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The Eliasberg 1933 Double Eagle

BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Eliasberg forfeited his specimen to the Government in 1952.

Did he ever say how he obtained it?

Pete

"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon

Comments

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't recall ever hearing that.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Zoins> @Zoins said:

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    Eliasberg forfeited his specimen to the Government in 1952.

    Did he ever say how he obtained it?

    He purchased it from Pennsylvania coin dealer Ira S. Reed in 1944, who purchased it from Israel Switt.

    Thanks Zoins. Ira Switt's name comes up again.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2018 1:29PM

    Here's some information regarding this trail:

    Reed to Eliasberg sale - Steve Roach article

    https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2016/03/what-makes-the-1933-double-eagle-so-facinating.all.html

    Even famed collector Louis Eliasberg Sr. turned in his 1933 double eagle in 1952. He had purchased it in 1944 from dealer Ira Reed and hoped that the Mint would return it to maintain the completeness of his U.S. gold coin collection, but the Mint retained Eliasberg’s coin.

    Switt to Reed sale - Israel Switt affidavit

    http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/government_sues_itself_in_1933_20_dispute

    My first recollection of having bought and sold 1933 double eagle gold coins was about the beginning of February 1937. This gold coin I received in a collection with other coins, which I purchased under circumstances which I do not remember at this time.

    This coin I sold to James G. Macallister and also sold Mr. Macallister during the ensuing months of 1937, four similar coins, a total of five. I also sold two of these coins to Ira Reed, 37 S. 18th St., Philadelphia, and two more of the same type of coins to Abe Kosoff, [Kosoff] now located at 50th & Madison Avenue, New York City. These sales to Kosoff and Reed were two or more years after my sales to Macallister.

    These nine coins I distinctly recall having sold but I do not remember when, where or from whom I purchased them, as they were received by me in collections with other coins at different times.

    I do not have any of these coins in my possession or under my control at this time.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    @Zoins said:

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    Eliasberg forfeited his specimen to the Government in 1952.

    Did he ever say how he obtained it?

    He purchased it from Pennsylvania coin dealer Ira S. Reed in 1944, who purchased it from Israel Switt.

    Thanks Zoins. Ira Switt's name comes up again.

    Pete

    I believe all the coins were traced to Switt.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2018 1:12PM

    In reading Israel Switt's affidavit, it's interesting that he wrote he received the 1933 DEs from a collector in 1937, not from the US Mint in a coin-for-coin exchange.

    Israel Switt wrote:
    My first recollection of having bought and sold 1933 double eagle gold coins was about the beginning of February 1937. This gold coin I received in a collection with other coins, which I purchased under circumstances which I do not remember at this time.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reads like he is covering his butt. Politicians do this under oath...Sorry, I don't recall, I can't remember, ah, I was baking cookies for my daughter. etc

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2018 1:35PM

    @Insider2 said:
    Reads like he is covering his butt. Politicians do this under oath...Sorry, I don't recall, I can't remember, ah, I was baking cookies for my daughter. etc

    But he did write the coins were purchased in about February 1937. I'm surprised he would provide a date like that. Details like this are often left out in other situations.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2018 1:43PM

    David Tripp, in his book "Illegal Tender: Gold, Greed, and the Mystery of the Lost 1933 Double Eagle", indicates that Ira S. Reed sold the coin to Eliasberg on April 15, 1944 for $1,000.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • batumibatumi Posts: 823 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    David Tripp, in his book "Illegal Tender: Gold, Greed, and the Mystery of the Lost 1933 Double Eagle", indicates that Ira S. Reed sold the coin to Eliasberg on April 15, 1944 for $1,000A

    After writing an interesting book, I am troubled that David Tripp sided with the government in its case recently about the ten 1933 double eagles.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    The entire 1933 Double Eagle story is a fiasco and ridiculous.... That includes the last case .... Further, there are some still out there.... just as the fabled 1964D Peace Dollar....Those that have them are not talking...Rightly so... Cheers, RickO

    Would You? Of course not! There probably are some out there. If the Secret Service got wind of one they would tear your house off its' foundation to find it.

    Then if they didn't, they would walk away and say "sorry".

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • batumibatumi Posts: 823 ✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    The entire 1933 Double Eagle story is a fiasco and ridiculous.... That includes the last case .... Further, there are some still out there.... just as the fabled 1964D Peace Dollar....Those that have them are not talking...Rightly so... Cheers, RickO

    I agree. An old time dealer whom I used to deal with a lot years ago- regretfully,he has passed on, tod me that there are definitely 1964D Peace Dollars,and he had seen one. He had fifty years in the coin business, and I am sure he wasn't bs'ing. I never pressed him for some of the skinny, as I was early into my coin gig-a twentysomething at the time-and figured the details were none of my business though I was always grateful for information. I look back often, and wish I would have at least asked some of the whats, whens, and wheres as he trusted me,and I him. I would sell one of those abroad, and a 1933 twenty, if I was so fortunate to ever have one, and wished to sell.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2018 10:01AM

    :'(

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    The entire 1933 Double Eagle story is a fiasco and ridiculous.... That includes the last case .... Further, there are some still out there.... just as the fabled 1964D Peace Dollar....Those that have them are not talking...Rightly so... Cheers, RickO

    Talking about it or, a show and tell, would most definitely be problematic

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • batumibatumi Posts: 823 ✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    :'(

    Gov't fubar in action for the past 85 years, and continuing. Onward full speed through the fog.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for posting the Eliasberg letter, Ron.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's interesting that the Eliasberg specimen destruction letter was at the instruction of the Acting Director of the Mint.

    Who was leading the location and destruction effort? We hear of the Secret Service a lot but were they just retrieving the coins at the instruction of the Mint or the Department of the Treasury?

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Mint Bureau performed all the roll-out and melting.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018 7:14PM

    Multiple parties were involved in the overall search and destroy effort like the Mint and the Secret Service, but who was leading the overall efforts?

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stories about great collectors are as significant as stories about great coins. And you can find these stories here on this forum.

    OINK

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting information !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: "Multiple parties were involved in the overall search and destroy effort like the Mint and the Secret Service, but who was leading the overall efforts?"

    The USSS was part of Treasury at that time and Treasury was the plaintiff. The Mint Bureau was also part of Treasury and were the initial complainant. Basically the same as for the Langboard case.

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