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Just Wow. May whatever higher power they have, have mercy on their souls.
BALROG
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in Sports Talk
Just watched the Peen State / Paterno / Sandusky movie with Al Pacino.
I pity all from Penn State and hope ALL ever supporting Paterno after the first news broke to get what they have coming to them. If not already. Penn state should have been shuttered.
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Yay I heard it was brutal on PSU. I don’t think I can watch it
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Paterno was my last sports hero standing. Real piece of dirt. Lesson is you know little or nothing of who these promoted icons really are.
Much easier to be a cynic than a fan.
I am a Penn State alum, and damn proud of it. Joe Paterno was a great football coach and I'm damn proud of that as well.
Anyone who watches a Hollywood movie such as this and believes it is factual, is truly gullible and will believe almost anything. All Hollywood movies, even those based on true stories, always contain fiction, often a lot of it, based on the agenda of the producer and director...and that is a fact.
I have no intention of watching this Hollywood movie because i already know what happened. The story has been investigated and publicized again and again and again.
The important things are that the kids got money and counseling for what happened to them, the filthy vermin pervert Jerry Sandusky will be in prison for the rest of his life, and that Penn State University has fully recovered from this sickening incident and is better than ever.
The football legacy of Joe Paterno will stand forever, who in my opinion is the greatest college football coach of all time.
Just a sordid repulsive affair for all those involved, including Paterno. Great football coach, no question, but his inaction as the guy in control has irrevocably tarnished his legacy and rightfully so.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I understand your desire to preserve Paterno's legacy. At the least, had he come forward at the time that he had knowledge of Sandusky's crimes, his career would have been over...kaput. He kept his mouth shut and continued collecting his paycheck and adulation as the nations most beloved coach. Many kids suffered because of that inaction and no excuse can be made for that.
I don't disagree with your basic premise.
In summation, something some may not know, both Paterno and Sandusky were lodge brothers, i can't remember what lodge it was. But in my view, i think that Paterno couldn't believe the early allegations against his lodge brother and football friend. I think that's understandable.
When the evidence become clear, Paterno did alert Penn State officials who obviously did not take sufficient action. If I recall correctly, Sandusky was no longer a football coach at that time.
To this day, i still say that it was the Penn State officials who Paterno notified, who were directly at fault in not stopping this. The local police also investigated Sandusky, so perhaps they could be accused of inadequate police work. When following the story from it's beginning to end, Paterno just got caught in a vortex, and Paterno even admitted shortly before he died that in hindsight, he should have done something sooner. But ratting out your lodge brother and friend when the evidence seems convoluted is a very hard thing to do, if not impossible.
Don't forget things have changed in this country and thankfully for the better. Chris Rock does a comedic bit, whether it's true or not who knows, but his bit is about his uncle molesting him, he told his mother about it, and in Rock's words, he said Mom told him somewhat angrily like it's no big deal, to just "Walk it off"...as if Rock had cried about stubbing his toe or something. Perhaps Paterno had a similar "older generation" mind frame such as Rock's mother, we shall never know for sure.
Speaking of Hollywood, we all know the story about Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, and others, who frankly virtually everyone in Hollywood it seems, knew what was going on there, and they didn't say anything. And purportedly there may have been underage girls who were victims.
For those who lay this blame on Paterno with scathing remarks, they had also better speak out about their Hollywood heroes, or be considered an extreme hypocrite. (I'm referring to the OP)
This.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Someone once told me...
"Never meet your heroes if you want them to stay your heroes."
Now I have heard of good experiences but for the most part, the more you 'worship' someone, the harder their humanity is to accept.
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That is an excellent point.
I doubt if Joe Paterno ever thought of himself as a hero. However, he did many wonderful things for Penn State and the community at large. Paterno probably could have run for governor of Pennsylvania, and won quite easily.
I've been to Paterno's home with a group of other people when i was a student there, and met him and his wife. His house is like something a young couple with very little money would buy, and the furnishings looked worse than that. Quite amazing for someone with his fame and money. No ostentatious or phony behavior whatsoever about the man.
Paterno lived an exemplary life, and this should not be forgotten. I admire Paterno, not as any hero, but as a great football coach and pillar of society.
Again, i won't watch the movie, but out of curiosity, i did watch the movie trailer on YouTube, and just from that I could see the spins and false narrative about the whole situation. For example the conversations between Paterno and his family in the movie - it's quite obvious that was just made up. The director, Barry Levinson, did the same thing with the movie Donnie Brasco. Yes, the basic outline of the true story of Joe Pestone is correct, but the movie story details are full of embellishments and fiction, some events that outright did not happen, and not including certain key events that did.
I'm glad that you "get" the Hollywood aspect thing. However some out there may not get that.
Anyone who wishes to criticize Paterno such as the way Coinstartled did, I don't think any Penn State alum or student has a problem with that. There may be a different viewpoint on this, but we understand the viewpoint.
However when you say that "Penn state should have been shuttered." What, because of one stinking criminal pervert, and the events surrounding it encompassing a few people...shutter an entire great university for that? Then you are just acting silly.
I'm on the fence about Paterno because I don't know all the facts. None of us do. But it is a shame that the college itself got such a black eye.
stevek, if you had a son who was treated like a play toy by Sandusky, i contend that your obsequious flattery of Paterno in this thread would be greatly altered. you said it yourself -- he was larger than life and could have been governor. yet amazingly when it came time to do the right thing and wield even a single ounce of his infinite power, next to absolutely nothing was done and countless children were irreparably damaged as a result. that's reprehensible to the nth power and i don't give three sh*ts what he accomplished on the gridiron or anything else done off of it.
you wanna be a true "pillar of society"? slam on the brakes of the money train you're engineering to save lives that are laying on the track.
edit: and if you dare play the "he didn't know" or "he didn't know the extent of it" card, i've got some oceanfront property in new mexico i'd like to talk to you about
I think it's easier to pass judgement the further you are removed from the situation. These 'monsters' often appear completely normal to 95% of people they come into contact with; they can be friends and relatives, people with implied authority over the victim, people YOU trust to care for your child.
I just think you have to try to imagine it's real - you just found out someone you've been very close with for the better part of your life is this type of animal - what do you do? Many of these monsters are former victims themselves; breaking the cycle is not easy.
We'd all like to think we'd be whistleblowers. And yet the victims seem to greatly outnumber the whistles being heard. I believe Mr. Paterno was Catholic (like me) an the church didn't exactly provide a great moral compass in this area, either. There was a priest in my parish growing up who always tried to recruit me to the Teen Club; always gave me a bad vibe that I couldn't explain and I even fought with my parents about not ever going (the group did good things in the community; a help for college resumes, job applications etc). Found out while I was in college he was a creeper. My dad's only words on the topic were, 'Good thing you trusted you instinct.'
No one knew; he seemed like a nice guy...
...sicko.
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I've already stated, i thought clearly, that I understand this sort of viewpoint.
I expressed my viewpoint which i believe is correct. You strongly disagree and that's fine - I've got no problem with that.
Penn State got punished severely, and Joe Paterno got punished severely. However if you or others wish to pile on, then that's your prerogative. Penn State and perhaps every other university and coach in the US have learned from this incident.
I think most in our society can tolerate any legal activity between adults...however exploitation of the underaged, especially child molestation, is totally unacceptable...and Jerry Sandusky got the severe punishment he deserved.
That is an excellent analogy.
There are some videos on YouTube of Sandusky being interviewed about this, and like most criminals, he's got a "story" that denies any illegal behavior, and "explains" what he was doing.
Joe Paterno was and still is a legacy as a great Football Coach, but in the "big picture" he failed when it most counted and rendered himself as a monster in the lives of many young men who are probably scarred for life. in that regard he is equal to Jerry Sandusky in terms of Culpability and Guilt. it is a tragedy.
I would caution Penn State alumni that if you consider the Seven Deadly Sins of Humanity, Pride leads the parade. it is nice that the Football program recovered so quickly. if the whole sordid chapter of their athletic program and brushed under the rug, well......................
BTW, what's the name of the movie??
You should be a proud alum. It's a great school. I have several relatives that went there. Smart people. Great careers.
I also agree that it's a movie and thus likely has a lot of fiction in it.
I also agree he was a great coach. Not the greatest but great for sure.
However, at a minimum I would be horribly embarrassed by my school and my coach were I an alum. To act like everything is peachy with Paterno and Penn State is walking with pretty heavy blinders on in my opinion.
No Penn State alum or student who I know thought the incident was "peachy." And as horrendous as it was to everyone at Penn State, that doesn't even compare with what it must have been like for the kids who Sandusky molested.
For me, i'm over it, Penn State is back and Penn State football is back, and I am very pleased about that. Unfortunately and sadly for the kids, even with the money and counseling they received, i doubt if most of them will ever totally get over it. Hopefully they can find some comfort in the fact that Penn State as well as many other schools, have adopted new policies to ensure that incidents such as this are kept to a minimum or never happen again, so that the pain and suffering they endured and likely still endure from horrible nightmares and such, was not in vain.
I still condemn McQueary for not doing what any normal human being would have done and intervened when he actually witnessed that horrific scene in the shower area. The man is forever a coward and a complete dirtbag in my opinion. In certain situations you have a duty to act and this guy failed miserably.
As is Paterno , if he supposedly told someone and they didnt act then he needed to ban Sandusky from ever going near the locker room but that didnt happen,. He pretended it never happened and never did a thing .
Penn state fans are worse than Paterno though , he was paid to coach and stood to lose a lot if he blew up the program. What excuse do the fans have for putting the record of a stupid football team over the kids that were molested?
Players maybe have an actual stake in the football teams record but any village idiot can be a fan of some team . Being a fan usually just means you suck at something too much to ever play it for real.
Honestly as much as I hate Paterno and his whole crew for that scandal I absolutely believe it should have absolutely nothing to do with his coaching records. Put it this way I love Tom Brady - the Patriots QB, I don’t love Tom Brady the person - because I don’t know the guy nor do I care to know him. I keep the sport separated from the real world person.
If Joe Pa knew and it sure looks like he did then:
He’s still a great coach
He’s a HORRIBLE human being
The later is infinitely more important
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< but any village idiot can be a fan of some team . Being a fan usually just means you suck at something too much to ever play it for real. >>>
I agree with ya...and so I just canceled my fan club membership with the Dallas Cowboys, New York Mets, and Los Angeles Lakers, and asked for a partial refund on the unused portion of my membership fee for the year.
My only decision now is what the yell do i do with the original hand painted, 4 feet x 4 feet portrait of Jerry Jones that I have hanging on my living room wall? It may be a bit chilly tonight so i guess using it to provide some heat in my fireplace would work well.
The Cowboys and Lakers won't miss you. However, the mets can't handle losing half their members!
(Go Yanks)
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Accountability. Corrupt Basketball program in my town has the top assistant facing 60 years in the hoosegow while the head coach that hired him claims innocence. Doesn't matter, you are responsible for your hires. The buck used to stop at the top, now it gets shuffled off to the legal team.
As noted before, I was a huge Paterno fan and with that, a Penn State fan. I would have hit the entire athletics program with a 5 year suspension. Not so much that it is just or fair, but to give the school the opportunity to reflect and concentrate on what they are there for...academics.
Before I get eleven disagrees from larking, I would do the same with the University ten miles down the road from me as athletics have gone 100% off the rails.
anyone who accepts that Paterno didn't know what was going is pretty naïve. at the end of a distinguished career where he helped thousands of young men he placed more value on his loyalty to his Legacy and a friend. to my way of thinking it should call into question the legitimacy of that Legacy.
I am curious (genuinely) as to what else people think Joe Paterno was supposed to do? He reported it to the proper authorities and forced him to resign.
Was a football coach supposed to also act as school president, police commissioner, district attorney and judge?
I have no dog in the fight, either. Just curious what could have been done.
Seems all the vitriol is reserved for Paterno yet the real cover up seemed to come from the Administration, who also understood and seemed mostly concerned with the financial ramifications of such a scandal.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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Paterno stated (paraphrase) that he should have done more...shortly before he died.
BTW: Sandusky was married for many years, had 6 children which were adopted, and was also seemingly a pillar of society in a number of ways. So of course he didn't fit the mold of a child molester in Paterno's mind, and frankly, many other minds as well, including all the parents who sent their kids to be with Sandusky, perhaps the police as well who investigated him.
I'm no expert in criminal psychology, but I would presume that it is very rare for a child molester to be married and have children. It's probably rare for a child molester to be married, but I've heard of that happening. I think most of them are like that POS that went to prison who used to do the Subway sandwich commercials...I don't think he was married.
There are many in society who enjoy working with kids, a long list... teachers, day care centers, boy and girl scout leaders, and on and on. Plus, Sandusky was a clever guy who could fool anyone with his stories about why he liked being with kids. So adding all this up, why should Paterno think that Sandusky was a child molester?
It's not "naive" to think that Paterno didn't know what was going on, it's logical based on the facts surrounding the situation. Yes, it turned out quite badly, we all know that. New policies have been put into place in many colleges, if not possibly all colleges in regards to what happened. Why weren't these policies already in place many years ago?
Paterno made a mistake, he basically admitted that, and he paid for it losing his job, and his reputation with the public. In any event, it was Sandusky who molested those kids, not Joe Paterno...don't forget that.
Paterno failed in the only test of character that mattered. He repeatedly failed to protect innocent children from someone he knew was a pedophile. He was told repeatedly, as early as 1976, and turned a blind eye to it in order to protect his football program and legacy.
1951WheatiesPremium you asked what do you do? It is not hard at all, you turn them in to the police. He was told his "lodge brother" was raping children. Passing the buck to the PSU administrators he told is pathetic. If this had anything to do with a PSU football player Paterno would have followed up repeatedly. But his friend raping children? He wanted it to disappear and so it disappeared.
For all the Paterno defenders your beloved coach lied repeatedly about not knowing about the 1998 case against Sandusky. Tim Curley admitted under oath that Paterno asked about the status of the case. Since he lied about the 1998 case, there are emails documenting Paterno's interest in the case, it gives even more credibility to all the other earlier accusations.
Robb
stevek, you really should stop defending Paterno...................period.
you should be embarrassed (genuinely) by this query, but i'm sure you're not
If I thought Paterno was guilty of what I consider to be many false allegations, then I wouldn't defend that guilt.
I look at the facts and the entire scenario, which I've posted here, and have formed my viewpoint.
Paterno stated (paraphrase) that he should have done more...shortly before he died.
by logical extension, he could only "have done more" if he knew something was going on and failed act. everything I have heard/read from reporting on this as it was coming to light is that, yes, he was aware of Sandusky's actions and failed to act.
spin it however you choose to defend him.
"Penn State fans gave Joe Paterno a standing ovation during special tribute"
https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/penn-state-fans-gave-joe-paterno-a-standing-ovation-during-special-tribute-091716
The "guy" that did the Subway commercials was married....twice and had children.
No spin necessary. In hindsight, as we all make mistakes, most of us likely say we should have done more, or done something differently, words to that effect.
It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, after the game is over and the results are in.
Lodge brother? Were they part of some kid raping lodge , because Paterno looks like he could be a diddler too. Might explain why he didnt do anything about it
Seriously , being part of one of those ridiculous secret handshake clubs where guys go to get drunk and hide from their wives would not absolve anyone of a crime .
Interesting - I did not know that.
Perhaps to some, the executives at Subway should be ostracized like Joe Paterno?
Sure seems like the Subway molesting punk fooled them in a similar manner that Sandusky fooled everyone.
Um...why?
It's a serious question. I didn't follow the case too closely and I don't watch college football.* As I said, it's very easy to judge people when you are far removed. EMPATHIZE. Put yourself in the man's shoes. IF YOU spent YOUR entire life building a career and it is going to go down the toilet because of someone else's actions and no fault of your own. He knew he would be guilty by association - which, by the way, he is now, isn't he? It's unclear what he know when to an unbiased reader. Obviously Penn State detractors will tell you he knew everything as far back as 1976 and Paterno supporters will say he never knew anything until 2001. That stuff doesn't much interest me.
According to the author of this CNN article (first one listed when I googled it):
"Some authorities in the case have said they never found evidence Paterno committed any crime in connection with Sandusky's abuse, though some also have said Paterno could have done more to stop his assistant.
It's something Paterno himself admitted in November 2011.
"I wish I had done more," he said after he was dismissed from Penn State after 46 years as its head football coach.
And it was a point echoed by a judge in June when he sentenced the three ex-Penn State administrators to jail in connection with the case."
While it seems OBVIOUS that a lot went on behind the scenes in this case, who knew what and when is at best murky - at least to me. That's a big part of the problem with a state run agency investigating a state run agency - too many overlapping interests.
But, I'm asking again - what was his responsibility? Call the police directly? Kill him, vigilante style (like it seems most people would like to do to these types of monsters)?
Or perhaps, better asked, what would YOU do if this type of allegation was made against someone you knew, worked closely with and trusted from your job?
As a teacher, I had a young girl in my class who was molested by her grandfather. I was in frequent contact with her mother, whose dad was the abuser, and confided to me about her ordeal. I cannot imagine what it did to the young girl or her mother; her constant disbelief was what stuck with me - she just kept saying she couldn't believe it and she thought [her daughter] was lying.' When she finally allowed herself to 'believe', she took the steps necessary to put him in jail, which is a happy ending, I guess, though that family would probably not choose to use the word 'happy'.
Working with adolescents as a teacher, these things are much more common than most people realize and often more complicated than people like to think. It's also part of the reason I had to give up teaching in the inner city.
*Read this article in the interim, to get a better feel:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/09/us/penn-state-paterno-sandusky-police-report/index.html
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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It's identical to the Penn State situation except I have heard nothing to indicate Subway knew or should have known and the abuse did not happen at Subway/commercial shoots. Other than that it's identical. Lol.
I am in a fraternity, one of the largest in the country, pledged and accepted as a member while a student at Penn State. So i understand the mind frame of a group such as this. I will always have loyalty to my brothers and my fraternity.
That being said, no group membership, fraternity or otherwise, trumps something such as child molestation, and it should be obvious. Anyone convicted of that in my fraternity would be thrown out immediately.
I pointed out that "lodge thing" earlier not to say that Paterno would look the other way about child molestation, but to depict how with all the overall factors involved, how it would be difficult for Paterno to believe that Sandusky was a child molester. Paterno was not going to abandon his friend based on innuendo or speculation. When Mike McQueary approached Paterno with what he saw in the showers, it was no longer innuendo or speculation, and Paterno at that point did report it.
The way some criminals can fool people is identical. If you've ever watched any of those true crime shows on cable, you would understand how clever these molesters, serial killers, etc, can be in fooling the public, including their wives and girlfriends. Of course when they finally get caught, it's easy to look back and say some particular behavior of theirs should have been investigated and looked into further. This is said all the time about home grown terrorists.
"Jared Fogle’s Ex-Wife Says Subway Knew Its Spokesman Was a Pedophile"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jared-fogles-ex-wife-says-subway-knew-its-spokesman-was-a-pedophile
This all seems to be so horribly true. Yesterday I was sitting in a Doctors office with my wife and picked up a magazine that had a story in it about a family where the Mom and Dad had like 13 kids aged from 2 to 29 that they have been abusing, not feeding and chained to beds their whole lives. Yet when they did go out to renew their "vows" and had the whole family out and had family pics taken no one was the wiser that anything was going on. This family had moved several times ending up in CA and the people who lived around them never suspected anything. How can that happen?????!!!!!!!
Plenty of blame to go around. Paterno was the face of Penn State and the only name that anyone out of the state recognized. Infamy will be his through eternity.
Yes, that story got national attention for a few days.
From those pics, it seems like they could have been the Partridge Family.
Sorry you had to give up teaching in the inner city. One of my closest friends, a fraternity brother, his father was a high school principal in the inner city, and he told me stories that were almost hard to believe about what goes on there.
Assuming the DailyBeast is reliable media (I have never heard of it) then yes I see the similarities. Regardless Paterno was much less of a good man then his followers want to see him as.
Pasted:
The head coach was asked under oath in 2011: "Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?"
Responded Paterno: "I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it. You did mention -- I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody."
Paterno the following year cleared up any inference to rumors. In his interview with The Washington Post's Sally Jenkins, the head coach said he had "no inkling" of allegations against Sandusky before 2001.