Home U.S. Coin Forum

Hansen watch.

1727375777890

Comments

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very hard to find any technical flaws on the 1903-S, except the toning does nothing for that coin. Without thinking too deeply, I would give that coin an acetone bath for only to prevent the toning from getting worse.

    OINK

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mark, before I wrote my previous post I reviewed the 1903-S coins on CoinFacts. The other 67's did not have "objectionable" toning, but I would agree they might be slightly less perfect regarding hits and dings. Toning can be a plus (my opinion) or it can be a negative ( again my opinion) .

    The toning on this coin can best be described as brown scum without any interesting color that is reflective of toned Morgans. The brown scum might be removed with acetone, but if not I would live with it. Doubtful that acetone would increase reactivity to the environment.

    OINK

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    Mark, before I wrote my previous post I reviewed the 1903-S coins on CoinFacts. The other 67's did not have "objectionable" toning, but I would agree they might be slightly less perfect regarding hits and dings. Toning can be a plus (my opinion) or it can be a negative ( again my opinion) .

    The toning on this coin can best be described as brown scum without any interesting color that is reflective of toned Morgans. The brown scum might be removed with acetone, but if not I would live with it. Doubtful that acetone would increase reactivity to the environment.

    OINK

    It sounds as if I like the toning better than you do.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    Mark, before I wrote my previous post I reviewed the 1903-S coins on CoinFacts. The other 67's did not have "objectionable" toning, but I would agree they might be slightly less perfect regarding hits and dings. Toning can be a plus (my opinion) or it can be a negative ( again my opinion) .

    The toning on this coin can best be described as brown scum without any interesting color that is reflective of toned Morgans. The brown scum might be removed with acetone, but if not I would live with it. Doubtful that acetone would increase reactivity to the environment.

    OINK

    It sounds as if I like the toning better than you do.😉

    Mark, we have different perspectives. You are a market maker in coins and I am a collector. We just have different perspectives.

    OINK

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:

    @MFeld said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    Mark, before I wrote my previous post I reviewed the 1903-S coins on CoinFacts. The other 67's did not have "objectionable" toning, but I would agree they might be slightly less perfect regarding hits and dings. Toning can be a plus (my opinion) or it can be a negative ( again my opinion) .

    The toning on this coin can best be described as brown scum without any interesting color that is reflective of toned Morgans. The brown scum might be removed with acetone, but if not I would live with it. Doubtful that acetone would increase reactivity to the environment.

    OINK

    It sounds as if I like the toning better than you do.😉

    Mark, we have different perspectives. You are a market maker in coins and I am a collector. We just have different perspectives.

    OINK

    Understood, though I have plenty of collector in me, too.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d say that toning is a slight negative personally...and a significant negative market-wise. Morgan collectors predominantly want them blast white or rainbow.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Upgrades from the Illinois Collection – Part 2

    This update is another great Morgan Dollar that has been added to D.L. Hansen Collection. This is a mid-six figure coin. As I discussed in the last update, Barry Stuppler has been marketing coins from the Illinois Collection. With the four that Mr. Hansen purchased last week, the available coins are down to only 62 remaining. Will we see more purchases by Mr. Hansen? At this point we don’t know. As we saw, the Hansen Collection of Morgan Dollars has moved up to #4 on the all-time list. It will take a few coins like this purchase to continue the move up. At this point, we do not know Mr. Hansen’s desire.

    The next collection up in the rankings is the Jack Lee Hall of Fame set. This collection is currently #3 on the all-times list, but I still see the set as the model or the best set of all-times. I know Mr. Perfection has discussed many times where due to the bonus points given to the sets, the best set may not be on the top of the ranking. Without rehashing all the details, for Morgan Dollars I agree with him. In my view, the Jack Lee set is still the top set. The Lee set leads in GPA with 66.57. The top two sets are 66.38 and 66.46 respectively. Also, the Lee Set is the only pure GEM set. All coins in the set are at least MS65 PCGS. No other set can make that claim, not either of the top two sets. On the top end, the Jack Lee set has three MS69 specimens. The other top sets don’t have any.

    From the Experts at PCGS: This is the undisputed all-time greatest set of Morgan dollars. In fact, it is one of the finest individual sets of United States coins ever assembled. It contains more than the 97 required coins; in fact, there are 175 coins in the set, not counting the proofs. Of those 175 coins (mint state and proof-like and deep mirror proof-like) there are 172 that qualify as the finest graded or tied for the finest graded. An incredible accomplishment combining unprecedented patience, dedication, and resources. Highlights of the Jack Lee Collection are an 1884-S graded MS68, the famous Wayne Miller 1886-O graded MS67DMPL, the Eliasberg 1889-CC graded MS68, the Norweb 1893-S graded MS67, an 1896-O graded MS66, an 1896-S graded an unbelievable MS69, and literally every other coin in the collection.

    I don’t know how many of the Jack Lee Coins are currently in the Hansen Collection. We have seen several of these in past couple weeks. The coin that you will see today is not a Jack Lee Specimen. The Lee Specimen is a MS 66 from the Wayne Miller Collection. At one time, he also had a MS64DMPL . As good as his coins are, the new Hansen, Clapp-Eliasberg 1883-S Morgan Dollar, MS67 Prooflike Specimen is considered the best. Let’s take a closer look.

    1883-S $1, PL MS67+ PL, CAC Approved, Ex: Clapp-Eliasberg

    According to PCGS Rarity and Survival Estimates, they estimate 7 specimens in GEM Prooflike condition with finest being the MS67+. The DMPL is even rarer with only 5 estimated total, with the finest MS64DMPL PCGS grade (The Jack Lee Specimen). In a 2009 Heritage sale, the coin condition rarity was described as: Best described as a condition rarity in top grades, the 1883-S Morgan dollar is relatively plentiful in lower Mint State grades. It is also a major rarity in prooflike preservation. A quick glance at the current PCGS population data will prove quite revealing: they have certified 2,266 examples in grades from MS60 to MS64, 22 coins in the same grade range with prooflike or deep prooflike surfaces, only 18 coins in grades from MS65 to MS67, and just two pieces in that grade range with prooflike surfaces, including the present piece from the Eliasberg Collection, a green-label PCGS coin that remains the single finest 1883-S dollar that PCGS has ever certified. It is in the top numerical grade for the issue, and it is the only Superb Gem certified with prooflike surfaces.

    Heritage explained: Until a few years ago, such specimens were very rare. However an enormous jump in the price of the 1883-S in 1973 - it moved from $75 to $275 in less than six months-brought many specimens into the market. Over 100 Uncirculated pieces were available at the summer 1973 Long Beach coin show. The Redfield hoard contained a quantity of high-quality 1883-S dollars. Most were well struck with good luster. As usual, surface abrasions prevented most from being considered in the gem category. The 1883-S is still a difficult date to obtain in strictly BU condition. ... BU specimens are usually well struck with good luster and are readily discernible from sliders. Bagmarks tend to be plentiful.

    The most recent auction appearance for this coin was the sale of The Sanderson Family Collection by Heritage in 2009. The coin set an auction record of $161,000. There is not much doubt that this coin would set a new record of it was to come to auction today. The coin was described as: This amazing coin is fully prooflike, deep enough that Dave Bowers cataloged the coin as MS66 Deep Prooflike in the Eliasberg catalog. The surfaces have a hint of pale champagne toning on both sides, although most collectors would readily call it a fully brilliant silver specimen. Like nearly all Mint State 1883-S dollars, it is sharply struck. In the Eliasberg catalog, Dave Bowers said the following about the present coin, a comment that is equally apropos today: "The 1883-S [MS67 PL] Eliasberg Collection specimen is one of the most important Morgan dollars of this date to come on the market in our generation."

    This is another great coin that has made its way into the Hansen Collection. Barry Stuppler listed the coin on his Mint State Gold website for $475,000. He described the coin as: Here is an 1883 San Francisco $1 Silver Morgan Dollar, which has graded MS67+ with extraordinary Proof-Like surfaces by PCGS and has been holdered with the prestigious Illinois Set label. This Morgan is perfect for PCGS registry set collectors. Prior to the Illinois set, this Morgan belonged to the also well-renowned Eliasberg set. Pale champagne toning gives this Silver Dollar a uniquely ethereal eye-appeal. Bold devices are strikingly articulated against predominantly clear Proof-Like fields. Beaming with original mint luster and coming to life in intricate details, this numismatic treasure is sure to elevate any collection or portfolio.Additionally, this Morgan Silver Dollar is the FINEST KNOWN in existence and is the highest grade to have achieved CAC certification.

    The four coins that Mr. Hansen purchased from Barry Stuppler from the Illinois Morgans were great additions. The Stuppler well is not dry. There are several other great opportunities. There are at least eight more POP 1/0 specimens. Will we see Mr. Hansen hit that well again? Anything is possible. Let’s wait and see if the Morgan Collection by Hansen continues to get better.

    Provenance: Harlan P. Smith or John Mills Collection; S.H. and H. Chapman; J.M. Clapp; John H. Clapp; Louis Eliasberg Sr., (Bowers and Merena, 4/1997), lot 2265, Realized $137,500; Sanderson Family Collection, (Heritage 1/2009), Lot #4964, Realized $161,000; Illinois Set Collection (PCGS Set Registry), offered by Barry Stuppler (Mint State Gold), D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1883-S Morgan Dollar MS67+PL
    PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #37728086, PCGS #7149
    PCGS Value Guide: $450,000 / Asked $475,000
    From Illinois Collection, Ex: Clapp-Eliasberg-Sanderson

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for mentioning Perfection in the above comments. It is 100% true that the top listed set is not always the finest set for a variety of reasons. The top bonus is one flaw in the PCGS registry software. Not a flaw but
    something that I believe that was dreamed up by the former PCGS regime to help a certain person. There is no
    good reason to reward someone for a top pop with even more points. They already have a top pop! PCGS should remove the top bonus from the registry.
    Also it is far harder to build a top CAC set because many non CAC coins in regular sets are marginal for the grade.
    So is a complete or nearly complete CAC set whose points are slightly below a non CAC set finer? it would be nice to compare sets side by side.
    Can DLH get to the top of the Morgan set registry? I guess it is possible. He is buying much better coins these days and many if not most are CAC. I applaud him!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020 7:51AM

    @Currin said:
    Provenance: U.S. Coins Signature Auction (Heritage 11/2020), Lot # 3381, Realized $50,400, D. L. Hansen Collection.

    1898 Quarter Eagle, PR68+DCAM
    The Sole Finest Example at PCGS
    POP 1/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #82901740, PCGS #97924
    PCGS Price Guide: not listed / realized $50,400

    Gorgeous coin! I'm surprised there's no provenance other that the Heritage auction.

    Here's the Heritage photos which are also really nice.

    Also, love the 1898 Spanish American War date.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020 4:06PM

    Zions, the Heritage image shows a lot more pizzazz. The holder lips and the plastic scratches are a little distracting. I am not sure how old the TrueView image is, but I know PCGS have work for the past year to improve their images.

    The purpose of the image is important. For sale purposes, the Heritage image serves its purpose really well. Great looking image of the coin. For me, I find the TrueValue images serve a better purpose for seeing and locating all the identification markers on the coin. Auction images in many cases mask some of the markers. In this case, the coin is amazing in both images. At least the coin is is not blacken, as in some TrueView DCAM images.

    Great group of pictures. Thanks for sharing.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020 5:34PM

    @Currin said:
    Zions, the Heritage image shows a lot more pizzazz. The holder lips and the plastic scratches are a little distracting. I am not sure how old the TrueView image is, but I know PCGS have work for the past year to improve their images.

    The purpose of the image is important. For sale purposes, the Heritage image serves its purpose really well. Great looking image of the coin. For me, I find the TrueValue images serve a better purpose for seeing and locating all the identification markers on the coin. Auction images in many cases mask some of the markers. In this case, the coin is amazing in both images. At least the coin is is not blacken, as in some TrueView DCAM images.

    Great group of pictures. Thanks for sharing.

    I like the contrast in the Heritage and TrueView photos. Photos can vary so much that I almost always think more is better.

    I think it's a mistake for Heritage to stop their own close up photos in favor of TrueView or PhotoVision.

    I like how Stack's continues to do their own close up photos and adds TrueView / PhotoVision.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm drooling over the rims on that 1862 $2.5

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I looked at this thread briefly for the third time ever as I was interested. In what the various posters reaction was to the Hansen collection pursuit and their comments.

    However, I do limit my time studying Hansen’s hunt to complete his collection as it takes away from my hunt to expand my own collection. Nothing against Hansen but my own hunt is important to me.

    I might be jaded since I spent so many hours with Mrs. Norweb in her vault room In Ohio back in 1971 through 1973 when I was still a young coin collector attending College and did not fully comprehend how amazing her coin collection was.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Upgrades for the BigMo Civil War Auction Sale #2 – Part3

    Today, we will put a bow on the BigMo Gold Civil War sale. To cover only five years, what a great little collection this set represents. Legend’s Regency 42 Auction hosted the Big Mo Gold Civil War Issues Part 2. I have covered most all the significant purchases, but have I really? I think this will be the first time that I have ever dedicated a post to duplicates. If we are going to do it, I cannot think of a better grouping than these four civil war coins that Mr. Hansen purchased in the recent Legend sale. The typical way a collector would populate their duplicate or #2 set would be to add duplicates when upgrading the top set. Makes sense right? Well, that is one way, but not the only way. Over the last few months, I have seen where Mr. Hansen has purchased coins specifically for the #2 sets. I have not really reported on it before, but I can recall seeing duplicates purchased from The McCoy Family Collection of Capped Head Half Eagles in an 8/2020 Heritage Sale. This has been taking placed all year. I have concluded that Mr. Hansen is very serious about building a #2 set as complete as possible. If that is true, then the only way to populate the set when there are great coins in the top set would be to purchased duplicates for the second set. This has not been anything that Mr. Hansen or John Brush has spoken about that I can recall. Maybe they will in the future.

    So, today we will look at the duplicates that were purchased from the BigMo Collection and you can draw some conclusions yourself.

    Lot # 5 - $10 1861-S PCGS AU58 CAC Approved, realized $29,375. This coin is described by Legend: PCGS has graded just a single AU58+ finer, a coin that sold in April 2018 for $45,500. The last PCGS AU58 to sell was the Warren Miller coin, way back in 1995. The current PCGS Price Guide value is listed at $35,000. A very RARE and important opportunity for anyone working on an advanced $10 gold piece collection, or cabinet of Civil War coins. The sole AU58+ CAC Approved specimen is correctly owned by the D.L. Hansen Collection. According to Legend Auction, the BigMo coin is the only AU58 of the five certified by PCGS that is CAC Approved. A really great coin for the #2 set.

    Lot # 20 - $20 1863-S PCGS MS62+ CAC Approved, realized $22,912.50. This coin is described by Legend: There are 2 in MS62+ at PCGS and just eight graded higher. No MS62+ graded by PCGS or NGC has ever sold in auction. The most recent MS62 sold for $21,000 in June 2020 and NO PCGS MS63 has sold in nearly a decade! The current PCGS Price Guide value is $24,000. We anticipate very strong bidding to bring this prize home! This coin does not have the POP status as the 1861-S Eagle. D.L. Hansen Collection currently owns one of the two MS64 POP 2/0 specimens as its top coin.

    Lot # 31 - $20 1865-S PCGS MS64 CAC Approved, realized $28,200. This coin is described by Legend: Do not let the Pops fool you, this coin is the ONLY CAC approved example to sell in auction, realizing $31,725 in the 2016 ANA auction. The current CAC CPG value is listed at $26,600 and the current PCGS Price Guide value is listed at $24,000. Rare finer, this is a superb example for any collector. Good luck. The current Hansen top coin is also MS64. With this purchase he now has two $20 1865-S PCGS MS64 specimens. The new coin is CAC Approved where his existing one was not. We could see a swap at some point. Presently, the new BigMo coin was placed in the #2 set.

    Lot # 14 - $2.50 1863 PCGS PR65+ DCAM CAC Approved. This is the coin that peak my interest enough to post this duplicate feature. This coin is described by Legend: PCGS has graded 2 in PR65+ DCAM and two graded finer, one reported in PR66 DCAM and one in PR66+ DCAM. The BigMo collector bought this coin privately for $225,000 from David Hall. The current Collectors Universe value is $245,000. One of the classic gold rarities, the 1863 quarter eagle is ranked among the 100 Greatest Coins by Garrett and Guth; it is not hard to see why! Missing from many a great cabinet and worthy of a fantastic collection, and a strong bid! Good luck! Let’s look at this coin in a little more detail.

    1863 Quarter Eagle, PR65+ DCAM, CAC Approved

    David Akers wrote: No quarter eagles were minted for general circulation at the Philadelphia Mint in 1863. However, 30 proofs were struck and so this is one of the rarest and most desirable of all Liberty Head quarter eagles. Actually, in proof, the 1863 has appeared at auction more often than any other quarter eagle of the 1860's. However, other dates are available in other conditions, and therefore, this date has attained a much higher price level than other proofs of this decade. Of the 30 proofs originally minted, I would estimate that no more than 10 to 12 remain in unimpaired state. This purchase gives the D.L. Hansen Collection the second specimen of this rare coin.

    Our friend Ron Guth added comments: The 1863 Quarter Eagle is extremely popular with collectors because it is a Proof-only issue and, thus, the only option available to anyone seeking a Quarter Eagle of this date from the Philadelphia Mint. With a mintage of only 30 examples, this date creates excitement whenever it appears on the market. Probably half of the original mintage survives. I know of thirteen demonstrably different examples, including two circulated examples and two in the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution. Most examples are cameos, though there are several that were certified before PCGS recognized the Cameo designation and which would receive either a CAM or a DCAM designation upon re-examination. The finest 1863 Quarter Eagle is a PCGS PR66DCAM which sold for a record price of $195,500 in 2012. It currently reposes in the Simpson Collection.

    Presently, The D.L. Hansen Collection has the sole finest certified by PCGS, 1863 $2.50, DCAM PR66+ DCAM Certification #34485019. I do not think this is the Simpson PR66DCAM mentioned by Ron Guth. I believed the Simpson coin to be the second finest by PCGS. The BigMo coin that Mr. Hansen purchased is tied with one other PR65+ DCAM specimen for number three spot in the PCGS condition census report. Legend Auction described the coin as: A magnificent GEM example of this incredibly RARE Proof Only date. One of the RAREST dates in the extensive Liberty Head quarter eagle series. Demand for the denomination was nonexistent and the mint only produced 30 Proofs for collectors, all delivered on March 23. Today, these are listed in John Dannreuther's magnum opus on U.S. Gold Proof coins as JD-1, considered to be Rarity-6, with 18-22 pieces extant, and he positively enumerates 20 distinct examples, the present coin is listed as #2 on his listing of Significant Examples. Of the ones enumerated, three are impounded in museum collections, including two in the Smithsonian and one at the ANS. Of those that are available for private ownership, a number are impaired. Of the survivors, this piece is one of the VERY FINEST KNOWN and is a real trophy coin for the advanced U.S. gold coin collector. The BigMo coin that Mr. Hansen purchased is tied with one other PR65+ DCAM specimen for number three in the condition census report with Simpson and Hansen #1 coin grading higher. If the BigMo coin is #2, I wonder which of two top PCGS coins is below the BIgMo coin on John Dannreuther's list in his magnum opus.

    This is truly a magnificent coin as described by Legend: Boasting essentially perfect surfaces, the GEM quality fields and devices are totally devoid of any marks, hairlines, lint marks, or distractions of any kind that would mar the outstanding eye appeal. The mirrors are deeply and boldly reflective with a strong brilliance. An amazing rich orange color radiates all over, with a thick frost on the devices, imparting a dramatic contrast between the devices and the fields. A strong glass brings out the wonderful original orange peel texture in the fields. The eye appeal is truly magnificent!

    The D.L. Hansen has two of these rare coins. It is pretty obviously to me with this purchase; Mr. Hansen overall goal will be to have two very nice Civil War sets in the Collection. He did not let this coin slip away as can be confirm with his aggressive bidding. He was more than willing to pay a premium for a coin that he really did not need to improve his collection. Let’s watch a see what happens in the future with the #2 D.L. Hansen set.

    Provenance: BigMo purchased from David Hall; BigMo Civil War Collection - The Regency Auction 42 (Legend 12/2020) lot 14, realized $270,250; D.L. Hansen Collection

    1863 Quarter Eagle, PR65+ DCAM, (Hansen #2 Specimen)
    PCGS POP 2/2, CAC Approved, Tied for 3rd Finest certified by PCGS
    Certification #82452561, PCGS #97889
    PCGS Value Guide: $245,000 / realized $270,250
    Ex: David Hall – BigMo


    .
    .
    .
    Provenance: Unknown. I appear to me the coin was purchased by Hansen about 2-3 years ago in a private transaction. The only hint that I have was from @earlyAurum (June 21, 2018): I think he also has an $2.5 1863 in PR66+ CAC which is unbelievably gorgeous. It was for sale on DLRC a few months back.

    1863 Quarter Eagle, PR66+ DCAM (Hansen #1 Specimen)
    PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved, Finest certified b y PCGS
    PCGS Coin #97889/ PCGS Serial #34485019
    PCGS Value Guide: Unknown / realized unknown


    .
    .
    Note: I included both the Hansen Specimens for your view and enjoyment

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see some of his complete sets have been retired.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dbldie55 said:
    I see some of his complete sets have been retired.

    Any speculation as to why he would do this?

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Very nice commentary. I do not agree with DLH not buying more of the coins.
    This is not because they were mine. Another 20k-40k or so is nothing in the context of building his total collection. Yes it adds up but DLH should have purchased the coins to complete his CAC set. CAC coins should get one point or at least the same as a plus. They are simply better coins
    and strictly graded. He will now have to add lower grades to complete the CAC set.
    PR Seated are somewhat out of favor but they are special and he should have bought the 5-6 he was out bid on. Just my opinion.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    New Orleans Quarter Dollar Update

    This coin is an Eliasberg jewel. We don’t know how many Eliasberg coins are in the Hansen Collection. It will take some work to determine. We see for some updates for the new Hansen coins, notes for the pedigree are added in the comment field. I would say that is not the normal. In most cases, no comments are provided. This remarkable coin is one of those that have a lot to be comment about. So, let’s tell the story on this coin the best we can. Our expect Ron Guth: The 1853-O Quarter Dollar is far less common than the 1853 Arrows and Rays, but it is not a rare coin in circulated grades. In Mint State, it is quite scarce, with only a small handful of pieces in the MS62 to MS64 grade range (at PCGS). The auction record for this date is the NGC MS66 that sold way back in 2002 for $34,500. This NGC MS66 mentioned, is the Eliasberg /Hansen Specimen. It is a little amazing the record was set almost 20 years ago in a Superior Galleries Auction. The coin has appeared in auction once since.

    The coin was a perfect fit in the Hansen 1853 New Orleans Collection of US Coins. This improves the nine piece collection to three sole finest by PCGS, POP 1/0. One other is tied for finest. The small group does have a couple candidates for upgrading.

    1853-O, Arrows and Rays, Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar, MS65, Ex: Eliasberg

    The coin is believed to be traced to the Dixie Land Collection. This is an interesting early collection by a collector that I think remains anonymous to this day. The collection is said to be a Collection of United States Coins that is One of the Finest Aggregations of the Coins of America Ever Offered: Consisting of Nearly Every Rarity in Gold, Silver and Copper, in a Condition Which Must Be Seen to Be Appreciated; The Work of a Life Time; The Choicest Specimens From the Great Auction Sales of the Past. There is an online catalog available. After a quick scan, I believe in is safe to say the collection was missing most of the ultra- rarities, i.e., the 1804 Dollar, 1894-S Dime, the 1884 & 1885 Trade Dollar, etc. The meat of the collection was in worn condition, otherwise very nice. The collection at first glance appears to be complete or close to it. The catalog has a few plate images, but not many. The auction date was 11/14/1906.

    The coin was in the John H. Clapp Collection when his collection was sold intact in 1942 to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. The Eliasberg Collection stayed intact until the Bowers & Merena Auction in 1997. In Eliasberg sale, the coin realized $25,300. After a few years, the coin turned up in the “1853 Collection”.

    The “1853 Collection” was highlighted in the 2014 Stack’s Bowers Winter Baltimore sale. The sale was featured in a Coin World article. The article: The Rarities Night sale is one of numerous Stack’s Bowers auction sessions taking place during and immediately after the expo at the Baltimore Convention Center, Oct. 30 to Nov. 2. The piece is part of an extensive group of 1853 coins consigned to the sale from an anonymous collector described by the auctioneer as “a consummate collector, a gentleman with diverse interests, and a true student of numismatics.” He took it upon himself as a personal challenge “to build his set within the narrowest possible span of dates,” eventually settling on 1853 as it offered an “interesting inclusion of nearly all circulating American denominations, save for the two-cent piece, 20-cent piece and three-dollar gold.” One of the highlights of the sale was an 1853-O Seated Liberty, Without Arrows and Rays half dollar. This coin is just one of four. This coin is a G6 Grade, and is not the finest known. The finest known is the Hansen Collection, VF35, Ex: Garrett. There was no mention in the article of the finest known quarter dollar.

    The coin is described in the StacksBowers sale as: Bold satiny texture and suggestions of prooflike character give this piece striking visual appeal. It is highly lustrous on both sides. Light silver gray dominates the obverse, with soft golden brown, olive and steel mottling. The reverse exhibits nearly brilliant silver in some of the recesses, while other areas show rich olive and golden brown mottling. All central details are nicely struck with just a trace of softness on a few of the reverse denticles. Very original, very beautiful, and extremely rare in high grade. At the time we last sold this coin as part of the Eliasberg Collection in 1997, it was considered hands down the finest known and it was the only Gem graded. Now, there is one record at MS-65, just below this one, but it remains the only one graded at this level by NGC or PCGS. Taking into consideration the fine provenance back to 1906, it is clear this piece has no equal among survivors from the mintage of well over 1.3 million coins. Most survivors tend to be in low grades. As coin collecting was not popular at the time around New Orleans, coins released there tended to be circulated and not saved by collectors. Furthermore, at the time collectors usually sought only the different dates, and not mintmarked coins, so the vast mintages from Philadelphia were more likely to end up in collectors' hands. In the present case, more than ten times the number of quarters struck in New Orleans were produced at the Philadelphia Mint in 1853. An exceptional coin for the finest of cabinets.

    Since the 2014 Stack’s Bowers sale of “1853 Collection”, the coin whereabouts is in a cloud of mystery. At some point, the coin was crossed from the MS66 NGC to a MS65 PCGS. Even with this bump down, the coin is still the finest known and tops the PCGS POP report. The coin appears to have been purchased from Rare Coin Wholesalers at some point in November, 2020. There is not much more information available. PCGS values the coin at $50,000. I do not believe the coin has a CAC Approval sticker.

    Provenance: Dixie Land Collection; John H. Clapp Collection, sold intact in 1942 to Louis E. Eliasberg; Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection, (Bowers & Merena 4/1997), Lot #1455, realized $25,300; (Superior 8/2002) Lot #871, realized $34,500; 1853 Collection, (Stack's/Bowers 10/2014), Lot #10025, realized $28,200; Rare Coin Wholesalers sold to D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1853-O, Arrows and Rays, Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar
    PCGS POP 1/0, The Finest Known
    Certification #40253871, PCGS #5428
    PCGS Price Guide Value: $50,000 / Unknown
    Ex: Eliasberg

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • cccoinscccoins Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2020 8:54PM

    Merry Christmas! Thanks for all of the great information @Currin.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be interesting for you to reflect on your experience cataloguing the collection this last year. What personal insights did you gain, did you learn something about yourself, have this changed how you look at collecting, etc.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 173 ✭✭✭

    There will certainly be a box of
    Monsters Mr Hansen acquires
    in 2021.
    IMO the most valuable asset he can acquire would be the Finest known
    Brasher Dubloon.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedCopper said:
    There will certainly be a box of
    Monsters Mr Hansen acquires
    in 2021.
    IMO the most valuable asset he can acquire would be the Finest known
    Brasher Dubloon.

    Do you think it would fit into his existing collection? Or expand the focus of the collection?

  • RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 173 ✭✭✭

    Both

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021 4:27PM

    One thing I will say, is that Dell Loy has liked to pick up things at a good price and it's been possible to do for high end pieces in the Covid era, so the Stickney-Garett Brasher may be an opportunity for him if he chooses the branch out into private and colonial issues.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021 10:38PM

    He still needs 3 proof saints.
    There are a couple 1911 coins & a 1913 for sale now, they look very nice.
    Hint-hint...No pressure :)

    Also...Somebody is sneaking up on his date set.
    (Not me)

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    He still needs 3 proof saints.
    There are a couple 1911 coins & a 1913 for sale now, they look very nice.

    .

    I saw 1913 offered at US Coins. It may have been sold. I do not see any available on Collectors.com at this time. This is the website Mr. Hansen looks for coins. We can let John Brush know if they are still available.

    Also...Somebody is sneaking up on his date set.

    .

    Great Observation. I did not see that. It looks like the Legend clan has started a collection of Eagles and Saints by date. Just FYI, Mr.Hansen has zero focus on date and type sets. These sets are a by-product of his complete, one of everything focus. If they are 100% complete, I don’t typically pay much attention to them either.

    Just a tidbit on the Saints.

    He created the registry set late 2016, with the set 100% completed. He upgraded 12 Saints the last three months in 2016. As you can see a big focus. The past four years, he has focus on the Saint set as follows:

    2017, upgrade 9 coins
    2018, upgrade 2 coins
    2019, upgrade 11 coins
    2020, upgrade 8 coins

    His natural rate of upgrading the 51 piece set is about 7-8 per year. If coins are available in 2021, I would expect this tread to continue. So, I would expect the date set to improve over time by the natural upgrading habits of the Hansen Team. In the mean time, if the Legend set takes the lead in the date set, I would chalk it up as great for the hobby. At the end of the day, the Hansen Collection is playing the long game by building the greatest complete collection of sets as possible, understandable that every set will not be #1. Just being in the all-time Top 5 is a great accomplishment for anyone, including Mr. Hansen, but he is strives for the highest possible.

    Jos, you have a great set of Saints. I hope you work hard and complete the 23 dates. PCGS wrote: However, don't get on this ride if you're pregnant, have back problems, or a bad heart -- the 1921 and the dates from 1929-1932 will test the mettle of any collector. Nevertheless, if you're up to the challenge, the rewards will be great.. They are still needed in your set. Save up your pennies, and go for it!

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • BestGermanBestGerman Posts: 75 ✭✭✭

    Hi Currin, here's what I show for the pedigree on the 1908 $5 39100313:
    Heritage 11/2013:3869 (as PCGS PR66 25384006), $55,813.00 - HFW² Collection - Heritage 1/2020:4439 (as PCGS PR66 25348980), $52,800.00 - D.L. Hansen Collection (as PCGS PR66 39100313)

    Ron Guth, Chief Investigator
    The Numismatic Detective Agency

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Liberty Head Eagle Upgrade

    My last update was for the Half Eagle Set. Today’s is for the Eagle Set. As with the Liberty Head Half Eagles, the D.L. Hansen Collection has the PCGS registry #1 - Liberty Head $10 Gold Basic Circulation Strikes (1839-1908) Set. The set is 100% complete and features the 1839/8, Type of 1838, MS66 PCGS from the Gold Rush Collection. This near million dollar masterpiece has a 178 piece supporting cast including a least a half dozen other six figure coins. This is an extremely great set of Liberty Head Eagles while being the number one spot in the PCGS registry, but I would have to agree to the fact at this point in time, the Hansen set may not be the finest currently assembled. To my knowledge, the Hansen and Tyrant Sets have not been evaluated side-by-side. At this time, I would give a slight edge to the Tyrant Collection.

    The 179 piece set is described as: This long, long series stretches from the time when Abe Lincoln was less than 30 years old to the years when Teddy Roosevelt was in power. The set is filled with rarities, but there are no so-called "impossible" coins as are seen in many other series. The classic rarity is the famed 1875. This set involves three distinct types: the No Motto Covered Ear, the No Motto and the With Motto. A complete date set in any condition is a major numismatic accomplishment. Mr. Hansen has a PCGS Condition Census famed 1875 Eagle that is second only to his PCGS POP 1/0 1839/8 Specimen.

    You can see with the eagles as with the half eagles, The D.L. Hansen Collection holds first and fifth place spots on the PCGS all-time list. The other collections are ranked a little differently. Besides Mr. Hansen, the only other collector that made the top five for both half eagles and eagles was the Harry W. Bass. For eagle sets, the other top shelf collections were Bob Simpson and Ellen D. Collection (David Hall). With Louis Eliasberg dropping to number six, National Numismatic Collection could only muster eighth spot Liberty Head Eagles.

    The Hansen set will still have work to do before it can reach grade point average of 60.0. The set currently is setting at 59.12. The Hansen Liberty Head Eagle Collection has 13 PCGS POP1/0 Specimens, sole finest certified by PCGS. Another 31 coins are tied for PCGS finest. There are 134 (slightly less than 75%) of the set is PCGS Certified Condition Census Top Five. The quality of Mr. Hansen Liberty Head Half Eagle and Eagle sets are very comparable. The big difference is there are more PCGS POP 1/0 Specimens in the Half Eagle Set.

    1879-O Eagle PCGS MS60

    The new coin replaces an 1879-O AU58 Certification #81875414, POP 7/2. Doug Winter describes the coin as: The 1879-O has the second lowest mintage figure of any New Orleans eagle and the second lowest mintage figure for any gold coin struck at this mint. It is the third rarest New Orleans eagle in terms of overall rarity, trailing the 1883-O and the 1859-O. There was just a single example of this date in the Bass collection and many of the great gold sales of the past either lacked an 1879-O eagle or were represented by an off-quality piece. The 1879-O is the third rarest New Orleans eagle. Only four to five dozen are known from an original mintage figure of 1,500. About eighty percent of the survivors grade VF to EF and are characterized by densely abraded surfaces. A properly graded AU50 to AU53 is rare and an AU55 to AU58 is very rare. In Uncirculated, the 1879-O eagle is unique. In the TPG world of today, the coin is no longer unique. In PCGS Population Reports, there are a MS60 and MS61. In the NGC report, there are a MS60 and a pair of MS61. It must be stated when looking at these reports; there are resubmissions and crossovers that could inflate the numbers. It is generally considered that the NGC MS61 in the Tyrant Collection is the top specimen. The Ex: Morgan Collection of Branch Mint Gold is described in a Tyrant account as: A review of the photographs of the top known examples will confirm how head and shoulders the present coin (Tyrant) is in terms of quality and appeal, over any other known example. Simply stunning! The finest certified by PCGS is the Auction Record coin that appeared in Heritage Auction on 6/2014, lot 4868, realizing $88,125. On face value, this would place the Hansen Specimen somewhere in the top five and maybe as high as number three on the 1879-O eagle roster.

    The Hansen coin made its first appearance in a Stacks Bowers March 2017 Auction in an AU-58 PCGS holder with an old certification number 06584131, which is still active. In this sale, SBG states PCGS Population: 7; one finer. The appearance of the coin is described as: Handsome prooflike fields and frosty devices greet the viewer of this delightful near-Mint State example. The surfaces are primarily orange-gold with lighter yellow towards the peripheries, intermingled with pale blue highlights. The original mintage of 1,500 pieces was greatly reduced by time and attrition to perhaps 75 to 100 known today. This is one of the best to survive and is tied with six others at PCGS behind a single coin that has earned the grade of MS-61. One of the classic key dates to this challenging series and an important New Orleans Mint eagle. The coin realized $51,700.

    At some point, the coin was upgrade to MS60 POP 1/1 with a new certification number 34631147. Question to the community, is there a chart that matches certification numbers with the year? Moving on, the coin was recently purchased from New York Gold Mint in a private transaction. We don’t know the negotiate price, but we do know PCGS Price Guide values a coin in this grade at $80,000. I am not fond of MS60 coins, but coins of this rarity in higher grades place limits on what choices are available. I took a peek in the Hansen #2 set, and he has an AU58, CAC Approved Specimen. I wonder if that coin could be the best of the three. The top three 1879-O Eagles currently listed in the Hansen sets are:

    PCGS #1 Basic + MV Set – MS60, Certification #34631147
    PCGS #1 Basic Set - AU58, Certification #81875414
    PCGS #2 Basic Set - AU58, CAC Approved, Certification #05928644

    There could be lower graded specimens, but these three are the only ones that I could find listed in the Hansen sets. A couple days ago, I showed you the Liberty Head Half Eagle set. Today, you saw the Eagle set. The two sets require 380 coins. Also, you saw the Hansen #2 sets were All-Time Top Five in both series. Then you saw at least one coin was not two coins deep but three. I am careful not to speculate on just how many Liberty Head Eagles and Half Eagles in this private inventory. If I did, I would start with a number of 500 and go up from there. Amazing!

    Provenance: Rarities Night, (Stacks Bowers 3/2017), Lot 3119, (as PCGS AU58 PCGS 06584131), realized $51,700; Purchased in Private Transaction (New York Gold Mark, 1/2021).

    1879-O Eagle PCGS MS60
    PCGS POP 1/1
    Certification #34631147, PCGS #8685
    PCGS Value Guide: $80,000 / unknown

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just wow!

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021 4:40PM

    I really do not see why that coin is not in a 66 or 67 holder........ Great candidate for a regrade.

    Except the upgrade % fee could be significant money. I am sure PCGS would love to upgrade that coin.

    OINK

  • UltraHighReliefUltraHighRelief Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's killer!

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With having duplicate sets, Hansen acts as a vacuum cleaner on the high end market. This makes me wonder if it has a depressing effect on fellow whales.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file