Unreasonable buyer expectations on eBay: from the Seller's Point of View
airplanenut
Posts: 22,222 ✭✭✭✭✭
There have been a few threads recently from eBay buyers looking for advice on returning eBay items that were somehow not as described/expected. As I read the threads, it's clear that some people replied from the angle of a buyer and others from a seller. I'm not commenting on the legitimacy of the issues brought up in those threads, but I just had a good one come up that shows some of what sellers get to deal with. Most buyers are great. Others get really annoying really quickly. I think this is a particularly good case because admittedly I screwed up right at the start (yup, I'm human), so it changed the dynamic a little bit about how I approached reaching a solution. I'll put some comments with my thoughts between the emails.
Title: MERCURY DIME 6-COIN LOT: 1919-S, 1920-S, 1927-S, 1927-D, 1931-S, 1942
Description: A lot of 6 coins as shown. Some coins have problems such as cleaning.
Sale price: $47 plus $3.75 shipping
First thing: I screwed up the title (an honest mistake). That 27-D is a 29-D, and the listing was over when I caught it. As soon as I did--and before the buyer paid--I emailed the buyer:
Hi,
I only just noticed that the coin in the lower right is a 1929-D, not a 1927-D as stated in the title. The photographs are correct and show the coins you will received, but there is a mistake in the title. If this changes your desire to purchase this item, please let me know. If you still wish to purchase this lot, that is, of course, not a problem. I just wanted you to know about the typo.
Thanks,
Hi Jeremy, thanks for the heads up. That is a big difference (27D vs 29D). I like the condition of most of the coins so I will go ahead and purchase. Perhaps you'd consider reimbursing shipping cost due to the mixup. Thanks,
That seems perfectly reasonable. You should see the refund in PayPal, and the coins will be on their way Monday.
Great Jeremy. Much appreciated.
Thoughts: Some buyers look at the pictures only, some are careful about reading everything. My goal here was to make sure the buyer was aware of the mistake before he paid. I took his email as an agreement that all is well.
Fast forward when the item is delivered:
Jeremy/JKCoins, I received my order for the Mercury Dime 6-Coin Lot (1919-S, 1920-S, 1927-S, 1929-D, 1931-S and 1942P). Your note on the receipt asked that I let you know if I didn't feel I received 5-Star Service so you could "make it right" before I left eBay feedback. While I'm satisfied with 4 of the 6 coins, 2 of the coins appear severely "doctored." The 1920-S appears to have been grinded down and silver painted to create a like new shine while it is clearly in an "about good (AG)" condition. The 1919-S, while containing details of a "very fine (VF)" coin has several "pit and bubble" marks on both the obverse and reverse sides showing, it too, has been doctored with silver paint at some point. I was quite surprised to receive coins in this shape from a reputable eBayer like JKCoins. Again, I'm happy with 4 of the coins, but disappointed/unsatisfied with the two coins and the overall JKCoins eBay experience. I await your response before providing eBay feedback. Thx,
Thoughts: The 20-S looks pretty bad in the photo, and so does the 19-S. In fact, they look, to me, pretty much exactly how he describes them. I don't agree with his comments on their being painted, but the surfaces aren't good. I don't proclaim to only sell great (high-end) coins, rather I describe (through text and photos) what I have. I'm not the judge about what someone should collect, and I'm happy to provide items for a wide range of buyers. In this case, the damage wasn't described in text but is easy to see in the photos. I mentioned the cleaning specifically because that's harder to see in photos.
Hi,
Thank you for your email. My goal is always to accurately describe the coins I sell through a combination of text descriptions and photographs. This is not to say that I don't sell problem coins, but rather if there are issues, I do my best to make them known. In this case, I feel that I can see the issues you are describing in the photographs, however, it is still my goal to make things right by you. With that in mind, what can I do to earn your satisfaction?
Thank you,
Thoughts: His previous request of the shipping refund was reasonable, and I figured that would continue. I didn't want to send an offer he would find insulting, especially in light of the fact that I didn't think I was wrong on these coins. However, having made a mistake earlier, I wanted to err on the side of the customer.
Thanks for your response Jeremy. I would be satisfied if you could replace the 19-S and 20-S with like grades. Those grades would be a "Very Fine" for the 19-S and a "Good" for the 20-S. I'd be happy to provide 5-star feedback and a good writeup for this or a similar remedy. Thanks again,
Thoughts: My letting him make a suggestion backfired. He now wants problem-free examples of coins that were clearly problem coins, and he even wants on upgrade on the 20-S.
Hi,
Unfortunately, every item I sell is on consignment, and I do not maintain an inventory from which I can pull replacements. As these two coins are described and photographed as coins that have problems, I am unable to replace them with problem-free examples. I can offer to accept the full lot back as a return for a refund, or if you would prefer, I can offer a $10 refund with no coins needing to be returned.
Thank you,
Thoughts: With hindsight, just suggesting the return would have been better, but I wasn't expecting the replacement suggestion.
Understand Jeremy. I will appreciate and be satisfied with the $10 refund. Thanks,
Thoughts: Good, now this problem has gone away.
I don't know what of this was the result of my initial screw-up, though as I stated before, it's my opinion that when an agreement was reached on that particular issue, everything is square. I still don't know what exactly led to the idea that every item would be perfect when the pictures obviously show otherwise. At best it was a buyer having unreasonable expectations. In the end, I don't think any remedy was due for the claim the buyer made, but I wanted it to go away, and it wasn't worth the money to fight the buyer (I do think I would have won a SNAD had one been filed). That said, should the buyer ever want any other items I'm selling, he's blocked, so hopefully the $10 was worth it.
Comments
High maintenance buyer, but I'd be thankful it took just $10 to resolve the matter. Hopefully, he leaves you the positive feedback and "nice write up" he referred to in his earlier email. I don't like the way he used your 5-star feedback invitation as leverage against you. had you not added that note in this case, he may not have bothered contacting you. In this case, at least, I would have forgone that note.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
$10 refund? how much did they pay for the lot?
if you list dates in title, they should follow location in picture...
From a buyers perspective (I am the one that had the issue with the gold coin) you did everything right. Good pictures, good customer service, and offered solutions. Pretty much everything the seller of the gold coin did NOT do, lol.
You certainly went above and beyond as a seller. The initial refund of the shipping was generous enough. Your pictures were clear and description mentioned problems. I certainly wouldn't have gave the extra $10 but then you would have probably been dinged on feedback. Situations like this are exactly why I won't sell coins on Ebay. I've powersold other items in the past but nothing that would be as much a pita as coins. @davewesen looks like the lot sold for $47.00
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
This is why I don't like to sell any longer on ebay. I think you bent over backwards to make it right! He should have went with a full return as the $10 giveback will be soon forgotten and all that will be left with his/her dimes and slighted feelings.
Unfortunately, buyers rule on ebay and they know that so stories like these are bound to happen more frequently going forward. I've greatly reduced selling on ebay for that very reason. I'd rather sell for less off ebay and deal with someone who's not going to try and take advantage of me after the fact.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Based on the op & buyer comments, I think both parties were REASONABLE.
Mercury dimes can be a major issue with misunderstandings on ebay, I've had a few of mine own with buyers. Some may look "cleaned" or not all there when they are and would straight grade but are not worth the fee. Those low value items were on consignment?
I know a major in state ebay seller that has at least three other employees to do raw coin analysis and photos but makes a lot of potential serious mistakes, there is no excuse for that. They deserve the problem feedback they get, and don't get problem feedback on items they should. It is always easy to blame the buyer, but once the contract is made and there is misrepresentation of any type, it is really the seller's fault what follows. Sellers should thank the buyers for keeping them honest, not block them. I recently bought some raw coins on ebay and the images look much better than the reality. Generally on cases like that if the mistake was unintentional just sending the items back for a refund without leaving any feedback would be the right thing to do.
You (seller) did everything right after the initial error.
Buyer is a typical eBay PIA.
I am a buyer and not a big seller. I have only sold 1 coin on ebay. But I have bought a LOT. In this case I think the buyer is wrong. It is clear by the pics what the coins were. But that's me.
My 1st thought exactly! I always list group lots in order by date and MM!
I have not sold coins on eBay lately, but I may within the next few months so please let me know the buyer's ID so I can block him. TIA
Unfortunately, there are many more just like him, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
In theory, that's a good idea. On the other hand, I may write up and photograph the coins days apart, and good chance they're being done with another 100 lots. When done multiple times and relative to single coins, laying out multiple coins is time consuming. Having to cross-check each coin against a list I don't currently have available to get it in the right place would be a royal PITA. For many lots I've started to not list dates at all.
Oh, I know. I have a nice blocked bidder list accumulated over 12 years.
Title: MERCURY DIME 6-COIN LOT: 1927-S, 1920-S, 1931-S, 1929-D, 1919-S, 1942
or 6 different Mercury dimes, all mints 1919-S through 1942 various conditions
Truly, I would be happy for you if the buyer simply kept the shipping refund as well as the $10 refund and then disappeared into the sunset with no feedback or star ratings given. That is not to say either party was perfect here, given that you made the initial listing error and then the buyer appeared to have misinterpreted fairly clear (in my opinion) images. However, this is such a small issue that making it go away for good is better than squabbling for a few dollars either way.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I've said it before: Every time you think you've met them all, you always meet one more.
Pete
That's sort of what happened. But let's call it a forced disappearance.
I believe you handled the entire issue very well... the buyer was - IMO - pushing for 'more'...once he received a concession, he felt he could squeeze more out of you. Great decision to block him, if not, you would have undoubtedly experienced further issues. Cheers, RickO
Was the consigner of the coins all right with the deal you struck with this buyer?
Jeremy, I did not read this entire thread, however, I did read your first post. My first thought is that the buyer took advantage of you, because you included a letter that says you want 5 stars. I feel he grasped pretty far to find something to complain about and you gave ten bucks to go away. He may not even leave you five stars. You have no way of knowing. My suggestion is to not include that letter anymore.
The buyer was unreasonable, look at the picture. He got you on that one because he could always threaten the "negative" feedback. Even his response about how worn the mercs were.......the picture shows how worn some of them were! BLock this guy!
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
one can block anyone for as long as you wish. However blocking is the least effective way.
they simply open another account under another name in both Ebay and Paypal. They most likely already have several accounts. so what good is blocking?
**If ebay is not doing anything serious about bad guys (and girls) there will not be an effective solution.
**
Well yeah, if the buyer is a raging psychopath, they can find a way to harass you further. Most will probably just move on.
The 3 meat coins of the auction were the 19S, 27D and the 27S. One coin was not there, 27D, and one coin the buyer was not happy with. The buyer should have returned the whole lot without demands to the seller and moved on.
Ken
There are a fair number of collectors and consumers of everything that are like this, not just on the bay. Retail business, part of the territory.
The buyer took advantage of you. With a coin lot they have the advantage of liking some and not others so the sale starts to become a multi sale that will cost you money when trying to make them happy. That's when they use the leverage. Experienced buyers know this and use it to their advantage.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Once a deal goes even a little sideways it’s usually best to just cancel it, get the coins back, refund the money and start over. Working on half solutions and partial refunds just creates drama. No time for drama, especially for this size of transaction.
Totally agree. Refund block and no thanks.
I sell biological samples.. no return policy as people can contaminate them or ruin chances of germination by mishandling (if opened outside of a clean room or flowhood).
One guy went so far as to send me a threatening letter to refund his money and let him keep it, while leaving me feedback that the fern/moss spores I sell are misidentified and poisonous. He even filed a SNAD saying the color was XYZ and the item description said "fern and moss spore colors may vary XYZ based on sample collection and genetics".
I should've just refunded his money and let him keep the thing. Business didn't pick up for 3 weeks after his feedback, which ebay took 2 weeks in taking down, despite a photo of the letter he sent trying to extort me. I'm only just now starting to get back to business. Went from hitting the post office sometimes twice a day to one item once a week and a dead week and I think 2 weeks of 1 item.
Yesterday I had an order from mobile express guest.. guess who.. Canceled immediately. I keep a sh*tlist with my labels so if I ever see that address again they're not getting a thing.
The world revolves around these people and their scams and how they think the world works of them deserving free stuff at everyone else's expense. Sociopaths or worse.
Experienced buyers? No, these are a**hole buyers conducting bad business. Experienced buyers conduct good business.
Lots of buyers out there who have learned they can try and pressure you into a partial refund post-purchase. For that reason I make it clear that the only remedy I offer if you are unsatisfied is an immediate, no-questions-asked refund minus original shipping. I also make it clear that the entire set must be returned and not a partial set.
Here is where it started leaning south.
"Hi Jeremy, thanks for the heads up. That is a big difference (27D vs 29D). I like the condition of most of the coins so I will go ahead and purchase. Perhaps you'd consider reimbursing shipping cost due to the mixup. Thanks,"
We would have said, "if you are unhappy in anyway, at any time, you can return any four of the coins and keep anyone you want for free and we will provide not only a full refund, BUT will pay for the return shipping as well. After all, it was our mistake and we want to show you we care about keeping our customers happy."
Yea I agree with you. By experienced I mean they know how to work the system and seller to squeeze them for all its worth.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I've also sold coins week to week and have had sellers hold payment because they want to bid on next weeks coins, even though I was giving them free shipping. So then you're stuck holding coins that aren't paid for and can't ship or offer to someone else.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I like folks who do this! Saves on shipping and 30 cents for each additional item from paypal!
I can see it if they are pricey coins.
I request payment via PayPal in 3 days and then eBay steps in if not paid by then. No problems.
I don’t do lots and focus on slabbed items $50 and over. Raw coins can be a mixed bag.
I have bought lots and did well - auction winning super deal well below bid or MV. I bid real cheap on these....and don’t win that often.
Did this w slabbed Roos dime 4 pc lot - listed them singly - sold all 2x to 4x Cost.
You handled it with graciousness and like a real professional.