I'm sad to hear that this happened. It is a shame that you can't trust a significant percentage of the population.
There were definitely some nice (collectable) bars in that shipment.
This is definitely a criminal case, but I am not convinced that it was entirely premeditated.
Imagine a scenario where the large (and relatively heavy) package was accidently dropped. It could split open a seam, which would present a shady person with a crime of opportunity. Or the box could have been dropped on purpose. There is no way to know for sure unless a perpetrator eventually confesses. However, I suspect that if a postal thief knew the contents ahead of time and wanted to steal it, they might use a more surgical approach for getting into the package rather than potentially drawing unwanted attention to themselves by ripping it open haphazardly.
A few years I had a couple packages arrive at different buyers but missing the coins. These were individual coins packaged in those sticky corrugated cardboard fold-overs and mailed in standard letter envelopes. After seeing pictures of both emptied envelopes it was apparent to me that they were run through the automatic sorter and were too thick and stiff for that and they got ripped open in the machinery. They should have been mailed in larger packaging or, at least, marked "non machinable".
Soon after that I switched to using 8.5"x11" stiff flats for all small shipments. When one of those split open at a fold during shipment I started taping the edges with clear packing tape.
For larger and heavy shipments, I use the USPS Flat Rate boxes, but I use strapping tape around all three dimensions of the box including the beltline. If it is a Registered package, I cover the strapping tape with the moistened paper tape (as per Registration regulations). "Strapping tape" is the kind with the fiberglass embedded in it and it is almost impossible to tear.
Since switching to large flats with taped edges and Flat Rate boxes with strapping tape, I have not had a single shipping loss in the last couple years except a case were a lower-value package was stolen out of the recipient's home mailbox.
Is there video of you dropping it off at the PO? It will show the inspectors you didn't drop off that taped up box. Small heavy packages can break open easily and they beg to be stolen. Just wondering, why would you ship it all in one package? Why didnt you use registered mail?
@1Mike1 said:
A package doesn't disappear for five to eight days and suddenly turn up in the mail again without the help of a postal employee. The problem is figuring out who it is. Getting the items back would be great. Getting compensated through insurance would be second best. As long as I was compensated I'm not sure what you would gain through a civil.suit.
I have had packages that I was tracking not update for a week before showing up at the next stop on the line. It does happen.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@1Mike1 said:
A package doesn't disappear for five to eight days and suddenly turn up in the mail again without the help of a postal employee. The problem is figuring out who it is. Getting the items back would be great. Getting compensated through insurance would be second best. As long as I was compensated I'm not sure what you would gain through a civil.suit.
I have had packages that I was tracking not update for a week before showing up at the next stop on the line. It does happen.
Yea, sorry, I meant physically not electronically.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Hopefully the thief does not "google" a serial number with the word "silver" next to it. If they do, this thread is the first thing they will find and read... Might be pretty educational for them...
» show previous quotes
My sympathies for the loss and for what you are experiencing. The time delay in delivery is certainly the fault of the postal system. By not having adequate procedures, protocols, and safeguards in place to provide for their promised overnight delivery they were negligent. The time delay allowed more opportunity for nefarious conduct so there you have your proximate cause. I think you might have the basis for a civil suit regardless of insurance. Worth having a lawyer in your jurisdiction at least research the issue.
Here is one of the legal principles implied from my above comments that you might want to discuss with an attorney in your jurisdiction. This on the subject of the duties relating to "Bailment" from lawyers.com (with you as the "bailor" and the postal service in the position of the "bailee"):
"In all bailment situations, the bailee has a minimum duty of care to ensure the safety of the property. A bailee who breaches or fails to uphold that duty can be held legally liable for damages. A bailee can also be held liable for conversion if he or she uses the property without the bailor's permission, or doesn't return the property to the bailor upon request.
A higher standard of care is imposed upon a paid bailee. There's a lower standard of care imposed upon a bailee in a gratuitous bailment. With a bailment agreement or contract, the parties can agree to hold the bailee free from liability.
The bailee's standard of care is determined based upon the purpose of the bailment and whether it's for the benefit of the bailee alone, the bailor alone, or for the benefit of both parties.
If the bailment is for the benefit of the bailee alone, then the bailee owes a duty of extraordinary care. If the bailment is for the benefit of both the bailee and the bailor, then the bailee owes a duty of reasonable or ordinary care. Reasonable care is care that a person of ordinary prudence would exercise in the same or similar circumstances. If the bailment is a gratuitous bailment and is for the benefit of only the bailor, then the bailee owes only a duty of slight care."
@1Mike1 said:
A package doesn't disappear for five to eight days and suddenly turn up in the mail again without the help of a postal employee. The problem is figuring out who it is. Getting the items back would be great. Getting compensated through insurance would be second best. As long as I was compensated I'm not sure what you would gain through a civil.suit.
It appears there were limits on the available insurance given that the package was not sent registered mail, thus the suggestion of a civil suit as a potential option that merits having a lawyer in the OP's jurisdiction at least research its viability.
I remember the time we received a 100oz vintage JM Matthey bar sent in just a cheap bubble mailer, no signature confirmation. It was just plopped on our doorstep. That is just one of the crazy shipping experiences we've had and that came from a pretty big online dealer! Needless to say it really pays to be on a first name basis with folks at your local post office. I hate reading stories like this, I really hope it all works out
Even friends you thought were your friend will rip you off, I know.
Leo said it best. You never know. It's happened to me. My concern for you is that the bad guy knows where you live. My remedy is this; Just like we don't let on to strangers, people at work, or parties etc. that we collect coins....let EVERYONE know, or at least THINK that you're always packing. Drop hints. Asides during a conversation like..."I always sleep with a loaded 45 under my pillow." Or...."A sawed- off 12 gauge can really mess someone up." Etc., etc. Thing is, it works. There's a lot of jerks out there. Some of them are your best(?) friends. Good luck. Thing is, I know you can afford the loss. You'll be o.k. You're just mad now. You should be. Put the word out. You're a bad as* psycho. And you won't hesitate. Good luck, friend. You'll need it to find the bad guy. You're smart. It won't happen again. Look close to home.
Learned my lesson young. If you're missing COINS, GUNS, or WOMEN..... The culprit is most likely a close friend(?). Bad women can be replaced with good ones. And good riddance to them. But your guns and coins.....man that hurts!
@dtkk49a said:
Is there video of you dropping it off at the PO? It will show the inspectors you didn't drop off that taped up box. Small heavy packages can break open easily and they beg to be stolen. Just wondering, why would you ship it all in one package? Why didnt you use registered mail?
As the OP mentioned earlier in the thread, this is really not the time or place to talk about the "what if's". He feels bad enough at the moment, and needs any help we can give him. Let's let this play out a bit and hope for the best.
Anyway, to keep this a bit on track, here is the photo of the package where Harry Winston shipped the Hope diamond from NYC to Washington DC via Registered mail in November 1958. Delivered by the local letter carrier to the Smithsonian. To mail the package (insured for $1 million), the postage was $2.44 with insurance of $142.85 - total of $145.29. That was all real money 60 years ago. These days, all those stickers would be a super big red flag.
Lastly, our company used to send six and seven figure shipments of precious metal precursors to my auto catalyst plant via Fedex. No insurance, no drama, self insured for loss - and never a loss. But they didn't look like bullion in any way - they would remind you of floor sweepings in old style metal coffee cans.
Mark - I sincerely hope progress is made in the coming weeks.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
@amwldcoin said:
After my theft...hopefully a tip for other shippers. I have started oversizing my packaging on heavier items so they don't seem heavy for their size. Just be sure to package it so it passes the shake test and nothing will move!
Very good advice. Even a ten pound package can seem like lead if it is small enough. Takes a little work, but needs to be centered as well.
The second CA stop that disappeared from online could be important
It was indeed edited. Fortunately we captured it several times. I feel like punching someone. Myself included
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@cameonut2011 said:
Any luck in recovery or finding the thief?
It just happened Friday. I was in Mexico. Ball started rolling first thing Saturday but it was the weekend. I’ll update as much ad possible
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sorry, nothing helpful to add. I have had similar experiences but I read the whole thread and seems like any advice I would have has already been given. So, I will just wish you the best of luck.
@Hydrant said:
Learned my lesson young. If you're missing COINS, GUNS, or WOMEN..... The culprit is most likely a close friend(?). Bad women can be replaced with good ones. And good riddance to them. But your guns and coins.....man that hurts!
@1Mike1 said:
That sucks. Seems to me if this package was registered they would have the names of each person who possessed it along the way (postal workers).
It wasn’t. It was sent Priority Overnight insured.
mark
Insured for the full value ?
Postal Employee theft is very rare. The P.O handles millions of Priority mailings every year and a tiny fraction of them are lost or stolen . Any thief is quickly culled from the work force . I have to wonder why they left a few bars in the package .........., the P.O is not in the habit of weighing Priority Mail in transit nor upon delivery to the shipped to P.O.
This sure stinks of an "inside" job though I must say . Good luck with the outcome.
Apparently theft is not so rare in this area. Hopefullly they will root this thief out. I have my suspicions why they put the weights in and why they left a few bars. Wish they hadn’t as this would give me more hope for recovery.
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Hi Mark, are you able to tell where those weights came from, or what they might be used for? It's the only physical thing the thief left you, so hopefully it turns out that they're pretty unusual or covered in prints or something.
@1Mike1 said:
That sucks. Seems to me if this package was registered they would have the names of each person who possessed it along the way (postal workers).
It wasn’t. It was sent Priority Overnight insured.
mark
Insured for the full value ?
Postal Employee theft is very rare. The P.O handles millions of Priority mailings every year and a tiny fraction of them are lost or stolen . Any thief is quickly culled from the work force . I have to wonder why they left a few bars in the package .........., the P.O is not in the habit of weighing Priority Mail in transit nor upon delivery to the shipped to P.O.
This sure stinks of an "inside" job though I must say . Good luck with the outcome.
Apparently theft is not so rare in this area. Hopefullly they will root this thief out. I have my suspicions why they put the weights in and why they left a few bars. Wish they hadn’t as this would give me more hope for recovery.
Mark
I had a registered package with a single certified SLQ stolen during shipment by USPS while enroute to PCGS. They paid out the claim after all the paperwork. I wish I made a bigger deal about them investigating it but they gave me the money without much question. Probably to make me go away. It was mailed in an oversized box so claiming they "lost" it wouldn't fly. My point is that even registered isn't 100% safe.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Postage is apparently for the PO to simply "consider" shipping a package. If you actually want it to get where you need it, we'll then, that will be more....
The fact that one needs Insurance and or Registered is an admission that the PO has a problem. Maybe just a rant, but the business model is troubling to me. You know your eventually gonna get pinched, you just hope it isn't something big.
With that off my chest, in regards to this ordeal, what I can't seem to get is why put the weights in the box. I think that if a box disappears, then that would make a target zone in the shipping chain, but why would a box have to weigh anything.....couldn't one ship an empty box and insure it for a load and that wouldn't mean anything out of the ordinary. Attempts at cover ups usually create more evidence than its worth.
Is it because the recipient would sign and walk out if the PO building making a scenario where the PO could deny responsibility and if light then it would pique alarm with the recipient and create an investigation right at the desk of the PO?
Regardless, sorry that you have to deal with this....could happen to anybody.
I haven’t read every response, Mark. But have you considered posting your reward notice at the postal facility where this happened? Just a thought.
I wish you the best of luck, Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@1Mike1 said:
That sucks. Seems to me if this package was registered they would have the names of each person who possessed it along the way (postal workers).
It wasn’t. It was sent Priority Overnight insured.
mark
Insured for the full value ?
Postal Employee theft is very rare. The P.O handles millions of Priority mailings every year and a tiny fraction of them are lost or stolen . Any thief is quickly culled from the work force . I have to wonder why they left a few bars in the package .........., the P.O is not in the habit of weighing Priority Mail in transit nor upon delivery to the shipped to P.O.
This sure stinks of an "inside" job though I must say . Good luck with the outcome.
Apparently theft is not so rare in this area. Hopefullly they will root this thief out. I have my suspicions why they put the weights in and why they left a few bars. Wish they hadn’t as this would give me more hope for recovery.
Mark
I had a registered package with a single certified SLQ stolen during shipment by USPS while enroute to PCGS. They paid out the claim after all the paperwork. I wish I made a bigger deal about them investigating it but they gave me the money without much question. Probably to make me go away. It was mailed in an oversized box so claiming they "lost" it wouldn't fly. My point is that even registered isn't 100% safe.
Well I won’t sleep for a few more days now after reading this . I shipped a high value coin registered to Florida today. I want to puke
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It easy to see why they would put'make-up' weight in the box.
The thief didn't count on this being a deal between two trusted friends. His hope was that the receiver would file a case with the seller saying, " I bought silver bars from this guy, LOOK WHAT HE SENT ME !"
Thus keeping the heat off himself.
@thebeav said:
It easy to see why they would put'make-up' weight in the box.
The thief didn't count on this being a deal between two trusted friends. His hope was that the receiver would file a case with the seller saying, " I bought silver bars from this guy, LOOK WHAT HE SENT ME !"
Thus keeping the heat off himself.
Interesting
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@crazyhounddog said:
I haven’t read every response, Mark. But have you considered posting your reward notice at the postal facility where this happened? Just a thought.
I wish you the best of luck, Joe
I would make sure to run anything like this past the postal inspector first. I would not want to interfere or put undue pressure where they did not want it at the moment.
sorry, I'm gunna chime in again..I make it to be on first name basis with all my delivery drivers. In the summer I keep a couple bottles of water/soda by front door-especially if I know a high dollar package is coming or multiple boxes in the shipment(or many boxes that week even)...it goes along way. They really appreciate it, I take of them, they take care of me ... I know this doesn't pertain in this case, just thought I would throw it out there for everyone.
Just make sure to keep your head up! Nag them everyday, call everyday & email everyday. Make sure you call them "Collectibles" also!
I'm still on the lookout for ya and I hope this comes to a quick end for you and a long jail sentence for the offender! Please keep us updated!
Did the buyer, upon receiving an obviously tampered with package, call you before opening it?
The post offices mentioned in this thread I believe are the same PO's that seem to "lose" a lot of packages going and coming from PSA.
You would think they would have solved this theft problem by now.
@dtkk49a said:
Did the buyer, upon receiving an obviously tampered with package, call you before opening it?
The post offices mentioned in this thread I believe are the same PO's that seem to "lose" a lot of packages going and coming from PSA.
You would think they would have solved this theft problem by now.
Yes and he opened it at the Post Office.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is the case# and contact numbers if you get any bites. Much love to the board.
Mark
USPS Inspector case# CA137546212
877-876-2455
and
Doug Davis
(Chief of Police Ret.)
Founder/President
Numismatic Crime Information Center
817-723-7231
www.numismaticcrimes.org
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark I am so sorry this happened, as a trader of collectors bullion myself this case is just a nightmare.
This makes me sick, I will share on all avenues possible.
One saving grace is the uniquely Serial Numbered Bars, IF EVERYONE who possibly can, share this and get the word out these bars cant get far on the public market. Engelhard bars are highly sought after by collectors and it should be noted by any serious collector that these Serial numbers are stolen property until recovered by the original shipper.
@coinpro76 said:
Mark I am so sorry this happened, as a trader of collectors bullion myself this case is just a nightmare.
This makes me sick, I will share on all avenues possible.
One saving grace is the uniquely Serial Numbered Bars, IF EVERYONE who possibly can, share this and get the word out these bars cant get far on the public market. Engelhard bars are highly sought after by collectors and it should be noted by any serious collector that these Serial numbers are stolen property until recovered by the original shipper.
SPREAD THE WORD.
Awesome!
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Even friends you thought were your friend will rip you off, I know.
Leo said it best. You never know. It's happened to me. My concern for you is that the bad guy knows where you live. My remedy is this; Just like we don't let on to strangers, people at work, or parties etc. that we collect coins....let EVERYONE know, or at least THINK that you're always packing. Drop hints. Asides during a conversation like..."I always sleep with a loaded 45 under my pillow." Or...."A sawed- off 12 gauge can really mess someone up." Etc., etc. Thing is, it works. There's a lot of jerks out there. Some of them are your best(?) friends. Good luck. Thing is, I know you can afford the loss. You'll be o.k. You're just mad now. You should be. Put the word out. You're a bad as* psycho. And you won't hesitate. Good luck, friend. You'll need it to find the bad guy. You're smart. It won't happen again. Look close to home.
IMO, not the best idea. They'll break in for your guns...and survival junk silver/gold (the two often go together).ammunition, and
@Cameonut said:
Anyway, to keep this a bit on track, here is the photo of the package where Harry Winston shipped the Hope diamond from NYC to Washington DC via Registered mail in November 1958. Delivered by the local letter carrier to the Smithsonian. To mail the package (insured for $1 million), the postage was $2.44 with insurance of $142.85 - total of $145.29. That was all real money 60 years ago. These days, all those stickers would be a super big red flag.
Do you own this wrapper or Is it on display somewhere?
@Cameonut said:
Anyway, to keep this a bit on track, here is the photo of the package where Harry Winston shipped the Hope diamond from NYC to Washington DC via Registered mail in November 1958. Delivered by the local letter carrier to the Smithsonian. To mail the package (insured for $1 million), the postage was $2.44 with insurance of $142.85 - total of $145.29. That was all real money 60 years ago. These days, all those stickers would be a super big red flag.
Do you own this wrapper or Is it on display somewhere?
It is on display at the Smithsonian's National Postal Museum next to Union Station in Washington DC. Free admission.
Lots of rotten people out there - just had a brand new 0-hour $4000 Yamaha kicker on my Grady stolen this weekend.
Would prefer it was a postal crime as they are taken more seriously.......you have that going for you.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
What a nightmare. I'm very sorry this happened to you, Mark.
I see the below note on Sheridan Downey's site about two bust halves (~$10k). I hope your situation turns out as well.
Lance.
"This coin was sold to an advanced collector but lost in the mail on the way to its new home. PCGS cert # 32481323. In Feb. 2018 it was twice offered on eBay and has been recovered by the Office of Inspector General. Criminal prosecution is underway."
Mark, I don't know you personally, but I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you. I'm hoping for a positive outcome for you and I will keep on the lookout for these items.
Sorry to hear about it. There was some nice stuff in there.
I hope the Postal Inspectors come through.
I am not saying it is a good idea but if it were me, I would be tempted to go down there and want to meet everyone who might have handled that package. I'd also consider mailing some "decoy" packages with some sort of tracking device to see if the perps struck again (knowing where the package got hung up for a few days would reveal their identity, I think).
Lastly, I would do as you have done and alert anyone and everyone who might see the bullion come through the door, but I would be sure to include lower-end venues like pawn shops. Maybe peruse their inventory before mentioning that you had stuff stolen.
Hopefully they pay the insurance claim, but if they do, you lose ownership and interest in the items.
I'd also consider mailing some "decoy" packages with some sort of tracking device to see if the perps struck again (knowing where the package got hung up for a few days would reveal their identity, I think).
If you find them they will spend at least 10 years in the big house. I had mail stolen by some Nigerian exchange students and they get caught. All 20 of them. The postal inspector told me to be at the Federal Court House in Houston to testify and I could not wait. Nineteen plead out and got 10 years with no parole as a plea agreement and the last was going to fight it but after being told by the feds I was glad to testify he plead as well. If he was convicted it was 20 years.
Anyone stupid enough to do this when they are given a chance to go to college here and do this deserves just what they got. Best part after their time was done they were sent back to the arm pit of the world where they deserved to be.
If I see what you had stolen I will advise you and want no money. Just an update on what they get for stealing your mail and it won't be nice. They may well be melted to avoid detection and sold as bullion but maybe they are stupid enough to send them through Heritage. Remember how Tom Cruise got the bad guys in a movie. The Client.
@HeyItsMe said:
sorry, I'm gunna chime in again..I make it to be on first name basis with all my delivery drivers. In the summer I keep a couple bottles of water/soda by front door-especially if I know a high dollar package is coming or multiple boxes in the shipment(or many boxes that week even)...it goes along way. They really appreciate it, I take of them, they take care of me ... I know this doesn't pertain in this case, just thought I would throw it out there for everyone.
Just make sure to keep your head up! Nag them everyday, call everyday & email everyday. Make sure you call them "Collectibles" also!
I'm still on the lookout for ya and I hope this comes to a quick end for you and a long jail sentence for the offender! Please keep us updated!
Sure, a $1 bottle of water would keep me from stealing a $50,000 coin. The thought of Federal jail or loss of a cushy Federal job with a great pension was never much of a deterent.
@grip said:
This is a great idea if it would be allowed.
I'd also consider mailing some "decoy" packages with some sort of tracking device to see if the perps struck again (knowing where the package got hung up for a few days would reveal their identity, I think).
statistics. You would have to mail thousands of decoy packages.
Comments
I'm sad to hear that this happened. It is a shame that you can't trust a significant percentage of the population.
There were definitely some nice (collectable) bars in that shipment.
This is definitely a criminal case, but I am not convinced that it was entirely premeditated.
Imagine a scenario where the large (and relatively heavy) package was accidently dropped. It could split open a seam, which would present a shady person with a crime of opportunity. Or the box could have been dropped on purpose. There is no way to know for sure unless a perpetrator eventually confesses. However, I suspect that if a postal thief knew the contents ahead of time and wanted to steal it, they might use a more surgical approach for getting into the package rather than potentially drawing unwanted attention to themselves by ripping it open haphazardly.
A few years I had a couple packages arrive at different buyers but missing the coins. These were individual coins packaged in those sticky corrugated cardboard fold-overs and mailed in standard letter envelopes. After seeing pictures of both emptied envelopes it was apparent to me that they were run through the automatic sorter and were too thick and stiff for that and they got ripped open in the machinery. They should have been mailed in larger packaging or, at least, marked "non machinable".
Soon after that I switched to using 8.5"x11" stiff flats for all small shipments. When one of those split open at a fold during shipment I started taping the edges with clear packing tape.
For larger and heavy shipments, I use the USPS Flat Rate boxes, but I use strapping tape around all three dimensions of the box including the beltline. If it is a Registered package, I cover the strapping tape with the moistened paper tape (as per Registration regulations). "Strapping tape" is the kind with the fiberglass embedded in it and it is almost impossible to tear.
Since switching to large flats with taped edges and Flat Rate boxes with strapping tape, I have not had a single shipping loss in the last couple years except a case were a lower-value package was stolen out of the recipient's home mailbox.
Is there video of you dropping it off at the PO? It will show the inspectors you didn't drop off that taped up box. Small heavy packages can break open easily and they beg to be stolen. Just wondering, why would you ship it all in one package? Why didnt you use registered mail?
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
I have had packages that I was tracking not update for a week before showing up at the next stop on the line. It does happen.
Yea, sorry, I meant physically not electronically.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Hopefully the thief does not "google" a serial number with the word "silver" next to it. If they do, this thread is the first thing they will find and read... Might be pretty educational for them...
@northcoin said:
» show previous quotes
My sympathies for the loss and for what you are experiencing. The time delay in delivery is certainly the fault of the postal system. By not having adequate procedures, protocols, and safeguards in place to provide for their promised overnight delivery they were negligent. The time delay allowed more opportunity for nefarious conduct so there you have your proximate cause. I think you might have the basis for a civil suit regardless of insurance. Worth having a lawyer in your jurisdiction at least research the issue.
Here is one of the legal principles implied from my above comments that you might want to discuss with an attorney in your jurisdiction. This on the subject of the duties relating to "Bailment" from lawyers.com (with you as the "bailor" and the postal service in the position of the "bailee"):
"In all bailment situations, the bailee has a minimum duty of care to ensure the safety of the property. A bailee who breaches or fails to uphold that duty can be held legally liable for damages. A bailee can also be held liable for conversion if he or she uses the property without the bailor's permission, or doesn't return the property to the bailor upon request.
A higher standard of care is imposed upon a paid bailee. There's a lower standard of care imposed upon a bailee in a gratuitous bailment. With a bailment agreement or contract, the parties can agree to hold the bailee free from liability.
The bailee's standard of care is determined based upon the purpose of the bailment and whether it's for the benefit of the bailee alone, the bailor alone, or for the benefit of both parties.
If the bailment is for the benefit of the bailee alone, then the bailee owes a duty of extraordinary care. If the bailment is for the benefit of both the bailee and the bailor, then the bailee owes a duty of reasonable or ordinary care. Reasonable care is care that a person of ordinary prudence would exercise in the same or similar circumstances. If the bailment is a gratuitous bailment and is for the benefit of only the bailor, then the bailee owes only a duty of slight care."
https://lawyers.com/legal-info/business-law/business-law-basics/bailment-leaving-your-belongings-behind.html
It appears there were limits on the available insurance given that the package was not sent registered mail, thus the suggestion of a civil suit as a potential option that merits having a lawyer in the OP's jurisdiction at least research its viability.
I remember the time we received a 100oz vintage JM Matthey bar sent in just a cheap bubble mailer, no signature confirmation. It was just plopped on our doorstep. That is just one of the crazy shipping experiences we've had and that came from a pretty big online dealer! Needless to say it really pays to be on a first name basis with folks at your local post office. I hate reading stories like this, I really hope it all works out
Leo said it best. You never know. It's happened to me. My concern for you is that the bad guy knows where you live. My remedy is this; Just like we don't let on to strangers, people at work, or parties etc. that we collect coins....let EVERYONE know, or at least THINK that you're always packing. Drop hints. Asides during a conversation like..."I always sleep with a loaded 45 under my pillow." Or...."A sawed- off 12 gauge can really mess someone up." Etc., etc. Thing is, it works. There's a lot of jerks out there. Some of them are your best(?) friends. Good luck. Thing is, I know you can afford the loss. You'll be o.k. You're just mad now. You should be. Put the word out. You're a bad as* psycho. And you won't hesitate. Good luck, friend. You'll need it to find the bad guy. You're smart. It won't happen again. Look close to home.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Learned my lesson young. If you're missing COINS, GUNS, or WOMEN..... The culprit is most likely a close friend(?). Bad women can be replaced with good ones. And good riddance to them. But your guns and coins.....man that hurts!
So sorry to hear this awful news and I hope things will end on a positive note.
I have a personal experience similar to yours but the dollar amount was much less (I'm positive it was the postal clerk who was the guilty party).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
As the OP mentioned earlier in the thread, this is really not the time or place to talk about the "what if's". He feels bad enough at the moment, and needs any help we can give him. Let's let this play out a bit and hope for the best.
Anyway, to keep this a bit on track, here is the photo of the package where Harry Winston shipped the Hope diamond from NYC to Washington DC via Registered mail in November 1958. Delivered by the local letter carrier to the Smithsonian. To mail the package (insured for $1 million), the postage was $2.44 with insurance of $142.85 - total of $145.29. That was all real money 60 years ago. These days, all those stickers would be a super big red flag.
Lastly, our company used to send six and seven figure shipments of precious metal precursors to my auto catalyst plant via Fedex. No insurance, no drama, self insured for loss - and never a loss. But they didn't look like bullion in any way - they would remind you of floor sweepings in old style metal coffee cans.
Mark - I sincerely hope progress is made in the coming weeks.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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Very good advice. Even a ten pound package can seem like lead if it is small enough. Takes a little work, but needs to be centered as well.
Tracking can be edited
The second CA stop that disappeared from online could be important
It was indeed edited. Fortunately we captured it several times. I feel like punching someone. Myself included
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Any luck in recovery or finding the thief?
Sympathies sent. We are rooting for you.
I don't know the collectible bar market, so I am curious what type of loss/value we are talking about here?
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
It just happened Friday. I was in Mexico. Ball started rolling first thing Saturday but it was the weekend. I’ll update as much ad possible
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sorry, nothing helpful to add. I have had similar experiences but I read the whole thread and seems like any advice I would have has already been given. So, I will just wish you the best of luck.
I hope this is resolved soon!
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You might need some new friends.
Apparently theft is not so rare in this area. Hopefullly they will root this thief out. I have my suspicions why they put the weights in and why they left a few bars. Wish they hadn’t as this would give me more hope for recovery.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
appears theft occurred while in possession of USPS. Inside job, no question.
Economic headlines the mainstream media are hiding from you.
Hi Mark, are you able to tell where those weights came from, or what they might be used for? It's the only physical thing the thief left you, so hopefully it turns out that they're pretty unusual or covered in prints or something.
I had a registered package with a single certified SLQ stolen during shipment by USPS while enroute to PCGS. They paid out the claim after all the paperwork. I wish I made a bigger deal about them investigating it but they gave me the money without much question. Probably to make me go away. It was mailed in an oversized box so claiming they "lost" it wouldn't fly. My point is that even registered isn't 100% safe.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Postage is apparently for the PO to simply "consider" shipping a package. If you actually want it to get where you need it, we'll then, that will be more....
The fact that one needs Insurance and or Registered is an admission that the PO has a problem. Maybe just a rant, but the business model is troubling to me. You know your eventually gonna get pinched, you just hope it isn't something big.
With that off my chest, in regards to this ordeal, what I can't seem to get is why put the weights in the box. I think that if a box disappears, then that would make a target zone in the shipping chain, but why would a box have to weigh anything.....couldn't one ship an empty box and insure it for a load and that wouldn't mean anything out of the ordinary. Attempts at cover ups usually create more evidence than its worth.
Is it because the recipient would sign and walk out if the PO building making a scenario where the PO could deny responsibility and if light then it would pique alarm with the recipient and create an investigation right at the desk of the PO?
Regardless, sorry that you have to deal with this....could happen to anybody.
I haven’t read every response, Mark. But have you considered posting your reward notice at the postal facility where this happened? Just a thought.
I wish you the best of luck, Joe
Well I won’t sleep for a few more days now after reading this . I shipped a high value coin registered to Florida today. I want to puke
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It easy to see why they would put'make-up' weight in the box.
The thief didn't count on this being a deal between two trusted friends. His hope was that the receiver would file a case with the seller saying, " I bought silver bars from this guy, LOOK WHAT HE SENT ME !"
Thus keeping the heat off himself.
Interesting
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would make sure to run anything like this past the postal inspector first. I would not want to interfere or put undue pressure where they did not want it at the moment.
sorry, I'm gunna chime in again..I make it to be on first name basis with all my delivery drivers. In the summer I keep a couple bottles of water/soda by front door-especially if I know a high dollar package is coming or multiple boxes in the shipment(or many boxes that week even)...it goes along way. They really appreciate it, I take of them, they take care of me
... I know this doesn't pertain in this case, just thought I would throw it out there for everyone. 
Just make sure to keep your head up! Nag them everyday, call everyday & email everyday. Make sure you call them "Collectibles" also!
I'm still on the lookout for ya and I hope this comes to a quick end for you and a long jail sentence for the offender! Please keep us updated!
Take it easy, Mark. Life is about crappy stuff happening. If we are lucky, it doesn't happen too often.
Did the buyer, upon receiving an obviously tampered with package, call you before opening it?
The post offices mentioned in this thread I believe are the same PO's that seem to "lose" a lot of packages going and coming from PSA.
You would think they would have solved this theft problem by now.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Yes and he opened it at the Post Office.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
FYI
Here is the case# and contact numbers if you get any bites. Much love to the board.
Mark
USPS Inspector case# CA137546212
877-876-2455
and
Doug Davis
(Chief of Police Ret.)
Founder/President
Numismatic Crime Information Center
817-723-7231
www.numismaticcrimes.org
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark I am so sorry this happened, as a trader of collectors bullion myself this case is just a nightmare.
This makes me sick, I will share on all avenues possible.
One saving grace is the uniquely Serial Numbered Bars, IF EVERYONE who possibly can, share this and get the word out these bars cant get far on the public market. Engelhard bars are highly sought after by collectors and it should be noted by any serious collector that these Serial numbers are stolen property until recovered by the original shipper.
SPREAD THE WORD.
all around collector of many fine things
Awesome!
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
IMO, not the best idea. They'll break in for your guns...and survival junk silver/gold (the two often go together).ammunition, and
Do you own this wrapper or Is it on display somewhere?
It is on display at the Smithsonian's National Postal Museum next to Union Station in Washington DC. Free admission.
Here is a link: postalmuseumblog.si.edu/2012/11/delivering-the-hope-diamond.html
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Lots of rotten people out there - just had a brand new 0-hour $4000 Yamaha kicker on my Grady stolen this weekend.
Would prefer it was a postal crime as they are taken more seriously.......you have that going for you.
What a nightmare. I'm very sorry this happened to you, Mark.
I see the below note on Sheridan Downey's site about two bust halves (~$10k). I hope your situation turns out as well.
Lance.
"This coin was sold to an advanced collector but lost in the mail on the way to its new home. PCGS cert # 32481323. In Feb. 2018 it was twice offered on eBay and has been recovered by the Office of Inspector General. Criminal prosecution is underway."
Mark, I don't know you personally, but I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you. I'm hoping for a positive outcome for you and I will keep on the lookout for these items.
Stay positive.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Sorry to hear about it. There was some nice stuff in there.
I hope the Postal Inspectors come through.
I am not saying it is a good idea but if it were me, I would be tempted to go down there and want to meet everyone who might have handled that package. I'd also consider mailing some "decoy" packages with some sort of tracking device to see if the perps struck again (knowing where the package got hung up for a few days would reveal their identity, I think).
Lastly, I would do as you have done and alert anyone and everyone who might see the bullion come through the door, but I would be sure to include lower-end venues like pawn shops. Maybe peruse their inventory before mentioning that you had stuff stolen.
Hopefully they pay the insurance claim, but if they do, you lose ownership and interest in the items.
This is a great idea if it would be allowed.
I'd also consider mailing some "decoy" packages with some sort of tracking device to see if the perps struck again (knowing where the package got hung up for a few days would reveal their identity, I think).
If you find them they will spend at least 10 years in the big house. I had mail stolen by some Nigerian exchange students and they get caught. All 20 of them. The postal inspector told me to be at the Federal Court House in Houston to testify and I could not wait. Nineteen plead out and got 10 years with no parole as a plea agreement and the last was going to fight it but after being told by the feds I was glad to testify he plead as well. If he was convicted it was 20 years.
Anyone stupid enough to do this when they are given a chance to go to college here and do this deserves just what they got. Best part after their time was done they were sent back to the arm pit of the world where they deserved to be.
If I see what you had stolen I will advise you and want no money. Just an update on what they get for stealing your mail and it won't be nice. They may well be melted to avoid detection and sold as bullion but maybe they are stupid enough to send them through Heritage. Remember how Tom Cruise got the bad guys in a movie. The Client.
Sure, a $1 bottle of water would keep me from stealing a $50,000 coin. The thought of Federal jail or loss of a cushy Federal job with a great pension was never much of a deterent.
statistics. You would have to mail thousands of decoy packages.
Just posting that I got the numismatic crime email regarding the bars today. So the word is spreading.
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