PCGS Cert Verification showing eBay auction prices

gradeacoins

Has anyone else noticed that PCGS Certification lookup is now showing the realized auction/buy-it-now prices on eBay? Pardon me if this has been going on for a while, I am just noticing this

For example you can lookup certification #s 21037538 or 35248043 and see what they sold for this month. eBay must be providing them this information based on certification # entered in the description of the item

I have two problems with this. One, it does not factor in best offer prices realized or if the coin was sold for at a lower price via an offer to a buyer so could be wildly inaccurate. Two, that the certification #s I have noticed on eBay are often inaccurately input (this is a bigger problem because you can't look at more than a couple months history on eBay, so in July you won't even be able to see if the certification # was wrongly input or if the coin really sold at that price).

Personally, I don't really agree with pulling the prices off the wild west that is eBay because there are so many variables or things that could go wrong versus the realized prices on a site like Heritage.

Sorry if this has been discussed, I couldn't find any topics on it in the search function. What are your thoughts on this?

asheland

to the boards.

LindeDad

I think eBay has a lot less palm tree bidders, but it does have a few if you follow the auctions.

Peace_dollar88

I have noticed more and more Ebay sold records in the cert verify feature.

ShadyDave

I did notice that update and I think it helps give collectors a more accurate picture of the real market value of their coin(s). The more current data points, the more accurate ability to price coins IMO.

ms70

@gradeacoins said:
I have two problems with this. One, it does not factor in best offer prices realized or if the coin was sold for at a lower price via an offer to a buyer so could be wildly inaccurate.

I just checked a coin which I used the "best offer" feature on from just last week. The price showing on the PCGS cert page is correct and reflects the price I actually paid. If you click the link to the eBay auction it simply brings you to the standard "This listing has ended" page and shows the original asking price.

It appears PCGS got it right and the cert page reflects the actual price realized.

jt88

I think that’s a good thing. It provide more price info for collectors.

jt88

By the way ngc do the same for a long time.

ms70

I'm glad our new member posted this and brought it to my (our) attention. Good info.

gradeacoins

@ms70 said:

@gradeacoins said:
I have two problems with this. One, it does not factor in best offer prices realized or if the coin was sold for at a lower price via an offer to a buyer so could be wildly inaccurate.

I just checked a coin which I used the "best offer" feature on from just last week. The price showing on the PCGS cert page is correct and reflects the price I actually paid. If you click the link to the eBay auction it simply brings you to the standard "This listing has ended" page and shows the original asking price.

It appears PCGS got it right and the cert page reflects the actual price realized.

This is very good if true, though unless ebay is providing them that direct info I don't know how that could be. Could you show us the cert?

I checked a couple of mine I sold on offers and they were not put in correct, that's why I said that. If that's not true in every case then that's definitely a good thing!

I do remain skeptical that if they are pulling it somehow from the ebay website by using the certification # in the description (my fairly safe assumption) that they could often be inaccurate. Also do have a problem (but this is more with ebay) that they don't store page listings for more than 90 days so soon you won't even be able to see if that was the same coin or how that coin was listed on ebay (auction/fixed price).

Either way glad everyone here is optimistic

ms70

@gradeacoins said:

This is very good if true, though unless ebay is providing them that direct info I don't know how that could be. >Could you show us the cert?

I woudn't mind at all, but the difference between the asking price and the realized price was considerable. I'm hesitant out of respect for the dealer who might not want the specifics of that deal known. I'll check and see if I have any over the last 90 days that would still be in the eBay system.

mannie gray

Not a great idea in my opinion.
Suppose a coin gets buried and few buyers see it and it sells for a song.
Now, that is now the new price?
What if the seller ends the auction at a weird time, or lists in wrong category, or there is an error in the listing?
Too many lowball buyers already use the lowest recent price sold on eBay as their new offer, conveniently ignoring other more realistic prices.
Bad idea.

OPA

For modern, post 1950 issues, that's the way to go. It gives you a more realistic price instead of the 20% or more inflated PCGS's price guide.

GoldenEgg

@mannie gray said:
Not a great idea in my opinion.
Suppose a coin gets buried and few buyers see it and it sells for a song.
Now, that is now the new price?
What if the seller ends the auction at a weird time, or lists in wrong category, or there is an error in the listing?
Too many lowball buyers already use the lowest recent price sold on eBay as their new offer, conveniently ignoring other more realistic prices.
Bad idea.

Could have the same issues with HA or Stacks auction records too. Maybe remove those prices-realized too?

In general this does seem helpful, but the OP's concerns are valid.

gradeacoins

@mannie gray said:
Not a great idea in my opinion.
Suppose a coin gets buried and few buyers see it and it sells for a song.
Now, that is now the new price?
What if the seller ends the auction at a weird time, or lists in wrong category, or there is an error in the listing?
Too many lowball buyers already use the lowest recent price sold on eBay as their new offer, conveniently ignoring other more realistic prices.
Bad idea.

Yeah that's many of my concerns, particularly as a seller but really just as a collector in general too. Not so much immediately, but say in August 2018 I buy a coin that was sold previously on eBay for $100 in April 2018. That information on the sale price is now stored forever, but what if the original seller: ended it at a weird time, took a bad photo (very common since not everyone on ebay is a professional photographer like a Heritage), juiced their photo, listed it too low originally, subsequently got CAC approval, etc. Now in August you can't go back to that original eBay page since they only store if for 90 days, so there's no way to know if that's the coins real market value and was auctioned off ending on a weekend by a respectable company, or if all the factors listed played a major part in the coin selling for less.

So I list that coin at it's more fair market value at $200 and everyone will be scared off because they see it sold previously for 100 without any information on the original listing. If PCGS were using this information in aggregate to just update their general price guides to be more accurate, I would be completely in favor of that. I'm not as big of a fan of carrying that at the individual coin level for many reasons.

TLDR: I think listing the price realized on the PCGS Cert Verification page is bad because of eBay's lack of long-term storage of their listings so there's no possible way to see the conditions of how the coin was listed.

spacehayduke

@ms70 said:

@gradeacoins said:
I have two problems with this. One, it does not factor in best offer prices realized or if the coin was sold for at a lower price via an offer to a buyer so could be wildly inaccurate.

I just checked a coin which I used the "best offer" feature on from just last week. The price showing on the PCGS cert page is correct and reflects the price I actually paid. If you click the link to the eBay auction it simply brings you to the standard "This listing has ended" page and shows the original asking price.

It appears PCGS got it right and the cert page reflects the actual price realized.

I just checked one I bought in ebay with a best offer as well. Price is correct for the cert# on pcgs.com, so it looks like they do put in accurate best offer prices.

Best, SH

ricko

@gradeacoins.... Welcome aboard.... You have valid concerns. That being said, price guides are just guides and this is one more to add to an aggregate assessment when buying/selling a coin. Cheers, RickO

Zoins

@gradeacoins said:
Has anyone else noticed that PCGS Certification lookup is now showing the realized auction/buy-it-now prices on eBay? Pardon me if this has been going on for a while, I am just noticing this

For example you can lookup certification #s 21037538 or 35248043 and see what they sold for this month. eBay must be providing them this information based on certification # entered in the description of the item

It seems the eBay prices are not listed for these certs any more.

• https://www.pcgs.com/cert/21037538
• https://www.pcgs.com/cert/35248043

johnny010

Interesting topic.
eBay owns the data
The data is public
I still feel if I buy a coin the price should be private after the 90 days that it drops off eBay’s sold tracker. I understand why the price is not private, but if you find a seller who has an auction that ends at say 2am and bidding is weak, not thinking that should be a reference point to drive market value, especially since some of these coins we collect are very low pop.

Cougar1978

I like it that CF / PCGS Cert verify includes the eBay prices realized. Strongly believe it should. eBay is probably the worlds largest RCI / market place. Every numismatic deal is unique in itself. Some lose some win. I really loved eBay in the old days before the big boys came in. Made good money there. I recall this one coin shop blowing out a huge collection of NBN. I literally cleaned up there - the other bidders for most part knew nothing about them let alone had the Kelly book. I liked it when bad buyers could be negged. I believe in free speech.

As a player on both sides of the ball - I have acquired many nice pickups off the bay plus sold many coin & currency items acquired there and at shows getting good retail.

Whether the Bay, Shows, or some Auction House each stadium has its pluses and minus factors. One has to factor that into formation used, playbook.

spyglassdesign

Don't know about the certs but coinfacts has been allowing that option for some time. One thing that the raw numbers don't show is the quality of the coin. Just because one coin sold for $2000 while another sold for $1000, you have to actually see the coin sold in order to do a proper comparison. The $2k coin may be a rare variety, have cac, be a monster toner, or some other factor that caused the price to soar. Or the seller got lucky and had 2 or more who REALLY wanted that one coin.

Unfortunately it's easy to just look at some numbers and make a decision (whether selling or buying) without ever knowing WHY something may have sold for a certain amount. As one who buys and sells, it's important for me to not get lazy and actually look past the data, or I could get burned on either or both ends.

As others have said ebay can be a bit of an albatross in that the quality and quantity varies substantially and the numbers alone don't tell the whole story. Showing it by default could distort the truth for those not doing proper due diligence.

DeplorableDan

@spyglassdesign said:
Don't know about the certs but coinfacts has been allowing that option for some time. One thing that the raw numbers don't show is the quality of the coin. Just because one coin sold for $2000 while another sold for $1000, you have to actually see the coin sold in order to do a proper comparison. The $2k coin may be a rare variety, have cac, be a monster toner, or some other factor that caused the price to soar. Or the seller got lucky and had 2 or more who REALLY wanted that one coin.

Unfortunately it's easy to just look at some numbers and make a decision (whether selling or buying) without ever knowing WHY something may have sold for a certain amount. As one who buys and sells, it's important for me to not get lazy and actually look past the data, or I could get burned on either or both ends.

As others have said ebay can be a bit of an albatross in that the quality and quantity varies substantially and the numbers alone don't tell the whole story. Showing it by default could distort the truth for those not doing proper due diligence.

Not to mention eBay sales that are listed wrong end up getting cataloged wrong. Many times I check a comp to see that the coin is the wrong date, mint mark, or just a different coin entirely. Also could be a lot of 2 coins or more, so as you say it’s best to at eBay data is optional and you make sure to actually open them. My one wish is that we could get GC sales on there but I don’t think that will happen anytime soon.

burfle23

These are the ones I have reported about- tied through PCGS auctions...

toyz4geo

@ricko said:
@gradeacoins.... Welcome aboard.... You have valid concerns. That being said, price guides are just guides and this is one more to add to an aggregate assessment when buying/selling a coin. Cheers, RickO

It depends whether you are buying or selling. For some reason, a given coin is always more valuable when I am buying than that same coin is worth when I am selling.

MasonG

@toyz4geo said:
For some reason, a given coin is always more valuable when I am buying than that same coin is worth when I am selling.

If you're buying from a dealer, it's almost certain they are going to want to sell a coin for more than than they paid to get it. Heck- most collectors would prefer that scenario, too. It's not rocket surgery.

spyglassdesign

@toyz4geo said:

@ricko said:
@gradeacoins.... Welcome aboard.... You have valid concerns. That being said, price guides are just guides and this is one more to add to an aggregate assessment when buying/selling a coin. Cheers, RickO

It depends whether you are buying or selling. For some reason, a given coin is always more valuable when I am buying than that same coin is worth when I am selling.

Ain't that the truth? 😅 Anyone who sells feels your pain.