@Justacommeman said:
I’ve been at this all night. It’s beem suggested I start with the US Postal Insector in my area. Studio City, CA 91604. However, I can’t find that local number. I can only find a general 877 number. When I call it it says call during normal business hours but it doesn’t state them and just hangs up.
m
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
@Justacommeman said:
I’ve been at this all night. It’s beem suggested I start with the US Postal Insector in my area. Studio City, CA 91604. However, I can’t find that local number. I can only find a general 877 number. When I call it it says call during normal business hours but it doesn’t state them and just hangs up.
m
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
A Filed a case number first over the phone. She was super helpful. Next step is online claim. This is tricky as these bars were paid with cash. She said I could use Enay comps. This worries me.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
I’ve been at this all night. It’s beem suggested I start with the US Postal Insector in my area. Studio City, CA 91604. However, I can’t find that local number. I can only find a general 877 number. When I call it it says call during normal business hours but it doesn’t state them and just hangs up.
m
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
A Filed a case number first over the phone. She was super helpful. Next step is online claim. This is tricky as these bars were paid with cash. She said I could use Enay comps. This worries me.
mark
Hopefully you have PMs or other correspondence indicating value/ price paid. If they're collectibles, you'll need to provide like she says, eBay listings or some other evidence of value over bullion content. A statement of value by a recognized expert will also help your cause.
@Justacommeman said:
I’ve been at this all night. It’s beem suggested I start with the US Postal Insector in my area. Studio City, CA 91604. However, I can’t find that local number. I can only find a general 877 number. When I call it it says call during normal business hours but it doesn’t state them and just hangs up.
m
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
A Filed a case number first over the phone. She was super helpful. Next step is online claim. This is tricky as these bars were paid with cash. She said I could use Enay comps. This worries me.
mark
If the contents was sold to the recipient, you can make up an invoice on excel (or other software) that has the values that you sold the items for listed on it. Any time that I have had to make an insurance claim, a copy of the invoice was all I needed to provide to prove the value. If they needed further proof of value, you could also use similar comps from APMEX or another large precious metals dealer.
And as others have stated before, always call them COLLECTIBLES when communicating with the USPS - DO NOT put bullion anywhere on the invoice or any documents to show proof of value. Bullion is not covered by regular USPS insurance, but collectible metals that have value above spot metal price are covered by insurance.
Make up a bill of sale. That's what I did on a registered claim and it worked fine for me. Upload all your pictures and any other supporting evidence of the value of your loss. Your biggest hurdle is going to be convincing them they are more than just bullion.
@Justacommeman said:
I’ve been at this all night. It’s beem suggested I start with the US Postal Insector in my area. Studio City, CA 91604. However, I can’t find that local number. I can only find a general 877 number. When I call it it says call during normal business hours but it doesn’t state them and just hangs up.
m
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
A Filed a case number first over the phone. She was super helpful. Next step is online claim. This is tricky as these bars were paid with cash. She said I could use Enay comps. This worries me.
The last I heard on my claim was the inspector was on the way to get my stolen coins for evidence. I was told by several that more than likely my coins would end up in a postal auction at some point in time. Anyone ever heard of postal auctions and coins being in them???
@FadeToBlack said:
Keep your head up, crap happens. USPS Inspectors are damn good at their jobs, if anybody can nail the perp, they can. Dunno about getting the stuff back, but there's a decent chance somebody ends up behind bars for a bit for this.
Remember, it's just metal ingots. They can be replaced (eventually) if not found. At the end of the day, don't stress yourself out to the point of getting sick over this, as hard as it may be. Material goods are just that, material goods.
@amwldcoin said:
The last I heard on my claim was the inspector was on the way to get my stolen coins for evidence. I was told by several that more than likely my coins would end up in a postal auction at some point in time. Anyone ever heard of postal auctions and coins being in them???
@FadeToBlack said:
Keep your head up, crap happens. USPS Inspectors are damn good at their jobs, if anybody can nail the perp, they can. Dunno about getting the stuff back, but there's a decent chance somebody ends up behind bars for a bit for this.
Remember, it's just metal ingots. They can be replaced (eventually) if not found. At the end of the day, don't stress yourself out to the point of getting sick over this, as hard as it may be. Material goods are just that, material goods.
Since they paid the claim, they own the goods when/if recovered. You'd think they'd contact the owner to see if they want to buy them back.
Unfortunately USPS problems with theft are way above average in So. California. We have had at least 3 packages in the past year with boxes being opened, items stolen, and boxes being re-taped with exactly the same type of shipping tape we use. They occurred out of Costa Mesa location, and we got no answers at all for any satisfaction. They are covering their own fellow workers and looking the other way. Fortunately, we have the Hugh Wood Insurance and covered our losses which ended up being several hundred thousand dollars in losses. We have now changed our PO Box to Newport Beach and do our inbound and outbound from that location with no problems since. Working with investigative divisions of USPS in finding the culprits will most likely be wasted time.
Specializing in coins with "thin film interference" & "sulfur impregnated surfaces" due to hanging out with "old bags" and "wrappers"
I had a box of nice uncirc wheats get opened and cherry picked. I wrote to federal inspectors, local post office, postmaster, local state and gov't officials. I spent 90 minutes with the FBI having coffee over pennies. They take this stuff seriously.
I'm in the area and will check at a couple of dealers for you and eBay. Sorry for the loss/frustration.
-Get on the horn with USPIS 877-876-2455
-File accurate, detailed Police Report
-Take accurate Notes of all phone calls, better try to communicate via email-its easier to keep track of
-File a claim with USPS and don't forget to ask for shipping charges also.
-Maybe say something to dealers local to you & the recipient.
-If you recover any or all of the items, make sure you notify USPIS and Police!! Can't tell you how important that step is.
If you took package to post office, did you tell counter clerk "hey I have a bunch of silver to send" kinda conversation? If you did DON'T ever say the contents of a package out loud-someone is always in ear shot. And consider shipping in smaller quantities, staggered in days, more hassle and cost but lesson the possible blow to a minimum.
I speak from experience. This is what the Inspector told me when I had to file my claim.
Again, sorry. I hope the community can help you locate!
@hchcoin said:
I had this same thing happen to a package that I received (not coins). The postal workers had opened the package, took 2 items out of 24 and then put bags of rice in the package and taped it back up. It took an extra month for me to finally get the package. I still remember the day it showed up because I thought it was a total loss.
You have a lot of people here pulling for you and lots of eyes looking out. Hopefully, you can get some positive closure.
Sounds like that package got intentionally misplaced somewhere in the postal facility allowing the perp time to go home and get some rice. Might at least have narrowed down the population of suspects by observing who regularly brought rice balls or Spam Musubi for lunch.
Man, I hate that for you Mark. I've been a victim and it sucks, my Harley was stolen in 1979. I was not a fun person to be around for a few weeks. My wife said it took 3 days for the veins in my head to go away.
I wish you you the best in finding them, the bars and the sobs that took them.
@amwldcoin said:
The last I heard on my claim was the inspector was on the way to get my stolen coins for evidence. I was told by several that more than likely my coins would end up in a postal auction at some point in time. Anyone ever heard of postal auctions and coins being in them???
They used to have them at 3 locations and I went to a few when in St Paul, MN. Then they were just at Atlanta and I went to one there. They do have big lots of 'stuff' and the coins / metals are occasionally a lot or 2. They are in those 1'x2' USPS boxes with handles and covered so you can not do much of an inventory. From what I have seen they are mostly those gold and silver plated tokens sold as investments, although I do remember seeing a couple body bags. The do try to return items, so I would think with specific loss claims, they would be returned (but not positive). Now it seems the auctions are held online.
@justacommeman some excellent advice has already been given here. Unfortunately, I have nothing additional to add other than to express my support and my sorrow. I feel especially bad, because it happened to one of the good guys, such as yourself. You have always been a great board member with a lot of positive things that you bring here. I attend a lot of shows and I surf the web, constantly, so I will keep my eyes and ears open. Please don't let this dampem your spirits or your passion for the coin game. Best of luck in your recovery efforts.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
Thanks for chipping in! My wife found a different 877 number and I was able to get a case open with them over the phone. Now I have to fill out the claim on line.
Martin that is the post office I shipped from. I called that number no less then 100 times during business hours that week. Never once pickled up
I went to the police and they were very sympathetic BUT this is Postal crime and they don’t investigate it. That’s what the US Postal
inspector is for. They are the police in this case.
This all is painful for me to type.
m
Rest assured that when they catch the culprit, they will be feeling the pain. It's not just a theft, it's a federal crime with the perpetrator wearing orange jumpsuits in the federal pokey!
Most likely an inside job at the PO. Thief knew what to look for. USPS will catch the crook, may take time.
Best help from forum members is for them to chip in searching ebay for the bars. OP's pics provide serial numbers.
And if one is discovered on ebay don't broadcast it here and alert the thief. Just quietly drop Mark a PM and he can turn it over to his investigators.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Just FYI, smaller POs don't have their own inspectors (I have no idea the size of that one). Busy POs almost never answer the phone, ask a smaller local PO for the direct number to a person at a bigger one.
It's been said but the website goes to the national guys. I would have called the Inspection office in DC.
Also FYI, local inspectors are afraid of the DC guys.
Mark, I know the time you have to spend dealing with this is not fun, but stay with it and hopefully your diligence will pay off. There are alot of eyes here that can watch for the bars and help.
I'm thinking of you and so sorry that this happened. Lots of good advice from the more experienced in here. Take care and I hope for a positive outcome for you.
Sorry to hear Mark. Can't offer much help except do not let this dampen your spirit! I suffered a theft at a very poor time. Sticking it out has paid off very well since.
Sorry, Mark - you did nothing wrong. I know that some of the posters are trying to be helpful with suggestions for future deals but the risk of theft is truly one of the downers of this hobby/field. And although some ways to ship may be better than others, none are foolproof and there is no way to avoid all risk. I have had problems with registered mail for instance. The workers at one post office were far more interested in my packages when I tried to use registered mail and not in a good way.
On the bright side, it is encouraging to see all the ways people have reached out to help. A lot of eyes and ears are looking and listening. And I also think it more likely that the thief will try to sell as-is, rather than melting them down.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
After my theft...hopefully a tip for other shippers. I have started oversizing my packaging on heavier items so they don't seem heavy for their size. Just be sure to package it so it passes the shake test and nothing will move!
@Toningintheblood said:
Unfortunately USPS problems with theft are way above average in So. California. We have had at least 3 packages in the past year with boxes being opened, items stolen, and boxes being re-taped with exactly the same type of shipping tape we use. They occurred out of Costa Mesa location, and we got no answers at all for any satisfaction. They are covering their own fellow workers and looking the other way. Fortunately, we have the Hugh Wood Insurance and covered our losses which ended up being several hundred thousand dollars in losses. We have now changed our PO Box to Newport Beach and do our inbound and outbound from that location with no problems since. Working with investigative divisions of USPS in finding the culprits will most likely be wasted time.
Sounds like the problem is high up and will continue until they are caught up with.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@SoCalBigMark said:
Can I assume you sent the 12 ounce Gold bar via the same method and had no problem?
You are 100% correct. I shipped them at the same time to the same address in a separate package. In retrospect I should of shipped the 2 oz bar with the 12 oz bar. The 12 oz gold bar made it no problem overnight . The five oz gold bar went to a different buyer. I shipped it at the same time and it made no problem as well
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@SoCalBigMark said:
Can I assume you sent the 12 ounce Gold bar via the same method and had no problem?
You are 100% correct. I shipped them at the same time to the same address in a separate package. In retrospect I should of shipped the 2 oz bar with the 12 oz bar. The 12 oz gold bar made it no problem overnight . The five oz gold bar went to a different buyer. I shipped it at the same time and it made no problem as well
mark
Well that might eliminate the PO that where you dropped off the packages at, if they opened up one of the packages and found valuables they might have also checked the second package to the same address.
If a package is damaged in transit are there any records that are kept to document that occurred. You wouldn't think that
some random person along the way would just re-pack it and send it on it's way. Maybe the PO inspector could give you more details on what tracking events occurred and when over the 8 day period.
@SoCalBigMark said:
Can I assume you sent the 12 ounce Gold bar via the same method and had no problem?
You are 100% correct. I shipped them at the same time to the same address in a separate package. In retrospect I should of shipped the 2 oz bar with the 12 oz bar. The 12 oz gold bar made it no problem overnight . The five oz gold bar went to a different buyer. I shipped it at the same time and it made no problem as well
mark
Well that might eliminate the PO that where you dropped off the packages at, if they opened up one of the packages and found valuables they might have also checked the second package to the same address.
If a package is damaged in transit are there any records that are kept to document that occurred. You wouldn't think that
some random person along the way would just re-pack it and send it on it's way. Maybe the PO inspector could give you more details on what tracking events occurred and when over the 8 day period.
I'm not so sure about that. Anyways the tracking showed one thing for 7 days. An additional stop in California. Then when it was delivered the second California stop dropped off
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@cardinal said:
So sorry to hear about this! Postal workers are not above reproach, so the investigation should point to them as a starting point.
Several years ago, I shipped an a gorgeous 1810 Classic Head Large Cent (PCGS MS64, Ex: NGC-MS65, Ex: Koshkarian) via USPS Overnight Express Mail with third-party insurance, from the East Coast to the West. The manager of the sorting station in Los Angeles remembered the package, and said that it had definitely been put on the truck for delivery to the Santa Monica Post Office -- a 15 minute ride -- but the package never showed up in Santa Monica! $100K coin lost in a matter of minutes! Fortunately, the insurance covered it in full, but I still would have preferred for the coin not to be lost. Ever since then, I've used Registered Mail, as each postal worker down the line has to sign it into his possession, and then sign it out when it is transferred to the next worker who signs in.
Hopefully, the contents of your package get located in short order!!
Sorry to hear about this theft and your coin.
Great advice and description of how Registered Mail works to stop this kind of theft.
@Justacommeman said:
You would think the older you get that one would quit making mistakes like this. I messed up.
I have to make hundreds of decisions a day at work. I get a lot of them right. It seems that I let my guard down on things by like this too often for my own liking.
I know I shouldn’t let this get me down but things like this take the joy out of collecting for me. I need to take a step back and see if I really want to keep doing this.
No matter what it’s not the end of the world but it’s still a bitter pill to swallow.
To all I appreciate the help and talking this out is somewhat therapeutic. Thank you
I still want to puke
m
You did not make mistake, you trusted them. Good luck; my heart is with you!
Why did they leave a couple of silver bars? I suspect that it was to throw suspicion off of a postal employee and onto the sender. Unless they just missed it and it was a hasty process done in a matter of seconds..
Wow, that's just awful, Mark. Hope they nab the bastards. Sorry you had to go through this... looks like you have solid advice from everyone above. God bless, -Michael
Why did they leave a couple of silver bars? I suspect that it was to throw suspicion off of a postal employee and onto the sender. Unless they just missed it and it was a hasty process done in a matter of seconds..
Believe your hunch is correct as to why they left a few bars
I did speak to the USPIS today
thank you!
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
You would think the older you get that one would quit making mistakes like this. I messed up.
I have to make hundreds of decisions a day at work. I get a lot of them right. It seems that I let my guard down on things by like this too often for my own liking.
I know I shouldn’t let this get me down but things like this take the joy out of collecting for me. I need to take a step back and see if I really want to keep doing this.
No matter what it’s not the end of the world but it’s still a bitter pill to swallow.
To all I appreciate the help and talking this out is somewhat therapeutic. Thank you
I still want to puke
m
My sympathies for the loss and for what you are experiencing. The time delay in delivery is certainly the fault of the postal system. By not having adequate procedures, protocols, and safeguards in place to provide for their promised overnight delivery they were negligent. The time delay allowed more opportunity for nefarious conduct so there you have your proximate cause. I think you might have the basis for a civil suit regardless of insurance. Worth having a lawyer in your jurisdiction at least research the issue.
Here is one of the legal principles implied from my above comments that you might want to discuss with an attorney in your jurisdiction. This on the subject of the duties relating to "Bailment" from lawyers.com (with you as the "bailor" and the postal service in the position of the "bailee"):
"In all bailment situations, the bailee has a minimum duty of care to ensure the safety of the property. A bailee who breaches or fails to uphold that duty can be held legally liable for damages. A bailee can also be held liable for conversion if he or she uses the property without the bailor's permission, or doesn't return the property to the bailor upon request.
A higher standard of care is imposed upon a paid bailee. There's a lower standard of care imposed upon a bailee in a gratuitous bailment. With a bailment agreement or contract, the parties can agree to hold the bailee free from liability.
The bailee's standard of care is determined based upon the purpose of the bailment and whether it's for the benefit of the bailee alone, the bailor alone, or for the benefit of both parties.
If the bailment is for the benefit of the bailee alone, then the bailee owes a duty of extraordinary care. If the bailment is for the benefit of both the bailee and the bailor, then the bailee owes a duty of reasonable or ordinary care. Reasonable care is care that a person of ordinary prudence would exercise in the same or similar circumstances. If the bailment is a gratuitous bailment and is for the benefit of only the bailor, then the bailee owes only a duty of slight care."
A package doesn't disappear for five to eight days and suddenly turn up in the mail again without the help of a postal employee. The problem is figuring out who it is. Getting the items back would be great. Getting compensated through insurance would be second best. As long as I was compensated I'm not sure what you would gain through a civil.suit.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@jwitten said:
Ouch. Big time Ouch. I suspected the buyer too until you said personal friend. I don't even know where I would start on this one. What percent of it was insured?
Even friends you thought were your friend will rip you off, I know.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
Did you open up a claim online yet? I've been told by my local post office and other postal employees that if you ever need to make an insurance claim (or any USPS inquiry), do it directly on the USPS website, NOT at your local post office. This not only helps expedite the process, but gets it in front of the right people that investigate these thefts / issues.
When you open the claim online, you can submit any documents you have as far as the contents (photos, invoices, etc.). After you submit the claim, you will most likely be contacted directly via phone by a US Postal Inspector for more details. They do not mess around and are very thorough and take these cases very seriously.
If the thief knew he/she could loose a finger or hand like punishment in some other countries crime would go WAY down.
100% Positive BST transactions
A Filed a case number first over the phone. She was super helpful. Next step is online claim. This is tricky as these bars were paid with cash. She said I could use Enay comps. This worries me.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Call the Inspection Service ASAP! They are the primary investigators of things like what happened to your shipment.
They are very good at what they do.
Pete
Hopefully you have PMs or other correspondence indicating value/ price paid. If they're collectibles, you'll need to provide like she says, eBay listings or some other evidence of value over bullion content. A statement of value by a recognized expert will also help your cause.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
If the contents was sold to the recipient, you can make up an invoice on excel (or other software) that has the values that you sold the items for listed on it. Any time that I have had to make an insurance claim, a copy of the invoice was all I needed to provide to prove the value. If they needed further proof of value, you could also use similar comps from APMEX or another large precious metals dealer.
And as others have stated before, always call them COLLECTIBLES when communicating with the USPS - DO NOT put bullion anywhere on the invoice or any documents to show proof of value. Bullion is not covered by regular USPS insurance, but collectible metals that have value above spot metal price are covered by insurance.
Somebody already beat me and posted it to the r/silverbugs subreddit.
Make up a bill of sale. That's what I did on a registered claim and it worked fine for me. Upload all your pictures and any other supporting evidence of the value of your loss. Your biggest hurdle is going to be convincing them they are more than just bullion.
The last I heard on my claim was the inspector was on the way to get my stolen coins for evidence. I was told by several that more than likely my coins would end up in a postal auction at some point in time. Anyone ever heard of postal auctions and coins being in them???
Since they paid the claim, they own the goods when/if recovered. You'd think they'd contact the owner to see if they want to buy them back.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Be sure to ask for your postage back.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
So would piano sales.
Unfortunately USPS problems with theft are way above average in So. California. We have had at least 3 packages in the past year with boxes being opened, items stolen, and boxes being re-taped with exactly the same type of shipping tape we use. They occurred out of Costa Mesa location, and we got no answers at all for any satisfaction. They are covering their own fellow workers and looking the other way. Fortunately, we have the Hugh Wood Insurance and covered our losses which ended up being several hundred thousand dollars in losses. We have now changed our PO Box to Newport Beach and do our inbound and outbound from that location with no problems since. Working with investigative divisions of USPS in finding the culprits will most likely be wasted time.
I remember a while back when they busted a postal worker at the Anaheim annex for theft. I still feel apprehension when my stuff gos sthrough there.
I had a box of nice uncirc wheats get opened and cherry picked. I wrote to federal inspectors, local post office, postmaster, local state and gov't officials. I spent 90 minutes with the FBI having coffee over pennies. They take this stuff seriously.
Good luck by the way and I'm terribly sorry this happened to you.
It took me quite awhile to get this LOL
I'm in the area and will check at a couple of dealers for you and eBay. Sorry for the loss/frustration.
-Get on the horn with USPIS 877-876-2455
-File accurate, detailed Police Report
-Take accurate Notes of all phone calls, better try to communicate via email-its easier to keep track of
-File a claim with USPS and don't forget to ask for shipping charges also.
-Maybe say something to dealers local to you & the recipient.
-If you recover any or all of the items, make sure you notify USPIS and Police!! Can't tell you how important that step is.
If you took package to post office, did you tell counter clerk "hey I have a bunch of silver to send" kinda conversation? If you did DON'T ever say the contents of a package out loud-someone is always in ear shot. And consider shipping in smaller quantities, staggered in days, more hassle and cost but lesson the possible blow to a minimum.
I speak from experience. This is what the Inspector told me when I had to file my claim.
Again, sorry. I hope the community can help you locate!
delete double post.
this is x'cellent advice:
"And consider shipping in smaller quantities, staggered in days, more hassle and cost but lesson the possible blow to a minimum."
Sounds like that package got intentionally misplaced somewhere in the postal facility allowing the perp time to go home and get some rice. Might at least have narrowed down the population of suspects by observing who regularly brought rice balls or Spam Musubi for lunch.
Man, I hate that for you Mark. I've been a victim and it sucks, my Harley was stolen in 1979. I was not a fun person to be around for a few weeks. My wife said it took 3 days for the veins in my head to go away.
I wish you you the best in finding them, the bars and the sobs that took them.
They used to have them at 3 locations and I went to a few when in St Paul, MN. Then they were just at Atlanta and I went to one there. They do have big lots of 'stuff' and the coins / metals are occasionally a lot or 2. They are in those 1'x2' USPS boxes with handles and covered so you can not do much of an inventory. From what I have seen they are mostly those gold and silver plated tokens sold as investments, although I do remember seeing a couple body bags. The do try to return items, so I would think with specific loss claims, they would be returned (but not positive). Now it seems the auctions are held online.
https://about.usps.com/doing-business/auctions/welcome.htm
@justacommeman some excellent advice has already been given here. Unfortunately, I have nothing additional to add other than to express my support and my sorrow. I feel especially bad, because it happened to one of the good guys, such as yourself. You have always been a great board member with a lot of positive things that you bring here. I attend a lot of shows and I surf the web, constantly, so I will keep my eyes and ears open. Please don't let this dampem your spirits or your passion for the coin game. Best of luck in your recovery efforts.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Rest assured that when they catch the culprit, they will be feeling the pain. It's not just a theft, it's a federal crime with the perpetrator wearing orange jumpsuits in the federal pokey!
Most likely an inside job at the PO. Thief knew what to look for. USPS will catch the crook, may take time.
Best help from forum members is for them to chip in searching ebay for the bars. OP's pics provide serial numbers.
And if one is discovered on ebay don't broadcast it here and alert the thief. Just quietly drop Mark a PM and he can turn it over to his investigators.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Just FYI, smaller POs don't have their own inspectors (I have no idea the size of that one). Busy POs almost never answer the phone, ask a smaller local PO for the direct number to a person at a bigger one.
It's been said but the website goes to the national guys. I would have called the Inspection office in DC.
Also FYI, local inspectors are afraid of the DC guys.
All I can say is I hope your made whole soon.
Mark, I know the time you have to spend dealing with this is not fun, but stay with it and hopefully your diligence will pay off. There are alot of eyes here that can watch for the bars and help.
Best, SH
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Mark,
I'm thinking of you and so sorry that this happened. Lots of good advice from the more experienced in here. Take care and I hope for a positive outcome for you.
Jeff
Sorry to hear Mark. Can't offer much help except do not let this dampen your spirit! I suffered a theft at a very poor time. Sticking it out has paid off very well since.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Sorry, Mark - you did nothing wrong. I know that some of the posters are trying to be helpful with suggestions for future deals but the risk of theft is truly one of the downers of this hobby/field. And although some ways to ship may be better than others, none are foolproof and there is no way to avoid all risk. I have had problems with registered mail for instance. The workers at one post office were far more interested in my packages when I tried to use registered mail and not in a good way.
On the bright side, it is encouraging to see all the ways people have reached out to help. A lot of eyes and ears are looking and listening. And I also think it more likely that the thief will try to sell as-is, rather than melting them down.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
After my theft...hopefully a tip for other shippers. I have started oversizing my packaging on heavier items so they don't seem heavy for their size. Just be sure to package it so it passes the shake test and nothing will move!
Sounds like the problem is high up and will continue until they are caught up with.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Can I assume you sent the 12 ounce Gold bar via the same method and had no problem?
edited
You are 100% correct. I shipped them at the same time to the same address in a separate package. In retrospect I should of shipped the 2 oz bar with the 12 oz bar. The 12 oz gold bar made it no problem overnight . The five oz gold bar went to a different buyer. I shipped it at the same time and it made no problem as well
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well that might eliminate the PO that where you dropped off the packages at, if they opened up one of the packages and found valuables they might have also checked the second package to the same address.
If a package is damaged in transit are there any records that are kept to document that occurred. You wouldn't think that
some random person along the way would just re-pack it and send it on it's way. Maybe the PO inspector could give you more details on what tracking events occurred and when over the 8 day period.
I'm not so sure about that. Anyways the tracking showed one thing for 7 days. An additional stop in California. Then when it was delivered the second California stop dropped off
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sorry to hear about this theft and your coin.
Great advice and description of how Registered Mail works to stop this kind of theft.
You did not make mistake, you trusted them. Good luck; my heart is with you!
Mark, I've only gotten through the first page so far but if nobody has told you get ahold of the Postal Inspectors Office ASAP...
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/phoneus.aspx#
Why did they leave a couple of silver bars? I suspect that it was to throw suspicion off of a postal employee and onto the sender. Unless they just missed it and it was a hasty process done in a matter of seconds..
This is awful and looks pre-meditated.
Good luck getting to the bottom of this @Justacommeman. Thanks to everyone helping with this.
Wow, that's just awful, Mark. Hope they nab the bastards. Sorry you had to go through this... looks like you have solid advice from everyone above. God bless, -Michael
Believe your hunch is correct as to why they left a few bars
I did speak to the USPIS today
thank you!
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is one of the legal principles implied from my above comments that you might want to discuss with an attorney in your jurisdiction. This on the subject of the duties relating to "Bailment" from lawyers.com (with you as the "bailor" and the postal service in the position of the "bailee"):
"In all bailment situations, the bailee has a minimum duty of care to ensure the safety of the property. A bailee who breaches or fails to uphold that duty can be held legally liable for damages. A bailee can also be held liable for conversion if he or she uses the property without the bailor's permission, or doesn't return the property to the bailor upon request.
A higher standard of care is imposed upon a paid bailee. There's a lower standard of care imposed upon a bailee in a gratuitous bailment. With a bailment agreement or contract, the parties can agree to hold the bailee free from liability.
The bailee's standard of care is determined based upon the purpose of the bailment and whether it's for the benefit of the bailee alone, the bailor alone, or for the benefit of both parties.
If the bailment is for the benefit of the bailee alone, then the bailee owes a duty of extraordinary care. If the bailment is for the benefit of both the bailee and the bailor, then the bailee owes a duty of reasonable or ordinary care. Reasonable care is care that a person of ordinary prudence would exercise in the same or similar circumstances. If the bailment is a gratuitous bailment and is for the benefit of only the bailor, then the bailee owes only a duty of slight care."
https://lawyers.com/legal-info/business-law/business-law-basics/bailment-leaving-your-belongings-behind.html
A package doesn't disappear for five to eight days and suddenly turn up in the mail again without the help of a postal employee. The problem is figuring out who it is. Getting the items back would be great. Getting compensated through insurance would be second best. As long as I was compensated I'm not sure what you would gain through a civil.suit.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Even friends you thought were your friend will rip you off, I know.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Have the weights checked for fingerprints.
Duh me! Already mentioned so...........I 2nd this.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection