rumored to, and saved these from the dump. Several have come up for auction over the years from San Francisco and the Carson City Mint.

    I've always had an interest in the San Francisco Mint and the California Gold Rush, having ancestors in California dating back to the beginning 1849. It is truly sad that the Granite Lady continues to sit in disarray and the city of San Francisco doesn't have interest in making it a priority. Hopefully that changes soon.

    In the meantime, many collectors continue to be the custodians of such documents that sooner or later end up coming up for sale again or donated to a proper museum for display.

  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did attend a couple of coin shows that were held in the Old Mint building, and they were some of my favorite coin shows of all time. Great setting for such an event. Not sure when the last one was...

    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the information. I'd be pleased to digitize any that might turn up.

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