Toned 1897-S $20
jwitten
Posts: 5,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is the first toned $20 I've found. Seems like I mainly find toned $2 1/2 coins. I am pretty sure it would grade as cleaned, so I doubt I send it in for grading. I still thought it had a nice look though. I took pictures in different lighting, to show it better. 
3
Comments
It's a fake, right?
bob
Small pox
Please let us know what you see.
agree, cleaned.
It looks genuine to me, but it has definitely been fooled with. Metal has been moved in the fields which would preclude a straight grade. I also think that the toning you see is AT. Even if it is not AT, I don’t find it attractive.
I know that you love this stuff, but there are a lot of gold collectors who don’t. I have met gold collectors who refuse to buy gold pieces with copper spots, even light copper spots. I’ve not that fussy, but I would not consider buying some of the items that you have posted, unless I could flip them for their melt value.
Anyone can collect what they like. I am simply advising you that paying premiums for this material with the expectation that you will be able to exit with all of your money might be an unwise assumption.
I understand you and some others do not like toned gold, but there are some of us who do. The fact that there are so few pieces out there make it attractive to me. I think a coin with one or two copper spots is in a different ballpark than a coin with purple toning along the whole rim, or colorful toning like my avatar picture. I've paid some heavy premiums for a few of my coins (got this one for a bit over gold price though), and I have flipped many of them for a decent profit.. some even twice what I paid, even with the big premium I paid myself.
Luster is attractive on gold coins, some find the "dirty" and light toning that the copper and impurities impart to a coin when reacted; but those look ugly, like lipstick on the proverbial pig. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!
I don't mind a little tone or copper spots if they aren't too distracting.
My YouTube Channel
Some coppery toning mixed with the gold can be absolutely beautiful, but the luster has be “all there” too.
Here is a $2 1/2 with the same look... just better condition. Pcgs price guide puts it at $355, and most sell under that. This one sold for $700 to a very happy buyer.
I agree 100% with Mr. Bill and I've told you the same thing. These coins made up a big part of the conservation business a decade ago - no one wanted them. Then some dealers pushed the "original dirty gold" myth and the things became desirable. IMO, it is a fad that will eventually swing back, just as toning has done over the decades.
That said, no one has a right to tell anyone what looks good, what to collect, and how much to pay. So enjoy! The fact that you are able to sell these things at a profit only proves I'm an idiot. BTW, I gave up trying to educate one of our customers who has deep pockets about buying "problem" coins. He is making a ton of money buying them, slabbing them with us, and selling them for a profit! it's good for business.
PS I'm still going to make some "dirty gold" to post (as I promised) just to make a point. Just waiting for an ex-jewelry coin to play with.
Can you let me know why you think so? I would like to return it if so (though I don't think it is).
That's a pretty coin!
My YouTube Channel
Very apropos if I may say so, Insider as you are one of the most knowledgeable experts here and elsewhere, I'm not sure if you are still dealing coins, but I'm sure you have a taste for the very best, a numismatic connoisseur as it were.
Roll Eyes and LOL
When I was a very small child I would come down stairs in my sleepers at bedtime to say goodnight to my mom and dad who were entertaining gusts. My father would ask me "Who is the handsomest man in the world?" I would say, "You are!" to the delight of his guests and a guaranteed 25c for my "Piggy."
So Tom, where do I send your quarter?
how did this one turn out for you ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liberty-Head-1853-gold-2-50-/183106373140?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=EGomZuW7UXHEQ3QxapCwh1t8izI%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&rmvSB=true
NOT counterfeit.
Not pretty.
Not for me.
To each his own though.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I like gold... even some with copper spots.... if it is gold, I like it.... However, (and this is likely more myth than fact), when I see that color on gold, I am reminded of the stories I have heard about iodine tarnish on gold... Now, this is one I have never tried, so I do not know if it is true or not.... I should try it one day, though I am pretty protective of my gold
... Silver is much more common and easy to experiment with. Cheers, RickO
Numbers in the date don't seem right. 1 is too short and stubby and 7 looks off.
bob
Just sold it for $1,580
Congratulations, JWitten; you certainly have a sharp eye for the unique in gold coins.
They say there is a woman for every man...who can argue with your success!
I really like toned gold and I don't mind a few small copper spots.
But, I don't like coins with dull luster that have been fooled with and cleaned or polished.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Did you forget to add beat up and circulated?
If it's just about having a $20 gold piece with toning you would have been better off just buying a bottle of iodine. Don't be fooled in thinking everything blue & red is just from leather coin purse storage. Most of the red's and blues seen on gold are from the coin being exposed to iodine. Old gold generally doesn't tone that way on it's own like some of the modern AGE or $5 commems issues. Now I have seen some gold pull peripheral toning from the NGC old no line soap bar holder labels. Beyond that when it comes to toned gold it's from more so from planchet mixture copper content. If you look at some MS67 $10 Indians with that deep orange hue, that's as toned as gold gets unless other foreign elements are at play.
Agree to disagree. And thankfully NGC and PCGS disagree with that as well.
Yes unfortunately it seems to be getting into plastic more often then in the body bag days.
I don’t have an opinion on the material being discussed, but I like that the OP can think for himself and doesn’t require the approval of the collecting majority. Collecting trends can be so monkey see, monkey do.
It’s kind of refreshing actually.