1921 Peace Dollars. I didn't get anywhere near the affirmation
Weiss
Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭✭✭
I needed on the image of my '21 Peace in @Paradisefound 's recent 1921 peace dollar thread.
I'm nothing without the approval and jealously of people I've never met in person. Love me.
Got one you'd like to share?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
23
Comments
Oh gosh! I ....LOVE....it, Weiss. I mean LOOOOVVVVEEEE the damn thing.
You should offer it to me for being so effusive and supporting as the second post in your thread.
At least.
Wait! Is that only a GREEN bean?
Hmmmmm.....
Her hair is almost as nice as yours Weiss
Oh and great coin/holder/ sticker
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Amazing coin. I wonder if there is a reason the reverse is not shown. Is it also amazing?
Let's not be ridiculous.
Totally frood, Dude!
Very nice looking Peace.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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It's really gold. The color balance is off on the photo. Plus it's nearly upright in the the holder! Think of the time it took the Elves to do that!
Elves has left the building.
That coin is Sweet!
That is a nice '21
Collector, occasional seller
Nice bubbly cheeky shiny CAC'd beauty.
I'm not going to take the bait by gushing up to you, either.
Pete
Nice one, lets see the reverse.
I have not seen anything that nice and I think it is an honest 66. I love it!!!
She is hot.
OK, I guess.......
For a widget.
Actually, nice strike & nice lusterous look. What’s not to like??
But does it have a reverse?
I'll take the fatty all day long before that MS-66 posted above.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Weiss, I have been jealous of that coin for 10 years. HAMMERED full strike!!!
She's definitely cute!
HAPPY COLLECTING
Thanks, everyone.
And LOL to whomever flagged that image
--Severian the Lame
I mentioned to some other collectors that pieces like this take on special importance for box of 20 collectors. For me at least. The pieces in my collection have to be able to convey as much substance as they can because real estate is so valuable in the set.
It's great that it is a 1921 peace--my favorite year of one of my favorite US issues. It's great that it's a beautiful example, with white satin surfaces that really pop against the white slab. But being in a pristine fatty slab, with a CAC sticker, adds extra facets to this gem that a more modern slabbed piece just wouldn't have. It's not just a pretty 1921 peace--it's a piece of our numismatic history going back 30 years. Plus it holds special significance to me, because I bought it from my dealer of about 30 years before he retired a few years back. At the time it was a fortune to me.
Further, and check my math here: Out of about 1600 MS65 and above 1921 Peace dollars graded by PCGS, and another 1370 by NGC (so about 3000 total), CAC has only green bean'd 227 MS65s. Another 37 MS66s, and a single MS67. They've never gold bean'd a 65 or anything higher.
So about a 9% CAC rate? I don't know how many of those are rattlers or fatties. But I suspect it's in the tens rather than the hundreds.
--Severian the Lame
A TRULY STUNNING EXAMPLE!
EPIC coin! I need one of those myself.
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I shared photos of this a while back, it resides in an old no-line fatty 63 holder and just got blessed with a green foil sticker.
The coin AllCoinsRule posted is not, in my opinion, anywhere close to MS-66. Far too many nicks and dings for that. It's also not especially attractive, which does not alter the "grade" but reduces it's desirability.
As for detail, it's above average, but not exceptional.
So what does the reverse look like?
2nd
Perhaps the amazing strike has made a 66 grade necessary in order to place a value on the piece over the beautiful (OBVERSE ONLY?) coin the OP posted.
Great coin in a great holder. Actually gets me thinking again about putting together a box of 20.
Plot twist, the reverse is also heads. Magicians coin.
Seriously great strike.
Eagle with Sun rays behind it
--Severian the Lame
? Huh? 1) The detail is not amazing - only above average. 2) grading is independent o any presumed 'value.' Doing otherwise creates a blatant conflict of interest.
Ok, ok. Here's the reverse
--Severian the Lame
Nice
LOL, that's a hard one to top. I've been told that the reverse of a coin only counts for between 35 to 40 percent of the grade and cannot raise it. True or not, now that I've seen it (thanks) I should have NEVER shown the other side. NCS should have fixed that one for you.
As for your point 1) That is a super strike on a 1921, one of the best I've seen. Nevertheless, I prefer the weak obverse and outstanding eye appeal of the OP's coin (ignoring the reverse).
Point 2) Unfortunately, to the detriment of an easy to understand and use - precise and consistent grading system, A COINS VALUE is what "commercial" grading is all about. Therefore a coins value is not independent of its grade. Furthermore, I do not see where a conflict of interest entered this grading discussion. We are writing about grading and not crooks!
Reverse is great. Love that random Root Beer color toning on a pastel white Peace Dollar.
I like the reverse, as well. Those aren’t carbon spots but rather areas of natural caramel colored toning.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The 1921 turns 100 years old in 3 years.
This one was slabbed 30 years ago--10 years before NCS even existed. At a time when grading was arguably much tougher than today, this piece got a "65". And in April of 2015, CAC reiterated. Don't get me wrong: I'd have loved the coin to come back with a gold bean. But that has never happened on a 65 or above '21 peace.
The creamy white satin surfaces on the reverse match those on the obverse. The "rootbeer" toning (I like that, @dogwood !) floats above the luster and I LOVE it.
Dipped white MS 1921 peace dollars aren't just readily available. I'd say they are the norm. Finding one with unquestionably original skin is challenging. Front and back, this is a stellar example of what a wholly original 100-year old coin should look like.
--Severian the Lame
That is a real beauty .... I have been looking at 1921 Peace dollars for the past year.... and that one really stands out. Congratulations on a very nice specimen....Cheers, RickO
Thanks for posting this beautiful 21 Peace. My spirit is lifted ! I'm now ready to go to my dreadful job with purpose. I need to accumulate enough spare cash to be able to acquire something like that. A 21 that will renew my soul .
RE: "As for your point 1) That is a super strike on a 1921, one of the best I've seen. Nevertheless, I prefer the weak obverse and outstanding eye appeal of the OP's coin (ignoring the reverse)."
Go read my book on Peace dollars and look at the photos. The detail is only above average.
RE: "Point 2) Unfortunately, to the detriment of an easy to understand and use - precise and consistent grading system, A COINS VALUE is what "commercial" grading is all about. Therefore a coins value is not independent of its grade. Furthermore, I do not see where a conflict of interest entered this grading discussion. We are writing about grading and not crooks!"
Value is immaterial and must have no influence when a coin is being graded. Anything else introduces assumptions about market factors entirely out of the control or knowledge of a grader. Simply put: value and condition are entirely separate, and cannot be objectively assessed simultaneously.
Roger said:
"Value is immaterial and must have no influence when a coin is being graded. Anything else introduces assumptions about market factors entirely out of the control or knowledge of a grader. Simply put: value and condition are entirely separate, and cannot be objectively assessed simultaneously."
Absolutely. This should not be construed in any other way.
Pete
That is the most well struck example I have ever seen for a 21 Peace$. Congrats.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I don't care what we call them, IMO, they are detracting. They probably didn't affect the grade as the coin is a gem and the floating, root beer colorization is on the reverse.
Just writing about strike and nothing else, above average, well struck, and super are all degrees of TRY TO FIND ANOTHER with that amount of hair detail.
You and I agree 100%. You have just explained one of the requisites I required in the "Technical Grading System we used for internal records and beginning grading classes. Technical grading has no reflection on the commercial coin market or the way coins have been graded for three decades!!!! Fortunately, a while back, the experts at the TPGS's figured out you could still grade a coin impaired in some way as we did in the 1970's when TRUE technical grading was developed. IN THE REAL WORLD, a coin's value is a major factor used by dealers and professional coin graders. I'm taking the time to respond in depth because to deny this fact is posting misinformation. That IS NOT an opinion.
The guy who wrote the book says the strike of your coin is only above average. Therefore, it should be very easy to find many examples with this amount of detail. They should be all over the place.
See my comments above. What SHOULD BE and WHAT IS are two different things. There SHOULD BE a Santa Clause in Numismatics.
What do you know? Perhaps you should read the aforementioned book.
Insider2 said: "See my comments above. What SHOULD BE and WHAT IS are two different things. There SHOULD BE a Santa Clause in Numismatics".
Really now. I'm not Scrooge, but I can tell you Santa doesn't hang around here.
Pete
You made my point!
Insider 2....what I know is what I said, it's the best struck example I have ever seen of this particular coin. I feel I know better as to what I have seen than you and that's what I know.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Read the thread, I AGREED WITH YOU. It's other posters who think it is just about average.
@Weiss - that 1921 is the sharpest I've seen, it's well struck on both sides. I don't see any flatness in the eagle breast feathers, which is normally seen in most examples. I humbly submit my MS-64 1921, which I think is decent but nowhere near the OP's coin strikewise. What looks like a scratch on the cheek is a small planchet flaw.
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