Pocket Piece Experiment
Josh32
Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
I had the thought of documenting how a coin wears over time. I think it would be interesting to see how long it takes a coin to go from MS to AU to XF and so on to the lower grades. Has such a process ever been documented with actual pictures and amount of time it took?
My initial thoughts would be to take a picture of the coin every week and then make a time lapse video of the wear process. I would need to have the same lighting set up and position for every picture to keep it consistent. This would obviously be a very long process and take years to complete.
For those that have had pocket pieces, how long does it take a coin to wear out completely? Does it depend on style of clothing, other things in the pocket that come into contact with the coin like other coins, pocket knives, etc?
Also, if you guys would find interest in this, what coins should I do this with? Obviously if I am starting with a mint state coin it can't be something too expensive, maybe a morgan, peace, or walking liberty half of common date.
Let me know your thoughts.
Comments
That would be very interesting to see, I probably would not be around to see the final video though.
I would use a Kennedy Half or an Eisenhower Dollar but you would have to decide on silver or clad.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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There are certainly many variables in such an experiment. Coin metal (i.e. silver, gold, clad, copper), size (dime, dollar), other pocket contents - same variables apply. Activity level - couch potato vs. hospital nurse or cop on a beat......So, defining the parameters and then setting up the rest of the experiment would be interesting. Of course, it would only define the rate of wear for that specific set of circumstances. Cheers, RickO
I've been carrying for years. Office job, pocket wallet, lighter, change all in the same pocket. You would barely notice wear on the couple pieces after sed years, and I'm talking 10 years. I think weekly pics would be too quick unless you have some serious pocket 'stress' activity as ricko stated.
I did carry a Dan Carr copper piece for a few years, that turned chocolate brown pretty quick.
I used to carry a Morgan dollar as a pocket piece. One I remember clearly started out as a scratched AU and 6 years later was still a scratched AU. May have dropped a point or two from 58 to 55 or maybe 53. But, I was surprised as to how slow the process was.
Most of the wear must have come from registers and such, not pockets.
bob
Too many variables, but the results can be deduced with a little work.
The pocket piece of a person who carries loose diamond grit powder samples in their pockets while running a marathon every day will be different than Kim Kardashian's pocket piece stored in the side pocket of her chastity belt.
By it's very definition, a pocket piece is an aberration, as the average coin does not "live" in a pocket, but normally lives in a cash till, bank vault, coin purse, or the change jar at a house. Very few coins even live in a pocket today, as typically, only older men put coins in a pocket, the rest of people either put them in their purse or don't even use coins, paying off their smart phones. Plus, the pocket piece will be handled more every day, taken out, played with, returned, and depending on the OCD level of the person, and how much grit on their fingers, some coins may stay relatively pristine, and some become slicks pretty quickly. The other problem is loss of pocket pieces. Even expensive ones (Morgan Dollars, etc.) get lost. Trying to keep track of a single 2017 quarter might prove virtually impossible.
Although you cannot "see" their history, go get $1000 - $2000 in 5 10 or 25 cent coins, sort by date (mint mark not important) and then within each date, sort by grade. Plot the results, and you will probably get a series of small bell curves that will show average wear for a given coin, and then linking those curves together will show average wear patterns over sustained periods. For example, 1985 may be average EF, with VG to Virtual BU, while 2005 is Average AU with a F to Virtual BU range.
Geography will affect it, as coins in the northeast in a toll booth region will wear much faster than remote areas of Arizona, where coins just don't move about much.
I think I might agree. I'll bet the most normal wear comes from friction of coins against machines or each other (slot machine half dollars took a terrible beating, for example). I have seen a pic of someone's silver eagle pocket piece worn down to almost slick, but I suspect that had a lot of extra handling on a regular basis.
IMO (and that of others here) you will be wasting your time. Walking around for several decades with a single coin in your cloth pocket will not do much. Best results will be with a large and heavy piece yet it still will not do much.
Now, a better experiment that does produce results over a much shorter time is to carry about a dozen coins in your pocket. Some old time dealers did this in order to beat-up the surface of improperly cleaned or polished coins so they would look more natural.
It would be interesting to give multiple people the same coin, year, mint, and grade, and track the progression of wear over the years and how each of their life styles affect the coins. But even then it wouldn't be realistic because money is changing hands everyday. I bet the only coins staying in peoples pockets today for more than a week are pocket pieces already.
I guess then my main goal would be a very interesting and smooth time lapse. A time lapse where it looks as if the surface of the coin is disappearing melting away. It would make for an interesting video.
You might try a rock tumbler? These contraptions smooth rocks into polished beads and blobs. Available online $100-$300 depending on usage. Tumble and photograph every x number of hrs. Not sure of the usefulness of such an endeavor, but might end up with cool time lapse, if nothing else!
cheers
@Josh32 said: "I guess then my main goal would be a very interesting and smooth time lapse. A time lapse where it looks as if the surface of the coin is disappearing melting away. It would make for an interesting video."
I think you should do it!! We need more numismatists with inquiring minds as you have.
Please post a photo of the coin for us today and show us what it looks like - one image of both sides each week. You can have a contest where we all guess how long it will take to reach the AU-59 grade. Hopefully, this forum and most of us reading this will still be around.
Your project most certainly would be interesting, but problematic for the reasons listed.
Another idea; pick a date (2018, for example) and photograph coins of that date that you have pulled from circulation, going forward. Of course, individual coins may show wear that is skewed one way or the other, so maybe take 10 coins of that date and make a composite photo, for example. or use only coins that seem to show honest wear, etc. Then compare those composite photos over time to show the average wear on a coin of a certain date as it gets older.
I think some interesting "toning over time" experiments have been posted here. Maybe not as single time-lapse, but as individual photos over time.
If you have the inclination, I think you should give it a shot! Many may have seen the pictures of a family taken every year for decades. It's interesting if only because...someone actually did it! Same would be true for coin wear, or growth of the family dog, or pealing of paint on your house. The ideas are simple....the actual execution is where the interest lies!
This would speed up the process but wouldn't it look unnatural? Not sure if I have ever seen a rock tumbled coin before though.
Only 21 so I've got a lot of years left to mess around with it. As long as I don't OD on tide pods lol
Great. What coin are you going to use? The bigger the better.
Would most likely be a dollar or half dollar. Maybe a morgan or peace? Not really sure yet.
I love the idea, I tried to do it myself but I’ve misplaced about five pocket peices at this point.
My most recent loss was a proof silver Alaska quarter. Out there somewhere in the world is a Au55 2003 Wright brothers silver dollar I lost.
Reminds me of a pocket piece I carried briefly - one of those parody Arkansas quarters that showed Bill Clinton in a compromising position. I was living in pre-euro Germany at the time and as these were struck over real quarters but without a collar, they expanded slightly and I accidentally passed it off as a two mark coin in the local Irish bar. Never saw it again. I guess the laugh was worth at least 2 marks to the waitress.
For what its worth.
I have been carrying 8 Sac and president dollars for about a year now.
They are in a pocket with other coins and keys. I walk alot!!
They started out unc.
They are in the XF range now.
Look forward to your experiment. Let me know if you need a Morgan or something to work with. We could always use more younger people contributing here to keep this place going strong
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Sorry, while anything is possible, I don't buy it. There is a lot of difference between an Unc and an XF. A coin with a little wear and all beat up my be only worth XF money without having an XF amount of wear. Additionally, the coins you are carrying are struck in low relief. They may look to be a lot lower grade than they actually are.
In an effort at full disclosure.
I just pulled them out and checked them all. XF may be a bit optimistic.
I'll avg them at low AU.
I would imagine silver would wear more quickly.
Steel cents wear more quickly than you might think too.
It all depends on what you have on there with them and how much you move.
@Insider2
I see you were posting as I was.
I corrected myself a little.
You would be surprised though.
About 20 years ago, I had an appliance technician come to replace the belt on my dryer drum, and he found about 6 or 7 well-worn coins that must've been in the dryer for at least 10 years. They were the nicest-looking P or AG coins I've ever seen. I've moved a couple times since then and have misplaced them, but if I ever find them, I will post a pic.
I knew it would happen.
I bought a few new Gallery Mint pieces directly from them awhile ago (10+ years)
and put the 1794 FH half and 1794 Lg cent into a pouch pack along with other coins, keys, etc. Here's what they look like today although they don't see wear and tear every day. I recently picked up a 1793 Lg cent and will throw that into the mix to see how it wears over time. It takes a long, long time to wear an MS coin down!
Not sure why the reverse photo didn't post the first time.
somewhat related to this topic, but not by much, i started keeping a 2 dollar bill "pocket piece". dont know why, good luck? no matter what, i will always have 2 bucks on me? thanks rln
What an interesting topic! I think there is also some "urban legend" associated with it as well. I own a Fugio "New Haven Restrike" in an NGC slab as VG and each time I show it to copper collectors I am told "it must have been a pocket piece"- not sure if I buy it!
Do you have a pair of 150 year old denims that could substitute for todays sandpaper? Then you must wear them each day to see how coins wore so quickly in the 1800's but do not in today's cottony/polyester blend of clothing material. lol
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I carry a Morgan Dollar every day. Have for at least 10 years. I've lost it in the car or my easy chair hundreds of times. A few times it's fallen out in public but I've always luckily gotten it back. It's still a solid MS 63 as I put it into an airtight holder. That thing wears out to the point where I replace it at least once a year.
Moral to the story..............don't lose yours.
Hopefully you are young. This will take a long time and don't make it a nice coin as pocket pieces get lost. I have been carrying a Liberty Lobby half oz round for about a year and it looks the same as when I started carrying it.
I could probably just tie a denim bag to my dogs collar and let her run around with it. lol
I know that gold is a soft metal...but there were was an 1856-S $3 at VF 25....
and a few at VF 30, etc. working on up the scale, salvaged from the S.S.C.A. (Sept. 1857)
in 2014....PCGS Coin Facts
This is my keychain that’s in my pocket most of the time. It’s been a keychain for the better part of eight years now.
I'm sorry I'm new to coins as a friend recently made me interested. Why would anyone leave a coin in their pocket to waste away? What a waste of time, money, and effort. Just my 2 cents, pun intended.
Well, some carry a coin around for luck. One Southern coin dealer I know carries a pocket full of expensive, previously abused coins to make them look more "original."
Tom DeLorey carried an 1850-O dollar as a pocket piece. It was pretty worn down the last time I saw it.
Dude you’ve been trolling all of my posts. Lol