1818 LC Counterfeit... China or Contemporary?
CascadeChris
Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭✭✭
Came across this recently. Appears to be a die struck counterfeit. My question is, is it a known (or unknown) contemporary or modern Chinese? Copper isn't really my thing but I can spot counterfeits of most series with ease.
The more you VAM..
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At first I thought it was a contemporary struck copy......... but
There seams to be a "hole" under the "8" in the date. Do you have this in hand?
If so can you post a pic?
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Edit to add back in......It appears to me a contemporary electrotype looking at the close ups you have provided
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Looks like a modern counterfeit.
Head style is all wrong for the date, and is more of the early 1830s style. Totally wrong for 1818.
I believe there is a contemporary counterfeit of 1818 (might be another early Matron Head date, not sure) that is spectacularly crude and quite collectable.
A modern struck counterfeit, likely from China.
Look closely at the very tiny fuzzy looking pimples on the relief. This is a characteristic that is common to most modern Chinese fakes.
Looks like one of the better Chinese fakes. Does that repaired in the die E of ONE appear on anything genuine?
hhhhhuuuuuuummmm sure looks like "riberty" to me.
Way modern.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Indeed it looks recently made.
My YouTube Channel
i don't have my books anymore but the images i looked at for newcombs 1-10 for 1818, i didn't see that type of broken letter but am familiar with these variances on authentic large cents.
i concur for modern fake.
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Definitely a modern Chinese counterfeit. The giveaway on these is the crude date digits. Compare the style of the date digits, especially the first '1', to a genuine coin, and you will see the differences quickly. These are available for sale for every date in the large cent series, as well as several versions of the non-existent 1815.
There have been a number of struck fakes using the 1833 N-5 as the source coin with different dates, reported at least back to 2008.
Examples here are an “1816” and “1824”:
Modern fake.
Burfle23 is correct & in my opinion this is another 1833 N-5
that was converted to a crudely done 1818.
The Captain asked if the E of ONE appears anyware. In my opinion
it is on the 1833 N-5, also the letters of LIBERTY have some doubling,
as does this coin. They must have done a bit of smoothing
because there was a die crack extending through the rev. and some
remnants are still showing where it crossed some of the letters.
Looking at the stars, every one points to the same point as on the 1833
N-5. , which also has a stray 8 in the (dare I say ) dentils beneath the date.
R.I.P. Bear
The ONE shows the strange broken E's and the O leans left.
R.I.P. Bear
That heavy dot at the base of the T in CENT is another giveaway marker for the N-5.
even though the OP coin is a fake, wouldn't be too shabby in a low cost Dansco.
Yeah, I know, that would support and encourage the counterfeiters. Just saying
I own an "1829" in my odd collection:
it would support them (a statement i've made and supported) but at the same time a nice type set dansco with counterfeits with this quality or higher at a show/friends house etc would go miles.
i've appreciated it the very few times dealers had counterfeits at shows and were willing to share/discuss them.
a few times i've put fakes in with a handful of coins just to see what various people would say, if anything. no malicious intent on my part and it usually sparked a quick and educational conversation if i mentioned the bogus coin(s).
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I have purchased some of mine from sellers and dealers who didn't realize they were fakes and have loaned them for counterfeit detection seminars as well as educational displays at Early American Coppers Conventions. The ones that get the most interest are the examples in TPG holders, "coins" that passed collectors, dealers and TPG's on occasion.
I would say a modern fake... likely Chinese in origin.... Just to support the above evaluations.... I have two fake coins... I purchased them knowing they were not authentic... There is an internet site that lists fake Morgans with PUPs...I forget the name right now... (happens a lot lately
).... Cheers, RickO
Another version, 1819 based on the 1833 N-5 listed on eBay now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1819-Small-Date-Liberty-Matron-Head-Large-Cent-Penny-Old-US-Coin-NR-P1R-XX097/202270461927?hash=item2f18424fe7:g:lJoAAOSwn35ato62
It is decidedly a modern counterfeit. It has the fake toning that you often seen on the Chinese product. It is sharper than most all of the contemporary counterfeits I have seen, but as the others have noted, some of the details are wrong.
I must say that all of this stuff is very scary, and it does not bode well for the hobby. Some of the problems that we can note on a “Mint State” example fade when an element of wear, “improper cleaning” and retoning is added. That’s why this stuff has made it into TPG holders at an alarming rate.
I have seen much better than these since late 2015; die struck examples using genuine source coins to make the dies, and many initially made it into holders. The community of collectors, dealers and TPG's have worked together to get info out to recognize the fakes and the level of scrutiny has picked up significantly, resulting in far fewer going undetected at the TPG's and in major dealer inventory, but mistakes can still happen. I truly believe the advice given to me a long time ago- "collect what you know, know what you collect"! Most of these can be detected in comparison to known varieties, just need to have the info/ knowledge available, part of the reason I have begun posting my Coin Week articles on the subject in this forum.
1797 "S-136":
Best, Jack
Taken from a known Chinese counterfeit producer, note the 'E' in ONE, similar characteristics.
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